From Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ Tue Jun 2 12:13:48 2009 From: Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ (Garry) Date: Tue Jun 2 12:13:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] loading linux Message-ID: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F16AE@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> I need some help in loading Linux on 7 computers. I have become unwilling owner of 7 computers with no OS. I intend to load SUSUE and sell on Trade Me. I would like to be able to pay someone to set up these computers and wonder if there is someone you could reccomend Garry From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 12:22:48 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 2 12:22:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] loading linux In-Reply-To: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F16AE@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> References: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F16AE@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Garry wrote: > I need some help in loading Linux on 7 computers. I have become > unwilling owner of 7 computers with no OS. I intend to load SUSUE and > sell on Trade Me. I would like to be able to pay someone to set up these > computers and wonder if there is someone you could reccomend > > > > Garry > Hi Garry - does it have to be openSUSE? Potentially I could probably do this for you (although I'd be happier doing Debian as my cache has most of the needed Debian packages - making install fairly quick). A couple of things to consider when doing this sort of thing - do they support network booting? are the machines essentially the same? Are there any hardware faults to look into (failing fans are a common one)? are they small form-factor (normally requiring smaller power supplies if this is something that may fail) or a standard sized machine? Regards, Nevyn. From Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ Tue Jun 2 12:46:45 2009 From: Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ (Garry) Date: Tue Jun 2 12:47:13 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] loading linux Message-ID: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F16B4@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> Hi Nevyn, No it doesnt need to be openSUSE. That was something I had. They are just plain desk top machines that will be used at home by families. See this link below http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=219718059 kind regards Garry -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Nevyn Sent: Tuesday, 2 June 2009 12:23 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] loading linux On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Garry wrote: > I need some help in loading Linux on 7 computers. I have become > unwilling owner of 7 computers with no OS. I intend to load SUSUE and > sell on Trade Me. I would like to be able to pay someone to set up > these computers and wonder if there is someone you could reccomend > > > > Garry > Hi Garry - does it have to be openSUSE? Potentially I could probably do this for you (although I'd be happier doing Debian as my cache has most of the needed Debian packages - making install fairly quick). A couple of things to consider when doing this sort of thing - do they support network booting? are the machines essentially the same? Are there any hardware faults to look into (failing fans are a common one)? are they small form-factor (normally requiring smaller power supplies if this is something that may fail) or a standard sized machine? Regards, Nevyn. _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From thetoolman at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 14:02:22 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Tue Jun 2 14:02:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] loading linux In-Reply-To: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F16B4@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> References: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F16B4@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> Message-ID: Suse install should be pretty easy, have you tried it yourself? Just reboot with the disc in the drive and follow the gui instructions. 2009/6/2 Garry > Hi Nevyn, > > No it doesnt need to be openSUSE. That was something I had. They are > just plain desk top machines that will be used at home by families. See > this link below > > > http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=219718059 > kind regards > > Garry > > -----Original Message----- > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > On Behalf Of Nevyn > Sent: Tuesday, 2 June 2009 12:23 p.m. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] loading linux > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Garry wrote: > > > I need some help in loading Linux on 7 computers. I have become > > unwilling owner of 7 computers with no OS. I intend to load SUSUE and > > sell on Trade Me. I would like to be able to pay someone to set up > > these computers and wonder if there is someone you could reccomend > > > > > > > > Garry > > > > Hi Garry - does it have to be openSUSE? > > Potentially I could probably do this for you (although I'd be happier > doing Debian as my cache has most of the needed Debian packages - making > install fairly quick). > > A couple of things to consider when doing this sort of thing - do they > support network booting? are the machines essentially the same? Are > there any hardware faults to look into (failing fans are a common one)? > are they small form-factor (normally requiring smaller power supplies if > this is something that may fail) or a standard sized machine? > > Regards, > Nevyn. > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 14:43:50 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Jun 2 14:43:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] loading linux In-Reply-To: References: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F16B4@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906011943s3fc79feci5492357a9a60f51b@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/2 Tim Toolman : > Suse install should be pretty easy, have you tried it yourself? ?Just reboot > with the disc in the drive and follow the gui instructions. i'll second tim on this: it is very easy installing modern linux distros, and most will include openoffice, firefox, an e-mail client, etc. by default if you're lacking confidence though, or struggling on anything, and really want someone to help; i'd be more than willing From Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ Tue Jun 2 14:49:34 2009 From: Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ (Garry) Date: Tue Jun 2 14:50:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] loading linux Message-ID: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F1704@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> thanks kind regards Garry Snedden Sneddens Airocean Services Ltd 14A Rennie Drive P O Box 107-057 Airport Oaks Auckland New Zealand 64 9 2569598 64 9 2569597 www.sneddens.co.nz -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Tuesday, 2 June 2009 2:44 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] loading linux 2009/6/2 Tim Toolman : > Suse install should be pretty easy, have you tried it yourself? ?Just > reboot with the disc in the drive and follow the gui instructions. i'll second tim on this: it is very easy installing modern linux distros, and most will include openoffice, firefox, an e-mail client, etc. by default if you're lacking confidence though, or struggling on anything, and really want someone to help; i'd be more than willing _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 3 12:23:37 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Jun 3 12:23:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: loading linux Message-ID: <209916.25781.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Is there any particular reason you'd prefer SuSE over any other distro? Though SuSE is one of the "big boys", support may be a bit touch & go, though they too have commercial support options available. My personal bias is the *ubuntu's as it has so many flavors, very forgiving, and the community is VERY diverse & well supported. If you like the look & feel of SuSE (it is really pretty), why not consider Linux Mint? ver.7 (32-bit) came out this week, looks VERY similar to SuSE, but is based on Ubuntu. TOTAL eye-candy. One of the coolest apps I've come across for multi-system deployments is apt-cacher-ng, allowing you to set up a local repository, & install a system very closely fitted to the hardware, via the mini.iso And, if you're feeling especially generous towards the n00bs, you can throw in a few "books" & references to get them started: * www.ubuntupocketguide.com * fullcirclemagazine.org (#25 out now) Hope this helps - J From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 15:13:25 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Jun 3 15:13:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: loading linux In-Reply-To: <209916.25781.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <209916.25781.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Is there any particular reason you'd prefer SuSE over any other distro? > Though SuSE is one of the "big boys", support may be a bit touch & go, though they too have commercial support options available. > > My personal bias is the *ubuntu's as it has so many flavors, very forgiving, and the community is VERY diverse & well supported. > If you like the look & feel of SuSE (it is really pretty), why not consider Linux Mint? ver.7 (32-bit) came out this week, looks VERY similar to SuSE, but is based on Ubuntu. TOTAL eye-candy. > > One of the coolest apps I've come across for multi-system deployments is apt-cacher-ng, allowing you to set up a local repository, & install a system very closely fitted to the hardware, via the mini.iso > > And, if you're feeling especially generous towards the n00bs, you can throw in a few "books" & references to get them started: > * www.ubuntupocketguide.com > * fullcirclemagazine.org (#25 out now) > > Hope this helps > > - J Oh no... here we go. Distro war anyone? I prefer Debian. He prefers Suse. Jaco prefers Ubuntu. Denise likes Slackware... Do we really need to go on? From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Wed Jun 3 17:29:51 2009 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Wed Jun 3 17:32:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: loading linux In-Reply-To: References: <209916.25781.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1244006991.6281.0.camel@studypad> > > Oh no... here we go. Distro war anyone? I prefer Debian. He prefers > Suse. Jaco prefers Ubuntu. Denise likes Slackware... Do we really need > to go on? > You didn't mention gNewSense! > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 21:07:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Jun 3 21:08:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: loading linux In-Reply-To: <1244006991.6281.0.camel@studypad> References: <209916.25781.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1244006991.6281.0.camel@studypad> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Daemonax wrote: > >> >> Oh no... here we go. Distro war anyone? I prefer Debian. He prefers >> Suse. Jaco prefers Ubuntu. Denise likes Slackware... Do we really need >> to go on? >> > You didn't mention gNewSense! Right you are... Stallman likes gNewSense, Ian likes CentOS but delves into Fedora, LFS was fun, PCLinuxOS appears to be popular on distrowatch but I've never heard anyone here say they use it, Puppys are cute? The point is - can we stop pushing our own prefered distros and get to job at hand - i.e. helping people rather than coming across as fanboys. Experience in any other distro is likely to have even better tools than apt-cacher-ng (what's with the influx of ng applications?!? Sort of like the influx of 2000 type products. Especailly liked it with Bic pens. They came in a pearl finish!). Novell especailly have been developing mass deployment tools (see their roll your own distro type web based tools) and given the OP said he wanted openSUSE (though he's flexible), lets help him with HIS choice... Regards, Nevyn. From steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 22:37:55 2009 From: steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com (Steve Taylor) Date: Wed Jun 3 22:38:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any linux user musicians out there? Message-ID: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> Hi all, I have recently tried to install Rosegarden, which is a cool sequencer and audio editing program. However, I have Gnome rather than KDE which made the process very difficult. Also, I'm using Fedora 8. I was wondering if there's anyone around that can assist with getting Rosegarden working? -- cheers, Steve From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 23:19:17 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Jun 3 23:19:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any linux user musicians out there? In-Reply-To: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> References: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906030419u403077ado686fdf98e23cf67e@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/3 Steve Taylor : > I have recently tried to install Rosegarden, which is a cool sequencer > and audio editing program. ?However, I have Gnome rather than KDE which > made the process very difficult. ?Also, I'm using Fedora 8. > > I was wondering if there's anyone around that can assist with getting > Rosegarden working? why does having gnome make it difficult? are you installing it from the fedora repo, or manually? if from the repo, surely it will drag in all the required kde libs, etc, won't it? i tried it in ubuntu, and it got everything needed, just fine and if manually, i assume there is a list of deps on the rosegarden website/in the install instructions? From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 01:12:00 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 4 01:12:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any linux user musicians out there? In-Reply-To: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> References: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> Message-ID: There's a great big howto here: http://www.legg.uklinux.net/rosegarden_sound_howto_fc7.html Hope it helps. Regards, Nevyn. On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Steve Taylor wrote: > Hi all, > > I have recently tried to install Rosegarden, which is a cool sequencer > and audio editing program. ?However, I have Gnome rather than KDE which > made the process very difficult. ?Also, I'm using Fedora 8. > > I was wondering if there's anyone around that can assist with getting > Rosegarden working? > > -- > > cheers, > ? ? Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 09:10:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 4 09:11:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting? Message-ID: This is horribly late but... I haven't heard any mention of a meeting this month. Do we want to organize one? Does anyone want to volunteer to speak or volunteer a subject they'd like to know a bit more about? Does someone have a venue we could use if we're able to find a speaker? Regards, Nevyn. From andrewonthenet at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 14:49:05 2009 From: andrewonthenet at gmail.com (andrew ///) Date: Fri Jun 5 14:49:13 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: loading linux In-Reply-To: References: <209916.25781.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1244006991.6281.0.camel@studypad> Message-ID: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=220499156 So now you have 6 -thats great, and with openSuse -lovely. How many days did you intend for the installation on all 7? (or 6 now) From Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ Fri Jun 5 15:41:09 2009 From: Garry at SNEDDENS.CO.NZ (Garry) Date: Fri Jun 5 15:43:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: loading linux Message-ID: <317C854C03BF7340B952C382487830100F181E@sa-server.sneddens.co.nz> I am all sorted out now thanks. Nevyn is helping kind regards Garry Snedden Sneddens Airocean Services Ltd 14A Rennie Drive P O Box 107-057 Airport Oaks Auckland New Zealand 64 9 2569598 64 9 2569597 www.sneddens.co.nz -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of andrew /// Sent: Friday, 5 June 2009 2:49 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Re: loading linux http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=220499156 So now you have 6 -thats great, and with openSuse -lovely. How many days did you intend for the installation on all 7? (or 6 now) _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 15:02:25 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sat Jun 6 15:03:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... Message-ID: Hi Guys, Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of cold ones and chew the fat. Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... Regards, Nevyn. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 15:19:14 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Sat Jun 6 15:19:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906052019o3ca87afbp5950237a4d135791@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/6 Nevyn : > Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would > people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was > the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk > about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel > - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of > cold ones and chew the fat. > > Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as > well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a > "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the > trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just > ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... yep, i'm up for that. the clare? galbraiths? From nevynh at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 15:42:44 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sat Jun 6 15:42:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906052019o3ca87afbp5950237a4d135791@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770906052019o3ca87afbp5950237a4d135791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > 2009/6/6 Nevyn : >> Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would >> people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was >> the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk >> about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel >> - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of >> cold ones and chew the fat. >> >> Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as >> well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a >> "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the >> trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just >> ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... > > yep, i'm up for that. > > the clare? galbraiths? Either or in my opinion - The Clare has the upstairs section which might even be empty but Galbraith's is a little more central. From gareth.fletcher at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 21:23:58 2009 From: gareth.fletcher at gmail.com (Gareth Fletcher) Date: Sat Jun 6 21:24:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770906052019o3ca87afbp5950237a4d135791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6152DC86-E05B-444A-9FA4-9B78ACA4BA0E@gmail.com> London bar might be cool too, it has the geek factor of being where the 2600 used to meet. On 6/06/2009, at 3:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Robin > Paulson wrote: >> 2009/6/6 Nevyn : >>> Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would >>> people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was >>> the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk >>> about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the >>> kernel >>> - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of >>> cold ones and chew the fat. >>> >>> Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as >>> well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it >>> as a >>> "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the >>> trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which >>> just >>> ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... >> >> yep, i'm up for that. >> >> the clare? galbraiths? > > Either or in my opinion - The Clare has the upstairs section which > might even be empty but Galbraith's is a little more central. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 18:07:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Jun 7 18:08:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... In-Reply-To: <6152DC86-E05B-444A-9FA4-9B78ACA4BA0E@gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770906052019o3ca87afbp5950237a4d135791@mail.gmail.com> <6152DC86-E05B-444A-9FA4-9B78ACA4BA0E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Lousy parking options though... I'm thinking decision time - Where: Galbraith's, When: 7pm, Monday 8th of June. Topic: Anything you're excited about. Look for the guys with beards ;) (I've been growing mine) On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Gareth Fletcher wrote: > London bar might be cool too, it has the geek factor of being where the 2600 > used to meet. > > On 6/06/2009, at 3:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: > >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Robin Paulson >> wrote: >>> >>> 2009/6/6 Nevyn : >>>> >>>> Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would >>>> people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was >>>> the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk >>>> about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel >>>> - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of >>>> cold ones and chew the fat. >>>> >>>> Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as >>>> well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a >>>> "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the >>>> trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just >>>> ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... >>> >>> yep, i'm up for that. >>> >>> the clare? galbraiths? >> >> Either or in my opinion - The Clare has the upstairs section which >> might even be empty but Galbraith's is a little more central. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 18:08:34 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Jun 7 18:08:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770906052019o3ca87afbp5950237a4d135791@mail.gmail.com> <6152DC86-E05B-444A-9FA4-9B78ACA4BA0E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Crap... I meant to send this last night. :/ On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Nevyn wrote: > Lousy parking options though... > > I'm thinking decision time - > Where: Galbraith's, > When: 7pm, Monday 8th of June. > Topic: Anything you're excited about. > > Look for the guys with beards ;) (I've been growing mine) > > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Gareth > Fletcher wrote: >> London bar might be cool too, it has the geek factor of being where the 2600 >> used to meet. >> >> On 6/06/2009, at 3:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Robin Paulson >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> 2009/6/6 Nevyn : >>>>> >>>>> Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would >>>>> people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was >>>>> the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk >>>>> about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel >>>>> - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of >>>>> cold ones and chew the fat. >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as >>>>> well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a >>>>> "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the >>>>> trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just >>>>> ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... >>>> >>>> yep, i'm up for that. >>>> >>>> the clare? galbraiths? >>> >>> Either or in my opinion - The Clare has the upstairs section which >>> might even be empty but Galbraith's is a little more central. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> AuckLUG mailing list >>> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >>> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > From max_headroom88 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 07:02:06 2009 From: max_headroom88 at yahoo.com (Max Headroom) Date: Mon Jun 8 07:02:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 4 Message-ID: <831434.10201.qm@web110306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The Beer's Dear @ Galbraiths...Where's the Clare? :) --- On Sun, 7/6/09, aucklug-request@linux.net.nz wrote: From: aucklug-request@linux.net.nz Subject: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 4 To: aucklug@linux.net.nz Received: Sunday, 7 June, 2009, 12:01 PM Send AuckLUG mailing list submissions to ??? aucklug@linux.net.nz To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? aucklug-request@linux.net.nz You can reach the person managing the list at ??? aucklug-owner@linux.net.nz When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of AuckLUG digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Meeting.... (Nevyn) ???2. Re: Meeting.... (Robin Paulson) ???3. Re: Meeting.... (Nevyn) ???4. Re: Meeting.... (Gareth Fletcher) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:02:25 +1200 From: Nevyn Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Message-ID: ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Guys, Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of cold ones and chew the fat. Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... Regards, Nevyn. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:19:14 +1200 From: Robin Paulson Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Message-ID: ??? <2f3aa2770906052019o3ca87afbp5950237a4d135791@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2009/6/6 Nevyn : > Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would > people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was > the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk > about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel > - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of > cold ones and chew the fat. > > Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as > well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a > "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the > trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just > ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... yep, i'm up for that. the clare? galbraiths? ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:42:44 +1200 From: Nevyn Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Message-ID: ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > 2009/6/6 Nevyn : >> Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would >> people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was >> the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk >> about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the kernel >> - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of >> cold ones and chew the fat. >> >> Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as >> well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it as a >> "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the >> trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which just >> ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... > > yep, i'm up for that. > > the clare? galbraiths? Either or in my opinion - The Clare has the upstairs section which might even be empty but Galbraith's is a little more central. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:23:58 +1200 From: Gareth Fletcher Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting.... To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Cc: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Message-ID: <6152DC86-E05B-444A-9FA4-9B78ACA4BA0E@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset=us-ascii;??? format=flowed;??? delsp=yes London bar might be cool too, it has the geek factor of being where? the 2600 used to meet. On 6/06/2009, at 3:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Robin? > Paulson wrote: >> 2009/6/6 Nevyn : >>> Given that there's been absolutely no word on a meeting, how would >>> people feel about just a general meet and greet at a pub - which was >>> the suggestion from the one bit of feedback I had back offline. Talk >>> about whatever has us excited at the moment (for me that's the? >>> kernel >>> - fastboot, kernel mode graphics and filesystems). Have a couple of >>> cold ones and chew the fat. >>> >>> Thoughts? Opinions? Likely turn out? We'll put a deadline on this as >>> well. If nothing's decided by 10am Sunday morning, we'll flag it? >>> as a >>> "not going to happen" sort of thing so that we don't fall into the >>> trap of trying to organise something absolutely last minute which? >>> just >>> ends up confusing people and resulting in low attendance... >> >> yep, i'm up for that. >> >> the clare? galbraiths? > > Either or in my opinion - The Clare has the upstairs section which > might even be empty but Galbraith's is a little more central. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug End of AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 4 ************************************** From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 07:41:28 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 8 07:41:35 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <831434.10201.qm@web110306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <831434.10201.qm@web110306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Max Headroom wrote: > The Beer's Dear @ Galbraiths...Where's the Clare? > :) That's cute. Too late to make changes now. The Clare's on Dominion Road just in front of the Food Town. From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 09:52:13 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 8 09:52:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting Details for tonight Message-ID: Hi Guys, A request just came through for a map for the meeting tonight. So here it is: When: Tonight (8 June, 2009) Where: Galbraiths Alehosue, 2 Mt Eden Road. http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=&vps=3&jsv=160h&sll=-36.887015,174.759902&sspn=0.081143,0.181961&g=Mt+Eden+Rd,+Auckland&ie=UTF8&geocode=FaZ5zf0d-6RqCg&split=0 (Sorry about the long URL) Topic: Whatever ya like.... Hope to see you there. From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 09:56:01 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 8 09:56:08 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Meeting Details for tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Nevyn wrote: > Hi Guys, > > A request just came through for a map for the meeting tonight. So here it is: > > When: Tonight (8 June, 2009) > Where: Galbraiths Alehosue, 2 Mt Eden Road. > http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=&vps=3&jsv=160h&sll=-36.887015,174.759902&sspn=0.081143,0.181961&g=Mt+Eden+Rd,+Auckland&ie=UTF8&geocode=FaZ5zf0d-6RqCg&split=0 > (Sorry about the long URL) > Topic: Whatever ya like.... > > Hope to see you there. My apologies - that link above is the street view of the rather spectacular frontage (I still remember the excitement I felt as a kid going here back when it was a library. Was there anything better than a trip to a library?) The map view is here: http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=&vps=4&jsv=160h&sll=-36.865626,174.761211&sspn=0.010146,0.022745&g=2+Mt+Eden+Rd,+Auckland&ie=UTF8&geocode=FaZ5zf0d-6RqCg&split=0 From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 15:45:46 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 8 15:45:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any linux user musicians out there? In-Reply-To: References: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Nevyn wrote: > There's a great big howto here: > http://www.legg.uklinux.net/rosegarden_sound_howto_fc7.html > > Hope it helps. > > Regards, > Nevyn. Steve: any feedback? Did the howto work as hoped? From steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 15:59:43 2009 From: steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com (Steve Taylor) Date: Mon Jun 8 16:03:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any linux user musicians out there? In-Reply-To: References: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> Message-ID: Thanks for the follow up. Haven't tried again yet. Will have a look at this tonight. Would also like to figure out MP3 encoding, e.g. Audacity needs something called LAME which I couldn't get working. Rhythmbox plays MP3s tho, after I downloaded an encoder for it. Perhaps generating MP3 needs a different patent license than simply playing them. There was a plan for drinks at Galbraith's tonight? 2009/6/8 Nevyn > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Nevyn wrote: > > There's a great big howto here: > > http://www.legg.uklinux.net/rosegarden_sound_howto_fc7.html > > > > Hope it helps. > > > > Regards, > > Nevyn. > > Steve: any feedback? Did the howto work as hoped? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- cheers, Steve. From steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 16:05:29 2009 From: steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com (Steve Taylor) Date: Mon Jun 8 16:07:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any linux user musicians out there? In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906030419u403077ado686fdf98e23cf67e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1244025475.2854.4.camel@ptolemy.localdomain> <2f3aa2770906030419u403077ado686fdf98e23cf67e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In answer to Robin's question - Rosegarden depends on some KDE libraries, which I did not have installed at that point. I installed by downloading the source from http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/getting/. >From memory, there were lots of other dependencies missing - spent several hours hunting these down and getting them to install. 2009/6/3 Robin Paulson > 2009/6/3 Steve Taylor : > > I have recently tried to install Rosegarden, which is a cool sequencer > > and audio editing program. However, I have Gnome rather than KDE which > > made the process very difficult. Also, I'm using Fedora 8. > > > > I was wondering if there's anyone around that can assist with getting > > Rosegarden working? > > why does having gnome make it difficult? are you installing it from > the fedora repo, or manually? if from the repo, surely it will drag in > all the required kde libs, etc, won't it? > > i tried it in ubuntu, and it got everything needed, just fine > > and if manually, i assume there is a list of deps on the rosegarden > website/in the install instructions? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Mon Jun 8 16:12:39 2009 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Mon Jun 8 16:12:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting Details for tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My apologies to all for not organizing a meeting this month, as I've been out of town and then sick several times over the last two weeks. And a big thanks to Nevyn for filling in! -Martin > When: Tonight (8 June, 2009) > Where: Galbraiths Alehosue, 2 Mt Eden Road. http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=&vps=3&jsv=160h&sll=-36.887015,174.759902&sspn=0.081143,0.181961&g=Mt+Eden+Rd,+Auckland&ie=UTF8&geocode=FaZ5zf0d-6RqCg&split=0 > Topic: Whatever ya like.... From thetoolman at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 17:11:56 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Mon Jun 8 17:13:24 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting Details for tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll come along as a first timer @ AuckLUG. See you guys for a drink. I'll also bring along an interesing toy of mine: Linux based car stereo: http://riocar.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Geek_Guide&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=7&categories=Mk.+Two This runs Linux 2.2 kernel and has web, ssh and ftp services in addition to serial, USB and a 4 tone display. Maybe some of you guys might find it interesting, might have seen them before? Cheers, Tim Toolman 2009/6/8 Martin D Kealey > > My apologies to all for not organizing a meeting this month, as I've been > out of town and then sick several times over the last two weeks. > > And a big thanks to Nevyn for filling in! > > -Martin > > > When: Tonight (8 June, 2009) > > Where: Galbraiths Alehosue, 2 Mt Eden Road. > http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=&vps=3&jsv=160h&sll=-36.887015,174.759902&sspn=0.081143,0.181961&g=Mt+Eden+Rd,+Auckland&ie=UTF8&geocode=FaZ5zf0d-6RqCg&split=0 > > Topic: Whatever ya like.... > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 17:38:00 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 8 17:38:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting Details for tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Martin D Kealey wrote: > > My apologies to all for not organizing a meeting this month, as I've been > out of town and then sick several times over the last two weeks. > > And a big thanks to Nevyn for filling in! > > -Martin No worries Martin - it's about time I pulled my weight. I realy should've kicked in a little earlier. On the plus side, it's a great excuse for me to hold a pub based meeting (I loved the last one and hopefully tonight's will be just as good). From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 17:38:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 8 17:38:59 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting Details for tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:11 AM, Tim Toolman wrote: > I'll come along as a first timer @ AuckLUG. ?See you guys for a drink. ?I'll > also bring along an interesing toy of mine: Linux based car stereo: > > http://riocar.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Geek_Guide&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=7&categories=Mk.+Two > > This runs Linux 2.2 kernel and has web, ssh and ftp services in addition to > serial, USB and a 4 tone display. > > Maybe some of you guys might find it interesting, might have seen them > before? > > > Cheers, > > Tim Toolman Tha'd be fantastic. Definitely into toys... From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 18:13:47 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Jun 8 18:13:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting Details for tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906072313sf43a1e5td8481f0149af9a2a@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/8 Nevyn : > When: Tonight (8 June, 2009) > Where: Galbraiths Alehosue, 2 Mt Eden Road. > http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=&vps=3&jsv=160h&sll=-36.887015,174.759902&sspn=0.081143,0.181961&g=Mt+Eden+Rd,+Auckland&ie=UTF8&geocode=FaZ5zf0d-6RqCg&split=0 > (Sorry about the long URL) > Topic: Whatever ya like.... > > Hope to see you there. err, what time tonight, is the meeting on? From thetoolman at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 23:34:03 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Mon Jun 8 23:34:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting Details for tonight In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906072313sf43a1e5td8481f0149af9a2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770906072313sf43a1e5td8481f0149af9a2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey guys; Thanks for a warm welcome and interesting geek chat tonight. I thought I'd circulate a few links from topics we talked about. * Linux car stereo: http://riocar.org/ * Faux iMac w/ mini ITX: http://mechanicalmarksy.com/hosted/toolman/ * My chip-shop style xbox powered arcade cabinet: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8086033@N04/tags/mame/ * Orcon unbundled network: http://www.orcon.net.nz/home/page/about_orcon_plus and Orcon datacap upgrades, FYI: - Additional 5GB for $8/month - Additional 10GB for $12/month - Additional 25GB for $25/month - Additional 50GB for $50/month - Additional 100GB for $80/month - Additional 200GB for $160/month * 3D with no glasses - Parallax Barrier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_barrier Note that wikipedia cites a much narrower viewing angle then the 60 degrees mentioned over beer! * Android on virtualbox: http://eoghans.devsite.googlepages.com/androidinvirtualbox - This doesn't have network so not much to do on the OS, but works OK. * "research/academic" Windows tuner application: http://hvcplus.cjb.net/ - Toolman -- Tim Taylor From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jun 9 10:24:12 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Jun 9 10:24:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] beers & beards Message-ID: <437274.92824.