[hblug] The docx problem

[Tony Hughes]

How is bundling IE (A free product) with Windows, any different from  
bundling Firefox with Ubuntu?
IE vs. Netscape is an old argument, which has no bearing on IE7 vs.  
FF2 or any other browser combination.

Personally I think its a godsend now that any OS you care to run has a  
browser bundled. Makes it *easier* to get Firefox on a machine if I  
can simply download it onto a clean install via the interwebtubes,  
than having to get it onto a flash drive or CD-R.

Equally, its great that Ubuntu or whatever else has FF or other  
browsers installed, but I am sure Opera thinks thats a big issue for  
them as well.

I don't know why you drag Telecom into it - they are offering their  
services on a level playing field right now. Opening it up as fast as  
they can within reason (ie. not allowing full access for everyone to  
everything at one time, as things would just collapse and degenerate)  
- they were set targets for opening up exchanges, and have massively  
exceeded that target, several ISPs publicly saying they are extremely  
happy with the extra rate at which Telecom is ramping things up for  
them. They are certainly not locking anybody out of anything at the  
moment.

They are assisting Orcon with the movement of all their wireless  
broadband customers away from Telecom and into Orcon. Orcon would be  
quick to speak up if that was going badly.

*Some* HBLUG members may have similar opinions to the European  
Commission, but I will go on a limb right now and say that I am glad  
New Zealand is not ruled over and subject to the whims of such an  
organisation. Check out this excerpt from Wikipedia (of course take  
anything on Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but I am aware of these  
feelings amongst various groups in member countries anyway).

It is argued by some that the method of appointment for the Commission  
increases the democratic deficit in the European Union.[59][60] While  
the Commission is the executive branch, the candidates are chosen  
primarily by the 27 national governments, meaning it is hard for the  
Commission to be thrown out directly by the voters. The legitimacy of  
the Commission is mainly drawn from the vote of approval that is  
required from the Parliament along with Parliament's power to sack the  
body, however there has been less than 50% turnout in the Parliament's  
elections since 1999.

So, just because less than 50% of a disputed organisation think MS is  
anti-competitive, doesn't necessarily make it so.

(P.S. for everyones benefit, I will just state I am no longer in the  
employ of Gen-i, as of Feb '08)

Cheers,
Tony

On 16/04/2008, at 4:31 PM, Perry Spiller wrote:

> There is another perspective, too.
>
> Earlier, it was suggested that certain criticisms of MS
> are unjustified, on the basis that it's just 'business.'
>
> I demur.
>
> For MS (like Telecon NZ) it's not just doing business
> on the fabled level playing field." I.e. it's not anything
> like offering products and services in an open-to-all
> business environment, where all compete on a more
> or less equal footing. No.
>
> It's all about structuring and engineering things in any
> way that locks out competitors from competing on the
> basis of service, price and features. Would the act of
> incorporating IE in the OS, (rather than an add-on, like
> Word or Office), be an example?
>
> It's called anti-competitive behaviour, in the same way
> the Telecon NZ fought competition in the law courts,
> rather than in the marketplace. That MS got whacked
> with a hefty fine by the European Commission (play
> lunch money, really, to MS) does seem to show that
> the HBLUG list members' criticisms of MS have some
> allies with a common perspective on such things.
>
> Perry
>
> ----------------Earlier, you commented--------------------
>> I guess some of the key things that come through this thread are  
>> the following:
>>
>> - Love it or hate it, MS has the biggest slice of the office suite  
>> pie.
>> - Vista with trial versions of Office/Word is a reality
>> - Most C level execs or managers with their new laptops supplied by  
>> the corner computer store don't understand that if they make a  
>> document in Word 07 that Word 03 users wont be able to read it.
>> - This incompatibility between versions floats to the top quickly  
>> in an office environment with different OEM copies installed, but  
>> in a single user environment sometimes only comes when the send  
>> files externally.
>> - There is a compatibility toolkit from MS for this, you can find  
>> it here:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/nz/office/preview/beta/converter.mspx
>> - It would be nice when this happens (as has happened before with  
>> MS Office), that the version that makes the departure saves by  
>> default using format n-1 (i.e. .doc) while making version n  
>> available for selection (.docx)  Then in the next release, with the  
>> new format being more widely adopted, perhaps then make it the  
>> default.
>>
>> >From a personal perspective, our business has been running on  
>> staroffice and openoffice for the last 8 years, so it can be done.   
>> Some core MS functionality is missing from OOo that would be nice  
>> (text to columns in OOo Calc anyone?), and some MS Word formatting  
>> that doesn't always work out tight, but overall, a very  
>> accomplished package.
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