[nzlug] 'MS Tax' versus Commerce Commission

[Mathew Carley]

Michael Field wrote:
> Hit send too soon by accident - starting again from the top...
>
> I must be getting too old, and jaded. I can perfectly see how the
> Commerce Commission can't act without proof of underhanded arm twisting.
>
> 1. Manufacture designs builds machine to run an operating system. They
> design it to whatever is the standard of the day.
>   
Perhaps. But also this practice is why there was so much fudgy hardware 
back in the 90s.
> 2. They test it to run properly with all the drivers, and bundle up the
> 'great' recovery disk feature.
>   
Only on computers sold with an OS. The "recovery disk" usually wipes the 
disk and starts over anyway.
> 3. They sell the system to customers, including the operating system it
> is designed for, rather than supplying an 'blank' system and CDs for the
> customer to install from.
>
> That makes perfect logic to me.
>   
Yes, but why not OS less or even with Ubuntu Linux (in the case of Dell) 
just because you're in New Zealand? I guess they haven't yet got the 
Dell/Ubuntu disk images on the machine that does all the ghosting, yet...
> 4. Before purchase somebody asks if they really have to include the
> operating system, they are bound to answer 'yes' for the following
> reasons:
> - The machine is shipped into the country pre-installed.
>   
Not with Dell. It's supposed to be made to order.
> - It has all the drivers required
>   
Ship the driver CDs (or maybe a list of components and brands, model 
numbers would be helpful) - since they would have to know that already.
> - It has all the 'value adds' that differentiate the product
>   
Crapware. Otherwise, hardware is hardware.
> - They have engineered their support process to work with that system
> configuration. 
>   
Perhaps. But who wants to ring India when you can simply email NZLUG?
> - The license is "purchased" from Microsoft when the image is placed on
> the original disk, not when the consumer buys it.
>   
Not quite true/grey area. They don't have to include the image on the 
disk. Same process as occurs with Dell in the US, I guess... have 4 
piles of disks: Blank, Ubuntu, Windows XP, Windows Vista.
> So if somebody says "I don't want that bit" it is not an easy bit for
> the retailer reseller to remove (i.e it requires opening the product and
> actually doing something), they cannot provide support for the
> non-factory OS, and can't be sure that the user is not cheating them.
>
> - They could ring up afterwards and request a recovery image CD - free
> Windows OS!
>   
Computer Model number would specify Ubuntu/Windows etc *or* invoice, or 
whatever relevant identifying information is handed over at time of 
purchase.
> - They could "drop" the drive and take it in for a repair, getting the
> OS replaced.
>   
Ever seen that sticker that reads "Replace with XXX spare part 
#12345-67". Different spare part = different disk image?
> - They could bug the sipport line for hours trying to get the internal
> web cam to work with Video for Linux
>   
Or email NZLUG.
> - They might have a crappy time with it, and then bad-mouth the brand as
> being a piece of junk.
>   
...I don't blame HP for Windows. I blame HP when the keyboard breaks, 
the monitor ceases to work or whatever.
> If I was in the retailer's situation, I too would say "Well, it comes
> with this. Too bad". It really isn't worth their time for the small
> numbers sold.
>
> When was the last time you tried to buy:
>  - A PC without a power lead? (aka The Cable Tax)
>   
True, but power leads generally come with the power supply unit, also 
handy when you buy a new box and in a new country. My Taiwanese friends 
were able to get rid of a giant brick under their desk.....
>  - A bicycle without any handlebars?  (aka The Euston Tube Tax)
>   
Doesn't function without handlebars (very well).
>  - A car without any wheels? (aka the crappy alloy tax)
>   
Doesn't go anywhere without 'em.
>  - A MP3 player without ear-buds? (aka The ear-bud Tax)
>   
Not everyone has ear-buds. Negligible cost, anyway - not 10% or more of 
the price (in some cases).
> In each case there are valid reasons why you might want to (just as
> valid as running a different OS), but you don't really expect that the
> seller will let you do so and take $ of the price.
>
> Why should it be any different for PCs and laptops?
>
> If you want a commodity computer without software, it then becomes a
> custom computer - you should be buying it from a local retailer who
> listens to you needs and acts accordingly, maybe charging a little more.
>   
I agree on this point too.
> Blank 'OEM' laptops available out there, it's just that few people
> imports them as the mass market ones are cheaper and less fuss to sell
> and support.
>   
True. But if one is *requesting* no Operating System, there is probably 
a reason for it! Joe six-pack isn't going to buy a computer sans OS 
anytime soon, because *he* wouldn't know what to do with it. I (or any 
of you) would know what to do.

Mathew