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Thanks a bunch for a great evening, guys! Was a treat, as always, & it was good to see new & returning faces. Some additional info re some topics from last nigth: * Software Freedom Day is on 19 Sept: http://softwarefreedomday.org/ * RockBox, FOSS MP3-player firmware: http://www.rockbox.org/ * Moblin FOSS-OS for MID's, currently based on CentOS, but could possibly become an Ubuntu NBR interface: http://moblin.org/ * OpenSolaris, Sun's FOSS POSIX OS: http://opensolaris.org/ * Google Chrome for Linux: http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel * NZISIG, the local heavy-duty (white-hats?) security guru's (the group that brings us events like KiwiCon); not for the feint-hearted: http://www.isig.org.nz/ & http://kiwicon.org/ * 1 system with multiple in & outputs: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultiseatX * IPCop's history, "pedegree" & "family" of firewalls: http://www.fsckin.com/2007/09/04/this-is-the-fastest-review-ever-of-5-linux-firewall-distributions/ - SmoothWall - http://www.smoothwall.org/ - ShoreWall - http://www.shorewall.net - IPCop - http://www.ipcop.org/ - m0n0wall - http://m0n0.ch/wall/ - pfSense - http://www.pfsense.com/ & in the same vein: http://www.untangle.com/ Ideas floated for future discussions/meetings: * Vitrualization: KVM, VirtualBox (I'll have to closely re-examine this, following from points raised last night), Xen, VMWare * Embedded devices: ALIX & StrongARM (really cool radio/device., btw), dd-wrt, psSense, RockBox, etc. My knowledge in this area is a bit sparse Cheers - J From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 10:30:04 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 9 10:30:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] beers & beards In-Reply-To: <437274.92824.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <437274.92824.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Thanks a bunch for a great evening, guys! > Was a treat, as always, & it was good to see new & returning faces. > > Some additional info re some topics from last nigth: > * Software Freedom Day is on 19 Sept: http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > * RockBox, FOSS MP3-player firmware: http://www.rockbox.org/ > * Moblin FOSS-OS for MID's, currently based on CentOS, but could possibly become an Ubuntu NBR interface: http://moblin.org/ > * OpenSolaris, Sun's FOSS POSIX OS: http://opensolaris.org/ > * Google Chrome for Linux: http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel > * NZISIG, the local heavy-duty (white-hats?) security guru's (the group that brings us events like KiwiCon); not for the feint-hearted: http://www.isig.org.nz/ & http://kiwicon.org/ > * 1 system with multiple in & outputs: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultiseatX > * IPCop's history, "pedegree" & "family" of firewalls: > http://www.fsckin.com/2007/09/04/this-is-the-fastest-review-ever-of-5-linux-firewall-distributions/ > - SmoothWall - http://www.smoothwall.org/ > - ShoreWall - http://www.shorewall.net > - IPCop - http://www.ipcop.org/ > - m0n0wall - http://m0n0.ch/wall/ > - pfSense - http://www.pfsense.com/ > & in the same vein: http://www.untangle.com/ > > Ideas floated for future discussions/meetings: > * Vitrualization: KVM, VirtualBox (I'll have to closely re-examine this, following from points raised last night), Xen, VMWare > * Embedded devices: ALIX & StrongARM (really cool radio/device., btw), dd-wrt, psSense, RockBox, etc. My knowledge in this area is a bit sparse > > Cheers > > - J On the topic of discussions/meetings: A lot of people were talking about a Asterisk Part II talk. Can we get an idea of what sort of things people would like to go more in depth with? The intro sort of just gave us a really quick overview but from what I could tell, it was all very logical and easy to figure out from there... Also - I think about 10 people turned up... A solid 60-70% I think had beards :) My comment held true. From steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 11:24:15 2009 From: steve.taylor.nz at gmail.com (Steve Taylor) Date: Tue Jun 9 11:24:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] beers & beards In-Reply-To: References: <437274.92824.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm thinking it might be time for me to grow a beard too. Steve From thetoolman at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 11:28:40 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Tue Jun 9 11:29:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] beers & beards In-Reply-To: References: <437274.92824.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For anyone thinking about growing a beard: http://beards.org/grow.php "Growing a beard requires a commitment. The experience can even be a test of > character as well as a surprising process of self-discovery. Do you have > what it takes?" > 2009/6/9 Steve Taylor > I'm thinking it might be time for me to grow a beard too. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From tobias.gerschner at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 12:58:21 2009 From: tobias.gerschner at gmail.com (Tobias Gerschner) Date: Tue Jun 9 12:58:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <4a2da6ea.190bca0a.5963.ffffd1e9SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <4a2da6ea.190bca0a.5963.ffffd1e9SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'd definitely be interested in the KVM discussion as this is the only V option that I haven't used yet. OTOH I can contribute with 30 minute setup demos of VirtualBox and Xen setups if there's interest. regards -- Tobias Gerschner Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. 2009/6/9 > Send AuckLUG mailing list submissions to > aucklug@linux.net.nz > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > aucklug-request@linux.net.nz > > You can reach the person managing the list at > aucklug-owner@linux.net.nz > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AuckLUG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. beers & beards (Jaco van der Merwe) > 2. Re: beers & beards (Nevyn) > 3. Re: beers & beards (Steve Taylor) > 4. Re: beers & beards (Tim Toolman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:24:12 +0000 (GMT) > From: Jaco van der Merwe > Subject: [AuckLUG] beers & beards > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Message-ID: <437274.92824.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > Thanks a bunch for a great evening, guys! > Was a treat, as always, & it was good to see new & returning faces. > > Some additional info re some topics from last nigth: > * Software Freedom Day is on 19 Sept: http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > * RockBox, FOSS MP3-player firmware: http://www.rockbox.org/ > * Moblin FOSS-OS for MID's, currently based on CentOS, but could possibly > become an Ubuntu NBR interface: http://moblin.org/ > * OpenSolaris, Sun's FOSS POSIX OS: http://opensolaris.org/ > * Google Chrome for Linux: > http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel > * NZISIG, the local heavy-duty (white-hats?) security guru's (the group > that brings us events like KiwiCon); not for the feint-hearted: > http://www.isig.org.nz/ & http://kiwicon.org/ > * 1 system with multiple in & outputs: > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultiseatX > * IPCop's history, "pedegree" & "family" of firewalls: > > http://www.fsckin.com/2007/09/04/this-is-the-fastest-review-ever-of-5-linux-firewall-distributions/ > - SmoothWall - http://www.smoothwall.org/ > - ShoreWall - http://www.shorewall.net > - IPCop - http://www.ipcop.org/ > - m0n0wall - http://m0n0.ch/wall/ > - pfSense - http://www.pfsense.com/ > & in the same vein: http://www.untangle.com/ > > Ideas floated for future discussions/meetings: > * Vitrualization: KVM, VirtualBox (I'll have to closely re-examine this, > following from points raised last night), Xen, VMWare > * Embedded devices: ALIX & StrongARM (really cool radio/device., btw), > dd-wrt, psSense, RockBox, etc. My knowledge in this area is a bit sparse > > Cheers > > - J > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:30:04 +1200 > From: Nevyn > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] beers & beards > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Jaco van der > Merwe wrote: > > > > Thanks a bunch for a great evening, guys! > > Was a treat, as always, & it was good to see new & returning faces. > > > > Some additional info re some topics from last nigth: > > * Software Freedom Day is on 19 Sept: http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > > * RockBox, FOSS MP3-player firmware: http://www.rockbox.org/ > > * Moblin FOSS-OS for MID's, currently based on CentOS, but could possibly > become an Ubuntu NBR interface: http://moblin.org/ > > * OpenSolaris, Sun's FOSS POSIX OS: http://opensolaris.org/ > > * Google Chrome for Linux: > http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel > > * NZISIG, the local heavy-duty (white-hats?) security guru's (the group > that brings us events like KiwiCon); not for the feint-hearted: > http://www.isig.org.nz/ & http://kiwicon.org/ > > * 1 system with multiple in & outputs: > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultiseatX > > * IPCop's history, "pedegree" & "family" of firewalls: > > > http://www.fsckin.com/2007/09/04/this-is-the-fastest-review-ever-of-5-linux-firewall-distributions/ > > - SmoothWall - http://www.smoothwall.org/ > > - ShoreWall - http://www.shorewall.net > > - IPCop - http://www.ipcop.org/ > > - m0n0wall - http://m0n0.ch/wall/ > > - pfSense - http://www.pfsense.com/ > > & in the same vein: http://www.untangle.com/ > > > > Ideas floated for future discussions/meetings: > > * Vitrualization: KVM, VirtualBox (I'll have to closely re-examine this, > following from points raised last night), Xen, VMWare > > * Embedded devices: ALIX & StrongARM (really cool radio/device., btw), > dd-wrt, psSense, RockBox, etc. My knowledge in this area is a bit sparse > > > > Cheers > > > > - J > > On the topic of discussions/meetings: > A lot of people were talking about a Asterisk Part II talk. Can we get > an idea of what sort of things people would like to go more in depth > with? The intro sort of just gave us a really quick overview but from > what I could tell, it was all very logical and easy to figure out from > there... > > Also - I think about 10 people turned up... A solid 60-70% I think had > beards :) My comment held true. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:24:15 +1200 > From: Steve Taylor > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] beers & beards > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I'm thinking it might be time for me to grow a beard too. > > Steve > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:28:40 +1200 > From: Tim Toolman > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] beers & beards > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > For anyone thinking about growing a beard: http://beards.org/grow.php > > "Growing a beard requires a commitment. The experience can even be a test > of > > character as well as a surprising process of self-discovery. Do you have > > what it takes?" > > > > 2009/6/9 Steve Taylor > > > I'm thinking it might be time for me to grow a beard too. > > > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > > > -- > Tim Taylor > +64 21 0541287 > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > End of AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 > ************************************** > From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 13:07:06 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 9 13:07:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: <4a2da6ea.190bca0a.5963.ffffd1e9SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tobias Gerschner wrote: > Hi, > > I'd definitely be interested in the KVM discussion as this is the only V > option that I haven't used yet. > > OTOH I can contribute with 30 minute setup demos of ?VirtualBox and Xen > setups if there's interest. > > > regards > > -- > Tobias Gerschner > Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Hi Tobias, Definitely interested in Xen. Any chance you could crop your messages a bit? That was an awful lot of quoting for a little bit of reply... Regards, Nevyn. From ajchapman at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 17:11:10 2009 From: ajchapman at gmail.com (Anthony Chapman) Date: Tue Jun 9 17:11:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] beers & beards In-Reply-To: References: <437274.92824.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2faa0aee0906082211o1ab6f49aw5ae522f78c017c21@mail.gmail.com> I think there was more cider being drunk than beer, certainly the evening started that way. Perhaps this should have been titled "booze and beards". Thanks to all who were there. 2009/6/8 Tim Toolman : > For anyone thinking about growing a beard: http://beards.org/grow.php > > "Growing a beard requires a commitment. The experience can even be a test of >> character as well as a surprising process of self-discovery. Do you have >> what it takes?" >> > > 2009/6/9 Steve Taylor > >> I'm thinking it might be time for me to grow a beard too. >> >> Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > > -- > Tim Taylor > +64 21 0541287 > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 10 10:39:01 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Jun 10 10:39:11 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers Message-ID: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Forgot to make mention of a few other projects that where discussed: * SqueezeCenter, the predecessor to SlimServer, the software used on those really sexy cool home streaming devices that Logitech have out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SqueezeCenter It supports DLNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance), a uPnP standard for streaming media for domestic use. Is implemented in the PS3, PSP, XBox, Wii (I think), Amarok (newer versions, if I'm not mistaken), and the XBMC can act as a DLNA server * XMBC (http://xbmc.org/), XBox media center. Still still arguably one of the best media systems about. & it's GPL! Unfortunately, as far as consoles/devices go, it's only supported on the old XBoxes, not the 360. * Boxee (www.boxee.tv), a fork of the XBMC. * 3d-accelerated VNC: www.virtualgl.org Been trying to get a simple media center going in a VM, but as of yet I've not had much luck beyond the basics. Throughput & video corruption is an issue. Some options I've looked at: * XBMC & Boxee (see above) * Elisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisa_(software)) * MythTV (www.mythtv.org). Sorry, but I gave this a good shake, but was not too impressed. Torrents are in, TV tuners are so... 1990's. * Entertainer (http://wiki.entertainer-project.com) * LinuxMCE (http://linuxmce.org/) actually a home-automation distro with media capabilities * and, or course, the VLC web interface (favorite of a mate of mine): http://wiki.videolan.org/Control_VLC_via_a_browser If anyone has a good media center that they could recommend, I'd like to hear (others include GeeXboX, SesamTV, CenterStage, ). Needs simple, pretty interface for use with a IR remote (LIRC), & broad media format support & possibly online integration. MythTV/MythBuntu does much of this, but overall it's not the ideal solution I'm looking for. Doesn't HAVE to be GPL/FOSS, though that would be a strong preference. This guy did a quick breakdown: http://www.masternewmedia.org/media-centers-alternative-open-source-cross-platform-solutions-/ ... Re discussion on future meets: VoIP pt.2 sound like a plan, but I've yet to do any serious homework, as Chill'r suggested. But that is a really good topic, & I expect there's still quite a bit to discuss. Judging from the discussion threads, I would say that a VM prez is definitely on the horizon. * I've some experience with KVM & libvirt, but mostly from hard knocks. This is the official Ubuntu VM platform, and RedHad is moving to KVM from Xen/XenSource * VirtualBox is pretty popular, especially for folks only getting into VM to run their favorite win apps; mostly games. But there it runs on Mac too (so no need for Parallels or VMWare-Fusion) * Xen is not VM, in so much as it's paravirt. There is an important distinction between the 2: paravirt gives better performance, but requires customized kernel/OS. (see also ProxMox & OpenVZ) * VMWare. The granddaddy of them all! Deserves an honorary mention. Odds are, if you use VM at work or home, you'll likely be using this. * I care little for the ms proposition... k. enough for now. back to work -J From jj.walker at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 11:07:04 2009 From: jj.walker at gmail.com (Jamie Walker) Date: Wed Jun 10 11:07:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers In-Reply-To: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > * Xen is not VM, in so much as it's paravirt. There is an important distinction between the 2: paravirt gives better performance, but requires customized kernel/OS. (see also ProxMox & OpenVZ) Xen can do full virtualisation as well. -- Gmail/Gtalk/MSN: jj.walker@gmail.com (or shout loudly) From juanvr at live.com Wed Jun 10 11:51:08 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan .) Date: Wed Jun 10 11:51:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers In-Reply-To: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For the PS3 Owners: PS3 Media Server: http://ps3mediaserver.blogspot.com/ I've been running this for AGES now (albeit on my windoze box) and it's pretty flawless. Lossless transcoding for unsupported PS3 files, seamlessly integrated into XMB, etc. It's just a jar file really, so I assume it can be hosted on any platform and work the exact same way. > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:39:01 +0000 > From: freakalad@yahoo.co.uk > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers > > > Forgot to make mention of a few other projects that where discussed: > * SqueezeCenter, the predecessor to SlimServer, the software used on those really sexy cool home streaming devices that Logitech have out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SqueezeCenter > It supports DLNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance), a uPnP standard for streaming media for domestic use. Is implemented in the PS3, PSP, XBox, Wii (I think), Amarok (newer versions, if I'm not mistaken), and the XBMC can act as a DLNA server > * XMBC (http://xbmc.org/), XBox media center. Still still arguably one of the best media systems about. & it's GPL! Unfortunately, as far as consoles/devices go, it's only supported on the old XBoxes, not the 360. > * Boxee (www.boxee.tv), a fork of the XBMC. > * 3d-accelerated VNC: www.virtualgl.org > > Been trying to get a simple media center going in a VM, but as of yet I've not had much luck beyond the basics. Throughput & video corruption is an issue. > Some options I've looked at: > * XBMC & Boxee (see above) > * Elisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisa_(software)) > * MythTV (www.mythtv.org). Sorry, but I gave this a good shake, but was not too impressed. Torrents are in, TV tuners are so... 1990's. > * Entertainer (http://wiki.entertainer-project.com) > * LinuxMCE (http://linuxmce.org/) actually a home-automation distro with media capabilities > * and, or course, the VLC web interface (favorite of a mate of mine): http://wiki.videolan.org/Control_VLC_via_a_browser > > If anyone has a good media center that they could recommend, I'd like to hear (others include GeeXboX, SesamTV, CenterStage, ). Needs simple, pretty interface for use with a IR remote (LIRC), & broad media format support & possibly online integration. MythTV/MythBuntu does much of this, but overall it's not the ideal solution I'm looking for. > Doesn't HAVE to be GPL/FOSS, though that would be a strong preference. > This guy did a quick breakdown: http://www.masternewmedia.org/media-centers-alternative-open-source-cross-platform-solutions-/ > > ... > > Re discussion on future meets: VoIP pt.2 sound like a plan, but I've yet to do any serious homework, as Chill'r suggested. But that is a really good topic, & I expect there's still quite a bit to discuss. > > Judging from the discussion threads, I would say that a VM prez is definitely on the horizon. > * I've some experience with KVM & libvirt, but mostly from hard knocks. This is the official Ubuntu VM platform, and RedHad is moving to KVM from Xen/XenSource > * VirtualBox is pretty popular, especially for folks only getting into VM to run their favorite win apps; mostly games. But there it runs on Mac too (so no need for Parallels or VMWare-Fusion) > * Xen is not VM, in so much as it's paravirt. There is an important distinction between the 2: paravirt gives better performance, but requires customized kernel/OS. (see also ProxMox & OpenVZ) > * VMWare. The granddaddy of them all! Deserves an honorary mention. Odds are, if you use VM at work or home, you'll likely be using this. > * I care little for the ms proposition... > > k. enough for now. > back to work > > -J > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug _________________________________________________________________ Feeling the financial pinch? Check on MSN NZ Money for a hand http://money.msn.co.nz From tobias.gerschner at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 12:13:43 2009 From: tobias.gerschner at gmail.com (Tobias Gerschner) Date: Wed Jun 10 12:20:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options Message-ID: > Hi Tobias, > > Definitely interested in Xen. Any chance you could crop your messages > a bit? That was an awful lot of quoting for a little bit of reply... > > Regards, > Nevyn. > Better so? Guess I was still confused trying to figure out whether to bottom or top post XD. So, who has hands on experience with KVM ? regards -- Tobias Gerschner Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. From shodan.triopt at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 12:14:35 2009 From: shodan.triopt at gmail.com (Bjoern Gross-Hohnacker) Date: Wed Jun 10 12:30:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers In-Reply-To: References: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A2EFAEB.7060108@gmail.com> There are quite a few media player projects for the Nintendo Wii, all based on MPlayer. I'm running GeeXbox and it works really well for media files: Video and audio Title Description Author [1]GeeXboX Linux-based port of GeeXboX, which uses MPlayer for playback. The GeeXboX Team [2]MPlayer CE Native MPlayer port, a fork of the Team Twiizers MPlayer port, combining elements of MPlayerWii and GeeXboX. Scip, rodries, etc. [3]MPlayer TT Native MPlayer port to demonstrate DVD functionality. Team Twiizers [4]MPlayerWii Native MPlayer port. rOn [5]Wii MFE Port Linux-based port of MPlayer. nuvalo (source: [6]http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_homebrew_applications#Media_players ) Bjoern Juan . wrote: For the PS3 Owners: PS3 Media Server: [7]http://ps3mediaserver.blogspot.com/ I've been running this for AGES now (albeit on my windoze box) and it's pretty flawless. Lossless transcoding for unsupported PS3 files, seamlessly integrated into XMB, etc. It's just a jar file really, so I assume it can be hosted on any platform and w ork the exact same way. Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:39:01 +0000 From: [8]freakalad@yahoo.co.uk To: [9]aucklug@linux.net.nz Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers Forgot to make mention of a few other projects that where discussed: * SqueezeCenter, the predecessor to SlimServer, the software used on those real ly sexy cool home streaming devices that Logitech have out: [10]http://en.wikip edia.org/wiki/SqueezeCenter It supports DLNA ([11]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Allia nce), a uPnP standard for streaming media for domestic use. Is implemented in t he PS3, PSP, XBox, Wii (I think), Amarok (newer versions, if I'm not mistaken), and the XBMC can act as a DLNA server * XMBC ([12]http://xbmc.org/), XBox media center. Still still arguably one of t he best media systems about. & it's GPL! Unfortunately, as far as consoles/devi ces go, it's only supported on the old XBoxes, not the 360. * Boxee ([13]www.boxee.tv), a fork of the XBMC. * 3d-accelerated VNC: [14]www.virtualgl.org Been trying to get a simple media center going in a VM, but as of yet I've not had much luck beyond the basics. Throughput & video corruption is an issue. Some options I've looked at: * XBMC & Boxee (see above) * Elisa ([15]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisa_(software)) * MythTV ([16]www.mythtv.org). Sorry, but I gave this a good shake, but was not too impressed. Torrents are in, TV tuners are so... 1990's. * Entertainer ([17]http://wiki.entertainer-project.com) * LinuxMCE ([18]http://linuxmce.org/) actually a home-automation distro with me dia capabilities * and, or course, the VLC web interface (favorite of a mate of mine): [19]http: //wiki.videolan.org/Control_VLC_via_a_browser If anyone has a good media center that they could recommend, I'd like to hear ( others include GeeXboX, SesamTV, CenterStage, ). Needs simple, pretty interface for use with a IR remote (LIRC), & broad media format support & possibly onlin e integration. MythTV/MythBuntu does much of this, but overall it's not the ide al solution I'm looking for. Doesn't HAVE to be GPL/FOSS, though that would be a strong preference. This guy did a quick breakdown: [20]http://www.masternewmedia.org/media-centers -alternative-open-source-cross-platform-solutions-/ ... Re discussion on future meets: VoIP pt.2 sound like a plan, but I've yet to do any serious homework, as Chill'r suggested. But that is a really good topic, & I expect there's still quite a bit to discuss. Judging from the discussion threads, I would say that a VM prez is definitely o n the horizon. * I've some experience with KVM & libvirt, but mostly from hard knocks. This is the official Ubuntu VM platform, and RedHad is moving to KVM from Xen/XenSourc e * VirtualBox is pretty popular, especially for folks only getting into VM to ru n their favorite win apps; mostly games. But there it runs on Mac too (so no ne ed for Parallels or VMWare-Fusion) * Xen is not VM, in so much as it's paravirt. There is an important distinction between the 2: paravirt gives better performance, but requires customized kern el/OS. (see also ProxMox & OpenVZ) * VMWare. The granddaddy of them all! Deserves an honorary mention. Odds are, i f you use VM at work or home, you'll likely be using this. * I care little for the ms proposition... k. enough for now. back to work -J _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list [21]AuckLUG@linux.net.nz [22]http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug _________________________________________________________________ Feeling the financial pinch? Check on MSN NZ Money for a hand [23]http://money.msn.co.nz_______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list [24]AuckLUG@linux.net.nz [25]http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug References 1. http://wiibrew.org/wiki/GeeXboX 2. http://wiibrew.org/wiki/MPlayer_CE 3. http://wiibrew.org/wiki/MPlayer_TT 4. http://wiibrew.org/wiki/MPlayerWii 5. http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii_MFE_Port 6. http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_homebrew_applications#Media_players 7. http://ps3mediaserver.blogspot.com/ 8. mailto:freakalad@yahoo.co.uk 9. mailto:aucklug@linux.net.nz 10. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SqueezeCenter 11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance 12. http://xbmc.org/ 13. http://www.boxee.tv/ 14. http://www.virtualgl.org/ 15. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisa_(software)) 16. http://www.mythtv.org/ 17. http://wiki.entertainer-project.com/ 18. http://linuxmce.org/ 19. http://wiki.videolan.org/Control_VLC_via_a_browser 20. http://www.masternewmedia.org/media-centers-alternative-open-source-cross-platform-solutions-/ 21. mailto:AuckLUG@linux.net.nz 22. http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug 23. http://money.msn.co.nz_______________________________________________/ 24. mailto:AuckLUG@linux.net.nz 25. http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Wed Jun 10 12:36:14 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Wed Jun 10 12:36:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers In-Reply-To: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40906091736r39e7880au1b6c393f1923765@mail.gmail.com> XBMC isnt bad, I quite liked it on the Xbox (Still keep my original black box tickin' along just for that reason), and it works fine on my D945GCLF2 Atom Media PC, but it uses much more CPU decoding 720p video than other players, and full-HD video is a joke on my Media box with XBMC :pVideoLAN Client is even better with an iPhone / iTouch app to control it via its Web Interface. It doesnt like loading a large number of files / directories across a samba share in the Web interface (A few hundred) but its OK doing it if they're on a local FS or through VLC's File --> Quick Open File browser. Again, it doesnt *quite* do 1080 HD, but it has a darn good try. The only thing that seems to is CoreAVC in MPC-HC (XP)... To be honest I'm really happy with VLC, controlling it via my iPhone or my fiances iTouch through WiFi means no physical devices plugged in (Keyboard / Mouse) and cluttering up around the TV -- There's enough mess as-is with the consoles. I'm pretty keen to have a VoIP Part 2, I'd be really interested to learn more about FreeSWITCH, but the lack of a decent GUI has me slightly heasitant. There's the pfSense one, thats one option, though the FreeSWITCH guys dont seem to like it too much and claim performance on BSD is horrible. There's TCAPI and WikiPBX, but I couldnt get either of them to work. Apparently development on both is pretty stalled at the moment, but I haven't verified that. Also, the Phonebooth interface which looked great was donated to FreePBX (bandwidth.com) and now they're using that to assist them with tying FreePBX into FreeSWITCH. My 2c ... Chill. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > * XMBC (http://xbmc.org/), XBox media center. Still still arguably one of > the best media systems about. & it's GPL! Unfortunately, as far as > consoles/devices go, it's only supported on the old XBoxes, not the 360. * Boxee (www.boxee.tv), a fork of the XBMC. > > Some options I've looked at: > * XBMC & Boxee (see above) > * and, or course, the VLC web interface (favorite of a mate of mine): > http://wiki.videolan.org/Control_VLC_via_a_browser > Re discussion on future meets: VoIP pt.2 sound like a plan, but I've yet to > do any serious homework, as Chill'r suggested. But that is a really good > topic, & I expect there's still quite a bit to discuss. > From michael.auckland at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 13:02:09 2009 From: michael.auckland at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Wed Jun 10 13:04:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35207fdf0906091802i1a9bd743nc108775871faa7dc@mail.gmail.com> > Better so? > > Guess I was still confused trying to figure out whether to bottom or > top post XD. > > So, who has hands on experience with KVM ? > > regards > > -- > Tobias Gerschner > Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com KVM is getting beter and better , for shot run it is OK, can perform faster than XEN, vmware, vbox. Not verygood at long run and have some issues with some guest software ( like windows xp ) For lniux guest - better ( fastest ) vserver or openvz. For windows guest - vmware still is more stable. --- Michael From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 13:17:19 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Jun 10 13:17:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options In-Reply-To: <35207fdf0906091802i1a9bd743nc108775871faa7dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <35207fdf0906091802i1a9bd743nc108775871faa7dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Michael wrote: >> Better so? >> >> Guess I was still confused trying to figure out whether to bottom or >> top post XD. >> >> So, who has hands on experience with KVM ? >> >> regards >> >> -- >> Tobias Gerschner >> Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com > > KVM ?is getting beter and better , for shot run it is OK, can perform > faster than XEN, vmware, vbox. > Not verygood at long run and have some issues with some guest software > ( like windows xp ) > > For lniux guest - better ( fastest ) vserver or openvz. > For windows guest ?- vmware still is more stable. > --- > Michael This sounds like a showdown to me :) How about multiple speakers on the topic citing their reasons for each option over other options? I've been using VMWare for years now just because at the time it was the only viable option at the time. Wouldn't mind having a look at the alternatives to see if any of them fit my needs. Xen was out just because it relies on CPU instruction extensions for certain things (i.e. I don't want to have to compile a kernel for my IPCop box although that might soon be changing to pfSense) plus I was hating the documentation at the time I was looking at it. My main gripe was that with Xen documentation, I could figure out how to run a Debian machine under... Debian and a Redhat VM under Redhat etc. but there was very little information on achieving a Redhat VM with a Debian host without having to use the CPU extensions (Pacifica and ... I can't remember what Intel's was called...). I was finding the performance of Virtual Box to be lacking... anything near "speed". I've never given kvm a go though... Regards, Nevyn. From blakjak at blakjak.net Wed Jun 10 13:17:35 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Wed Jun 10 13:17:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Additional info - media centers In-Reply-To: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <655092.31115.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If anyone wants to take a look at how to integrate all this useful info into some logical Wiki entries on http://wiki.linux.net.nz... /hint On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Forgot to make mention of a few other projects that where discussed: * SqueezeCenter, the predecessor to SlimServer, the software used on those really sexy cool home streaming devices that Logitech have out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SqueezeCenter It supports DLNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance), a uPnP standard for streaming media for domestic use. Is implemented in the PS3, PSP, XBox, Wii (I think), Amarok (newer versions, if I'm not mistaken), and the XBMC can act as a DLNA server * XMBC (http://xbmc.org/), XBox media center. Still still arguably one of the best media systems about. & it's GPL! Unfortunately, as far as consoles/devices go, it's only supported on the old XBoxes, not the 360. * Boxee (www.boxee.tv), a fork of the XBMC. * 3d-accelerated VNC: www.virtualgl.org Been trying to get a simple media center going in a VM, but as of yet I've not had much luck beyond the basics. Throughput & video corruption is an issue. Some options I've looked at: * XBMC & Boxee (see above) * Elisa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisa_(software)) * MythTV (www.mythtv.org). Sorry, but I gave this a good shake, but was not too impressed. Torrents are in, TV tuners are so... 1990's. * Entertainer (http://wiki.entertainer-project.com) * LinuxMCE (http://linuxmce.org/) actually a home-automation distro with media capabilities * and, or course, the VLC web interface (favorite of a mate of mine): http://wiki.videolan.org/Control_VLC_via_a_browser If anyone has a good media center that they could recommend, I'd like to hear (others include GeeXboX, SesamTV, CenterStage, ). Needs simple, pretty interface for use with a IR remote (LIRC), & broad media format support & possibly online integration. MythTV/MythBuntu does much of this, but overall it's not the ideal solution I'm looking for. Doesn't HAVE to be GPL/FOSS, though that would be a strong preference. This guy did a quick breakdown: http://www.masternewmedia.org/media-centers-alternative-open-source-cross-platform-solutions-/ ... Re discussion on future meets: VoIP pt.2 sound like a plan, but I've yet to do any serious homework, as Chill'r suggested. But that is a really good topic, & I expect there's still quite a bit to discuss. Judging from the discussion threads, I would say that a VM prez is definitely on the horizon. * I've some experience with KVM & libvirt, but mostly from hard knocks. This is the official Ubuntu VM platform, and RedHad is moving to KVM from Xen/XenSource * VirtualBox is pretty popular, especially for folks only getting into VM to run their favorite win apps; mostly games. But there it runs on Mac too (so no need for Parallels or VMWare-Fusion) * Xen is not VM, in so much as it's paravirt. There is an important distinction between the 2: paravirt gives better performance, but requires customized kernel/OS. (see also ProxMox & OpenVZ) * VMWare. The granddaddy of them all! Deserves an honorary mention. Odds are, if you use VM at work or home, you'll likely be using this. * I care little for the ms proposition... k. enough for now. back to work -J > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From daniel at rimspace.net Wed Jun 10 14:29:16 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Wed Jun 10 14:29:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options In-Reply-To: <35207fdf0906091802i1a9bd743nc108775871faa7dc@mail.gmail.com> (Michael's message of "Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:02:09 +1200") References: <35207fdf0906091802i1a9bd743nc108775871faa7dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87prdchldv.fsf@rimspace.net> Michael writes: >> So, who has hands on experience with KVM ? I do, and so does my employer. In another window, in fact, I am presently watching KVM running a binary-only OS as it works away... > KVM is getting beter and better , for shot run it is OK, can perform faster > than XEN, vmware, vbox. Not verygood at long run Interesting. I certainly have no trouble with the relatively old combination of KVM 62 and a 2.6.24 kernel, and certainly none with the newer versions of the software, in long-running environments. Michael, could you expand on what the issues you have run into over the longer term are, and how you identified that it was a KVM slowdown with long-running processes? In any case, we never observed any significant performance difference between KVM and other hardware virtualized "pretend hardware" VM solutions, other than in the scope of PV drivers. > and have some issues with some guest software ( like windows xp ) ...no issues of note here, either, although we don't use PV drivers. This does mean lower, and in some cases significantly lower, performance than the other options that do have solid PV drivers for the platform. > For lniux guest - better ( fastest ) vserver or openvz. I would certainly look at OpenVZ (or Linux Containers) in preference to a fake hardware solution. > For windows guest - vmware still is more stable. We are certainly happy with this, and have had some dreadful issues with the newer VMWare solutions; Server 1 was nice, but Server 2 has a huge stack of Java software and kooky Firefox plugins, and has several times required a complete uninstall *and* manual purge to restore it to functioning. Regards, Daniel From michael.auckland at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 20:42:53 2009 From: michael.auckland at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Wed Jun 10 20:43:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options In-Reply-To: <87prdchldv.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <35207fdf0906091802i1a9bd743nc108775871faa7dc@mail.gmail.com> <87prdchldv.