[nzlug] samba: puzzled user...

[Robin Sheat]

On Sunday 09 March 2008 18:13:47 Simon Bridge wrote:
> Do we really expect a user to enter the CLI to access, say, workplace
> provided shares? I see that there are gui-based tools... surely a user
> expects to enter "network neighborhood" (or Places > Network) and just
> see the available services? Perhaps Places > Connect to Server to
> "activate" a service?
From what I understand (and use): Places -> Network -> Windows Network, pick 
the workgroup and the computer. Or, from a file manager window, enter the 
location (e.g. smb://computername)

This doesn't mount it on the filesystem, but gives access to Gnome 
VFS-supporting applications, which is what I need 99% of the time.

> However - From the main menu I can get a dialog to join a network
> server, which appears about right. However, it requires I know the
> workgroup *and* the server name in advance.
AIUI, the workgroup in windows (at least, simple windows networks) is simply 
to group machines when browsing - it's still a flat namespace.

> This is curious as no such thing is needed when I just share a
> directory.
Samba as installed has a workgroup defined. System->Administration->Shared 
Folders->General Properties tab will let you change it.

> Consider: In Ubuntu I can rt-click on the ~/Public folder and select
> "Share this folder" - enter the desired workgroup, and that's it. I can
You enter the desired share name, which is completely different.

> Once set up, the share seems to show up in XP's network neighborhood and
> in Places > Network... but not all for all connected linux machines.
Because windows networking is a bit rubbish, and sometimes machines just 
refuse to show up. Usually you can access them directly by typing the name. 
You'll see a lot of stories, with just plain windows networks, where machine 
A can see B and C, B can only see A, and C can only see B, and similar stupid 
things.

> So - does this mean that, to "join a workgroup" a user is expected to go
> to Places > Network Servers and enter the IP of every samba server on
> the network?
No. You don't really 'join' a workgroup. For all intents and purposes, the 
workgroup is just a convenient name for grouping machines (browse masters are 
selected within workgroups, but that's about all they do that I know of),

> Which then leads to wondering what happens where a network has several
> different workgroups, or a laptop moving between networks.
It'll keep its workgroup name as it moves. Even if it ends up being the only 
machine in that workgroup.

> I'm not sure how to clarify... how does the client know what to ask for?
> Well: presumably the user tells it. Like - "request all shares in
> workgroup 'fubar'" or instructions to that effect.
No, request all shares on machine 'bazz'.

> The effect is - If I set up 5 computers to export the ~/Public folder,
> then, in any of those five machines I can see five shares in places >
> network. No further setup, provided all the shares have the same
> workgroup. Nothing in fstab, no mount command, no launcher defined.
That's correct. Samba (and Windows) chatter on the network to each other to 
get lists of what machines are available.

> So - what if I want to share a directory to every computer that comes
> along... so when the server gets any request for a share in any
> workgroup, a particular share gets sent irregardless of whether the
> requested workgroup exists.
Well, you'd be asking a machine for the share, workgroup independent.

> > > Is it possible to scan a network for workgroups?
> > Yes, though possibly not through the GUI.
Places->Network->Windows Network will list them for you. A workgroup exists if 
there's a machine in it.

> Probably indigo prime needs to restart samba server.
When it gets sticky like that, you can just /etc/init.d/samba restart. It'll 
often help, but it's rarely needed.

> If I alter one of the machines so that system > shared folders > general
> has a different workgroup, reboot, then that machine no longer appears
> in the others' smb:///
Sometimes it can take a while for the new workgroup information to propagate. 
Sometimes it doesn't show up at all because windows networking is a bit 
rubbish.

What we really need is a Linux/UNIX-oriented file sharing system that can be 
easily mounted, whether by the kernel or by e.g. Gnome-VFS, and advertises by 
avahi, which has always seemed a whole lot more reliable to me. And it'll 
mean it'll handle file names and permissions that windows chokes on. (Can't 
have a ':' in a filename? Madness!)

-- 
Robin <robin at kallisti.net.nz> JabberID: <eythian at jabber.kallisti.net.nz>

Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt. Qui annus est?

PGP Key 0xA99CEB6D = 5957 6D23 8B16 EFAB FEF8  7175 14D3 6485 A99C EB6D
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