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <35207fdf0906100142u1f29e870pab74f357f2dc4bef@mail.gmail.com> > Michael, could you expand on what the issues you have run into over the longer > term are, and how you identified that it was a KVM slowdown with long-running > processes? I can't tell exactly what apps create a problenm for KVM , since test all of them very often ( Vbox , xen, kvm, vmware ) with kvm some apps crush the whole kvm, (not the host) so it is needed to create script which will run kvm guest again if it is dead. The same problem arise for Vbox. KVM is better than vbox if you need more than 1 cpu per guest and for linux guest you can use a lot of ram ( still better to use vserver or openvz ) without PV drivers KVM is slow on LAN. Disk access - fastest kvm and vbox ( for linux guest - vserver and openvz ) than xen, than vmware ( slowest ) > We are certainly happy with this, and have had some dreadful issues with the > newer VMWare solutions; Server 1 was nice, but Server 2 has a huge stack of > Java software and kooky Firefox plugins, and has several times required a > complete uninstall *and* manual purge to restore it to functioning. Yes, still use vmserver1 on my clients, since it very robust. Trying to use vbox and kvm , but revert back to vmware, since it is more stable in the long nun ( vbox hang approx once a wekk wihout any reason, kvm same as vbox - around once a week ) -- -- Michael From zed at zed.net.nz Thu Jun 11 19:34:29 2009 From: zed at zed.net.nz (zed) Date: Thu Jun 11 19:34:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Vancouver becomes role model for open source in government... Message-ID: Go to: http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/Daily-News/0c8fac07-b6bd-44ff-a37c-80f25ac5c44f.html Zed -- zed From robin.paulson at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 20:28:19 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Thu Jun 11 20:28:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] escape sequences in sed Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906110128n20c4f828v3fd5f081cb71c35c@mail.gmail.com> hi all, great meet on monday by the way; we should do that kind of informal things more often. talks are good, but so's a get-together and talk about whatever stuff. the car stereo was interesting, and so was hearing about virtualisation now, to my question: is there anyone here with sed experience? i'm writing a script to parse some data, but am stuck on one little bit. i have a piece of text i want to replace, and would use the usual s/foo/bar/ etc, where foo="/>, but the backslash stuffs things up so, can anyone advise how to get round this? i'm pretty sure it's escape sequences, but i never understood how they work properly cheers From thetoolman at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 20:48:54 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Thu Jun 11 20:49:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] escape sequences in sed In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906110128n20c4f828v3fd5f081cb71c35c@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770906110128n20c4f828v3fd5f081cb71c35c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: first off, thats a forward slash! In general a backslash escapes charaters, so my guess is s/\"\/\>/bar/ Havent tested sorry. 2009/6/11 Robin Paulson > hi all, > great meet on monday by the way; we should do that kind of informal > things more often. talks are good, but so's a get-together and talk > about whatever stuff. the car stereo was interesting, and so was > hearing about virtualisation > > now, to my question: > is there anyone here with sed experience? i'm writing a script to > parse some data, but am stuck on one little bit. i have a piece of > text i want to replace, and would use the usual s/foo/bar/ etc, where > foo="/>, but the backslash stuffs things up > > so, can anyone advise how to get round this? i'm pretty sure it's > escape sequences, but i never understood how they work properly > > cheers > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From john at og.co.nz Thu Jun 11 20:48:31 2009 From: john at og.co.nz (john) Date: Thu Jun 11 20:54:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] escape sequences in sed In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906110128n20c4f828v3fd5f081cb71c35c@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770906110128n20c4f828v3fd5f081cb71c35c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A30C4DF.1050504@og.co.nz> Robin Paulson wrote: > now, to my question: > is there anyone here with sed experience? i'm writing a script to > parse some data, but am stuck on one little bit. i have a piece of > text i want to replace, and would use the usual s/foo/bar/ etc, where > foo="/>, but the backslash stuffs things up > You don't have to use slashes to delimit the regular expressions. So you can try something like: s#foo#bar# or s!foo!bar! or any other delimiter which won't clash with your tags. John O'Gorman > so, can anyone advise how to get round this? i'm pretty sure it's > escape sequences, but i never understood how they work properly > > cheers > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > From robin.paulson at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 21:03:12 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Thu Jun 11 21:03:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] escape sequences in sed In-Reply-To: <4A30C4DF.1050504@og.co.nz> References: <2f3aa2770906110128n20c4f828v3fd5f081cb71c35c@mail.gmail.com> <4A30C4DF.1050504@og.co.nz> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906110203r63184863x8277ad77bd128ba0@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/11 john : > Robin Paulson wrote: >> now, to my question: >> is there anyone here with sed experience? i'm writing a script to >> parse some data, but am stuck on one little bit. i have a piece of >> text i want to replace, and would use the usual s/foo/bar/ etc, where >> foo="/>, but the backslash stuffs things up >> > You don't have to use slashes to delimit the regular expressions. > So you can try something like: > s#foo#bar# > or > s!foo!bar! > or any ?other delimiter which won't clash with your tags. fabulous, thanks john. and well spotted, tim. i shouldn't type and eat at the same time From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Jun 12 11:45:52 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Jun 12 11:46:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply Message-ID: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Back in my days living in SA, we had to contend with frequent power disruptions, and the idea occurred to me to wire up a PC's power supply with a standby 12V DC battery in a similar manner that alarm systems are wired up, to act as a very rudimentary UPS. Since machines run off 12V & 5V DC, I see no good reason why this should not be possible/feasible, other than my own ignorance. Is anyone versed well enough to give me some pointers on this, please? Or possibly a resource where I can find out? (btw. I see that google had employed similar thinking: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html) - J From juanvr at live.com Fri Jun 12 11:53:01 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan .) Date: Fri Jun 12 11:53:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply In-Reply-To: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jaco, This should get you off to a start... http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5CATX12V_1_3dg.pdf Personally, I don't see the use for this, unless you want to set up a decent power distribution box to run a bunch of systems. It should be more "efficient" running 1 big power source than alot of seperate power supplies. Good luck with that :) > Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:45:52 +0000 > From: freakalad@yahoo.co.uk > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply > > > Back in my days living in SA, we had to contend with frequent power disruptions, and the idea occurred to me to wire up a PC's power supply with a standby 12V DC battery in a similar manner that alarm systems are wired up, to act as a very rudimentary UPS. > Since machines run off 12V & 5V DC, I see no good reason why this should not be possible/feasible, other than my own ignorance. > > Is anyone versed well enough to give me some pointers on this, please? > Or possibly a resource where I can find out? > > (btw. I see that google had employed similar thinking: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html) > > - J > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug _________________________________________________________________ Looking to move up the career ladder? Explore the endless opportunities here! http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fmsn%2Eseek%2Eco%2Enz%2FID%5FSEEKNZMAIN%5FUSR%2FPages%2Falliance%5Fhomepage%2Eascx%3FComeFrom%3Dmsnnz%26tracking%3Dsk%3Atl%3Asknz%3Amsnnz%3A0%3Ahottag%3Aexplore&_t=757263783&_r=Seek_NZ_tagline&_m=EXT From daniel at rimspace.net Fri Jun 12 13:45:49 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Fri Jun 12 13:46:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply In-Reply-To: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:45:52 +0000 (GMT)") References: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <871vpqmdgy.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: > Back in my days living in SA, we had to contend with frequent power > disruptions, and the idea occurred to me to wire up a PC's power supply with > a standby 12V DC battery in a similar manner that alarm systems are wired > up, to act as a very rudimentary UPS. Not a disastrous idea, although you might find it simpler to purchase a 12-volt DC power supply, then work out a suitable arrangement to have it switch between battery and an external 12-volt source on demand... (or, you know, just lay out the couple of hundred dollars for a UPS, since they cost next to nothing these days. Even Aldi sell them. :) > Since machines run off 12V & 5V DC, I see no good reason why this should not > be possible/feasible, other than my own ignorance. This, however, worries me. Those things have 240-volt supply in them, and there are dragons in that. If you don't know enough to be able to do the design yourself, *PLEASE* don't fiddle with the innards of the device labeled "no user serviceable parts inside" and with a 240-volt plug. We don't need another dead hacker, and you don't need your house catching fire, or a lead-acid battery exploding, or emitting sulfuric acid gas into the room... ...all of which are distinctly possible if you get this wrong. Seriously. Regards, Daniel From ad.pike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 14:18:52 2009 From: ad.pike at gmail.com (Adrian Pike) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:19:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement Message-ID: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> Hi Long time listener First time Poster! I have been using Linux on and off since about 95 when I struggled to get X windows to work on a trident video card in a 386 pc.... More recently I put together Naval sonar interfaces and processing systems using a range of embedded processor running Linux. However I haven't really used Linux since about 2005. I have a Apple Powerbook G4 550MHz from 2001 which I mainly use as a music source in the garage. Apple have long stopped supporting OS X 10.3 (I think may be 10.2) and the computer just feels really slow. I found a PPC build of Unbuntu 9.04 and booted the live CD and it appeared to run OK even from the CD so I am planning to install it. The question is what Linux app is the best replacement for iTunes? I only want audio playback but a nice library feature is important ie search by artist or album, last played just like iTunes does so well. Also can Linux mount Apple filesystems at least read only? Thanks Ad From kiirani at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 14:31:41 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:31:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260906111931m9f06344r28e8597f40474859@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/12 Adrian Pike : > The question is what Linux app is the best replacement for iTunes? I only > want audio playback but a nice library feature is important ie search by > artist or album, last played just like iTunes does so well. Did you want a replacement for iTunes for interfacing with an iPod, or just for playing music? I know there's a program that's usually used as a drop-in replacement for itunes with regards to ipods, I think it might be rhythmbox but I'm not sure (never used it myself) http://projects.gnome.org/rhythmbox/ If you just want a media player, last time I tried exaile it was really good: http://www.exaile.org/ It's pretty much an amarok clone for gnome. Also if you wind up going kubuntu (or don't mind pulling millions of kde libs), amarok might be worth a try. I believe it has ipod support as well, but I never tested that out. http://amarok.kde.org/ From kiirani at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 14:34:07 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:34:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <2494ad260906111931m9f06344r28e8597f40474859@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260906111931m9f06344r28e8597f40474859@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260906111934j4db9c169r1a9a3f0203a61010@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/12 Kennedy Skelton : > 2009/6/12 Adrian Pike : >> The question is what Linux app is the best replacement for iTunes? I only >> want audio playback but a nice library feature is important ie search by >> artist or album, last played just like iTunes does so well. > > Did you want a replacement for iTunes for interfacing with an iPod, or > just for playing music? >> I only want audio playback Durr, I think my brain stopped working for a minute there, sorry :) From sunil at sunil.co.nz Fri Jun 12 14:34:41 2009 From: sunil at sunil.co.nz (sunil) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:34:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9e3eddfe0906111934x3c94fda7y1cd4cf9b1fd272b6@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Adrian Pike wrote: > Hi > Long time listener First time Poster! > > I have been using Linux on and off since about 95 when I struggled to get X > windows to work on a trident video card in a 386 pc.... More recently I put > together Naval sonar interfaces and processing systems using a range > of embedded processor running Linux. However I haven't really used Linux > since about 2005. > > I have a Apple Powerbook G4 550MHz from 2001 which I mainly use as a music > source in the garage. Apple have long stopped supporting OS X 10.3 (I think > may be 10.2) and the computer just feels really slow. I found a PPC build > of > Unbuntu 9.04 and booted the live CD and it appeared to run OK even from the > CD so I am planning to install it. > > The question is what Linux app is the best replacement for iTunes? I only > want audio playback but a nice library feature is important ie search by > artist or album, last played just like iTunes does so well. > > Also can Linux mount Apple filesystems at least read only? > > Thanks > > Ad > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz If you just want audio playback and a library, you have quiet a few options. Your solution may depend on your choice of desktop environment. KDE can come with Amarok, which is quiet fully featured. There is also Songbird. My personal choice is mpd and a combination of clients for it. mpd is the music player daemon. It can store your library in a database and manage playlists. It can be controlled by the command line or any of a handful of GUI's. It can be network enabled, so you can control it via a remote front-end. (Including an iphone app, mpod). I'm not sure of this, but I think it might also be lighter, because you don't have to use a GUI. > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From sunil at sunil.co.nz Fri Jun 12 14:41:05 2009 From: sunil at sunil.co.nz (sunil) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:41:13 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <2494ad260906111931m9f06344r28e8597f40474859@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260906111931m9f06344r28e8597f40474859@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9e3eddfe0906111941p349d7006t295ec8d8a1bdef88@mail.gmail.com> >Also if you wind up going kubuntu (or don't mind pulling millions of >kde libs), amarok might be worth a try. I believe it has ipod support >as well, but I never tested that out. >http://amarok.kde.org/ If I understand correctly, ipod support for amarok is dependant on the ipod hash project. At present, the project doesn't exist, because apple DMCA'd the website operator. Even before the DMCA notice was given, the existing hash had been undefeated for some time. Of course, there are probably other ways to access an ipod via linux. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 14:49:09 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:49:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply In-Reply-To: <871vpqmdgy.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871vpqmdgy.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Daniel Pittman wrote: > Jaco van der Merwe writes: > >> Back in my days living in SA, we had to contend with frequent power >> disruptions, and the idea occurred to me to wire up a PC's power supply with >> a standby 12V DC battery in a similar manner that alarm systems are wired >> up, to act as a very rudimentary UPS. > > Not a disastrous idea, although you might find it simpler to purchase a > 12-volt DC power supply, then work out a suitable arrangement to have it > switch between battery and an external 12-volt source on demand... > > (or, you know, just lay out the couple of hundred dollars for a UPS, since > ?they cost next to nothing these days. ?Even Aldi sell them. :) > >> Since machines run off 12V & 5V DC, I see no good reason why this should not >> be possible/feasible, other than my own ignorance. > > This, however, worries me. ?Those things have 240-volt supply in them, and > there are dragons in that. > > If you don't know enough to be able to do the design yourself, *PLEASE* don't > fiddle with the innards of the device labeled "no user serviceable parts > inside" and with a 240-volt plug. > > We don't need another dead hacker, and you don't need your house catching > fire, or a lead-acid battery exploding, or emitting sulfuric acid gas into the > room... > > ...all of which are distinctly possible if you get this wrong. ?Seriously. > > Regards, > ? ? ? ?Daniel For a purely academic counter-argument... A couple of months ago Google unveiled some details about their servers. Each server has a 12 volt battery attached instead of an UPS or backup generator. The motherboards have been designed to run solely on 12volts citing much better power efficiently rates (thus less heat and therefore less cooling). http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html The boxes look a little weird with a box out the back for the power supply and another one at the front for the battery. Still - this would be fantastic for a scalable data center. You're only keeping enough power stored up for the servers you've got rather than trying to accommodate for all that power at initial set up. Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 14:56:25 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:56:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Adrian Pike wrote: > Hi > Long time listener First time Poster! > > I have been using Linux on and off since about 95 when I struggled to get X > windows to work on a trident video card in a 386 pc.... More recently I put > together Naval sonar interfaces and processing systems using a range > of embedded processor running Linux. However I haven't really used Linux > since about 2005. > > I have a Apple Powerbook G4 550MHz from 2001 which I mainly use as a music > source in the garage. Apple have long stopped supporting OS X 10.3 (I think > may be 10.2) and the computer just feels really slow. I found a PPC build of > Unbuntu 9.04 and booted the live CD and it appeared to run OK even from the > CD so I am planning to install it. > > The question is what Linux app is the best replacement for iTunes? I only > want audio playback but a nice library feature is important ie search by > artist or album, last played just like iTunes does so well. > > Also can Linux mount Apple filesystems at least read only? > > Thanks > > Ad Hi Adrian, Welcome to the list. I'm a long time poster, seldom a listener ;) If you want something that looks like itunes, I've had a bit of a play with songbird. Of course I'm a minimal sort of a guy preferring to stick to something really minimal such as audacious so I couldn't give you a proper review of it - that and I've only ever used songbird on Windows just because it was in the portable apps archive and I really needed something to block out the noisy power supply of a computer while I was working on it. As for Apple filesystems, you shouldn't have any issues. As far as I know Linux has supported apple filesystems since the dark ages (when terrifying dependency monster's roamed the earth). Linux is generally pretty good about supporting other FS's. I suppose it's a symptom of being open.. Regards, Nevyn. From simon at simongreen.name Fri Jun 12 14:56:54 2009 From: simon at simongreen.name (Simon Green) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:57:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <9e3eddfe0906111941p349d7006t295ec8d8a1bdef88@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260906111931m9f06344r28e8597f40474859@mail.gmail.com> <9e3eddfe0906111941p349d7006t295ec8d8a1bdef88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4d1940c20906111956o1f1fcea0p6ff9b940fd3baa76@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/12 sunil > If I understand correctly, ipod support for amarok is dependant on the > ipod > hash project. > At present, the project doesn't exist, because apple DMCA'd the website > operator. > Even before the DMCA notice was given, the existing hash had been > undefeated > for some time. > Of course, there are probably other ways to access an ipod via linux. > I have a 6th Gen ipod (the first to include the hash) and it works correct in Ubuntu 8.10 and 9.04 (may work in earlier versions too) with Amarok and other audio applications. Sorry for getting slightly OT from the OP. -- simon From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Fri Jun 12 15:21:11 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Fri Jun 12 15:21:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40906112021w5131d9fcuffc2eb7ac78c562@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Nevyn wrote: > > > As for Apple filesystems, you shouldn't have any issues. As far as I > know Linux has supported apple filesystems since the dark ages (when > terrifying dependency monster's roamed the earth). Linux is generally > pretty good about supporting other FS's. I suppose it's a symptom of > being open.. Does anybody know what support is like for the iPhone or 2nd Gen iPod Touch in linux at present? From juanvr at live.com Fri Jun 12 15:45:35 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan) Date: Fri Jun 12 15:45:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40906112021w5131d9fcuffc2eb7ac78c562@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40906112021w5131d9fcuffc2eb7ac78c562@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: None from what I found... You can't switch the iPod touch or iPhone to "disk mode", which is what alot of Linux replacements need to interface with your iPod... I've got an iPod Touch 2nd Gen, and haven't found an iTunes replacement unfortunately. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Chilling_Silence" Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:21 PM To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Nevyn wrote: > >> >> >> As for Apple filesystems, you shouldn't have any issues. As far as I >> know Linux has supported apple filesystems since the dark ages (when >> terrifying dependency monster's roamed the earth). Linux is generally >> pretty good about supporting other FS's. I suppose it's a symptom of >> being open.. > > > Does anybody know what support is like for the iPhone or 2nd Gen iPod > Touch > in linux at present? > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From daniel at rimspace.net Fri Jun 12 17:00:52 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Fri Jun 12 17:01:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply In-Reply-To: (Nevyn's message of "Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:49:09 +1200") References: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871vpqmdgy.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <87hbymkpvf.fsf@rimspace.net> Nevyn writes: > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Daniel Pittman wrote: >> Jaco van der Merwe writes: >> >>> Back in my days living in SA, we had to contend with frequent power >>> disruptions, and the idea occurred to me to wire up a PC's power supply with >>> a standby 12V DC battery in a similar manner that alarm systems are wired >>> up, to act as a very rudimentary UPS. >> >> Not a disastrous idea, although you might find it simpler to purchase a >> 12-volt DC power supply, then work out a suitable arrangement to have it >> switch between battery and an external 12-volt source on demand... [...] > For a purely academic counter-argument... A couple of months ago Google > unveiled some details about their servers. Each server has a 12 volt battery > attached instead of an UPS or backup generator. *nod* You might notice I suggested a 12-volt DC power supply? Those will provide many of the same advantages ... assuming you don't have to down-convert to 12-volt somewhere in the chain.[1] > The motherboards have been designed to run solely on 12volts citing much > better power efficiently rates (thus less heat and therefore less cooling). I would expect that they had to be custom designed, in either the battery, the attachment or the motherboard, because otherwise the voltage sag over the life of the battery would cause problems... > http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html ...and a quick check shows that they run the 12-volt supply into a regular power supply, then the output of that back out, which is what I would expect. The commercial 12-volt DC power supplies are, literally, a commercial implementation of the same design. I don't know if Google just bought one in, or if they hacked existing hardware, or designed it from scratch themselves, but any of those would work. Regards, Daniel My point, mostly, is that you don't want to mess with 240V AC unless you already knew enough that you don't need to ask about how to do it. Footnotes: [1] After all, moving the inefficiency around doesn't really help much, and many of these solutions only really gain you much if you have a data center to fill rather than a single PC. :) From jpickard at slingshot.co.nz Fri Jun 12 19:26:22 2009 From: jpickard at slingshot.co.nz (Jonathan Pickard) Date: Fri Jun 12 19:28:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906111918q53f94a1coeccfb63687d2dbe5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A32031E.4090604@slingshot.co.nz> http://edna.sourceforge.net/ Adrian Pike wrote: > Hi > Long time listener First time Poster! > > I have been using Linux on and off since about 95 when I struggled to get X > windows to work on a trident video card in a 386 pc.... More recently I put > together Naval sonar interfaces and processing systems using a range > of embedded processor running Linux. However I haven't really used Linux > since about 2005. > > I have a Apple Powerbook G4 550MHz from 2001 which I mainly use as a music > source in the garage. Apple have long stopped supporting OS X 10.3 (I think > may be 10.2) and the computer just feels really slow. I found a PPC build of > Unbuntu 9.04 and booted the live CD and it appeared to run OK even from the > CD so I am planning to install it. > > The question is what Linux app is the best replacement for iTunes? I only > want audio playback but a nice library feature is important ie search by > artist or album, last played just like iTunes does so well. > > Also can Linux mount Apple filesystems at least read only? > > Thanks > > Ad > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From rleck at pl.net Sat Jun 13 14:47:08 2009 From: rleck at pl.net (rick) Date: Sat Jun 13 14:54:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply In-Reply-To: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1244861228.14005.13.camel@ananda> On Thu, 2009-06-11 at 23:45 +0000, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Back in my days living in SA, we had to contend with frequent power disruptions, and the idea occurred to me to wire up a PC's power supply with a standby 12V DC battery in a similar manner that alarm systems are wired up, to act as a very rudimentary UPS. > Since machines run off 12V & 5V DC, I see no good reason why this should not be possible/feasible, other than my own ignorance. Jaco For my two cents, I would look at this baby: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article601-page1.html As a registered technician I would agree with the earlier response you got not to mess with building it yourself if you don't have the skills already. buy this pre-built unit or something similar. It's been over a year since I researched this very question and I understand that they make a few different models. Did I ever follow up and do it? No. Perhaps it is the perfect project for winter? I would test one of these units with a laptop power brick, and use a cheap multimeter from Dick Smiths or Jaycar to see what your motherboard draws from the brick in DC Amps under various workloads. If it's a relatively low draw or if you only need backup for short periods, you might get away with a 12V battery and charge circuit, with the charge potentiometer bumped up to about 13.9 VDC (but no more than 14.4 VDC). Otherwise a 24VDC charge circuit (also from Dick Smiths, or Jaycar) and a 24 VDC battery to feed the beast. It could be a nice little UPS project. the other bonus is that the only fan left is the one on the CPU, which is much quieter and can be programmed to turn on and off only when needed! Much, much quieter for that box in the corner always running, which is what inspired me to research this in the first place... Cheers Rick From jis at quicksilver.net.nz Sat Jun 13 23:33:31 2009 From: jis at quicksilver.net.nz (jis@quicksilver.net.nz) Date: Sat Jun 13 23:33:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> Message-ID: <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> I have installed Linux Mint and Ubuntu in virtual machines created using VMware Server 2. The host operating system is Windows XP. The results are terrible. If I start either virtual machine, hardly anything works as it should. About a couple of years ago someone at an installfest helped me install VMware Server on a Windows XP host and set up a virtual machine running Ubuntu. It worked well. Maybe I should try installing VMware Server 1 instead of Server 2. I still have the installer but no manual. I have little knowledge of virtualisation. Is VMware Server 1 my best option? If so then does anyone have the PDF manual? Is the current version of VMware Tools compatible with VMware Server 1? Don Johnston > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:29:16 +1000 > From: Daniel Pittman > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: <87prdchldv.fsf@rimspace.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > We are certainly happy with this, and have had some dreadful issues with the > newer VMWare solutions; Server 1 was nice, but Server 2 has a huge stack of > Java software and kooky Firefox plugins, and has several times required a > complete uninstall *and* manual purge to restore it to functioning. > > Regards, > Daniel From nevynh at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 23:56:19 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sat Jun 13 23:56:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 11:33 PM, wrote: > I have installed Linux Mint and Ubuntu in virtual machines created > using VMware Server 2. The host operating system is Windows XP. > > The results are terrible. If I start either virtual machine, hardly > anything works as it should. > > About a couple of years ago someone at an installfest helped me > install VMware Server on a Windows XP host and set up a virtual > machine running Ubuntu. It worked well. > > Maybe I should try installing VMware Server 1 instead of Server 2. I > still have the installer but no manual. > > I have little knowledge of virtualisation. Is VMware Server 1 my best > option? If so then does anyone have the PDF manual? Is the current > version of VMware Tools compatible with VMware Server 1? > > Don Johnston I refuse to move to VMware Server 2. I don't see the need. I'm really happy with VMware Server 1 and haven't had any real problems with it thus. On a Windows box, VMware is probably your only viable solution. There is Qemu but it had some extensions which aren't available on Windows (and the "extention" closed source) which meant it was very very slow. However, you don't have to use server. You can try VMware Player which might give you better results. Installation of these is trivial. VMtools is quite specific to each version of whatever VMWare product. i.e. version 1.6 will have a different version of VMware tools. There's no need to try and copy one version of vmware tools from somewhere else. As for a manual, I've never seen such a thing ;) Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 00:05:45 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Jun 14 00:05:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply In-Reply-To: <1244861228.14005.13.camel@ananda> References: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1244861228.14005.13.camel@ananda> Message-ID: > For my two cents, I would look at this baby: > http://www.silentpcreview.com/article601-page1.html > > > Cheers > Rick That's kind of sexy. I mean, forgetting the annoying it's half a power supply bit, in terms of using a battery, this looks like a great solution. Of course, the problem is still - how do you compensate for falling voltages on the battery as it discharges? Regards, Nevyn. From thetoolman at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 11:50:18 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Sun Jun 14 11:50:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: Simple trick, ensure that VT extensions are enabled, if your CPU supports it! Big performance difference. 2009/6/13 > I have installed Linux Mint and Ubuntu in virtual machines created > using VMware Server 2. The host operating system is Windows XP. > > The results are terrible. If I start either virtual machine, hardly > anything works as it should. > > About a couple of years ago someone at an installfest helped me > install VMware Server on a Windows XP host and set up a virtual > machine running Ubuntu. It worked well. > > Maybe I should try installing VMware Server 1 instead of Server 2. I > still have the installer but no manual. > > I have little knowledge of virtualisation. Is VMware Server 1 my best > option? If so then does anyone have the PDF manual? Is the current > version of VMware Tools compatible with VMware Server 1? > > Don Johnston > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:29:16 +1000 > > From: Daniel Pittman > > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options > > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > > Message-ID: <87prdchldv.fsf@rimspace.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > We are certainly happy with this, and have had some dreadful issues with > the > > newer VMWare solutions; Server 1 was nice, but Server 2 has a huge stack > of > > Java software and kooky Firefox plugins, and has several times required a > > complete uninstall *and* manual purge to restore it to functioning. > > > > Regards, > > Daniel > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 16:54:30 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Jun 14 16:56:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tim Toolman wrote: > Simple trick, ensure that VT extensions are enabled, if your CPU supports > it! ?Big performance difference. > > 2009/6/13 > >> I have installed Linux Mint and Ubuntu in virtual machines created >> using VMware Server 2. The host operating system is Windows XP. >> >> The results are terrible. If I start either virtual machine, hardly >> anything works as it should. >> >> About a couple of years ago someone at an installfest helped me >> install VMware Server on a Windows XP host and set up a virtual >> machine running Ubuntu. It worked well. >> >> Maybe I should try installing VMware Server 1 instead of Server 2. I >> still have the installer but no manual. >> >> I have little knowledge of virtualisation. Is VMware Server 1 my best >> option? If so then does anyone have the PDF manual? Is the current >> version of VMware Tools compatible with VMware Server 1? >> >> Don Johnston >> >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:29:16 +1000 >> > From: Daniel Pittman >> > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization options >> > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list >> > Message-ID: <87prdchldv.fsf@rimspace.net> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> > >> > We are certainly happy with this, and have had some dreadful issues with >> the >> > newer VMWare solutions; Server 1 was nice, but Server 2 has a huge stack >> of >> > Java software and kooky Firefox plugins, and has several times required a >> > complete uninstall *and* manual purge to restore it to functioning. >> > >> > Regards, >> > ? ? ? ? Daniel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > > -- > Tim Taylor > +64 21 0541287 > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 16:55:52 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Jun 14 16:56:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tim Toolman wrote: > Simple trick, ensure that VT extensions are enabled, if your CPU supports > it! ?Big performance difference. That's the bugger... although I think it's simply "V" in AMD processors. VT in Intel. While not strictly compatible, they do both do essentially the same thing. Regards, Nevyn. From rleck at pl.net Sun Jun 14 17:10:21 2009 From: rleck at pl.net (rick) Date: Sun Jun 14 17:10:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hotwiring a power supply In-Reply-To: References: <606647.94885.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <1244861228.14005.13.camel@ananda> Message-ID: <1244956221.4573.6.camel@ananda> > That's kind of sexy. I mean, forgetting the annoying it's half a power > supply bit, in terms of using a battery, this looks like a great > solution. Of course, the problem is still - how do you compensate for > falling voltages on the battery as it discharges? > Well Nevyn, that's why I recommended a 24 VDC battery and charge circuit. this 12/5/3.3 VDC PSU needs a healthy 14 VDC input as a minimum. Power it from a 24 VDC charger w/ battery and the battery will have to be pretty stuffed before the unit gives out - probably more than enough time for the mains to be restored. A DC to DC circuit always wants a higher voltage in than it's highest rated voltage out. Most of the little charge circuits have a low voltage protection for the battery, probably cutting off the juice when the 24V battery gets down to about 17V. Plenty of time if the battery is big enough. Cheers Rick From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jun 16 12:05:57 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Jun 16 12:06:08 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu user experience & pet-peeves feedback Message-ID: <743865.10049.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Canonical have now somewhat simplified useful feedback to developers & designers via the aptly-named "One Hundred Paper Cuts" effort https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/06/canonical-to-boost-ubuntu-usability-by-tackling-papercuts.ars There's also requested feedback via the Usability Survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=N4Q6kFcYehhe_2fzKnoO_2bEDQ_3d_3d P.S. Thanks for that info guys. - J From ad.pike at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 13:05:45 2009 From: ad.pike at gmail.com (Adrian Pike) Date: Tue Jun 16 13:06:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: iTunes Replacement Message-ID: <263c146f0906151805s12845d36n3353a39cd9fc0670@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the suggestions. Songbird looks just what I am looking for. Even the Rhythm Box which comes with Ubuntu looks useful. However as the PPC version of Ubuntu doesn't come with the MP3 libs and the system couldn't find any to download so mp3 playback doesn't work. Looks like I will have to find the sources and build them myself. However on a positive note I used wubi to install Ubuntu on my Windows Acer netbook and it just worked. A really easy way for (MS) people to try Linux. Installation was quick and every thing "just worked". Put the .iso and wubi.exe on a 1GB memory stick and people can have a working Linux system in about 1/2 hour. Ad From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 13:18:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 16 13:18:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: iTunes Replacement In-Reply-To: <263c146f0906151805s12845d36n3353a39cd9fc0670@mail.gmail.com> References: <263c146f0906151805s12845d36n3353a39cd9fc0670@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Adrian Pike wrote: > Thanks for the suggestions. Songbird looks just what I am looking for. Even > the Rhythm Box which comes with Ubuntu looks useful. > However as the PPC version of Ubuntu doesn't come with the MP3 libs and the > system couldn't find any to download so mp3 playback doesn't work. Looks > like I will have to find the sources and build them myself. > > However on a positive note I used wubi to install Ubuntu on my Windows Acer > netbook and it just worked. A really easy way for (MS) people to try Linux. > Installation was quick and every thing "just worked". Put the .iso and > wubi.exe on a 1GB memory stick and people can have a working Linux system in > about 1/2 hour. > > Ad Perhaps try this page? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats From mvaraine at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 15:19:11 2009 From: mvaraine at gmail.com (Morgan Varaine) Date: Tue Jun 16 15:19:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] ProNET question? Message-ID: <8af1512a0906152019x3e369fa9s2b04606918f9b577@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Anyone using ProNET for their co-location services? Looking at co-locating a slave DNS server for redundancy. Just wanting to know the usual :) What's their network like? uptime? etc.. Also heard a nasty rumor that they might be going under... But those kinds of rumors are flying in "these uncertain economic times" as the MSM loves putting it. Thanks in advance for any positive or negative stories, I know it is subjective as well as dependent on the day/person. Cheers, Morgan From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Wed Jun 17 15:59:07 2009 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Daemonax) Date: Wed Jun 17 15:59:16 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] [Fwd: [FSF] New Zealand in urgent danger of software patents] Message-ID: <1245211147.6292.0.camel@studypad> The director of the End Software Patents campaign Ciaran O'Riordan writes to warn of an imminent threat of software patents in New Zealand: Dear Free Software Supporters, The New Zealand government has proposed allowing unlimited software patenting. They are accepting comments until July 2nd, but participation from the people who will be harmed seems very low. The details of how to participate can be found on swpat.org: http://en.swpat.org/wiki/New_Zealand Participation of the free software community is particularly important because, although SME federations and consumer rights groups are sometimes the most influential lobbies against software patents, it's often the free software community that raises awareness of the issue and gets these other groups moving. The July 2nd deadline is very close, so work is needed now. We thus urge you to participate in the consultation, but also to raise awareness on blogs, news sites, and among email groups, and to contact related interest organisations and companies to ask them to get involved too. Some other swpat.org pages that may be useful: http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Organising_a_campaign http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Software_patents_harm_SMEs http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Studies_on_economics_and_innovation http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Harm_to_standards Ciaran O'Riordan Director End Software Patents Tel: +32 487 64 17 54 email: ciaran [at] fsf.org end. -- Peter T. Brown Executive Director Free Software Foundation www.fsf.org www.gnu.org info-fsf mailing list info-fsf@gnu.org Unsubscribe: http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-fsf From jis at quicksilver.net.nz Thu Jun 18 12:52:55 2009 From: jis at quicksilver.net.nz (jis@quicksilver.net.nz) Date: Thu Jun 18 12:53:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Network and internet access from Ubuntu Message-ID: <4A3A38A7.1715.12FF49F@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> I installed an Ubuntu 9.04 virtual appliance on VMware Player. I then set the IP address, subnet mask and DNS manually. I then tried accessing a web site using Firefox and got a message that the server could not be found. I tried accessing my Windows network and got the message "Unable to mount location. Unable to retrieve share list from server". I tried using DHCP and still didn't have any luck. The Ubuntu documentation wasn't any help. Don Johnston From garrett.stoupe at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 13:02:22 2009 From: garrett.stoupe at gmail.com (Garrett Stoupe) Date: Thu Jun 18 13:03:08 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Network and internet access from Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4A3A38A7.1715.12FF49F@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <4A3A38A7.1715.12FF49F@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: whats the network settings for vmware? On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:52 PM, wrote: > I installed an Ubuntu 9.04 virtual appliance on VMware Player. I then > set the IP address, subnet mask and DNS manually. I then tried > accessing a web site using Firefox and got a message that the server > could not be found. I tried accessing my Windows network and got the > message "Unable to mount location. Unable to retrieve share list from > server". I tried using DHCP and still didn't have any luck. The > Ubuntu documentation wasn't any help. > > Don Johnston > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 13:04:15 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 18 13:04:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Network and internet access from Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4A3A38A7.1715.12FF49F@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <4A3A38A7.1715.12FF49F@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:52 AM, wrote: > I installed an Ubuntu 9.04 virtual appliance on VMware Player. I then > set the IP address, subnet mask and DNS manually. I then tried > accessing a web site using Firefox and got a message that the server > could not be found. I tried accessing my Windows network and got the > message "Unable to mount location. Unable to retrieve share list from > server". I tried using DHCP and still didn't have any luck. The > Ubuntu documentation wasn't any help. > > Don Johnston :) this sounds like we're going to have to go the way of troubleshooting. VMWare has it's own little networking options - i.e. bridge, nat etc. So the first thing to do is to determine whether you're talking to the network at all. For this, we should do a "ping" to an existing computer on your network. We should do this twice. Once for the host machine, and once for something else on the network. On the host machine, in a terminal type in: ifconfig if you're using Ubuntu, try: sudo ifconfig And take down the IP Address. Now for vmware machine, type in (in a terminal): ping [ipaddress] If it results in failure, then the computer isn't talking to any other computer. Chances are you're going to have to try a different mode in vmware. If it does seem to talk to the host machine, then the next step is to see if it's talking to the rest of the network or just the host machine. So grab the ip address of something else, and in the vmware machine, repeat the "ping" step above. This should give us some idea of where the error is happening. Regards, Nevyn. From thetoolman at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 19:26:08 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Thu Jun 18 19:26:16 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Network and internet access from Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4A3A38A7.1715.12FF49F@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <4A3A38A7.1715.12FF49F@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: To clarify: A Host running an ubuntu appliance ? Host on ethernet or wireless? the network sharing stuff is sometimes tricky.. 2009/6/18 > I installed an Ubuntu 9.04 virtual appliance on VMware Player. I then > set the IP address, subnet mask and DNS manually. I then tried > accessing a web site using Firefox and got a message that the server > could not be found. I tried accessing my Windows network and got the > message "Unable to mount location. Unable to retrieve share list from > server". I tried using DHCP and still didn't have any luck. The > Ubuntu documentation wasn't any help. > > Don Johnston > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From jan.bakuwel at omiha.com Fri Jun 19 13:23:59 2009 From: jan.bakuwel at omiha.com (Jan Bakuwel) Date: Fri Jun 19 13:24:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> Hi, You might want to try Sun's (soon Oracle's) VirtualBox. Excellent performance also on non-VT hardware. I'm was a long time VMware (GSX, Server 1, Workstation, Player) user but Server 2 was so bad I could hardly believe it and it made me look for alternatives. Now I'm a very happy Xen (server) and VirtualBox (desktop) user. regards, Jan Nevyn wrote: > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tim Toolman wrote: > >> Simple trick, ensure that VT extensions are enabled, if your CPU supports >> it! Big performance difference. >> > > That's the bugger... although I think it's simply "V" in AMD > processors. VT in Intel. While not strictly compatible, they do both > do essentially the same thing. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > From jan.bakuwel at omiha.com Fri Jun 19 13:26:12 2009 From: jan.bakuwel at omiha.com (Jan Bakuwel) Date: Fri Jun 19 13:26:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Using Telecom XT network USB modem with Linux Message-ID: <4A3AE934.8090701@omiha.com> Hi, Does anyone have experience using Telecom's USB modem (MF636) with Linux? Its suitable for Mac/Windows so that means there's hope... :-) regards, Jan From baldwin.bryanmichael at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 20:38:50 2009 From: baldwin.bryanmichael at gmail.com (Bryan Baldwin) Date: Fri Jun 19 20:39:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Using Telecom XT network USB modem with Linux In-Reply-To: <4A3AE934.8090701@omiha.com> References: <4A3AE934.8090701@omiha.com> Message-ID: <1245400730.4131.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> The MF 636 is actually a rebranded ZTE datacard Look here for ideas to get it working -> http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=56125 http://www.zte.co.nz/main/faqs.htm On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 13:26 +1200, Jan Bakuwel wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone have experience using Telecom's USB modem (MF636) with Linux? > Its suitable for Mac/Windows so that means there's hope... :-) > > regards, > Jan > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 20:51:51 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Jun 19 20:52:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Jan Bakuwel wrote: > Hi, > > You might want to try Sun's (soon Oracle's) VirtualBox. Excellent > performance also on non-VT hardware. > > I'm was a long time VMware (GSX, Server 1, Workstation, Player) user but > Server 2 was so bad I could hardly believe it and it made me look for > alternatives. > > Now I'm a very happy Xen (server) and VirtualBox (desktop) user. > > regards, > Jan VirtualBox? really? I sort of see it as an alternative to vmware workstation - i.e. something you're interacting with for a short time but wouldn't really use it as a back end sort of vm solution... From michael.auckland at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 14:48:54 2009 From: michael.auckland at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Sat Jun 20 14:49:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> Message-ID: <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> > VirtualBox? really? I sort of see it as an alternative to vmware > workstation - i.e. something you're interacting with for a short time > but wouldn't really use it as a back end sort of vm solution... > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug VirtualBox gives your higher I/O than any other ( 2-4 times faster than vmware workstation ) + you can use raw disk or lvm volumes with Vbox ( not possible with vmware ) And virtualbox can act as a server , not only as desktop. -- -- Michael From daniel at rimspace.net Sat Jun 20 18:19:27 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Sat Jun 20 18:19:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> (Michael's message of "Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:48:54 +1200") References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87skhvzats.fsf@rimspace.net> Michael writes: >> VirtualBox? really? I sort of see it as an alternative to vmware >> workstation - i.e. something you're interacting with for a short time >> but wouldn't really use it as a back end sort of vm solution... > > VirtualBox gives your higher I/O than any other ( 2-4 times faster than > vmware workstation ) Really? Cool. Have you got a citation for that? > you can use raw disk or lvm volumes with Vbox ( not possible with vmware ) Well, VMWare Server 2 doesn't support that; VMWare Server 1 did. > And virtualbox can act as a server , not only as desktop. I thought that was the xVM system, not VirtualBox itself, which was fairly dependent on having a GUI head attached ? and xVM was not free? Regards, Daniel From leon at messiah.co.nz Mon Jun 22 11:58:41 2009 From: leon at messiah.co.nz (Leon Matthews) Date: Mon Jun 22 13:07:38 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: New Zealand in urgent danger of software patents In-Reply-To: <1245211147.6292.0.camel@studypad> References: <1245211147.6292.0.camel@studypad> Message-ID: <4A3EC931.5070407@messiah.co.nz> Daemonax wrote: > The director of the End Software Patents campaign Ciaran O'Riordan > writes to warn of an imminent threat of software patents in New Zealand: Thanks for the heads up -- software patents are a particularly nasty idea. I've just sent off two copies of my submission (two copies, snail-mail on letterhead) to the Committee Secretariat. I'll copy my submission into this email (minus the LaTeX markup), in case anyone is interested. Cheers, Leon Submission follows: ------------------- Committee Secretariat Commerce Parliament Buildings Wellington To the Patents Bill Committee. On behalf of myself and my company, I oppose the patentability of software ideas on the grounds that they subvert the intent of the patent system, and that similar changes to patent laws elsewhere have proven to suppress, rather than encourage, innovation and technology progress. ?If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today?s ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today? --- Bill Gates Our company is in the business of developing and selling new software ideas. After having seen the effect software patents have had in the USA, I strongly believe that software patents will do nothing but hurt our business. The overseas experience has been dominated by large companies being granted patents for obvious, and sometimes non-original, ideas and using those to suppress competition from smaller players. See `Patent Trolls'. I have always understood that the patent system was invented to encourage innovation by allowing companies to profit from substantial investment in research and development --- new drugs, chemical processes, etc... Software ideas are inherently different from a new drug or chemical plant. They should instead be treated like mathematical ideas, i.e. inherently non-patentable. Yours sincerely, Leon Matthews BSc Technical Director Messiah Ltd. http://messiah.co.nz/ -- Leon Matthews BSc Technical Director, Messiah Ltd. messiah.co.nz | 0800 MESSIAH From boxen_foxen at maddaz.com Mon Jun 22 14:51:49 2009 From: boxen_foxen at maddaz.com (Boxen Foxen) Date: Mon Jun 22 14:52:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community Message-ID: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, First post: it was great to see the incumbent Government remove s92 in it's previous form however I am confident that it will be back, maybe slightly altered or less invasive but still in spirit, the same. If this is the case, what does the New Zealand Open Source Community believe that we as technologists, either amateur or professional, can do on either a case-by-case basis or as an overall approach? If we are going to end up with a digital Witch Hunt based on unsubstantiated accusations, then as users/developers of technology, we need to provide and support solutions that the most targeted, vulnerable and technically-incompetent individuals (the general public) can use in their daily life, developed and released under the GPL. I have long been an advocate of PKI encryption but from personal experience realise it is not a simple point-and-click application. In addition to that, I consistently browse using fully customised Firefox, access my mail via remote webmail, and if per chance I was to download/save any potentially copyrighted material, it would be done outside of my personal information system/sphere onto a mobile device. The people most likely to become unwitting targets of future DCMA/DRM/ad-nauseum actions and/or litigations are those with the least technical skills and competencies. They need our help but I ask the question: as a community what can we do? Should we do anything or just trust that through lobbying on both sides of the political spectrum, ie geeks vs suits that a degree of reasonableness and practicality will prevail? BF -- Boxen Foxen Auckland New Zealand Browser - http://www.mozilla.com Encryption - http://www.gnupg.org Freedom - http://creativefreedom.org.nz Operating System - http://www.debian.org From mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com Mon Jun 22 15:00:39 2009 From: mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com (Colin Coghill) Date: Mon Jun 22 15:00:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6053f80906212000r52ef2b4etb8fb476fc20bd6a3@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Boxen Foxen wrote: > > They need our help but I ask the question: as a community what can we do? > > Should we do anything or just trust that through lobbying on both sides of > the political spectrum, ie geeks vs suits that a degree of reasonableness > and practicality will prevail? > I don't see any reason to believe that reason will prevail :) We can also try to educate people who aren't as deep into tech as we are. Most people have no idea that what they and all their friends are happily doing can (and may) end them in jail or bankrupt. No idea at all. There aren't many areas where sharing things with your friends is so forbidden, so I don't think it's natural for people to think it might be. eg. So letting people know that that "shared" version of Office could end them in jail, and that sorry but they'll have to pay for it or use a more awkward free alternative, would hopefully make people at least aware that they're breaking the law. - Colin From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 18:28:51 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Mon Jun 22 18:29:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920906212328t59018228r7dfbd5b3b7ad7d1d@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, It sounds like to me that if you get us (the newbies) to understand what is needed or not needed in the regulations, you will then only have complete understanding of what is needed. Kevin 2009/6/22 Boxen Foxen > Hi All, > > First post: it was great to see the incumbent Government remove s92 in it's > previous form however I am confident that it will be back, maybe slightly > altered or less invasive but still in spirit, the same. > > If this is the case, what does the New Zealand Open Source Community > believe > that we as technologists, either amateur or professional, can do on either > a > case-by-case basis or as an overall approach? > > If we are going to end up with a digital Witch Hunt based on > unsubstantiated > accusations, then as users/developers of technology, we need to provide and > support solutions that the most targeted, vulnerable and > technically-incompetent individuals (the general public) can use in their > daily life, developed and released under the GPL. > > I have long been an advocate of PKI encryption but from personal experience > realise it is not a simple point-and-click application. In addition to > that, > I consistently browse using fully customised Firefox, access my mail via > remote webmail, and if per chance I was to download/save any potentially > copyrighted material, it would be done outside of my personal information > system/sphere onto a mobile device. > > The people most likely to become unwitting targets of future > DCMA/DRM/ad-nauseum actions and/or litigations are those with the least > technical skills and competencies. > > They need our help but I ask the question: as a community what can we do? > > Should we do anything or just trust that through lobbying on both sides of > the political spectrum, ie geeks vs suits that a degree of reasonableness > and practicality will prevail? > > BF > -- > Boxen Foxen > Auckland New Zealand > Browser - http://www.mozilla.com > Encryption - http://www.gnupg.org > Freedom - http://creativefreedom.org.nz > Operating System - http://www.debian.org > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From michael.auckland at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 19:12:20 2009 From: michael.auckland at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Mon Jun 22 19:12:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <87skhvzats.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> <87skhvzats.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <35207fdf0906220012p7c36fef7m5d73a0adf6d57a94@mail.gmail.com> > Really? ?Cool. ?Have you got a citation for that? I've done a lot of different becnhcmark myself, to find out iwch will be better for client implementation. >> you can use raw disk or lvm volumes with Vbox ( not possible with vmware ) > > Well, VMWare Server 2 doesn't support that; VMWare Server 1 did. NO, only if you use thrird party patches. > I thought that was the xVM system, not VirtualBox itself, which was fairly > dependent on having a GUI head attached ? and xVM was not free? You can run vbox in headless mode ( yes not free, using rdesktop to connect ) but you can run it as a server in xnvc ( as a free solution ) -- -- Michael From djlewis78 at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 20:35:43 2009 From: djlewis78 at gmail.com (Daniel Lewis) Date: Mon Jun 22 20:35:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <35207fdf0906220012p7c36fef7m5d73a0adf6d57a94@mail.gmail.com> References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> <87skhvzats.fsf@rimspace.net> <35207fdf0906220012p7c36fef7m5d73a0adf6d57a94@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <416653940906220135q511b80cer2420c27d80b9038d@mail.gmail.com> Not really vmware vs virtualbox article but it does have its advantages/disadvantages over kvm for those that are interested. Makes an interesting read. dan http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_corei7_virt&num=1 On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Michael wrote: > > Really? Cool. Have you got a citation for that? > > I've done a lot of different becnhcmark myself, to find out iwch will > be better for client implementation. > > >> you can use raw disk or lvm volumes with Vbox ( not possible with vmware > ) > > > > Well, VMWare Server 2 doesn't support that; VMWare Server 1 did. > > NO, only if you use thrird party patches. > > > I thought that was the xVM system, not VirtualBox itself, which was > fairly > > dependent on having a GUI head attached ? and xVM was not free? > > You can run vbox in headless mode ( yes not free, using rdesktop to > connect ) but you can run it as a server in xnvc ( as a free solution > ) > > > -- > -- > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Jun 22 20:45:30 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Jun 22 20:45:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: [NZOSS-Openchat] NZOSS Meetup in Auckland Wednesday 24th June (fwd) Message-ID: FYI. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:13:45 +1200 From: Don To: NZOSS Open Discussion List Subject: Re: [NZOSS-Openchat] NZOSS Meetup in Auckland Wednesday 24th June Hi Confirming my previous notice. I plan to make an exclusive announcement to Auckland based NZOSS members and Free Software advocates about the G2009 and how we can change our government. Please spread the word. If you plan to come, please let me know. Further to this we have a venue (actually 2 venues). If all goes well we will meet at Reb vs Blue, 155 K Road. This venue has not been confirmed yet. If it falls through Open Systems Specialists will host us at their offices. Details of that will follow if necessary. Please pass this invite on to LUGs and other free software groups. Cheers Don On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 15:38 +1200, Don wrote: > Hi > > Quick heads up. I am trying to organise an NZOSS/Free Software "event" > in Auckland for next Wednesday evening. Venue (thinking somewhere > reasonably central) and time (thinking 6pm to late) yet to be confirmed > but if you are interested please put it in your diaries. Talks will need > to be given, drinks will need to be drunk. > > Cheers > Don > -- --------------------------------------- Donald Christie - President New Zealand Open Source Society C/o Catalyst IT Limited Level 6,150-154 Willis Street, PO Box 11-053 Wellington New Zealand Tel:+64 4 4992267 Mob:+64 274 707814 http://nzoss.org.nz ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Openchat mailing list Openchat@lists.nzoss.org.nz http://lists.nzoss.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/openchat From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Jun 22 20:58:06 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Jun 22 20:58:25 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <416653940906220135q511b80cer2420c27d80b9038d@mail.gmail.com> (Daniel Lewis's message of "Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:35:43 +1200") References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> <87skhvzats.fsf@rimspace.net> <35207fdf0906220012p7c36fef7m5d73a0adf6d57a94@mail.gmail.com> <416653940906220135q511b80cer2420c27d80b9038d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8763eo7iht.fsf@rimspace.net> Daniel Lewis writes: > Not really vmware vs virtualbox article but it does have its > advantages/disadvantages over kvm for those that are interested. Makes an > interesting read. > > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_corei7_virt&num=1 Those numbers are incredibly weird: they claim better CPU performance on the SciMark test in a virtual environment than a native one. That ... is extremely unlikely, to put it mildly, and suggests that at least some of the testing is faulty. Regards, Daniel From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Jun 23 00:46:54 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Jun 23 00:47:07 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] [Fwd: Re: [NZOSS-Openchat] NZOSS Meetup in Auckland Wednesday 24th June] Message-ID: <14851.219.88.73.199.1245674814.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [NZOSS-Openchat] NZOSS Meetup in Auckland Wednesday 24th June From: "Don" Date: Mon, June 22, 2009 10:41 pm To: "NZOSS Open Discussion List" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And just to be clearer. If we can start gathering at 6pm for a 6:15 start that would be great. Cheers Don On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 20:13 +1200, Don wrote: > Hi > > Confirming my previous notice. I plan to make an exclusive announcement > to Auckland based NZOSS members and Free Software advocates about the > G2009 and how we can change our government. Please spread the word. If > you plan to come, please let me know. > > Further to this we have a venue (actually 2 venues). > > If all goes well we will meet at Reb vs Blue, 155 K Road. > > This venue has not been confirmed yet. > > If it falls through Open Systems Specialists will host us at their > offices. Details of that will follow if necessary. > > Please pass this invite on to LUGs and other free software groups. > > Cheers > Don > > On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 15:38 +1200, Don wrote: > > Hi > > > > Quick heads up. I am trying to organise an NZOSS/Free Software "event" > > in Auckland for next Wednesday evening. Venue (thinking somewhere > > reasonably central) and time (thinking 6pm to late) yet to be confirmed > > but if you are interested please put it in your diaries. Talks will need > > to be given, drinks will need to be drunk. > > > > Cheers > > Don > > -- --------------------------------------- Donald Christie - President New Zealand Open Source Society C/o Catalyst IT Limited Level 6,150-154 Willis Street, PO Box 11-053 Wellington New Zealand Tel:+64 4 4992267 Mob:+64 274 707814 http://nzoss.org.nz ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Openchat mailing list Openchat@lists.nzoss.org.nz http://lists.nzoss.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/openchat From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 04:35:47 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 23 04:35:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Boxen Foxen wrote: > They need our help but I ask the question: as a community what can we do? Should we do anything at all? I mean, if we're talking about protecting users, then it's really not our, as a community, responsibility. We all have our reasons to object. Some of the big ones being natural justice, lack of proof - accusation only, no way to stop yourself from being disconnected from the net if you are accused. Do we go out and offer users protection for their expensive DRM'ed blue ray discs? No. It's got some pretty hefty DRM which goes against the whole libre and open thing but it's not our responsibility. Why would this be any different? Regards, Nevyn. From boxen_foxen at maddaz.com Tue Jun 23 09:29:59 2009 From: boxen_foxen at maddaz.com (Boxen Foxen) Date: Tue Jun 23 09:37:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <862861130906221429g1965f60ei50a737c636cc7606@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Nevyn wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Boxen Foxen > wrote: > > > They need our help but I ask the question: as a community what can we do? > > > Should we do anything at all? I mean, if we're talking about > protecting users, then it's really not our, as a community, > responsibility. We all have our reasons to object. Some of the big > ones being natural justice, lack of proof - accusation only, no way to > stop yourself from being disconnected from the net if you are accused. > > Do we go out and offer users protection for their expensive DRM'ed > blue ray discs? No. It's got some pretty hefty DRM which goes against > the whole libre and open thing but it's not our responsibility. > > Why would this be any different? > > Regards, > Nevyn. Nevyn: Fair point. It is not our responsibility per se as A). We are self-motivated technologists not privacy advocates and B). As people living in a relatively "free democracy" they (the public) have the right (not legal right) and therefore the attendant responsibility to do what ever they see fit to do. Which includes drinking 20 beers, driving fast, swearing in public and of course downloading movies from tmz.com ... however I would caution in allowing the ignorance and non-awareness of the public in relation to the entire digital content/rights spectrum, as tacit endorsement that any future breaches are their sole responsibility. Those that have a greater knowledge, awareness and more importantly the capacity to act must undertake and drive change on behalf of those who do not. This might sound high and mighty yet if this underlying precept is not acknowledged and endorsed by us (geeks) as a community, then some may ask and rightly so ... why do we "geeks" do what we do? If it is not to drive change, to undermine proprietry technological monopolies, to create functionality beyond the norm, to develop human knowledge and experential capacity beyond mere profit, then why do we bother? If we do this solely for the sake of doing this, then we are nothing more than tinkerers and semi-self serving "fringe dwellers" and we might as well play with motorcycles and model trains (No offence to those hobbyists who enjoy motorbikes and trains). I am with Colin: education, awareness campaigns but in simple language with specific targetting to both demographic and activity. Clearly we should not duplicate the efforts of the Creative Freedom Foundation in addressing digital rights but we could develop our own take and submit/release through them or work in direct cooperation. Of course many "geeks" will not share this same interest and motivation which is great, I respect them for their more hardline technology purism. On the other hand technology is really a solution, albeit technical and oft complex to what is basically human problems. If technology does not reflect the real desires, practicalities and concerns of all humans then it is forever destined to be mediocre 'ware at best. What can we do? Over to the quorum ... As an aside I just finished reading Laurence Lessig's *"**Free culture : how big media uses technology and the law to lock down culture and control creativity.**"* ... a very good read and it explains the underpinning history and motivation behind s92 et alia. From boxen_foxen at maddaz.com Tue Jun 23 09:39:51 2009 From: boxen_foxen at maddaz.com (Boxen Foxen) Date: Tue Jun 23 09:40:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] [Fwd: Re: [NZOSS-Openchat] NZOSS Meetup in Auckland Wednesday 24th June] In-Reply-To: <14851.219.88.73.199.1245674814.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> References: <14851.219.88.73.199.1245674814.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Message-ID: <862861130906221439y38078224xe5854d4279c0c3ce@mail.gmail.com> I plan to attend. Will you be doing a final confirmation of venue/timings/cost either today or tomorrow? On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: Re: [NZOSS-Openchat] NZOSS Meetup in Auckland Wednesday 24th June > From: "Don" > Date: Mon, June 22, 2009 10:41 pm > To: "NZOSS Open Discussion List" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > And just to be clearer. If we can start gathering at 6pm for a 6:15 > start that would be great. > > Cheers > Don > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jun 23 11:09:49 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Jun 23 11:09:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Desktop VM's, tested on merits Message-ID: <307300.67366.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hosted virtualisation suites: a group test : http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/os/0,1000001098,39666200,00.htm From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 11:40:56 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 23 11:41:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: <862861130906221429g1965f60ei50a737c636cc7606@mail.gmail.com> References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> <862861130906221429g1965f60ei50a737c636cc7606@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Boxen Foxen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Nevyn wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Boxen Foxen >> wrote: >> >> > They need our help but I ask the question: as a community what can we do? >> >> >> Should we do anything at all? I mean, if we're talking about >> protecting users, then it's really not our, as a community, >> responsibility. We all have our reasons to object. Some of the big >> ones being natural justice, lack of proof - accusation only, no way to >> stop yourself from being disconnected from the net if you are accused. >> >> Do we go out and offer users protection for their expensive DRM'ed >> blue ray discs? No. It's got some pretty hefty DRM which goes against >> the whole libre and open thing but it's not our responsibility. >> >> Why would this be any different? >> >> Regards, >> Nevyn. > > bother? If we do this solely for the sake of doing this, then we are nothing > more than tinkerers and semi-self serving "fringe dwellers" and we might as > well play with motorcycles and model trains (No offence to those hobbyists > who enjoy motorbikes and trains). Hi Boxen :) Chances are those enthusiaists say the same of us - if you're not going to share the knowledge, then you might as well be playing with computers all day. But back to the point. Where I understand and respect your position, I can not say, with any truth, that I started using Linux for the betterment of others. I decided to tinker, had heard good things decided to give it a go, gave up, gave it another go etc. etc. It wasn't until Redhat 7.3 came out that I found myself using Linux reasonably comfortably. However, being a geek has had me not on a soapbox, but in the fringe - using Linux to give me that constant learning that I so crave. The decision was all about me. Even me being on the list and dedicating so much of my day to it, is about me. I like to help people and so will if asked. I might esven go as far as to offer some help. What I won't do is to try and point people to a problem which they don't percieve as a problem. I may mention it and if they don't want to know, I've never tried to force it on them. This for me is one of those subjects. If someone says something about their DVD's not playing in Linux, I'll offer ways of getting it going and explain the issue - DRM and how it's getting worse and how it's related to their continued internet presense. > Of course many "geeks" will not share this same interest and motivation > which is great, I respect them for their more hardline technology purism. On > the other hand technology is really a solution, albeit technical and oft > complex to what is basically human problems. If technology does not reflect > the real desires, practicalities and concerns of all humans then it is > forever destined to be mediocre 'ware at best. > > What can we do? > > Over to the quorum ... In saying all of that though - perhaps we should be offering a resource or something that people can refer to when trying to explain the issue. Something fairly short, in plain english and emphasising the effects (sort of like marketing the benefits rather than the features - "saves you time!" as opposed to "boot's faster") with links to more detailed information. I'm all about education and information etc. I'm just not into trying to push my views on others. As for reflecting the real desires, practicalities and concerns of all humans - I don't think computers do. For something that's a tool, it's a very inefficient one at best. The number of people who will say something along the lines of "I thought computers were supposed to make life easier" is astounding. Whether this is a percieved difficulty or real difficulty is inmaterial. So in terms of making computers fit users, perhaps a new paradigm is needed. Instead of the "here's a button, press it and it brings up a whole lot of links to applications - click on adobe acrobat reader (or whatever) to view pdfs" we should be more task orientated i.e. "View document". That would mean that we'd only need a couple of links and a sub directory structure for links might not even be needed. Perhaps in order to make computers less about computers and more about doing tasks we need to start thinking less like computer people. Regards, Nevyn. From boxen_foxen at maddaz.com Tue Jun 23 12:45:43 2009 From: boxen_foxen at maddaz.com (Boxen Foxen) Date: Tue Jun 23 12:46:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Home Network with Mixed O/S Clients Message-ID: <862861130906221745q71163d14y7ebf1284ec6a7c06@mail.gmail.com> I have been piqued by the good reports that some have had with VirtualBox. The only experience I have had with any type of Hypervisor was using Xen to run WINXPSP2 clients on Gentoo ... that was painful. What would be the minimum spec based on people's experience to run a headless VirtualBox server to connect using either Windows Vista and MACOSX clients? I work in an all MACOSX workplace and I want to access all the work apps but use my own Deb desktop. The Deb desktop is an Athlon AMD64 3.2 about 2 years old with 2GB RAM, will this be good enough to host non-GNU/Linux clients? Thanks, BF. -- Boxen Foxen Auckland New Zealand ------------------------------- Browser - http://www.mozilla.com Encryption - http://www.gnupg.org Freedom - http://creativefreedom.org.nz Operating System - http://www.debian.org From emailingcarl at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 21:58:14 2009 From: emailingcarl at gmail.com (Carl Wells) Date: Tue Jun 23 21:58:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] eee help Message-ID: <557c2f4f0906230258jeccb845q8c524494cff0ecd@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I joined this list to find out if anyone can point me to a linux doctor for my eeePC which just unexeptedly started crashing at the start of the boot process. I'm not a linux guru, just a user who knows he needs some pro help - willing to pay. (I actually have 2 eees now which are broken :( If anyone knows who I should get in touch with please let me know! cheers -carl From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 22:06:08 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Jun 23 22:06:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] eee help In-Reply-To: <557c2f4f0906230258jeccb845q8c524494cff0ecd@mail.gmail.com> References: <557c2f4f0906230258jeccb845q8c524494cff0ecd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906230306i6bd2c1d8qef4cceca8dc654d8@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/23 Carl Wells : > Hello, > I joined this list to find out if anyone can point me to a linux > doctor for my eeePC which just unexeptedly started crashing at the > start of the boot process. ?I'm not a linux guru, just a user who > knows he needs some pro help - willing to pay. ?(I actually have 2 > eees now which are broken :( > > If anyone knows who I should get in touch with please let me know! hi carl, i'm sure there are plenty here who are willing to help. can you start off with a bit more info: in what way does it crash? are there any error messages/anything unusual on the screen (such as text in red)? what's the last thing you see on the screen before it crashes? have you had it working previously? can you think of anything you might have done to cause it to not work? rob From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jun 24 10:38:08 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Jun 24 10:38:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] RE: eee help Message-ID: <39600.52010.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Would be glad to help Couple of questions: * What model? 701 or 900-series? spec? * how attached are you to the data on that system? IOW, can we scratch the OS & load on a new one? * can you get hold of an SD card @ DSE to store any valuable data & your /home partition on. Try & get your hands on a couple of smallish (2GB) USB flash-drives to load on alternatives for testing * take a look around a bit for a distro of your choice: standard Ubuntu 9.04 NBR, eeeBunutu, opengeeeu, or are you feeling adventurous & want to take moblin2 for a spin? I'll be @ the NZOSS meeting tonight (@ RvB), if you want to get a few distro's from me - J From robin.paulson at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 13:59:43 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Thu Jun 25 13:59:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] scanner firmware upload problems Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906241859q365f562agb5e4721df5167d19@mail.gmail.com> hi, i'm looking for some advice for a scanner i'm trying to get working under ubuntu. the scanner in question is a vuego 6678-1vu. it's supported by sane, with the snapscan backend, but requires a firmware upload when it is initialized. sane can handle this no problem, except it needs the firmware to be specified manually. i have 6 firmware contenders, on my windows box, but i don't know which one the windows driver is using. i'm concerned if i tell it to upload the wring firmware, unwanted consequences will occur, so i'd like to get it right first time. any suggestions? is there any way in windows, to tell which firmware it's using? cheers From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 22:57:55 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 25 22:58:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting Message-ID: Hi everyone, We haven't really had a talk yet about the next AuckLUG meeting. So... first we need a speaker or speakers and next we need a venue. So for the speakers - there was a lot of interest in virtualisation at the last meeting and I reckon this would be a good topic for the next meeting. I'm thinking we stick to the idea that we have several speakers talking about their chosen platform so do we have any volunteers? Also, a talk about what's in the kernel in aid of virtualisation - I can probably do the research on this over the next week if no one wants to run with this side of things. As for the venue - if we can't find an alternative, we can probably use RVB. I'll give them a call next week about it. The venue isn't bad for a meeting (the beer is definitely a bonus) but because it's sort of open you do get a fair amount of distraction from people using the gaming facilities. So if we have an alternative, I think the alternative is probably a good thing. It's always good having options. Thoughts? Opinions? Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 23:07:11 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 25 23:07:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> <862861130906221429g1965f60ei50a737c636cc7606@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Nevyn wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Boxen Foxen wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Nevyn wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Boxen Foxen >>> wrote: >>> >>> > They need our help but I ask the question: as a community what can we do? >>> >>> >>> Should we do anything at all? I mean, if we're talking about >>> protecting users, then it's really not our, as a community, >>> responsibility. We all have our reasons to object. Some of the big >>> ones being natural justice, lack of proof - accusation only, no way to >>> stop yourself from being disconnected from the net if you are accused. >>> >>> Do we go out and offer users protection for their expensive DRM'ed >>> blue ray discs? No. It's got some pretty hefty DRM which goes against >>> the whole libre and open thing but it's not our responsibility. >>> >>> Why would this be any different? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nevyn. >> > >> bother? If we do this solely for the sake of doing this, then we are nothing >> more than tinkerers and semi-self serving "fringe dwellers" and we might as >> well play with motorcycles and model trains (No offence to those hobbyists >> who enjoy motorbikes and trains). > > > Hi Boxen :) Chances are those enthusiaists say the same of us - if > you're not going to share the knowledge, then you might as well be > playing with computers all day. > > But back to the point. Where I understand and respect your position, I > can not say, with any truth, that I started using Linux for the > betterment of others. I decided to tinker, had heard good things > decided to give it a go, gave up, gave it another go etc. etc. It > wasn't until Redhat 7.3 came out that I found myself using Linux > reasonably comfortably. However, being a geek has had me not on a > soapbox, but in the fringe - using Linux to give me that constant > learning that I so crave. The decision was all about me. > > Even me being on the list and dedicating so much of my day to it, is > about me. I like to help people and so will if asked. I might esven go > as far as to offer some help. What I won't do is to try and point > people to a problem which they don't percieve as a problem. I may > mention it and if they don't want to know, I've never tried to force > it on them. This for me is one of those subjects. If someone says > something about their DVD's not playing in Linux, I'll offer ways of > getting it going and explain the issue - DRM and how it's getting > worse and how it's related to their continued internet presense. > > >> Of course many "geeks" will not share this same interest and motivation >> which is great, I respect them for their more hardline technology purism. On >> the other hand technology is really a solution, albeit technical and oft >> complex to what is basically human problems. If technology does not reflect >> the real desires, practicalities and concerns of all humans then it is >> forever destined to be mediocre 'ware at best. >> >> What can we do? >> >> Over to the quorum ... > > > In saying all of that though - perhaps we should be offering a > resource or something that people can refer to when trying to explain > the issue. Something fairly short, in plain english and emphasising > the effects (sort of like marketing the benefits rather than the > features - "saves you time!" as opposed to "boot's faster") with links > to more detailed information. I'm all about education and information > etc. I'm just not into trying to push my views on others. > > As for reflecting the real desires, practicalities and concerns of all > humans - I don't think computers do. For something that's a tool, it's > a very inefficient one at best. The number of people who will say > something along the lines of "I thought computers were supposed to > make life easier" is astounding. Whether this is a percieved > difficulty or real difficulty is inmaterial. So in terms of making > computers fit users, perhaps a new paradigm is needed. Instead of the > "here's a button, press it and it brings up a whole lot of links to > applications - click on adobe acrobat reader (or whatever) to view > pdfs" we should be more task orientated i.e. "View document". That > would mean that we'd only need a couple of links and a sub directory > structure for links might not even be needed. Perhaps in order to make > computers less about computers and more about doing tasks we need to > start thinking less like computer people. > > Regards, > Nevyn. Just a note before this thread dies a slow death... Sorry Boxen - my intention was never to kill the thread but more to get you to clarify your position. What do you think we should be doing in order to help those less computer literate people out there? At the NZOSS meeting there was some mention about the lack of computer literacy in NZ. Things that we take for granted, others don't. And as the issues will effect them, as well as ourselves, and it's in our best interests to make these issues known. In which case, what can we do to make these issues known? I'll be doing a quick summary of the NZOSS meeting at some point soon - this will allow others to fill in any gaps that I leave. It's not directly Linux related, but some of the projects that the NZOSS are working on at the moment are quite exciting. It's probably a better platform for these issue. I've always sort of wanted abit more cross-posts about what they're up to. Given that their focus is quite different from just Linux, what they're doing can effect us and I think both groups would be better off for a bit of cross-pollinisation. Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 23:15:23 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 25 23:15:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] scanner firmware upload problems In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906241859q365f562agb5e4721df5167d19@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770906241859q365f562agb5e4721df5167d19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > hi, > i'm looking for some advice for a scanner i'm trying to get working > under ubuntu. the scanner in question is a vuego 6678-1vu. it's > supported by sane, with the snapscan backend, but requires a firmware > upload when it is initialized. > > sane can handle this no problem, except it needs the firmware to be > specified manually. i have 6 firmware contenders, on my windows box, > but i don't know which one the windows driver is using. i'm concerned > if i tell it to upload the wring firmware, unwanted consequences will > occur, so i'd like to get it right first time. any suggestions? > > is there any way in windows, to tell which firmware it's using? > > cheers Does it really matter? If the firmware is uploaded with it's initialised, then all you'd need to do is go with the most recent firmware, check if it's working - if it's not - de-initialise the scanner (reboot? turn the scanner off and on?) and try again with the next lot of firmware. Assuming Windows has to do the same thing (not sure what the deal is here) then you lose nothing by trying different firmwares. Regards, Nevyn. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 23:19:51 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Thu Jun 25 23:22:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] scanner firmware upload problems In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770906241859q365f562agb5e4721df5167d19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906250419x58aef75el6d28711987ff4c5f@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/25 Nevyn : > Does it really matter? > > If the firmware is uploaded with it's initialised, then all you'd need > to do is go with the most recent firmware, check if it's working - if > it's not - de-initialise the scanner (reboot? turn the scanner off and > on?) and try again with the next lot of firmware. Assuming Windows has > to do the same thing (not sure what the deal is here) then you lose > nothing by trying different firmwares. it had crossed my mind to do that - problem was, i was wary of any possible negative effects of uploading the wrong firmware. if you don't think it can cause any problems/damage, etc. then i'll give it a try cheers rob From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 23:23:56 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 25 23:24:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] scanner firmware upload problems In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770906241859q365f562agb5e4721df5167d19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Nevyn wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: >> hi, >> i'm looking for some advice for a scanner i'm trying to get working >> under ubuntu. the scanner in question is a vuego 6678-1vu. it's >> supported by sane, with the snapscan backend, but requires a firmware >> upload when it is initialized. >> >> sane can handle this no problem, except it needs the firmware to be >> specified manually. i have 6 firmware contenders, on my windows box, >> but i don't know which one the windows driver is using. i'm concerned >> if i tell it to upload the wring firmware, unwanted consequences will >> occur, so i'd like to get it right first time. any suggestions? >> >> is there any way in windows, to tell which firmware it's using? >> >> cheers > > Does it really matter? > > If the firmware is uploaded with it's initialised, then all you'd need > to do is go with the most recent firmware, check if it's working - if > it's not - de-initialise the scanner (reboot? turn the scanner off and > on?) and try again with the next lot of firmware. Assuming Windows has > to do the same thing (not sure what the deal is here) then you lose > nothing by trying different firmwares. > > Regards, > Nevyn. Also... I can't seem to find that scanner in the sane list of supported devices. Can you offer any more details on it? From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 23:25:03 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Jun 25 23:25:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] scanner firmware upload problems In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906250419x58aef75el6d28711987ff4c5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770906241859q365f562agb5e4721df5167d19@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770906250419x58aef75el6d28711987ff4c5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > 2009/6/25 Nevyn : >> Does it really matter? >> >> If the firmware is uploaded with it's initialised, then all you'd need >> to do is go with the most recent firmware, check if it's working - if >> it's not - de-initialise the scanner (reboot? turn the scanner off and >> on?) and try again with the next lot of firmware. Assuming Windows has >> to do the same thing (not sure what the deal is here) then you lose >> nothing by trying different firmwares. > > it had crossed my mind to do that - problem was, i was wary of any > possible negative effects of uploading the wrong firmware. > > if you don't think it can cause any problems/damage, etc. then i'll > give it a try > > cheers > > rob Yeah... about that... I'm not taking any responsibility for it... From robin.paulson at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 23:40:19 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Thu Jun 25 23:40:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] scanner firmware upload problems In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770906241859q365f562agb5e4721df5167d19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906250440s759fe154pd36bbce6ce1d9f34@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/25 Nevyn : > Also... I can't seem to find that scanner in the sane list of > supported devices. Can you offer any more details on it? sure. vuego is aka benq is aka acer it's a re-badged acer 3300u/4300u i got the driver off the benq uk website, and there are 9 options for the firmware lsusb gave me the name, but there's nothing i can see which correlates to the numbers in the firmware names Bus 002 Device 002: ID 04a5:20b0 Acer Peripherals Inc. (now BenQ Corp.) S2W 3300U/4300U Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 1.00 bDeviceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class bDeviceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass bDeviceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol bMaxPacketSize0 8 idVendor 0x04a5 Acer Peripherals Inc. (now BenQ Corp.) idProduct 0x20b0 S2W 3300U/4300U bcdDevice 1.00 iManufacturer 1 Color iProduct 2 FlatbedScanner 22 iSerial 0 bNumConfigurations 1 Configuration Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 2 wTotalLength 39 bNumInterfaces 1 bConfigurationValue 1 iConfiguration 0 bmAttributes 0x40 (Missing must-be-set bit!) Self Powered MaxPower 100mA Interface Descriptor: bLength 9 bDescriptorType 4 bInterfaceNumber 0 bAlternateSetting 0 bNumEndpoints 3 bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class bInterfaceSubClass 255 Vendor Specific Subclass bInterfaceProtocol 255 Vendor Specific Protocol iInterface 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN bmAttributes 2 Transfer Type Bulk Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes bInterval 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x02 EP 2 OUT bmAttributes 2 Transfer Type Bulk Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0008 1x 8 bytes bInterval 0 Endpoint Descriptor: bLength 7 bDescriptorType 5 bEndpointAddress 0x83 EP 3 IN bmAttributes 3 Transfer Type Interrupt Synch Type None Usage Type Data wMaxPacketSize 0x0008 1x 8 bytes bInterval 16 Device Status: 0x0001 Self Powered From boxen_foxen at maddaz.com Fri Jun 26 08:23:47 2009 From: boxen_foxen at maddaz.com (Boxen Foxen) Date: Fri Jun 26 08:23:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> <862861130906221429g1965f60ei50a737c636cc7606@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <862861130906251323ic908a31udc26fc61d925b077@mail.gmail.com> Hey, no matter, was busy this week. After reviewing my soapbox thread this week, I must pick a simple goal and I think you have nailed it ... computer literacy in NZ or lack thereof. Before we can address this, I guess we would have to take a good look around at what is already in existence, then see where we feel our strengths lie then develop/implement something. Given the governments' recent decision to reduce if not terminate funding, for "hobby" courses in community education centres, the basic non-school based Computer Literacy instruction is going to take a massive hit ... which will only reinforce the issue. Not sure though if we need/should/could address issues within the NZ education system, comments anyone? Guess we should wait to see your comments on the NZOSS meeting and perhaps at the next AUCKLUG meeting we could address this at least to see if there is interest or some degree of a direction. Maybe a definition of what "computer literacy" really means, with perhaps some official stats on current state of play in NZ ... if anyone has specialist knowledge, please jump in. In the meantime, I can make a list of community based computer resources (Auckland); hardware, courses, venues etc. If anyone has knowledge of stuff, please forward to my address, when compiled I will cc Nevyn. Need to not be Auckland-centric btw. I like the idea of cross pollinisation ... always good to seek views outside your own immediate remit. Would it be possible to make a list or weekly email, with quick spiels on what is going on in both the AUCKLUG/NZOSS and distribute this to subscribers of both, or have it available, bit like a dual-group announce? Don't know who would compile this or be responsible for content but that could be addressed between the 2 groups. Cheers BF. Just a note before this thread dies a slow death... Sorry Boxen - my > intention was never to kill the thread but more to get you to clarify > your position. What do you think we should be doing in order to help > those less computer literate people out there? > > At the NZOSS meeting there was some mention about the lack of computer > literacy in NZ. Things that we take for granted, others don't. And as > the issues will effect them, as well as ourselves, and it's in our > best interests to make these issues known. In which case, what can we > do to make these issues known? > > I'll be doing a quick summary of the NZOSS meeting at some point soon > - this will allow others to fill in any gaps that I leave. It's not > directly Linux related, but some of the projects that the NZOSS are > working on at the moment are quite exciting. It's probably a better > platform for these issue. I've always sort of wanted abit more > cross-posts about what they're up to. Given that their focus is quite > different from just Linux, what they're doing can effect us and I > think both groups would be better off for a bit of > cross-pollinisation. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > From boxen_foxen at maddaz.com Fri Jun 26 08:27:02 2009 From: boxen_foxen at maddaz.com (Boxen Foxen) Date: Fri Jun 26 08:27:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Creative Freedom and The Open Source Community In-Reply-To: References: <862861130906211951u55478f11xe6b4be086128f03c@mail.gmail.com> <862861130906221429g1965f60ei50a737c636cc7606@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <862861130906251327t60a4d807g30c6aac0162a9f5f@mail.gmail.com> > > Just a note before this thread dies a slow death... Sorry Boxen - my > intention was never to kill the thread but more to get you to clarify > your position. What do you think we should be doing in order to help > those less computer literate people out there? > > At the NZOSS meeting there was some mention about the lack of computer > literacy in NZ. Things that we take for granted, others don't. And as > the issues will effect them, as well as ourselves, and it's in our > best interests to make these issues known. In which case, what can we > do to make these issues known? > > I'll be doing a quick summary of the NZOSS meeting at some point soon > - this will allow others to fill in any gaps that I leave. It's not > directly Linux related, but some of the projects that the NZOSS are > working on at the moment are quite exciting. It's probably a better > platform for these issue. I've always sort of wanted abit more > cross-posts about what they're up to. Given that their focus is quite > different from just Linux, what they're doing can effect us and I > think both groups would be better off for a bit of > cross-pollinisation. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > Just as an add-on ... not just computer literacy but information literacy ... privacy, personal info security, living in the digital age, access to information etc ... just a thought ... more to "computers" than File Open. From tobias.gerschner at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 09:19:56 2009 From: tobias.gerschner at gmail.com (Tobias Gerschner) Date: Fri Jun 26 09:20:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting Message-ID: > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:57:55 +1200 > From: Nevyn > Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi everyone, > > We haven't really had a talk yet about the next AuckLUG meeting. > > So... first we need a speaker or speakers and next we need a venue. I am happy to do a live presentation of Xen and VirtualBox. What would be of interest ? Installation , configuration , certain use cases ? What combination of host / guest OS would be of interest ? > So for the speakers - there was a lot of interest in virtualisation at > the last meeting and I reckon this would be a good topic for the next > meeting. I'm thinking we stick to the idea that we have several > speakers talking about their chosen platform so do we have any > volunteers? Also, a talk about what's in the kernel in aid of > virtualisation - I can probably do the research on this over the next > week if no one wants to run with this side of things. > I'd be really happy to see something hands on about KVM. > As for the venue - if we can't find an alternative, we can probably > use RVB. I'll give them a call next week about it. The venue isn't bad > for a meeting (the beer is definitely a bonus) but because it's sort > of open you do get a fair amount of distraction from people using the > gaming facilities. So if we have an alternative, I think the > alternative is probably a good thing. It's always good having options. > > Thoughts? Opinions? > > Regards, > Nevyn. > Depending on the number of expected participants I can offer the NATCOM boardroom at 39 Market Place near Viaduct for this particular meeting. It's the building were NOVELL used to be. The new boardroom is slightly smaller so it would only suit if we're approx 10. regards -- Tobias Gerschner Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. From nardusg at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 12:19:24 2009 From: nardusg at gmail.com (Nardus Geldenhuys) Date: Fri Jun 26 12:19:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Looking for work after company has been taken over Message-ID: <778465350906251719y2c06c64ai36d581d12030a93b@mail.gmail.com> Hi People I know this is not the right place to do my job hunting. But I know that the men and woman on these forums got there fingers on the pulse of all things linux/unix and might be able to point or help me in the right direction. The company I worked for were acquired by a company in Wellington. They did not take the staff on :( So that left me high and dry and looking for a knew challenge ... Let me give you a short description of who I am and what I do: "I?m an energetic and performance driven person and the best environment for me to work in would be team based, with open and supportive colleagues. I?m focused on delivering exceptional results and high-quality service, which requires dedication and hard work. I have a New Zealand Work Permit and a Work Visa which allows me to work in any position in the Information Technology Sector, immediately. I have over 12 years worth of experience as a Systems Administrator and Network Engineering and specialise in Linux/ UNIX. I have letters of recommendation from all my previous employers, copies can be supplied upon request. I would prefer a permanent or contract position." I am able to forward my CV to anybody that is interested in either .odt or .doc format. Hope to hear soon from you. Regards Nardus Geldenhuys From juanvr at live.com Fri Jun 26 12:42:00 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan .) Date: Fri Jun 26 12:42:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Looking for work after company has been taken over In-Reply-To: <778465350906251719y2c06c64ai36d581d12030a93b@mail.gmail.com> References: <778465350906251719y2c06c64ai36d581d12030a93b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hear Nardus... Good luck... > From: nardusg@gmail.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:19:24 +1200 > To: nzlug@linux.net.nz; aucklug@linux.net.nz > Subject: [AuckLUG] Looking for work after company has been taken over > > Hi People > > I know this is not the right place to do my job hunting. But I know that the > men and woman on these forums got there fingers on the pulse of all things > linux/unix and might be able to point or help me in the right direction. > > The company I worked for were acquired by a company in Wellington. They > did not take the staff on :( So that left me high and dry and looking for a > knew challenge ... > > Let me give you a short description of who I am and what I do: > > "I?m an energetic and performance driven person and the best environment for > me to work in would be team based, with open and supportive colleagues. I?m > focused on delivering exceptional results and high-quality service, which > requires dedication and hard work. > > I have a New Zealand Work Permit and a Work Visa which allows me to work in > any position in the Information Technology Sector, immediately. > > I have over 12 years worth of experience as a Systems Administrator and > Network Engineering and specialise in Linux/ UNIX. > > I have letters of recommendation from all my previous employers, copies can > be supplied upon request. > > I would prefer a permanent or contract position." > > I am able to forward my CV to anybody that is interested in either .odt or > .doc format. > > Hope to hear soon from you. > > Regards > > Nardus Geldenhuys > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug _________________________________________________________________ Brrr... its getting cold out there Find someone to snuggle up with http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fdating%2Enz%2Emsn%2Ecom%2Fchannel%2Findex%2Easpx%3Ftrackingid%3D1048628&_t=773568480&_r=nzWINDOWSliveMAILemailTAGLINES&_m=EXT From boxen_foxen at maddaz.com Fri Jun 26 16:19:30 2009 From: boxen_foxen at maddaz.com (Boxen Foxen) Date: Fri Jun 26 16:19:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <862861130906252119v4886339eu39217172ee88a8fd@mail.gmail.com> > > Hi everyone, > > > > We haven't really had a talk yet about the next AuckLUG meeting. > > > > So... first we need a speaker or speakers and next we need a venue. > > I am happy to do a live presentation of Xen and VirtualBox. > > What would be of interest ? > > Installation , configuration , certain use cases ? What combination of > host / guest OS would be of interest ? > > How about a Fedora/Debian/SUSE host running a MACOSX guest with full office > suite installed ... if it is doable? > > > So for the speakers - there was a lot of interest in virtualisation at > > the last meeting and I reckon this would be a good topic for the next > > meeting. I'm thinking we stick to the idea that we have several > > speakers talking about their chosen platform so do we have any > > volunteers? Also, a talk about what's in the kernel in aid of > > virtualisation - I can probably do the research on this over the next > > week if no one wants to run with this side of things. > > > > I'd be really happy to see something hands on about KVM. > > > > As for the venue - if we can't find an alternative, we can probably > > use RVB. I'll give them a call next week about it. The venue isn't bad > > for a meeting (the beer is definitely a bonus) but because it's sort > > of open you do get a fair amount of distraction from people using the > > gaming facilities. So if we have an alternative, I think the > > alternative is probably a good thing. It's always good having options. > > > > Thoughts? Opinions? > > > > Regards, > > Nevyn. > > > > Depending on the number of expected participants I can offer the > NATCOM boardroom at 39 Market Place near Viaduct for this particular > meeting. It's the building were NOVELL used to be. > > The new boardroom is slightly smaller so it would only suit if we're approx > 10. > > regards ... so you need to set a date, then call for numbers ... if next week i will come, else down south for a while. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 22:05:54 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Jun 26 22:06:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: <862861130906252119v4886339eu39217172ee88a8fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <862861130906252119v4886339eu39217172ee88a8fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Boxen Foxen wrote: >> >> ? Hi everyone, >> > >> > We haven't really had a talk yet about the next AuckLUG meeting. >> > >> > So... first we need a speaker or speakers and next we need a venue. >> >> I am happy to do a live presentation of Xen and VirtualBox. >> >> What would be of interest ? >> >> Installation , configuration , certain use cases ? What combination of >> host / guest OS would be of interest ? >> >> How about a Fedora/Debian/SUSE host running a MACOSX guest with full office >> suite installed ... if it is doable? >> >> > So for the speakers - there was a lot of interest in virtualisation at >> > the last meeting and I reckon this would be a good topic for the next >> > meeting. I'm thinking we stick to the idea that we have several >> > speakers talking about their chosen platform so do we have any >> > volunteers? Also, a talk about what's in the kernel in aid of >> > virtualisation - I can probably do the research on this over the next >> > week if no one wants to run with this side of things. >> > >> >> I'd be really happy to see something hands on about KVM. >> >> >> > As for the venue - if we can't find an alternative, we can probably >> > use RVB. I'll give them a call next week about it. The venue isn't bad >> > for a meeting (the beer is definitely a bonus) but because it's sort >> > of open you do get a fair amount of distraction from people using the >> > gaming facilities. So if we have an alternative, I think the >> > alternative is probably a good thing. It's always good having options. >> > >> > Thoughts? Opinions? >> > >> > Regards, >> > Nevyn. >> > >> >> Depending on the number of expected participants I can offer the >> NATCOM boardroom at 39 Market Place near Viaduct for this particular >> meeting. It's the building were NOVELL used to be. >> >> The new boardroom is slightly smaller so it would only suit if we're approx >> 10. >> >> regards > > > ... so you need to set a date, then call for numbers ... if next week i will > come, else down south for a while. Hi Boxen, The date is almost always set. It's the first Monday of the month - so the 6th of July. Time - it's normally 7. As for the rest - it all has to be organised. We've recently lost a venue so we're sort of floating again. Last month was a pub. I think there's a place for pub meetings (say every 6 months or so) but otherwise, it's nice to have something structured so that people can decide if they're interested in a subject or not. We've had a couple of volunteers for various VM technologies so far. I'll spend a bit of time this weekend going over the offers and seeing where we have overlaps. I'll do some research on kernel specific virtualisation stuff (because there's all sorts of interesting stuff in the kernel nowadays - huge contrast to Minix). Hopefully between a few of us we can come up with something comprehensive and a fair look at the various technologies. Which ones have to have VT or what you lose from not having VT etc. Regards, Nevyn. From srdan.dukic at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 08:51:05 2009 From: srdan.dukic at gmail.com (Srdan Dukic) Date: Sat Jun 27 08:51:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c2ae0690906261351n2988a16and95e526480ebbb44@mail.gmail.com> > I am happy to do a live presentation of Xen and VirtualBox. > > What would be of interest ? > I would be very interested in seeing a demonstration of Xen "live migration" i.e. setting up two Xen hosts and moving a machine from one to the other without stopping the VM. If you could set up a MySQL server VM and write to the database as it's being migrated that would be really cool. > > Installation , configuration , certain use cases ? What combination of > host / guest OS would be of interest ? > I'd be really happy to see something hands on about KVM. > I'd also like to learn more about KVM, as it's the virtualization technology adopted by RedHat and Ubuntu (I think?), but is relatively new to me. A demonstration of "live migration" using KVM would also be great. > > > > As for the venue - if we can't find an alternative, we can probably > > use RVB. I'll give them a call next week about it. The venue isn't bad > > for a meeting (the beer is definitely a bonus) but because it's sort > > of open you do get a fair amount of distraction from people using the > > gaming facilities. So if we have an alternative, I think the > > alternative is probably a good thing. It's always good having options. > > > > Thoughts? Opinions? > > > > Regards, > > Nevyn. > > > > Depending on the number of expected participants I can offer the > NATCOM boardroom at 39 Market Place near Viaduct for this particular > meeting. It's the building were NOVELL used to be. > > The new boardroom is slightly smaller so it would only suit if we're approx > 10. > > regards > > -- > Tobias Gerschner > Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com > > Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Sr?an ?uki? From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jun 29 10:19:26 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Jun 29 10:19:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Next meeting Message-ID: <659124.4663.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mon 6th Jul, 19:00 sounds good to me. Deshan @ RvB said that he's pretty happy to host any of our events (we've had NZOSS & NZISIG there too), as he's making his tom from the drinks. I'm aware that it's not always the most ideal of venues (we've still to use the backrooms w projectors), but it's great having a de-facto fall-back venue, if all else fails, as I've a standing arrangement with him (and, no, I don't get a commission from him) OK, down to biz. I have a MacBook Pro (Santa Rosa 3,1), running the latest Jaunty 9.04 64-bit (pretty stable), and I have both KVM & VirtualBox installed (switch between the two by tweaking my /etc/rc2.d/... appropriate files), so I'll bring that along. (and, yes, RedHat are phasing out Xen as the standard VM platform. Is already the standard for Ubuntu) Have a few images ready for demo. I'm not all that savvy yet on Eucalyptus & OpenNebula (still learning), so if someone else can please fill in the blanks, that woulds be great. I'm dumb out of luck on the XenSource thing, but I think we should at least make mention & do a 101 demo on libvirt. Also, the Xen prez should also draw a distinction between Xen & XenSource (significant difference). now to find an appropriate sacrifice to the demo-deities.... -J From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 11:40:21 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 29 11:40:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Next meeting In-Reply-To: <659124.4663.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <659124.4663.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Mon 6th Jul, 19:00 sounds good to me. > > Deshan @ RvB said that he's pretty happy to host any of our events (we've had NZOSS & NZISIG there too), as he's making his tom from the drinks. > I'm aware that it's not always the most ideal of venues (we've still to use the backrooms w projectors), but it's great having a de-facto fall-back venue, if all else fails, as I've a standing arrangement with him (and, no, I don't get a commission from him) > > OK, down to biz. > I have a MacBook Pro (Santa Rosa 3,1), running the latest Jaunty 9.04 64-bit (pretty stable), and I have both KVM & VirtualBox installed (switch between the two by tweaking my /etc/rc2.d/... appropriate files), so I'll bring that along. (and, yes, RedHat are phasing out Xen as the standard VM platform. Is already the standard for Ubuntu) > Have a few images ready for demo. > > I'm not all that savvy yet on Eucalyptus & OpenNebula (still learning), so if someone else can please fill in the blanks, that woulds be great. > > I'm dumb out of luck on the XenSource thing, but I think we should at least make mention & do a 101 demo on libvirt. > Also, the Xen prez should also draw a distinction between Xen & XenSource (significant difference). > > now to find an appropriate sacrifice to the demo-deities.... > > -J So we have Xen and VirtualBox covered by Tobias, KVM and libvirt by Jaco. Do we need to throw VMWare into the mix or should we stick to the open stuff? As for OpenNebula and Eucalyptus, perhaps we can have a look and cover these in another session i.e. a session focused more on cloud computing. I now there's a big overlap but perhaps it'd be beneficial to have a 101 type talk (what is cloud computing, why are we moving toward it and how mature is it) followed by some of the more specific stuff on various implementations. Is everyone happy with this? I'll see if there is anything interesting to talk about in the kernel around virtualisation - I know there's some client specific as well as host specific VM stuff in the kernel but I'm not sure if any of this is all that interesting and how much of it is enabled by default in various distros. It might be worthwhile having a looking at Ubuntu Jeos as well which is the only VM client distro out there that I know of (without including all the individual appliances). Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 13:19:29 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 29 13:19:35 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Tobias Gerschner wrote: >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:57:55 +1200 >> From: Nevyn >> Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting >> To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list >> Message-ID: >> ? ? ? ? >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> We haven't really had a talk yet about the next AuckLUG meeting. >> >> So... first we need a speaker or speakers and next we need a venue. > > I am happy to do a live presentation of Xen and VirtualBox. > > What would be of interest ? > > Installation , configuration , certain use cases ? What combination of > host / guest OS would be of interest ? > > > >> So for the speakers - there was a lot of interest in virtualisation at >> the last meeting and I reckon this would be a good topic for the next >> meeting. I'm thinking we stick to the idea that we have several >> speakers talking about their chosen platform so do we have any >> volunteers? Also, a talk about what's in the kernel in aid of >> virtualisation - I can probably do the research on this over the next >> week if no one wants to run with this side of things. >> > > I'd be really happy to see something hands on about KVM. > > >> As for the venue - if we can't find an alternative, we can probably >> use RVB. I'll give them a call next week about it. The venue isn't bad >> for a meeting (the beer is definitely a bonus) but because it's sort >> of open you do get a fair amount of distraction from people using the >> gaming facilities. So if we have an alternative, I think the >> alternative is probably a good thing. It's always good having options. >> >> Thoughts? Opinions? >> >> Regards, >> Nevyn. >> > > Depending on the number of expected participants I can offer the > NATCOM boardroom at 39 Market Place near Viaduct for this particular > meeting. It's the building were NOVELL used to be. > > The new boardroom is slightly smaller so it would only suit if we're approx 10. > > regards > > -- > Tobias Gerschner > Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Perhaps the whole getting a list of attendance might solve a couple of problems - we should probably discuss this after the upcoming meeting. As far as I know it was a little bit of a problem at Vodaphone where they wanted a list of attendees before the meetings which given the informal nature of our meetings didn't really suit. Perhaps if we did make things just a little more formal... From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Mon Jun 29 15:07:43 2009 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Mon Jun 29 15:08:41 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: <8763eo7iht.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> <87skhvzats.fsf@rimspace.net> <35207fdf0906220012p7c36fef7m5d73a0adf6d57a94@mail.gmail.com> <416653940906220135q511b80cer2420c27d80b9038d@mail.gmail.com> <8763eo7iht.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Daniel Pittman wrote: > Those numbers are incredibly weird: they claim better CPU performance on the > SciMark test in a virtual environment than a native one. That ... is > extremely unlikely, to put it mildly, and suggests that at least some of the > testing is faulty. For some VM systems, CPU allocation is more of a hint than a hard limit, so if the host isn't otherwise busy, the guest can wind up using more CPU cores than are assigned to it. Then when the guest kernel tries to use hyper-threading on one CPU, the threads actually get executed on multiple real cores, so that "one CPU" seems to go really really fast... -Martin PS: At least, that's my understanding, taken from various snippets, and some educated guessing. If someone has a better explanation I'm all ears. From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:14:03 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Jun 29 15:14:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... Message-ID: Hi Guys, I did promise that I'd write a quick summary of the NZOSS meeting held Wednesday last week. Thanks Dale for reminding me in your last post... Okay, basically, for those you don't know, NZOSS stands for New Zealand Open Source Society. Basically it's an umbrella society for several projects within OSS in NZ (who would've guessed?). In the past they've refuted the MS XML format standardisation in NZ in which they were successful as well as a group under the umbrella of NZOSS leading a campaign against S92A (correct me if I'm wrong here). Anyway, as you can imagine, most of their activity has been in Wellington and so the talk here was to get Aucklanders into the fray more. So Don discussed their current project which is to attempt to establish a pilot program to move a government department to an Open Source stack rather than their traditional MS stack. This is important as it has to be proven to the government that an Open Source stack is a viable alternative to an MS stack. The timing is perfect given the issues surrounding the MS and NZ government negotiation problems at the moment in which MS have basically given the government a price not far off retail. Also with the recession and a lot of what's going on being about expense cutting, an OSS stack just makes sense. Currently 1 government department uses an OSS stack - I can't remember which department that is. Anyway, Don has done several talks on this to various departments (he said they were moving from talking to CIO's to CEO's) who seem enthusiastic about the idea. Various other little side topics came up such as OSS in schools and what benefit that could bring to individual schools (given that to the school a MS license costs nothing, financially speaking the benefit is very hard to see). The topic of computer literacy in New Zealand also came up. I remember reading a post on TheDailyWTF.com in which a manager had a secretary printing off all of his emails rather than him having to sit at a computer. I can imagine a fair amount of this happening in New Zealand. Of course, I also stated previously that this was going to be an email just so that others could contribute. I've pretty much put up the points that I thought to be important. I'm sure other perspectives can illuminate other topics or details that I've missed. Regards, Nevyn. From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Mon Jun 29 16:18:09 2009 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Mon Jun 29 16:18:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> Thanks Nevyn, as I couldn't make it to the meeting I'm glad to be able to catch up reading some of the discussions of that night. On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:14:03 Nevyn wrote: > Various other little side topics came up such as OSS in schools and > what benefit that could bring to individual schools (given that to the > school a MS license costs nothing, financially speaking the benefit is > very hard to see). The topic of computer literacy in New Zealand also > came up. One thing that's not so often stated, but I think is very important is this: The use of open source software is good for the NZ economy. Closed source is mainly supplied through overseas vendors (mainly US, mainly Redmont, Washington). Using open source alternatives keeps know how available, and what's more, fosters local involvement, creativity, and should be therefore beneficial to the NZ job market and economy. Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland) 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss From josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz Mon Jun 29 17:31:50 2009 From: josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz (JHB) Date: Mon Jun 29 17:31:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4851C6.7090408@yahoo.co.nz> Tobias Gerschner wrote: > snip > > Depending on the number of expected participants I can offer the > NATCOM boardroom at 39 Market Place near Viaduct for this particular > meeting. It's the building were NOVELL used to be. > > The new boardroom is slightly smaller so it would only suit if we're approx 10. > > regards > I am sorry but I have not kept up lately.. Is this tonight? What time will it start? Thank you JHB From josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz Mon Jun 29 17:38:51 2009 From: josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz (JHB) Date: Mon Jun 29 17:41:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: <4A4851C6.7090408@yahoo.co.nz> References: <4A4851C6.7090408@yahoo.co.nz> Message-ID: <4A48536B.4050400@yahoo.co.nz> JHB wrote: > Tobias Gerschner wrote: >> snip >> >> Depending on the number of expected participants I can offer the >> NATCOM boardroom at 39 Market Place near Viaduct for this particular >> meeting. It's the building were NOVELL used to be. >> >> The new boardroom is slightly smaller so it would only suit if we're >> approx 10. >> >> regards >> > I am sorry but I have not kept up lately.. Is this tonight? What time > will it start? > > Thank you > JHB > > Whups. I just noticed.. July 8 at 7pm? JHB From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Jun 29 18:01:31 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Jun 29 18:02:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware In-Reply-To: (Martin D. Kealey's message of "Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:07:43 +1200 (NZST)") References: <200906110002.n5B02WFS003383@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4A34374B.14242.1206151@jis.quicksilver.net.nz> <4A3AE8AF.3050203@omiha.com> <35207fdf0906191948y39002b4eq6373d2562fca0b6e@mail.gmail.com> <87skhvzats.fsf@rimspace.net> <35207fdf0906220012p7c36fef7m5d73a0adf6d57a94@mail.gmail.com> <416653940906220135q511b80cer2420c27d80b9038d@mail.gmail.com> <8763eo7iht.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <87eit3tw78.fsf@rimspace.net> Martin D Kealey writes: > On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Daniel Pittman wrote: > >> Those numbers are incredibly weird: they claim better CPU performance on >> the SciMark test in a virtual environment than a native one. That ... is >> extremely unlikely, to put it mildly, and suggests that at least some of >> the testing is faulty. > > For some VM systems, CPU allocation is more of a hint than a hard limit, so > if the host isn't otherwise busy, the guest can wind up using more CPU cores > than are assigned to it. Then when the guest kernel tries to use > hyper-threading on one CPU, the threads actually get executed on multiple > real cores, so that "one CPU" seems to go really really fast... Hey, good thought. I hadn't considered that, and it could lead to the results we saw, even if it would mean cache ping-pong if memory was reused. Heck, given the multi-core chips these days even /that/ wouldn't mean more than an L2 or L3 cache fetch anyway. Regards, Daniel From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Jun 29 18:29:39 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Jun 29 18:29:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Nevyn wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I did promise that I'd write a quick summary of the NZOSS meeting held > Wednesday last week. Thanks Dale for reminding me in your last post... > > Okay, basically, for those you don't know, NZOSS stands for New > Zealand Open Source Society. Basically it's an umbrella society for > several projects within OSS in NZ (who would've guessed?). In the past > they've refuted the MS XML format standardisation in NZ in which they > were successful as well as a group under the umbrella of NZOSS leading > a campaign against S92A (correct me if I'm wrong here). > > Anyway, as you can imagine, most of their activity has been in > Wellington and so the talk here was to get Aucklanders into the fray > more. So Don discussed their current project which is to attempt to For those unaware, NZOSS was actually started and formed in Auckland, a meeting of the then-NZLUG (what is now AuckLUG) was one of the major catalysts to moving it forward. The foundation president is Peter Harrison, an Aucklander. Vik Olliver (who some of you may know) is currently serving VP. Don Christie, referred to above, is a Director of Catalyst IT (a major OSS-oriented business located in Wellington) and is a very strong ally for all things in the OSS/FOSS/FLOSS world. The Society has a website (http://nzoss.org.nz) and a mailing list open for all (openchat; refer http://nzoss.org.nz/mailinglists) and I encourage people interested in the practical, philosophical, political and ethical aspects of free/open source engagement, to subscribe. The idea is that the LUG's should form a more 'technical' community (noting their focus is Linux, not other F/OSS aspects) and the NZOSS as a society, is formed around endorsement, encouragement, support and education of the concept, not necessarily the details (though those too, as appropriate). For the record, I was also a foundation member of NZOSS (and am a coopted member of Council, mainly as a working-in-the-background sort). > establish a pilot program to move a government department to an Open > Source stack rather than their traditional MS stack. This is important > as it has to be proven to the government that an Open Source stack is > a viable alternative to an MS stack. The timing is perfect given the > issues surrounding the MS and NZ government negotiation problems at > the moment in which MS have basically given the government a price not > far off retail. Also with the recession and a lot of what's going on > being about expense cutting, an OSS stack just makes sense. > > Currently 1 government department uses an OSS stack - I can't remember > which department that is. Anyway, Don has done several talks on this > to various departments (he said they were moving from talking to CIO's > to CEO's) who seem enthusiastic about the idea. The key thing from my own observation, is that use of OSS in many sectors which are traditionally Microsoft Shops, is only where the Microsoft solutions aren't as obviously effective or elegant in the context of the rest of their environment. For example, whilst Apache is a wonderful webserver, an AD-integrated IIS solution may well seem more 'elegant' on an Intranet. >From my viewpoint it's the old 'averse to change' mentality; people will work with what they know. What're the majority of ICT professionals working with day-after-day? (we of course, need to be helping open peoples eyes to the alternatives.) > Various other little side topics came up such as OSS in schools and > what benefit that could bring to individual schools (given that to the > school a MS license costs nothing, financially speaking the benefit is > very hard to see). We need to move toward teaching capabilities, instead of teaching specific applications (or doing things by rote). Rote learning may work in the very beginning, but if understanding is truly taught, the skills should easily port between similar tools... > The topic of computer literacy in New Zealand also > came up. I remember reading a post on TheDailyWTF.com in which a > manager had a secretary printing off all of his emails rather than him > having to sit at a computer. I can imagine a fair amount of this > happening in New Zealand. I dunno about this one - 10 years ago I might've agreed but I've seen plenty of people dragged kicking and screaming into the IT age who I wouldn'tve credited for it :-) In all seriousness I would hope that the example you give is a most definate exception, not a rule. Whilst there's likely to be some sticklers, even the most IT-illterate of managers tends to recognise the need to embrace technology. Thanks for posting Nevyn, and I hope AuckLUG members are keen to support the ideals of the NZOSS and some of the stuff they've got going on. While on the subject, there's a copyright forum coming up (hosted by the NZ Labour Party) in Freemans Bay: http://lists.nzoss.org.nz/pipermail/openchat/2009-June/002201.html Regards Mark. From greg at primesoft.co.nz Mon Jun 29 20:21:35 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Mon Jun 29 20:22:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> Message-ID: <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Keeping the $$$ in New Zealand is good. I fear that technicians on the ground to move more than a couple of small govt agencies may be a problem. You have to remember that the one labour sector that is still holding up during this recession is IT. Unless a few MSCEs quickly skill up on open source, the pool of professional, presentable open source engineers could get exhausted. This could lead to failed pilots which can only produce a poor reputation for the open source solutions. One thing that was mentioned at the meeting was that agencies were to front up with cash, $2000 - $5000, to get these pilots off the ground. Not sure how this was actually supposed to get to the techs doing the work. That wasn't fully explained. I think more info was to come. Careful documentation of the process was required with all labour, including training, to be recorded to produce realistic costing of each pilot conversion. As per usual the open source community must volunteer expertise in the first instance to effectively grow the open source service market. This further exacerbates the labour shortage. Even the skinniest of geeky technician has to eat sometime. Exciting times, hopefully at least a few Govt agencies can be picked off. Greg P.S. It was the electoral agency that has a complete open source stack. -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Guy K. Kloss Sent: Monday, 29 June 2009 4:18 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... Thanks Nevyn, as I couldn't make it to the meeting I'm glad to be able to catch up reading some of the discussions of that night. On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:14:03 Nevyn wrote: > Various other little side topics came up such as OSS in schools and > what benefit that could bring to individual schools (given that to the > school a MS license costs nothing, financially speaking the benefit is > very hard to see). The topic of computer literacy in New Zealand also > came up. One thing that's not so often stated, but I think is very important is this: The use of open source software is good for the NZ economy. Closed source is mainly supplied through overseas vendors (mainly US, mainly Redmont, Washington). Using open source alternatives keeps know how available, and what's more, fosters local involvement, creativity, and should be therefore beneficial to the NZ job market and economy. Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland) 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 10:03:24 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 10:03:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Greg Stevenson wrote: > Keeping the $$$ in New Zealand is good. I fear that technicians on the ground to move more than a couple of small govt agencies may be a problem. > You have to remember that the one labour sector that is still holding up during this recession is IT. > > Unless a few MSCEs quickly skill up on open source, the pool of professional, presentable open source engineers could get exhausted. This could lead to failed pilots which can only produce a poor reputation for the open source solutions. > > One thing that was mentioned at the meeting was that agencies were to front up with cash, $2000 - $5000, to get these pilots off the ground. Not sure how this was actually supposed to get to the techs doing the work. That wasn't fully explained. I think more info was to come. > Careful documentation of the process was required with all labour, including training, to be recorded to produce realistic costing of each pilot conversion. > > As per usual the open source community must volunteer expertise in the first instance to effectively grow the open source service market. > This further exacerbates the labour shortage. Even the skinniest of geeky technician has to eat sometime. > > Exciting times, hopefully at least a few Govt agencies can be picked off. > > Greg > > P.S. It was the electoral agency that has a complete open source stack. The labour pool had me scratching my head as well. If you have 5 employees already looking after your I.T. systems in house, finding a couple of Linux guys to replace them and having to go through all of that fun restructuring stuff would be a definite turn off. That to me would be probably one of the major costs. Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 10:13:09 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 10:14:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: <4A48536B.4050400@yahoo.co.nz> References: <4A4851C6.7090408@yahoo.co.nz> <4A48536B.4050400@yahoo.co.nz> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:38 PM, JHB wrote: > JHB wrote: >> I am sorry but I have not kept up lately.. Is this tonight? What time will >> it start? >> >> Thank you >> JHB >> >> > Whups. I just noticed.. July 8 at 7pm? > > JHB Hi JHB, That's something else - a copyright forum. The AuckLUG meeting will be held on the 6th of July. It's always the 1st Monday of the month. Will be at 7 at RvB. I'll post a proper annoucement soon'ish. Regards, Nevyn. From pieter at insync.za.net Tue Jun 30 10:17:02 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Tue Jun 30 10:17:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Nevyn wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Greg Stevenson wrote: >> Keeping the $$$ in New Zealand is good. I fear that technicians on the ground to move more than a couple of small govt agencies may be a problem. >> You have to remember that the one labour sector that is still holding up during this recession is IT. >> >> Unless a few MSCEs quickly skill up on open source, the pool of professional, presentable open source engineers could get exhausted. This could lead to failed pilots which can only produce a poor reputation for the open source solutions. >> >> One thing that was mentioned at the meeting was that agencies were to front up with cash, $2000 - $5000, to get these pilots off the ground. Not sure how this was actually supposed to get to the techs doing the work. That wasn't fully explained. I think more info was to come. >> Careful documentation of the process was required with all labour, including training, to be recorded to produce realistic costing of each pilot conversion. >> >> As per usual the open source community must volunteer expertise in the first instance to effectively grow the open source service market. >> This further exacerbates the labour shortage. Even the skinniest of geeky technician has to eat sometime. >> >> Exciting times, hopefully at least a few Govt agencies can be picked off. >> >> Greg >> >> P.S. It was the electoral agency that has a complete open source stack. > > The labour pool had me scratching my head as well. If you have 5 > employees already looking after your I.T. systems in house, finding a > couple of Linux guys to replace them and having to go through all of > that fun restructuring stuff would be a definite turn off. That to me > would be probably one of the major costs. But 2 *good* Linux admins will replace the 5 (might not always be the case) but it does work in 95% of the cases. Here is a prime one - some guys are migrating from Windows SBS to "Full Exchange". They got quotes for 1000's to migrate the data....a simple script with imapsync would have solved the problem in a matter of minutes with a *much* lower cost. 1 person vs 5 for the migration.... I know that I "jumped" in late on this thread, but the real value of open source (be it Windows/Linux/Unix/Mac) is in the way things are done. Open Source "people" tend to always work "to the max" and find the best (or better) way to do things. At least - that is my experience. Companies need to ack. the fact that these people love what they do and the are willing to "go the extra mile". My 2c :) Pieter > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 10:54:03 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 10:54:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Pieter De Wit wrote: > But 2 *good* Linux admins will replace the 5 (might not always be the case) > but it does work in 95% of the cases. Here is a prime one - some guys are > migrating from Windows SBS to "Full Exchange". They got quotes for 1000's to > migrate the data....a simple script with imapsync would have solved the > problem in a matter of minutes with a *much* lower cost. 1 person vs 5 for > the migration.... > > I know that I "jumped" in late on this thread, but the real value of open > source (be it Windows/Linux/Unix/Mac) is in the way things are done. Open > Source "people" tend to always work "to the max" and find the best (or > better) way to do things. At least - that is my experience. Companies need > to ack. the fact that these people love what they do and the are willing to > "go the extra mile". > > My 2c :) > > Pieter Hi Pieter, Good point but... That won't always be the case though. When I was at tech (Unitech) we had a class where we went around the room and asked "why do you want to get into computing?" I think I was the only one who answered "Because I love computers. I love learning and computers change at a pace fast enough to keep me satisfied." Most of the answers around the room were job security, money etc. So those who love computers and love experimenting and love being free to experiment are naturally a good fit as a Linux admin. However, those waters will end up muddied if people start to see Linux as an means to their ends (job security, money etc.). However, with the switching costs of replacing Windows Admins with Linux Admins, there's a certain emotional price as well. These are people who people have probably gotten to know and like (so long as they're not the greasy unlikable types as depicted on the UK version of The Office). No one ever thinks about the henchmen.. Regards, Nevyn. From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Tue Jun 30 11:05:05 2009 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Tue Jun 30 11:05:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Message-ID: <200906301105.05380.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:03:24 Nevyn wrote: > The labour pool had me scratching my head as well. If you have 5 > employees already looking after your I.T. systems in house, finding a > couple of Linux guys to replace them and having to go through all of > that fun restructuring stuff would be a definite turn off. That to me > would be probably one of the major costs. On the other hand one can argue like this: We rather invest the money into further training/educating our people (admin staff) rather than paying licenses to overseas corporations with no value gain for NZ. Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland) 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 11:11:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 11:12:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <200906301105.05380.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> References: <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <200906301105.05380.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Guy K. Kloss wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:03:24 Nevyn wrote: >> The labour pool had me scratching my head as well. If you have 5 >> employees already looking after your I.T. systems in house, finding a >> couple of Linux guys to replace them and having to go through all of >> that fun restructuring stuff would be a definite turn off. That to me >> would be probably one of the major costs. > > On the other hand one can argue like this: We rather invest the money into > further training/educating our people (admin staff) rather than paying > licenses to overseas corporations with no value gain for NZ. > > Guy :D Oh I like that. I can't help but grin. And oh so true. The transition definitely isn't an easy one though. I mean, it took me a little while to get used to not having the "control panel" and the control panel that I could find only covered a few X type things rather than system stuff. The realisation that I could do all of my admin stuff in terminal had me grinning again :) You're probably better off getting rid of 3 of 'em, training 2 up and hiring in someone more experienced. So going from 5 MS admins to 1 experienced Linux admin and 2 inexperienced.. From pieter at insync.za.net Tue Jun 30 12:03:12 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Tue Jun 30 12:03:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Nevyn wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Pieter De Wit wrote: > Good point but... > > That won't always be the case though. When I was at tech (Unitech) we > had a class where we went around the room and asked "why do you want > to get into computing?" I think I was the only one who answered > "Because I love computers. I love learning and computers change at a > pace fast enough to keep me satisfied." Most of the answers around the > room were job security, money etc. > > So those who love computers and love experimenting and love being free > to experiment are naturally a good fit as a Linux admin. However, > those waters will end up muddied if people start to see Linux as an > means to their ends (job security, money etc.). > > However, with the switching costs of replacing Windows Admins with > Linux Admins, there's a certain emotional price as well. These are > people who people have probably gotten to know and like (so long as > they're not the greasy unlikable types as depicted on the UK version > of The Office). No one ever thinks about the henchmen.. I agree with you whole hearty - but that is the problem in the "pool". Certain OS' created a shallow side of the pool where by people can wade in and not really get committed to "the art of computing" It is a personal gripe of mine that I see people earning the same salary as me, well knowing they "switch off" when home time rolls around and can't face another computer until the next morning. They don't seem to care that Exchange now uses SMTP for inter-site messages compared to RPC or some "arb" fact like that. Yes - it's up to me to better myself and I am free to learn what I want where I want, the same is applied to everyone else - *BUT* if you want to get a return on investment on your computer hardware/software and usage and get "blood out of a stone" you need to have the right people. For this, you need to swim in the deep side of the pool ;) You will find the party is better "here" Don't get me wrong - I am not shouting for an "All Linux" or "All Windows" environment - both OS' have a place in the market. Big corp's just need to see it and start committing to it From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 12:39:39 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 12:39:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Message-ID: <5b6001920906291739p73d4cc0obcc626ce5935f35b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Following on from this point of financial savings from a former accountant, the major effect on a corporation will be handling a major IT department debt that is not there any more similar to the change to PC's from mainframe IT. More funds available to them for expansion and less people looking at ways to keep the corporation afloat. Kevin 2009/6/30 Pieter De Wit > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Nevyn wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Pieter De Wit >> wrote: >> > > >> Good point but... >> >> That won't always be the case though. When I was at tech (Unitech) we >> had a class where we went around the room and asked "why do you want >> to get into computing?" I think I was the only one who answered >> "Because I love computers. I love learning and computers change at a >> pace fast enough to keep me satisfied." Most of the answers around the >> room were job security, money etc. >> >> So those who love computers and love experimenting and love being free >> to experiment are naturally a good fit as a Linux admin. However, >> those waters will end up muddied if people start to see Linux as an >> means to their ends (job security, money etc.). >> >> However, with the switching costs of replacing Windows Admins with >> Linux Admins, there's a certain emotional price as well. These are >> people who people have probably gotten to know and like (so long as >> they're not the greasy unlikable types as depicted on the UK version >> of The Office). No one ever thinks about the henchmen.. >> > > I agree with you whole hearty - but that is the problem in the "pool". > Certain OS' created a shallow side of the pool where by people can wade in > and not really get committed to "the art of computing" > > It is a personal gripe of mine that I see people earning the same salary as > me, well knowing they "switch off" when home time rolls around and can't > face another computer until the next morning. They don't seem to care that > Exchange now uses SMTP for inter-site messages compared to RPC or some "arb" > fact like that. > > Yes - it's up to me to better myself and I am free to learn what I want > where I want, the same is applied to everyone else - *BUT* if you want to > get a return on investment on your computer hardware/software and usage and > get "blood out of a stone" you need to have the right people. > > For this, you need to swim in the deep side of the pool ;) You will find > the party is better "here" > > Don't get me wrong - I am not shouting for an "All Linux" or "All Windows" > environment - both OS' have a place in the market. Big corp's just need to > see it and start committing to it > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From pieter at insync.za.net Tue Jun 30 13:01:22 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Tue Jun 30 13:01:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906291739p73d4cc0obcc626ce5935f35b@mail.gmail.com> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291739p73d4cc0obcc626ce5935f35b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Hi, > > Following on from this point of financial savings from a former accountant, > the major effect on a corporation will be handling a major IT department > debt that is not there any more similar to the change to PC's from mainframe > IT. More funds available to them for expansion and less people looking at > ways to keep the corporation afloat. > > Kevin Hi Kevin, Am I correct in understand that you are saying without the debt created by IT most companies won't make it ? I am pretty sure I have the /bin/cat by the tail. In a weird way it does makes sense thou..... Cheers, Pieter From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 13:15:54 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 13:16:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291739p73d4cc0obcc626ce5935f35b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920906291815k4914ceb7i27f25055955cfcac@mail.gmail.com> Hi Pieter, Without having to have a computer replacement fund added to each year, their financial budgets would decrease dramatically as most IT department heads will know. The target figure of the replacement fund would need to be revised downward. There would be no change in IT initially except for perhaps an increase in Linux staff to manage their side of the dual ledger running which would have to take place. Only small equipment changes to allow both systems to run sided by side then MS would fall off allowing personnel rearrangement. The need to chase the biggest and best IT system would be gone. Kevin 2009/6/30 Pieter De Wit > Hi, >> >> Following on from this point of financial savings from a former >> accountant, >> the major effect on a corporation will be handling a major IT department >> debt that is not there any more similar to the change to PC's from >> mainframe >> IT. More funds available to them for expansion and less people looking at >> ways to keep the corporation afloat. >> >> Kevin >> > > Hi Kevin, > > Am I correct in understand that you are saying without the debt created by > IT most companies won't make it ? I am pretty sure I have the /bin/cat by > the tail. > > In a weird way it does makes sense thou..... > > Cheers, > > Pieter > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Jun 30 13:31:10 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Jun 30 13:31:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: <4A4851C6.7090408@yahoo.co.nz> <4A48536B.4050400@yahoo.co.nz> Message-ID: <26639.219.88.73.199.1246325470.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Tue, June 30, 2009 10:13 am, Nevyn wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:38 PM, JHB wrote: >> JHB wrote: >>> I am sorry but I have not kept up lately.. Is this tonight? What time >>> will >>> it start? >>> >>> Thank you >>> JHB >>> >>> >> Whups. I just noticed.. July 8 at 7pm? >> >> JHB > > Hi JHB, > > That's something else - a copyright forum. > > The AuckLUG meeting will be held on the 6th of July. It's always the > 1st Monday of the month. Will be at 7 at RvB. I'll post a proper > annoucement soon'ish. > Make sure you flag the announcement to me Nevyn - so that I can post it on linux.net.nz. I've been a little distracted lately... Also encourage you to post to nzlug-announce@ as well. Mark. From greg at primesoft.co.nz Tue Jun 30 13:44:29 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Tue Jun 30 13:44:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> Message-ID: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> Agreed, however those all too few excellent dedicated engineers who have techie skills I only wish I had, tend to be poor communicators and particularly poor sales people. To get a CEO to go out on what he/she will think is the proverbial limb will take a powerful sales message. To avoid 200 disgruntled office workers gathered around the water cooler bitching about how they don't understand how to do their job because they don't know what icon to click takes brilliant planning and communication. We are all curious, we would go looking for the icon. Unfortunately we are a small geeky subset of the normal population. The rest will hammer on the CEO's door to complain because they can't find their email client to send the CEO their complaint in writing. It will be an interesting exercise to figure out just how much $ value is tied up in a given workforces operational knowledge of the MS stack. Only a dozen people turned up to the NZOSS meeting, I'm sure only a small percentage of those are in the business of support services. There will need to be a marked increase in numbers interested in the pilot scheme process before serious conversion bids could be mounted. I suggest affiliated groups will need to be formed (lots of us work very independently with little backup to our skills) to get the numbers of engineers a government agency would deem necessary to support their operations. i.e. Individuals being hit by a bus can't risk bringing an agency to a grinding halt. My understanding is that NZOSS will provide some credibility in this area but is not responsible for contractual obligations with respect to pilot projects and ongoing service contracts? Can anyone enlighten me on this? -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Nevyn Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 10:54 a.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Pieter De Wit wrote: > But 2 *good* Linux admins will replace the 5 (might not always be the case) > but it does work in 95% of the cases. Here is a prime one - some guys are > migrating from Windows SBS to "Full Exchange". They got quotes for 1000's to > migrate the data....a simple script with imapsync would have solved the > problem in a matter of minutes with a *much* lower cost. 1 person vs 5 for > the migration.... > > I know that I "jumped" in late on this thread, but the real value of open > source (be it Windows/Linux/Unix/Mac) is in the way things are done. Open > Source "people" tend to always work "to the max" and find the best (or > better) way to do things. At least - that is my experience. Companies need > to ack. the fact that these people love what they do and the are willing to > "go the extra mile". > > My 2c :) > > Pieter Hi Pieter, Good point but... That won't always be the case though. When I was at tech (Unitech) we had a class where we went around the room and asked "why do you want to get into computing?" I think I was the only one who answered "Because I love computers. I love learning and computers change at a pace fast enough to keep me satisfied." Most of the answers around the room were job security, money etc. So those who love computers and love experimenting and love being free to experiment are naturally a good fit as a Linux admin. However, those waters will end up muddied if people start to see Linux as an means to their ends (job security, money etc.). However, with the switching costs of replacing Windows Admins with Linux Admins, there's a certain emotional price as well. These are people who people have probably gotten to know and like (so long as they're not the greasy unlikable types as depicted on the UK version of The Office). No one ever thinks about the henchmen.. Regards, Nevyn. _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From greg at primesoft.co.nz Tue Jun 30 13:57:47 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Tue Jun 30 13:58:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906291815k4914ceb7i27f25055955cfcac@mail.gmail.com> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291739p73d4cc0obcc626ce5935f35b@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906291815k4914ceb7i27f25055955cfcac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00c001c9f926$2af60710$80e21530$@co.nz> Workstation and Server replacement may start being driven by green factors as opposed to bloated software stacks. Whilst Open Source can get twice as much done on existing hardware, and theoretically dropping hardware replacement costs, this may not end up being as much of a driver as low power consumption processors meeting corporate social responsibility needs. Everyone may well swap to atom based workstations and consolidation of servers on blades keeping the Hardware replacement costs high in the short term. Just a thought. -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Kevin Adams Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 1:16 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... Hi Pieter, Without having to have a computer replacement fund added to each year, their financial budgets would decrease dramatically as most IT department heads will know. The target figure of the replacement fund would need to be revised downward. There would be no change in IT initially except for perhaps an increase in Linux staff to manage their side of the dual ledger running which would have to take place. Only small equipment changes to allow both systems to run sided by side then MS would fall off allowing personnel rearrangement. The need to chase the biggest and best IT system would be gone. Kevin 2009/6/30 Pieter De Wit > Hi, >> >> Following on from this point of financial savings from a former >> accountant, >> the major effect on a corporation will be handling a major IT department >> debt that is not there any more similar to the change to PC's from >> mainframe >> IT. More funds available to them for expansion and less people looking at >> ways to keep the corporation afloat. >> >> Kevin >> > > Hi Kevin, > > Am I correct in understand that you are saying without the debt created by > IT most companies won't make it ? I am pretty sure I have the /bin/cat by > the tail. > > In a weird way it does makes sense thou..... > > Cheers, > > Pieter > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 13:58:28 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 13:58:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> Message-ID: <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> Hi, *To avoid 200 disgruntled office workers gathered around the water cooler bitching about how they don't understand how to do their job because they don't know what icon to click takes brilliant planning and communication.* Dual running takes care of that. Finance is your big club, and very important in the current financial climate. This is Linux and FOSS's first real chance. It would be sad if you missed the bus. Kevin 2009/6/30 Greg Stevenson > Agreed, however those all too few excellent dedicated engineers who have > techie skills I only wish I had, tend to be poor communicators and > particularly poor sales people. > To get a CEO to go out on what he/she will think is the proverbial limb > will > take a powerful sales message. To avoid 200 disgruntled office workers > gathered around the water cooler bitching about how they don't understand > how to do their job because they don't know what icon to click takes > brilliant planning and communication. We are all curious, we would go > looking for the icon. Unfortunately we are a small geeky subset of the > normal population. The rest will hammer on the CEO's door to complain > because they can't find their email client to send the CEO their complaint > in writing. > > It will be an interesting exercise to figure out just how much $ value is > tied up in a given workforces operational knowledge of the MS stack. > > Only a dozen people turned up to the NZOSS meeting, I'm sure only a small > percentage of those are in the business of support services. There will > need > to be a marked increase in numbers interested in the pilot scheme process > before serious conversion bids could be mounted. I suggest affiliated > groups > will need to be formed (lots of us work very independently with little > backup to our skills) to get the numbers of engineers a government agency > would deem necessary to support their operations. i.e. Individuals being > hit > by a bus can't risk bringing an agency to a grinding halt. My understanding > is that NZOSS will provide some credibility in this area but is not > responsible for contractual obligations with respect to pilot projects and > ongoing service contracts? Can anyone enlighten me on this? > > -----Original Message----- > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > On > Behalf Of Nevyn > Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 10:54 a.m. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Pieter De Wit > wrote: > > But 2 *good* Linux admins will replace the 5 (might not always be the > case) > > but it does work in 95% of the cases. Here is a prime one - some guys are > > migrating from Windows SBS to "Full Exchange". They got quotes for 1000's > to > > migrate the data....a simple script with imapsync would have solved the > > problem in a matter of minutes with a *much* lower cost. 1 person vs 5 > for > > the migration.... > > > > I know that I "jumped" in late on this thread, but the real value of open > > source (be it Windows/Linux/Unix/Mac) is in the way things are done. Open > > Source "people" tend to always work "to the max" and find the best (or > > better) way to do things. At least - that is my experience. Companies > need > > to ack. the fact that these people love what they do and the are willing > to > > "go the extra mile". > > > > My 2c :) > > > > Pieter > > Hi Pieter, > > Good point but... > > That won't always be the case though. When I was at tech (Unitech) we > had a class where we went around the room and asked "why do you want > to get into computing?" I think I was the only one who answered > "Because I love computers. I love learning and computers change at a > pace fast enough to keep me satisfied." Most of the answers around the > room were job security, money etc. > > So those who love computers and love experimenting and love being free > to experiment are naturally a good fit as a Linux admin. However, > those waters will end up muddied if people start to see Linux as an > means to their ends (job security, money etc.). > > However, with the switching costs of replacing Windows Admins with > Linux Admins, there's a certain emotional price as well. These are > people who people have probably gotten to know and like (so long as > they're not the greasy unlikable types as depicted on the UK version > of The Office). No one ever thinks about the henchmen.. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From greg at primesoft.co.nz Tue Jun 30 14:05:51 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Tue Jun 30 14:06:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> I agree but that is not how it was presented with respect to the pilot project intentions. I would run parallel for a period and wean users off their licence fee based apps asap. This approach was not mentioned at the meeting as far as I was aware. -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Kevin Adams Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 1:58 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... Hi, *To avoid 200 disgruntled office workers gathered around the water cooler bitching about how they don't understand how to do their job because they don't know what icon to click takes brilliant planning and communication.* Dual running takes care of that. Finance is your big club, and very important in the current financial climate. This is Linux and FOSS's first real chance. It would be sad if you missed the bus. Kevin 2009/6/30 Greg Stevenson > Agreed, however those all too few excellent dedicated engineers who have > techie skills I only wish I had, tend to be poor communicators and > particularly poor sales people. > To get a CEO to go out on what he/she will think is the proverbial limb > will > take a powerful sales message. To avoid 200 disgruntled office workers > gathered around the water cooler bitching about how they don't understand > how to do their job because they don't know what icon to click takes > brilliant planning and communication. We are all curious, we would go > looking for the icon. Unfortunately we are a small geeky subset of the > normal population. The rest will hammer on the CEO's door to complain > because they can't find their email client to send the CEO their complaint > in writing. > > It will be an interesting exercise to figure out just how much $ value is > tied up in a given workforces operational knowledge of the MS stack. > > Only a dozen people turned up to the NZOSS meeting, I'm sure only a small > percentage of those are in the business of support services. There will > need > to be a marked increase in numbers interested in the pilot scheme process > before serious conversion bids could be mounted. I suggest affiliated > groups > will need to be formed (lots of us work very independently with little > backup to our skills) to get the numbers of engineers a government agency > would deem necessary to support their operations. i.e. Individuals being > hit > by a bus can't risk bringing an agency to a grinding halt. My understanding > is that NZOSS will provide some credibility in this area but is not > responsible for contractual obligations with respect to pilot projects and > ongoing service contracts? Can anyone enlighten me on this? > > -----Original Message----- > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > On > Behalf Of Nevyn > Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 10:54 a.m. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Pieter De Wit > wrote: > > But 2 *good* Linux admins will replace the 5 (might not always be the > case) > > but it does work in 95% of the cases. Here is a prime one - some guys are > > migrating from Windows SBS to "Full Exchange". They got quotes for 1000's > to > > migrate the data....a simple script with imapsync would have solved the > > problem in a matter of minutes with a *much* lower cost. 1 person vs 5 > for > > the migration.... > > > > I know that I "jumped" in late on this thread, but the real value of open > > source (be it Windows/Linux/Unix/Mac) is in the way things are done. Open > > Source "people" tend to always work "to the max" and find the best (or > > better) way to do things. At least - that is my experience. Companies > need > > to ack. the fact that these people love what they do and the are willing > to > > "go the extra mile". > > > > My 2c :) > > > > Pieter > > Hi Pieter, > > Good point but... > > That won't always be the case though. When I was at tech (Unitech) we > had a class where we went around the room and asked "why do you want > to get into computing?" I think I was the only one who answered > "Because I love computers. I love learning and computers change at a > pace fast enough to keep me satisfied." Most of the answers around the > room were job security, money etc. > > So those who love computers and love experimenting and love being free > to experiment are naturally a good fit as a Linux admin. However, > those waters will end up muddied if people start to see Linux as an > means to their ends (job security, money etc.). > > However, with the switching costs of replacing Windows Admins with > Linux Admins, there's a certain emotional price as well. These are > people who people have probably gotten to know and like (so long as > they're not the greasy unlikable types as depicted on the UK version > of The Office). No one ever thinks about the henchmen.. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:03:35 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 14:10:44 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <00c001c9f926$2af60710$80e21530$@co.nz> References: <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291739p73d4cc0obcc626ce5935f35b@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906291815k4914ceb7i27f25055955cfcac@mail.gmail.com> <00c001c9f926$2af60710$80e21530$@co.nz> Message-ID: <5b6001920906291903q1f107b48mc0c15137cd895821@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm not suggesting that the computer replacement fund be abolished, just down in target. A large part of the replacement program in every case is software. Kevin 2009/6/30 Greg Stevenson > Workstation and Server replacement may start being driven by green factors > as opposed to bloated software stacks. > Whilst Open Source can get twice as much done on existing hardware, and > theoretically dropping hardware replacement costs, this may not end up > being > as much of a driver as low power consumption processors meeting corporate > social responsibility needs. Everyone may well swap to atom based > workstations and consolidation of servers on blades keeping the Hardware > replacement costs high in the short term. Just a thought. > > -----Original Message----- > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > On > Behalf Of Kevin Adams > Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 1:16 p.m. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... > > Hi Pieter, > > Without having to have a computer replacement fund added to each year, > their > financial budgets would decrease dramatically as most IT department heads > will know. The target figure of the replacement fund would need to be > revised downward. There would be no change in IT initially except for > perhaps an increase in Linux staff to manage their side of the dual ledger > running which would have to take place. Only small equipment changes to > allow both systems to run sided by side then MS would fall off allowing > personnel rearrangement. The need to chase the biggest and best IT system > would be gone. > > Kevin > > 2009/6/30 Pieter De Wit > > > Hi, > >> > >> Following on from this point of financial savings from a former > >> accountant, > >> the major effect on a corporation will be handling a major IT department > >> debt that is not there any more similar to the change to PC's from > >> mainframe > >> IT. More funds available to them for expansion and less people looking > at > >> ways to keep the corporation afloat. > >> > >> Kevin > >> > > > > Hi Kevin, > > > > Am I correct in understand that you are saying without the debt created > by > > IT most companies won't make it ? I am pretty sure I have the /bin/cat by > > the tail. > > > > In a weird way it does makes sense thou..... > > > > Cheers, > > > > Pieter > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:11:55 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 14:12:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> Message-ID: <5b6001920906291911s5605dfbcheaf1556dd56bdd4b@mail.gmail.com> Hi Greg, Possibly no one has experienced the change in IT systems. I personally, from the finance side, been involved in two major changes - IBM Mainframe - Unix - PC. Kevin 2009/6/30 Greg Stevenson > I agree but that is not how it was presented with respect to the pilot > project intentions. > > I would run parallel for a period and wean users off their licence fee > based > apps asap. This approach was not mentioned at the meeting as far as I was > aware. > > -----Original Message----- > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > On > Behalf Of Kevin Adams > Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 1:58 p.m. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... > > Hi, > > *To avoid 200 disgruntled office workers > gathered around the water cooler bitching about how they don't understand > how to do their job because they don't know what icon to click takes > brilliant planning and communication.* > > Dual running takes care of that. > > Finance is your big club, and very important in the current financial > climate. This is Linux and FOSS's first real chance. It would be sad if you > missed the bus. > > Kevin > > 2009/6/30 Greg Stevenson > > > Agreed, however those all too few excellent dedicated engineers who have > > techie skills I only wish I had, tend to be poor communicators and > > particularly poor sales people. > > To get a CEO to go out on what he/she will think is the proverbial limb > > will > > take a powerful sales message. To avoid 200 disgruntled office workers > > gathered around the water cooler bitching about how they don't understand > > how to do their job because they don't know what icon to click takes > > brilliant planning and communication. We are all curious, we would go > > looking for the icon. Unfortunately we are a small geeky subset of the > > normal population. The rest will hammer on the CEO's door to complain > > because they can't find their email client to send the CEO their > complaint > > in writing. > > > > It will be an interesting exercise to figure out just how much $ value is > > tied up in a given workforces operational knowledge of the MS stack. > > > > Only a dozen people turned up to the NZOSS meeting, I'm sure only a small > > percentage of those are in the business of support services. There will > > need > > to be a marked increase in numbers interested in the pilot scheme process > > before serious conversion bids could be mounted. I suggest affiliated > > groups > > will need to be formed (lots of us work very independently with little > > backup to our skills) to get the numbers of engineers a government agency > > would deem necessary to support their operations. i.e. Individuals being > > hit > > by a bus can't risk bringing an agency to a grinding halt. My > understanding > > is that NZOSS will provide some credibility in this area but is not > > responsible for contractual obligations with respect to pilot projects > and > > ongoing service contracts? Can anyone enlighten me on this? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > > On > > Behalf Of Nevyn > > Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 10:54 a.m. > > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Pieter De Wit > > wrote: > > > But 2 *good* Linux admins will replace the 5 (might not always be the > > case) > > > but it does work in 95% of the cases. Here is a prime one - some guys > are > > > migrating from Windows SBS to "Full Exchange". They got quotes for > 1000's > > to > > > migrate the data....a simple script with imapsync would have solved the > > > problem in a matter of minutes with a *much* lower cost. 1 person vs 5 > > for > > > the migration.... > > > > > > I know that I "jumped" in late on this thread, but the real value of > open > > > source (be it Windows/Linux/Unix/Mac) is in the way things are done. > Open > > > Source "people" tend to always work "to the max" and find the best (or > > > better) way to do things. At least - that is my experience. Companies > > need > > > to ack. the fact that these people love what they do and the are > willing > > to > > > "go the extra mile". > > > > > > My 2c :) > > > > > > Pieter > > > > Hi Pieter, > > > > Good point but... > > > > That won't always be the case though. When I was at tech (Unitech) we > > had a class where we went around the room and asked "why do you want > > to get into computing?" I think I was the only one who answered > > "Because I love computers. I love learning and computers change at a > > pace fast enough to keep me satisfied." Most of the answers around the > > room were job security, money etc. > > > > So those who love computers and love experimenting and love being free > > to experiment are naturally a good fit as a Linux admin. However, > > those waters will end up muddied if people start to see Linux as an > > means to their ends (job security, money etc.). > > > > However, with the switching costs of replacing Windows Admins with > > Linux Admins, there's a certain emotional price as well. These are > > people who people have probably gotten to know and like (so long as > > they're not the greasy unlikable types as depicted on the UK version > > of The Office). No one ever thinks about the henchmen.. > > > > Regards, > > Nevyn. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:13:57 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 14:14:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> Message-ID: The operational side of things wasn't mentioned at the NZOSS meeting and rightly so. If I understood correctly, NZOSS are only really aiming for getting a foot in the door. It would be up to the contracted company to figure out how the pilot should be implemented. The target would be to have the MS stack taken away entirely. That's not to say that it couldn't be a rolling implementation by department. We should pay heed to the scope of what was discussed at the meeting in terms of this discussion. (suddenly I feel the need to use the word "Discuss" multiple times...) On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Greg Stevenson wrote: > I agree but that is not how it was presented with respect to the pilot > project intentions. > > I would run parallel for a period and wean users off their licence fee based > apps asap. This approach was not mentioned at the meeting as far as I was > aware. From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:20:29 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 14:20:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <200906291618.09777.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> Message-ID: <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I feel that to approach the CEO straight on would be wrong as he takes advice from his management team and to have made supporters of the the Finance Head and the IT Head first before a meeting would be the way. Kevin 2009/6/30 Nevyn > The operational side of things wasn't mentioned at the NZOSS meeting > and rightly so. If I understood correctly, NZOSS are only really > aiming for getting a foot in the door. It would be up to the > contracted company to figure out how the pilot should be implemented. > The target would be to have the MS stack taken away entirely. That's > not to say that it couldn't be a rolling implementation by department. > > We should pay heed to the scope of what was discussed at the meeting > in terms of this discussion. > > (suddenly I feel the need to use the word "Discuss" multiple times...) > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Greg Stevenson > wrote: > > I agree but that is not how it was presented with respect to the pilot > > project intentions. > > > > I would run parallel for a period and wean users off their licence fee > based > > apps asap. This approach was not mentioned at the meeting as far as I was > > aware. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:47:25 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 14:47:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It has it's pros and cons. An IT manager usually has a vested interest in keeping a software stack to something that they know. If they don't know Linux, they're going to feel threatened by the unknown. Add the FUD factor and you've got some very resistant people. This is regardless of the benefits they might get from an OSS stack. Chances are they're not even really taking note of the benefits. A CEO on the other hand probably doesn't really care either which way. They just want things to work. However, a CEO may not listen if due process hasn't been followed. Also, they may pass it back to the management team who - see above. You're stuck trying to convince a gatekeeper. Sort of like trying to get into a club with sneakers on. You can argue or try to convince the door men all you like, chances are, you're not getting in (and the problem quite often isn't the shoes - shoes are a nice out if they don't like the look of you for whatever reason. It could be argued that the same principles apply to computing). Regards, Nevyn. On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kevin Adams wrote: > Hi, > > I feel that to approach the CEO straight on would be wrong as he takes > advice from his management team and to have made supporters of the the > Finance Head and the IT Head first before a meeting would be the way. > > Kevin > > 2009/6/30 Nevyn > >> The operational side of things wasn't mentioned at the NZOSS meeting >> and rightly so. If I understood correctly, NZOSS are only really >> aiming for getting a foot in the door. It would be up to the >> contracted company to figure out how the pilot should be implemented. >> The target would be to have the MS stack taken away entirely. That's >> not to say that it couldn't be a rolling implementation by department. >> >> We should pay heed to the scope of what was discussed at the meeting >> in terms of this discussion. >> >> (suddenly I feel the need to use the word "Discuss" multiple times...) From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:02:42 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:03:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> Hi, An approach to a CEO is basically a cold sale. Approaching the IT Head, you would be talking at least to a guy educated in computers and he would be the main man. Convince him and you have it done. At least make him "informed" and you are well on the way. Kevin 2009/6/30 Nevyn > It has it's pros and cons. > > An IT manager usually has a vested interest in keeping a software > stack to something that they know. If they don't know Linux, they're > going to feel threatened by the unknown. Add the FUD factor and you've > got some very resistant people. This is regardless of the benefits > they might get from an OSS stack. Chances are they're not even really > taking note of the benefits. > > A CEO on the other hand probably doesn't really care either which way. > They just want things to work. > > However, a CEO may not listen if due process hasn't been followed. > Also, they may pass it back to the management team who - see above. > You're stuck trying to convince a gatekeeper. Sort of like trying to > get into a club with sneakers on. You can argue or try to convince the > door men all you like, chances are, you're not getting in (and the > problem quite often isn't the shoes - shoes are a nice out if they > don't like the look of you for whatever reason. It could be argued > that the same principles apply to computing). > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kevin Adams > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I feel that to approach the CEO straight on would be wrong as he takes > > advice from his management team and to have made supporters of the the > > Finance Head and the IT Head first before a meeting would be the way. > > > > Kevin > > > > 2009/6/30 Nevyn > > > >> The operational side of things wasn't mentioned at the NZOSS meeting > >> and rightly so. If I understood correctly, NZOSS are only really > >> aiming for getting a foot in the door. It would be up to the > >> contracted company to figure out how the pilot should be implemented. > >> The target would be to have the MS stack taken away entirely. That's > >> not to say that it couldn't be a rolling implementation by department. > >> > >> We should pay heed to the scope of what was discussed at the meeting > >> in terms of this discussion. > >> > >> (suddenly I feel the need to use the word "Discuss" multiple times...) > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From pieter at insync.za.net Tue Jun 30 15:06:42 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:06:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <007a01c9f892$9e846440$db8d2cc0$@co.nz> <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This reminded me of my younger days when Sound Blaster cards was still an add on to PC's (yes kids - those days are/where real ;) ) Myself and a friend "ran" a little home/after school PC shop. Out of the profit we made, we bought a spare card and would install it at friends pc's as a demo. After a while you retrieve the card and see the orders rolling in. Can't we do the same using OSS....sneaky, but it works ? I remember at one of the companies I worked - They had 1000+ Novell SuSE Machines - admins.....3 MS came in one day and just to do the same load was well into the 2500+ servers....and 1 admin/20 server (iirc) You show a CEO those type of figures..... Cheers, Pieter On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Nevyn wrote: > It has it's pros and cons. > > An IT manager usually has a vested interest in keeping a software > stack to something that they know. If they don't know Linux, they're > going to feel threatened by the unknown. Add the FUD factor and you've > got some very resistant people. This is regardless of the benefits > they might get from an OSS stack. Chances are they're not even really > taking note of the benefits. > > A CEO on the other hand probably doesn't really care either which way. > They just want things to work. > > However, a CEO may not listen if due process hasn't been followed. > Also, they may pass it back to the management team who - see above. > You're stuck trying to convince a gatekeeper. Sort of like trying to > get into a club with sneakers on. You can argue or try to convince the > door men all you like, chances are, you're not getting in (and the > problem quite often isn't the shoes - shoes are a nice out if they > don't like the look of you for whatever reason. It could be argued > that the same principles apply to computing). > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kevin Adams wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I feel that to approach the CEO straight on would be wrong as he takes >> advice from his management team and to have made supporters of the the >> Finance Head and the IT Head first before a meeting would be the way. >> >> Kevin >> >> 2009/6/30 Nevyn >> >>> The operational side of things wasn't mentioned at the NZOSS meeting >>> and rightly so. If I understood correctly, NZOSS are only really >>> aiming for getting a foot in the door. It would be up to the >>> contracted company to figure out how the pilot should be implemented. >>> The target would be to have the MS stack taken away entirely. That's >>> not to say that it couldn't be a rolling implementation by department. >>> >>> We should pay heed to the scope of what was discussed at the meeting >>> in terms of this discussion. >>> >>> (suddenly I feel the need to use the word "Discuss" multiple times...) > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From james.carroll at xnet.co.nz Tue Jun 30 15:12:22 2009 From: james.carroll at xnet.co.nz (James Carroll) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:13:24 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] new guy alert Message-ID: <20090630031313.7BE8C109807B@titania.wxnz.net> Hi guys! I got a Linux Eee PC 701 last year, just for shits 'n giggles. It's been quite fun having a little toy to browse the web with, use IRC, listen to music etc.. Lately I'm taking it places and seeing tempting unsecured wireless networks everywhere, but we wont go there! I want to save up some $$ and get me a proper mobile internet (I dunno the terminology), so I'm not limited to wireless LAN at home. I love the fact that my widdle laptop was so cheap, so low spec and yet able to do the job fine, and so easy on the juice! 4 hours or whatever. It's nice! I got an internet gf coming in 2 weeks, so I'm preparing myself for her (don't laugh). But after that, i want to upgrade with more RAM, a bigger solid state hd, possibly get a bigger battery pack if its not going to hinder the screen folding back, put a decent Linux on so I can run XChat and have more space for saved youtube clips (theres only so many times I'm prepared to reload Flight of the conchords - sugalumps), and most importantly, get mobile internet! I've been getting some advice on geekzone, so I'm going to come check you guys out and see what the group is all about. Eventually I will need your expert help and super linux solving powers to get my baby online haha. Freakalad suggested the XT Mobile USB hardware could be usable with work. So I'm hoping someone will be able to help. :) Can someone hook me up with the address and date of the next usergroup meeting? Hope to see you all there. P.S. I learnt how to use vi today. Kinda. From greg at primesoft.co.nz Tue Jun 30 15:17:28 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:17:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> References: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00cf01c9f931$4d39d800$e7ad8800$@co.nz> Just to let you know that one of the key changes that had occurred over the last few months has been the move by NZOSS to engage the CEOs as opposed to CIOs. Apparently this has been met by some level of success due to Microsoft's change of deal with Government agencies. I think this is what we are supposed to leverage off to get a foot in the door on pilot projects. One of the things I got out of the meeting. :-) -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Kevin Adams Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 3:03 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... Hi, An approach to a CEO is basically a cold sale. Approaching the IT Head, you would be talking at least to a guy educated in computers and he would be the main man. Convince him and you have it done. At least make him "informed" and you are well on the way. Kevin 2009/6/30 Nevyn > It has it's pros and cons. > > An IT manager usually has a vested interest in keeping a software > stack to something that they know. If they don't know Linux, they're > going to feel threatened by the unknown. Add the FUD factor and you've > got some very resistant people. This is regardless of the benefits > they might get from an OSS stack. Chances are they're not even really > taking note of the benefits. > > A CEO on the other hand probably doesn't really care either which way. > They just want things to work. > > However, a CEO may not listen if due process hasn't been followed. > Also, they may pass it back to the management team who - see above. > You're stuck trying to convince a gatekeeper. Sort of like trying to > get into a club with sneakers on. You can argue or try to convince the > door men all you like, chances are, you're not getting in (and the > problem quite often isn't the shoes - shoes are a nice out if they > don't like the look of you for whatever reason. It could be argued > that the same principles apply to computing). > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kevin Adams > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I feel that to approach the CEO straight on would be wrong as he takes > > advice from his management team and to have made supporters of the the > > Finance Head and the IT Head first before a meeting would be the way. > > > > Kevin > > > > 2009/6/30 Nevyn > > > >> The operational side of things wasn't mentioned at the NZOSS meeting > >> and rightly so. If I understood correctly, NZOSS are only really > >> aiming for getting a foot in the door. It would be up to the > >> contracted company to figure out how the pilot should be implemented. > >> The target would be to have the MS stack taken away entirely. That's > >> not to say that it couldn't be a rolling implementation by department. > >> > >> We should pay heed to the scope of what was discussed at the meeting > >> in terms of this discussion. > >> > >> (suddenly I feel the need to use the word "Discuss" multiple times...) > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:31:19 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:31:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> References: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That's the problem though isn't it? If you try to convince someone who has a vested interest in not being convinced, you've got a hell of a battle on your hands. I applied for a job once where 2 companies had merged. They had put everyone on the same system and gotten rid of their entire I.T. department except for one guy who just didn't seem to have any sort of managerial experience at all. He asked "if you have an issue to fix and several fixes, how would you approach it?". The answer seemed obvious to me and I was left wondering what sort of a Mickey Anyway, if I had been offered the job, I would've turned it down. He had said something about having to buy the MS Exchange Server (or whatever it's called) pretty soon. I pointed out Zimbra - he wasn't completely new to Linux. He had it running on a virtual machine (which he never used). However, he was never going to even have a look at Zimbra because that would mean moving away from the software stack that he knows and uses. He would rather have to learn Exchange Server configuration rather than learn an OSS solution. It's not that it's not beneficial - he wouldn't know as he never even look at it. It's more that MS is what he knows (even if he doesn't know the product) and that's what he's going to do. An I.T. manager who doesn't know the system has a right to feel insecure by it all and that's the challenge that we all face. A cold sale based on benefits is probably significantly easier than convincing someone of the benefits of the "other side" and potentially doing them out of a job. If you've been knocking on the door of the CIO for ages and get no answer, then perhaps moving on to the CEO isn't as bad an idea as you think. Regards, Nevyn. On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Kevin Adams wrote: > Hi, > > An approach to a CEO is basically a cold sale. > > Approaching the IT Head, you would be talking at least to a guy educated in > computers and he would be the main man. Convince him and you have it done. > At least make him "informed" and you are well on the way. > > Kevin > > 2009/6/30 Nevyn > >> It has it's pros and cons. >> >> An IT manager usually has a vested interest in keeping a software >> stack to something that they know. If they don't know Linux, they're >> going to feel threatened by the unknown. Add the FUD factor and you've >> got some very resistant people. This is regardless of the benefits >> they might get from an OSS stack. Chances are they're not even really >> taking note of the benefits. >> >> A CEO on the other hand probably doesn't really care either which way. >> They just want things to work. >> >> However, a CEO may not listen if due process hasn't been followed. >> Also, they may pass it back to the management team who - see above. >> You're stuck trying to convince a gatekeeper. Sort of like trying to >> get into a club with sneakers on. You can argue or try to convince the >> door men all you like, chances are, you're not getting in (and the >> problem quite often isn't the shoes - shoes are a nice out if they >> don't like the look of you for whatever reason. It could be argued >> that the same principles apply to computing). >> >> Regards, >> Nevyn. From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:40:19 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:40:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: References: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920906292040r732bb846j1e57ea00f03d1671@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps knocking on the Finance Manager's door on the way to the CEO's office really is the way. Convince him of the obvious financial benefits and take him along to meet with the CEO. Both then could use a baseball bat to convince the CIO. Kevin 2009/6/30 Nevyn > That's the problem though isn't it? If you try to convince someone who > has a vested interest in not being convinced, you've got a hell of a > battle on your hands. > > I applied for a job once where 2 companies had merged. They had put > everyone on the same system and gotten rid of their entire I.T. > department except for one guy who just didn't seem to have any sort of > managerial experience at all. He asked "if you have an issue to fix > and several fixes, how would you approach it?". The answer seemed > obvious to me and I was left wondering what sort of a Mickey Anyway, > if I had been offered the job, I would've turned it down. He had said > something about having to buy the MS Exchange Server (or whatever it's > called) pretty soon. I pointed out Zimbra - he wasn't completely new > to Linux. He had it running on a virtual machine (which he never > used). However, he was never going to even have a look at Zimbra > because that would mean moving away from the software stack that he > knows and uses. He would rather have to learn Exchange Server > configuration rather than learn an OSS solution. > > It's not that it's not beneficial - he wouldn't know as he never even > look at it. It's more that MS is what he knows (even if he doesn't > know the product) and that's what he's going to do. An I.T. manager > who doesn't know the system has a right to feel insecure by it all and > that's the challenge that we all face. A cold sale based on benefits > is probably significantly easier than convincing someone of the > benefits of the "other side" and potentially doing them out of a job. > > If you've been knocking on the door of the CIO for ages and get no > answer, then perhaps moving on to the CEO isn't as bad an idea as you > think. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Kevin Adams > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > An approach to a CEO is basically a cold sale. > > > > Approaching the IT Head, you would be talking at least to a guy educated > in > > computers and he would be the main man. Convince him and you have it > done. > > At least make him "informed" and you are well on the way. > > > > Kevin > > > > 2009/6/30 Nevyn > > > >> It has it's pros and cons. > >> > >> An IT manager usually has a vested interest in keeping a software > >> stack to something that they know. If they don't know Linux, they're > >> going to feel threatened by the unknown. Add the FUD factor and you've > >> got some very resistant people. This is regardless of the benefits > >> they might get from an OSS stack. Chances are they're not even really > >> taking note of the benefits. > >> > >> A CEO on the other hand probably doesn't really care either which way. > >> They just want things to work. > >> > >> However, a CEO may not listen if due process hasn't been followed. > >> Also, they may pass it back to the management team who - see above. > >> You're stuck trying to convince a gatekeeper. Sort of like trying to > >> get into a club with sneakers on. You can argue or try to convince the > >> door men all you like, chances are, you're not getting in (and the > >> problem quite often isn't the shoes - shoes are a nice out if they > >> don't like the look of you for whatever reason. It could be argued > >> that the same principles apply to computing). > >> > >> Regards, > >> Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:43:28 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:43:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] new guy alert In-Reply-To: <20090630031313.7BE8C109807B@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630031313.7BE8C109807B@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM, James Carroll wrote: > Hi guys! I got a Linux Eee PC 701 last year, just for shits 'n giggles. It's > been quite fun having a little toy to browse the web with, use IRC, listen to > music etc.. Lately I'm taking it places and seeing tempting unsecured > wireless networks everywhere, but we wont go there! I want to save up some $$ > and get me a proper mobile internet (I dunno the terminology), so I'm not > limited to wireless LAN at home. I love the fact that my widdle laptop was so > cheap, so low spec and yet able to do the job fine, and so easy on the juice! > 4 hours or whatever. It's nice! > > I got an internet gf coming in 2 weeks, so I'm preparing myself for her > (don't laugh). But after that, i want to upgrade with more RAM, a bigger > solid state hd, possibly get a bigger battery pack if its not going to hinder > the screen folding back, put a decent Linux on so I can run XChat and have > more space for saved youtube clips (theres only so many times I'm prepared to > reload Flight of the conchords - sugalumps), and most importantly, get mobile > internet! I've been getting some advice on geekzone, so I'm going to come > check you guys out and see what the group is all about. Eventually I will > need your expert help and super linux solving powers to get my baby online > haha. Freakalad suggested the XT Mobile USB hardware could be usable with > work. So I'm hoping someone will be able to help. :) > > Can someone hook me up with the address and date of the next usergroup > meeting? Hope to see you all there. > > P.S. I learnt how to use vi today. Kinda. Hi James, Vodaphone's offerings also work with Linux. In fact, some of it "just works"(tm) - i.e. no configuration needed. Haven't really looked into Telecoms offerings. I think their older stuff was just rebranded "whatever" so they worked fairly well and chances are the whole XT branding uses a rebranded something else (loving my technical knowledge today! I'm on fire!) so chances are support is already in there. As for the next LUG meeting - it's next week Monday. I'm going to do an "official" post about it soon (I'm sure this is my second or third time saying this today) so stay tuned (same bat channel and all that gaff). Getting online shouldn't be a problem - you may even find yourself surprised - though it's always nice to have a fallback position. Welcome to the list. I'm quite convinced that's the only way to use vi... just kinda. You may find that nano is more your speed though it's good to know a few basic things in vi given it's availability just about everywhere due to it's minimal dependencies. Regards, Nevyn. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:48:11 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:48:59 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] new guy alert In-Reply-To: <20090630031313.7BE8C109807B@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630031313.7BE8C109807B@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770906292048x284d811eo4a5cd366dd8af47d@mail.gmail.com> 2009/6/30 James Carroll : > I got an internet gf coming in 2 weeks, so I'm preparing myself for her > (don't laugh). But after that, i want to upgrade with more RAM, a bigger ok, i gotta ask: internet gf. what? how? where? From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:50:05 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:50:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906292040r732bb846j1e57ea00f03d1671@mail.gmail.com> References: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906292040r732bb846j1e57ea00f03d1671@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm sure there's an RFC in there somewhere. A standard for convincing people via baseball bats ;) Standard weight and size of said bat, swinging vs. butting and order in which these two techniques should be done. Threatening as a means of "handshaking" the whole process, how said process should be terminated (standard interrupt by other parties or self interrupted due to bloody mess getting on shoes) etc. On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Kevin Adams wrote: > Perhaps knocking on the Finance Manager's door on the way to the CEO's > office really is the way. Convince him of the obvious financial benefits and > take him along to meet with the CEO. Both then could use a baseball bat to > convince the CIO. > > Kevin > > 2009/6/30 Nevyn > >> That's the problem though isn't it? If you try to convince someone who >> has a vested interest in not being convinced, you've got a hell of a >> battle on your hands. >> >> I applied for a job once where 2 companies had merged. They had put >> everyone on the same system and gotten rid of their entire I.T. >> department except for one guy who just didn't seem to have any sort of >> managerial experience at all. He asked "if you have an issue to fix >> and several fixes, how would you approach it?". The answer seemed >> obvious to me and I was left wondering what sort of a Mickey Anyway, >> if I had been offered the job, I would've turned it down. He had said >> something about having to buy the MS Exchange Server (or whatever it's >> called) pretty soon. I pointed out Zimbra - he wasn't completely new >> to Linux. He had it running on a virtual machine (which he never >> used). However, he was never going to even have a look at Zimbra >> because that would mean moving away from the software stack that he >> knows and uses. He would rather have to learn Exchange Server >> configuration rather than learn an OSS solution. >> >> It's not that it's not beneficial - he wouldn't know as he never even >> look at it. It's more that MS is what he knows (even if he doesn't >> know the product) and that's what he's going to do. An I.T. manager >> who doesn't know the system has a right to feel insecure by it all and >> that's the challenge that we all face. A cold sale based on benefits >> is probably significantly easier than convincing someone of the >> benefits of the "other side" and potentially doing them out of a job. >> >> If you've been knocking on the door of the CIO for ages and get no >> answer, then perhaps moving on to the CEO isn't as bad an idea as you >> think. >> >> Regards, >> Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:55:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:55:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] new guy alert In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770906292048x284d811eo4a5cd366dd8af47d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090630031313.7BE8C109807B@titania.wxnz.net> <2f3aa2770906292048x284d811eo4a5cd366dd8af47d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > 2009/6/30 James Carroll : >> I got an internet gf coming in 2 weeks, so I'm preparing myself for her >> (don't laugh). But after that, i want to upgrade with more RAM, a bigger > > ok, i gotta ask: internet gf. what? how? where? A list of definitions can be found here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=internet%20girlfriend My favorite one is this: Internet Girlfriend: Very common contradiction made by users of the internet. There are no girls on the internet, so an "Internet Girlfriend" is not real. 37: The are NO girls on the Internet. (Rules v2) "You can't have an Internet Girlfriend, there are NO girls on the Internet" Not at all true. Anyway, the point about contradictions - he will be meeting his internet gf in which case she transforms from being an internet gf to a friend who is a girl and may even transform to girl friend. (Note how trendy I am - I used the word Transform just like the movies! Although I think those can only transform into 2 states). Regards, Nevyn. From tobias.gerschner at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:58:58 2009 From: tobias.gerschner at gmail.com (Tobias Gerschner) Date: Tue Jun 30 15:59:07 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization Message-ID: Hi, Looking forward to finally contribute something. As mentioned I'll prepare the Xen and VirtualBox part. I have to pass with the Xen Source requests though as I have not explored this option enough to lecture about it. regards -- Tobias Gerschner Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 16:02:33 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Jun 30 16:02:41 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Tobias Gerschner wrote: > Hi, > > > Looking forward to finally contribute something. As mentioned I'll > prepare the Xen and VirtualBox part. I have to pass with the Xen > Source requests though as I have not explored this option enough to > lecture about it. > > regards > > -- > Tobias Gerschner > Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Brilliant :) I was waiting for confirmation before making an announcement. As for Xen - we'll put that on the back burner. I like it from a concept point of view and it works really well for some things but I wouldn't use it at home... Regards, Nevyn. From juanvr at live.com Tue Jun 30 16:23:07 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan) Date: Tue Jun 30 16:23:35 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] new guy alert In-Reply-To: References: <20090630031313.7BE8C109807B@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: Hi Nevyn, Just FYI, the XT mobile broadband isn't the CDMA stuff they "have" been using. So much better speeds etc. Hardware wise I reckon it's still Sierra Wireless hardware (Which works well in Linux). Cheers, Juan -------------------------------------------------- From: "Nevyn" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:43 PM To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] new guy alert > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM, James Carroll > wrote: >> Hi guys! I got a Linux Eee PC 701 last year, just for shits 'n giggles. >> It's >> been quite fun having a little toy to browse the web with, use IRC, >> listen to >> music etc.. Lately I'm taking it places and seeing tempting unsecured >> wireless networks everywhere, but we wont go there! I want to save up >> some $$ >> and get me a proper mobile internet (I dunno the terminology), so I'm not >> limited to wireless LAN at home. I love the fact that my widdle laptop >> was so >> cheap, so low spec and yet able to do the job fine, and so easy on the >> juice! >> 4 hours or whatever. It's nice! >> >> I got an internet gf coming in 2 weeks, so I'm preparing myself for her >> (don't laugh). But after that, i want to upgrade with more RAM, a bigger >> solid state hd, possibly get a bigger battery pack if its not going to >> hinder >> the screen folding back, put a decent Linux on so I can run XChat and >> have >> more space for saved youtube clips (theres only so many times I'm >> prepared to >> reload Flight of the conchords - sugalumps), and most importantly, get >> mobile >> internet! I've been getting some advice on geekzone, so I'm going to come >> check you guys out and see what the group is all about. Eventually I will >> need your expert help and super linux solving powers to get my baby >> online >> haha. Freakalad suggested the XT Mobile USB hardware could be usable with >> work. So I'm hoping someone will be able to help. :) >> >> Can someone hook me up with the address and date of the next usergroup >> meeting? Hope to see you all there. >> >> P.S. I learnt how to use vi today. Kinda. > > Hi James, > > Vodaphone's offerings also work with Linux. In fact, some of it "just > works"(tm) - i.e. no configuration needed. Haven't really looked into > Telecoms offerings. I think their older stuff was just rebranded > "whatever" so they worked fairly well and chances are the whole XT > branding uses a rebranded something else (loving my technical > knowledge today! I'm on fire!) so chances are support is already in > there. > > As for the next LUG meeting - it's next week Monday. I'm going to do > an "official" post about it soon (I'm sure this is my second or third > time saying this today) so stay tuned (same bat channel and all that > gaff). Getting online shouldn't be a problem - you may even find > yourself surprised - though it's always nice to have a fallback > position. > > Welcome to the list. I'm quite convinced that's the only way to use > vi... just kinda. You may find that nano is more your speed though > it's good to know a few basic things in vi given it's availability > just about everywhere due to it's minimal dependencies. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From james.carroll at xnet.co.nz Tue Jun 30 17:08:41 2009 From: james.carroll at xnet.co.nz (James Carroll) Date: Tue Jun 30 17:09:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <20090630035618.40BEB1DB8158@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: <20090630050938.F41FC1DB810D@titania.wxnz.net> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM, James Carroll > wrote: >> Hi guys! I got a Linux Eee PC 701 last year, just for shits 'n giggles. >> It's been quite fun having a little toy to browse the web with, use IRC, >> listen to music etc.. Lately I'm taking it places and seeing tempting >> unsecured wireless networks everywhere, but we wont go there! I want to >> save up some $$ and get me a proper mobile internet (I dunno the >> terminology), so I'm not limited to wireless LAN at home. I love the fact >> that my widdle laptop was so cheap, so low spec and yet able to do the job >> fine, and so easy on the juice! 4 hours or whatever. It's nice! >> >> I got an internet gf coming in 2 weeks, so I'm preparing myself for her >> (don't laugh). But after that, i want to upgrade with more RAM, a bigger >> solid state hd, possibly get a bigger battery pack if its not going to >> hinder the screen folding back, put a decent Linux on so I can run XChat >> and have more space for saved youtube clips (theres only so many times I'm >> prepared to reload Flight of the conchords - sugalumps), and most >> importantly, get mobile internet! I've been getting some advice on >> geekzone, so I'm going to come check you guys out and see what the group >> is all about. Eventually I will need your expert help and super linux >> solving powers to get my baby online haha. Freakalad suggested the XT >> Mobile USB hardware could be usable with work. So I'm hoping someone will >> be able to help. :) >> Can someone hook me up with the address and date of the next usergroup >> meeting? Hope to see you all there. >> >> P.S. I learnt how to use vi today. Kinda. > Hi James, > Vodaphone's offerings also work with Linux. In fact, some of it "just > works"(tm) - i.e. no configuration needed. Haven't really looked into > Telecoms offerings. I think their older stuff was just rebranded > "whatever" so they worked fairly well and chances are the whole XT > branding uses a rebranded something else (loving my technical > knowledge today! I'm on fire!) so chances are support is already in > there. Gah! I just rang Vodafone to get 1. prices and 2. modem brandname/model information, so I could google for drivers and/or linux support information. They want to charge $40 monthly for an open term 200mb plan, and she couldnt tell me the brand or chipset information of the modem.. all she knew was that it was a Vodem Vstick.. I tried to explain I wanted to find out if drivers were available on the internet, and she asks if I'm using Windows or Mac. "I already told you, I'm using Linux". Then she says the only supported operating systems are Windows vista, xp, 2000, etc. "Someone might have made drivers on the internet. If you give me the brand name and model number I could find out". Shen then explains if they worked with Linux, she'd have received training about it. Jeez! Now Nevyn, you've just told me it works, but I wanted a little more verification, just in case.. you know? Anyway, even assuming it will work for me, the price is too steep. Their modem itself is $250.. $50 more than the Telecom mobile modem. And Telecom mobile do a 500mb open term contract for $35, and from reports on an ubuntu forum it does work (as well). So I'm thinking I'm leaning towards them now. Now the above two paragraphs sound very sh*tty, but I'm not pissed off.. I'm just keen on collecting data (compatibility and prices) before I part with my money. :) > As for the next LUG meeting - it's next week Monday. I'm going to do > an "official" post about it soon (I'm sure this is my second or third > time saying this today) so stay tuned (same bat channel and all that > gaff). Getting online shouldn't be a problem - you may even find > yourself surprised - though it's always nice to have a fallback > position. It's sounding easier and easier the more information I'm collecting today! > Welcome to the list. I'm quite convinced that's the only way to use > vi... just kinda. You may find that nano is more your speed though > it's good to know a few basic things in vi given it's availability > just about everywhere due to it's minimal dependencies. > Regards, > Nevyn. I forgot about nano. But now that I've read up on vi, I'll just stick with it. I have a friend that uses vi with such amazing speed. It's pretty to watch. Btw. My internet girlfriend is someone I've been talking to on IRC and MSN for about a year or two. Shes finally decided it'd be cool if she flew up to Auckland to meet me. It's a little off topic, but its the financial reason I havent given my netbook her upgrades yet. hehe One last thing... How formal is this mailing list? I'm wary of filling any lists I'm on with noise. From baldwin.bryanmichael at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 19:15:39 2009 From: baldwin.bryanmichael at gmail.com (Bryan Baldwin) Date: Tue Jun 30 19:15:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] GNU+Linux from Source Code Message-ID: <1246346140.3147.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello all, I'm developing a prototype build system for GNU+Linux that can be used stand-alone or as the base for other more refined distributions with specialized goals. My impetus is to have a flexible design for a system I would love administering. The vision for my project is to be to Archlinux what gNewSense is to Ubuntu. I will not be creating any public repositories for binary redistributable packages (although others may wish to do so). I only intend to maintain a collection of scripted build instructions, an init system, admin tools, and compiled programs that can be used to compile and manage a GNU+Linux system from source with fine controls and minimal fuss. I don't have any set goals for size, speed, or user application. I'm not worried about being the most minimal, fastest, or convenient distribution. Because my design is focused on versatility and flexibility, I expect its greatest utility will be as a distribution maker's distribution and basesystem. I've named my project _GNU+Linux from Source Code_, a fully free meta-distribution of the GNU+Linux operating system. Bryan From james.carroll at xnet.co.nz Tue Jun 30 19:51:16 2009 From: james.carroll at xnet.co.nz (James Carroll) Date: Tue Jun 30 19:51:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu RAM requirements Message-ID: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> I'm going to put Ubuntu on my EeePC 4G netbook. It has 512mb currently, runs Xandros or Debian, (?) and its not slow in the slightest. But I want my system to be comfortable with Ubuntu. Especially since my SSD is soldered in and cant easily be replaced.. so less swapping would be good! Theres a dude who may sell me a 1gb stick for $10, which seems like a good deal. The netbook will only take 2gb total, and money here is tight.. what with needing to look good for my internet gf in two weeks (cough). So if I could spend $10 instead of $40 and get away with it, I'd be very pleased. So what do you guys think.. is 1gb RAM good enough for Ubuntu with just web browsing (maybe 5-10 tabs), chat, and a bit of music going at once? Would swapping be able to be switched off with that much RAM? Is that advisable even? I bought the Linux version of this netbook because it was cheaper, and because the excessive swapping on Windows would have worn out the SSD a lot faster. So I'd just like to make my widdle laptop last as long as possible. :) From juanvr at live.com Tue Jun 30 19:58:34 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan) Date: Tue Jun 30 19:59:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: Hey James, I run a P4 at the office with 512MB of ram. Ubuntu 9 runs pretty well... Mind you, it just runs Asterisk and a MySQL database (in a mini lab environment). Should be good enough for Firefox and your media player... "excessive swapping on Windows would have worn out the SSD" My brain cannot understand this statement. -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Carroll" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:51 PM To: Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu RAM requirements > I'm going to put Ubuntu on my EeePC 4G netbook. It has 512mb currently, > runs > Xandros or Debian, (?) and its not slow in the slightest. But I want my > system to be comfortable with Ubuntu. Especially since my SSD is soldered > in > and cant easily be replaced.. so less swapping would be good! Theres a > dude > who may sell me a 1gb stick for $10, which seems like a good deal. The > netbook will only take 2gb total, and money here is tight.. what with > needing > to look good for my internet gf in two weeks (cough). So if I could spend > $10 > instead of $40 and get away with it, I'd be very pleased. > > So what do you guys think.. is 1gb RAM good enough for Ubuntu with just > web > browsing (maybe 5-10 tabs), chat, and a bit of music going at once? Would > swapping be able to be switched off with that much RAM? Is that advisable > even? > > I bought the Linux version of this netbook because it was cheaper, and > because the excessive swapping on Windows would have worn out the SSD a > lot > faster. So I'd just like to make my widdle laptop last as long as > possible. > :) > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From shodan.triopt at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 22:32:59 2009 From: shodan.triopt at gmail.com (Bjoern Gross-Hohnacker) Date: Tue Jun 30 22:33:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: References: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: <4A49E9DB.1040701@gmail.com> Hi James, I have to agree with Juan that 512MB should already be quite enough. You should actually gain performance and memory by using a different Window Manager as XFCE provided for example by Xubuntu or turning off the eye candy in System -> Preferences -> Appearance -> Visual Effects when using Gnome. Also using a less resource intensive media player as for example VLC helps. If you are still keen on getting the extra RAM you really don't need anything more that one Gig for standard usage. Cheers, Bjoern Juan wrote: > Hey James, > > I run a P4 at the office with 512MB of ram. Ubuntu 9 runs pretty well... > > Mind you, it just runs Asterisk and a MySQL database (in a mini lab > environment). > > Should be good enough for Firefox and your media player... > > "excessive swapping on Windows would have worn out the SSD" My brain > cannot understand this statement. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "James Carroll" > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:51 PM > To: > Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu RAM requirements > >> I'm going to put Ubuntu on my EeePC 4G netbook. It has 512mb >> currently, runs >> Xandros or Debian, (?) and its not slow in the slightest. But I want my >> system to be comfortable with Ubuntu. Especially since my SSD is >> soldered in >> and cant easily be replaced.. so less swapping would be good! Theres >> a dude >> who may sell me a 1gb stick for $10, which seems like a good deal. The >> netbook will only take 2gb total, and money here is tight.. what with >> needing >> to look good for my internet gf in two weeks (cough). So if I could >> spend $10 >> instead of $40 and get away with it, I'd be very pleased. >> >> So what do you guys think.. is 1gb RAM good enough for Ubuntu with >> just web >> browsing (maybe 5-10 tabs), chat, and a bit of music going at once? >> Would >> swapping be able to be switched off with that much RAM? Is that >> advisable >> even? >> >> I bought the Linux version of this netbook because it was cheaper, and >> because the excessive swapping on Windows would have worn out the SSD >> a lot >> faster. So I'd just like to make my widdle laptop last as long as >> possible. >> :) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Jun 30 22:34:57 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Jun 30 22:35:11 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> (James Carroll's message of "30 Jun 2009 19:51:16 +1200") References: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: <871vp2qab2.fsf@rimspace.net> James Carroll writes: > I'm going to put Ubuntu on my EeePC 4G netbook. It has 512mb currently, runs > Xandros or Debian, (?) and its not slow in the slightest. But I want my > system to be comfortable with Ubuntu. [...] > So what do you guys think.. is 1gb RAM good enough for Ubuntu with just web > browsing (maybe 5-10 tabs), chat, and a bit of music going at once? Yes, generally speaking. > Would swapping be able to be switched off with that much RAM? You can switch it off with any amount. But, seriously ... > Is that advisable even? ... it won't hurt, but having a bit of swap around isn't going to hurt much either, and you might benefit from it if something does want a tiny bit more memory than you conveniently have on hand. Regards, Daniel Plus, if you want to suspend to disk you need swap space with Linux. From james.carroll at xnet.co.nz Tue Jun 30 23:06:52 2009 From: james.carroll at xnet.co.nz (James Carroll) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:07:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: <871vp2qab2.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <20090630110713.8BF401DB8285@titania.wxnz.net> Thanks for the advice Juan, Bjoern and Daniel. I'm trying out the live boot ubuntu tonight. It's the version thats optimised and adjusted especially for netbooks. The system requirements are 384mb ram, so I should be safe for now. But I think it would be a good idea to go up to 1gb ram anyway when its only roughly $20-30 from an online store. I might want to indulge in heavier secondary interests in the future you see. But for now.. I should be sweet. Thanks again! From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Jun 30 23:08:31 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:08:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630075126.81074109806E@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: I need to ask the obvious - what about the distribution formerly known as ubuntu-eee (now known as Easy Peasy) ? It was designed to work on Eee from the 701 model upward. http://www.geteasypeasy.com/ I run this on mmy 701 quite happily. The default Xandros ship isnt bad but by the time id customized to to how I wanted, I had 'fun' managing things like available disk space... A photo, taken at SoftwareFreedomDay 2008: http://gallery.blakjak.net/d/9285-2/IMG_0045.JPG Taken from http://gallery.blakjak.net/v/IT/SoftwareFreedomDay2008/ See also the Facebook edition: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=35203&id=537606906&l=771beb3df8 The photo shows the login screen with 'advanced mode' enabled under Xandros. It was sometime after SFD that I went to Ubuntu-Eee and never looked back... Mark. On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, James Carroll wrote: > I'm going to put Ubuntu on my EeePC 4G netbook. It has 512mb currently, runs > Xandros or Debian, (?) and its not slow in the slightest. But I want my > system to be comfortable with Ubuntu. Especially since my SSD is soldered in > and cant easily be replaced.. so less swapping would be good! Theres a dude > who may sell me a 1gb stick for $10, which seems like a good deal. The > netbook will only take 2gb total, and money here is tight.. what with needing > to look good for my internet gf in two weeks (cough). So if I could spend $10 > instead of $40 and get away with it, I'd be very pleased. > > So what do you guys think.. is 1gb RAM good enough for Ubuntu with just web > browsing (maybe 5-10 tabs), chat, and a bit of music going at once? Would > swapping be able to be switched off with that much RAM? Is that advisable > even? > > I bought the Linux version of this netbook because it was cheaper, and > because the excessive swapping on Windows would have worn out the SSD a lot > faster. So I'd just like to make my widdle laptop last as long as possible. > :) > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From james.carroll at xnet.co.nz Tue Jun 30 23:26:17 2009 From: james.carroll at xnet.co.nz (James Carroll) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:26:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090630112639.407301DB81EA@titania.wxnz.net> On 30/06/09, Mark Foster wrote: > I need to ask the obvious - what about the distribution formerly known as > ubuntu-eee (now known as Easy Peasy) ? > It was designed to work on Eee from the 701 model upward. > http://www.geteasypeasy.com/ > I run this on mmy 701 quite happily. > The default Xandros ship isnt bad but by the time id customized to to how > I wanted, I had 'fun' managing things like available disk space... I'm looking at the easypeasy site, and to be honest, I think I prefer a more tradtional desktop, even despite the 7.1" screen. I'm not using the default Xandros anymore. I did some sort of OS unlock when I got the machine, following directions from a website. I dont know Linux at all really, so I'm not sure what I'm running anymore! I think its Debian and KDE.. But that may change by tomorrow morning. :) I've bookmarked the site anyway. I may give it a chance if I'm unhappy with the netbook remix Ubuntu. Or bored. :) > A photo, taken at SoftwareFreedomDay 2008: > http://gallery.blakjak.net/d/9285-2/IMG_0045.JPG > Taken from > http://gallery.blakjak.net/v/IT/SoftwareFreedomDay2008/ > See also the Facebook edition: > http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=35203&id=537606906&l=771beb3df8 > The photo shows the login screen with 'advanced mode' enabled under > Xandros. It was sometime after SFD that I went to Ubuntu-Eee and never > looked back... Yep, looks like what I have here too. But.. time for a change (for me too). From juanvr at live.com Tue Jun 30 23:30:37 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:31:25 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: <20090630112639.407301DB81EA@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630112639.407301DB81EA@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: James, my own personal opinion is that you just run vanilla Ubuntu 9. You've got enough grunt to run it pretty well (for your goals). Don't get me wrong... It could run better with more shaved down distros or with some haxing, but for a user like you? Nah, vanilla should work nicely :) -------------------------------------------------- From: "James Carroll" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:26 PM To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Ubuntu RAM requirements > On 30/06/09, Mark Foster wrote: >> I need to ask the obvious - what about the distribution formerly known as >> ubuntu-eee (now known as Easy Peasy) ? >> It was designed to work on Eee from the 701 model upward. >> http://www.geteasypeasy.com/ >> I run this on mmy 701 quite happily. >> The default Xandros ship isnt bad but by the time id customized to to how >> I wanted, I had 'fun' managing things like available disk space... > > I'm looking at the easypeasy site, and to be honest, I think I prefer a > more > tradtional desktop, even despite the 7.1" screen. I'm not using the > default > Xandros anymore. I did some sort of OS unlock when I got the machine, > following directions from a website. I dont know Linux at all really, so > I'm > not sure what I'm running anymore! I think its Debian and KDE.. But that > may > change by tomorrow morning. :) > > I've bookmarked the site anyway. I may give it a chance if I'm unhappy > with > the netbook remix Ubuntu. Or bored. :) > >> A photo, taken at SoftwareFreedomDay 2008: >> http://gallery.blakjak.net/d/9285-2/IMG_0045.JPG >> Taken from >> http://gallery.blakjak.net/v/IT/SoftwareFreedomDay2008/ >> See also the Facebook edition: >> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=35203&id=537606906&l=771beb3df8 >> The photo shows the login screen with 'advanced mode' enabled under >> Xandros. It was sometime after SFD that I went to Ubuntu-Eee and never >> looked back... > > Yep, looks like what I have here too. But.. time for a change (for me > too). > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Jun 30 23:32:47 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:32:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: <20090630112639.407301DB81EA@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630112639.407301DB81EA@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: > I'm looking at the easypeasy site, and to be honest, I think I prefer a more > tradtional desktop, even despite the 7.1" screen. I'm not using the default > Xandros anymore. I did some sort of OS unlock when I got the machine, > following directions from a website. I dont know Linux at all really, so I'm > not sure what I'm running anymore! I think its Debian and KDE.. But that may > change by tomorrow morning. :) My gut feeling would've been to agree - but after I tried it, it's not that different - but it does save a lot of mucking around with small keys / small UI, to find and open applications, etc. 90% of what I do can be launched from the same front menu page (the favourites group) - when it comes down to it, most of my Eee usage involves Firefox, Pidgin, and a Terminal. Either way all the best to you! :-) Feel free to report back to us how you go... :) Mark. From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Jun 30 23:37:26 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:37:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] GNU+Linux from Source Code In-Reply-To: <1246346140.3147.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1246346140.3147.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Bryan, You may like to consider contributing to NZLUG as well, there's a wider selection of people who may have interest in your plans. Good luck... Mark. On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Bryan Baldwin wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm developing a prototype build system for GNU+Linux that can be used > stand-alone or as the base for other more refined distributions with > specialized goals. My impetus is to have a flexible design for a system > I would love administering. The vision for my project is to be to > Archlinux what gNewSense is to Ubuntu. > > I will not be creating any public repositories for binary > redistributable packages (although others may wish to do so). I only > intend to maintain a collection of scripted build instructions, an init > system, admin tools, and compiled programs that can be used to compile > and manage a GNU+Linux system from source with fine controls and minimal > fuss. > > I don't have any set goals for size, speed, or user application. I'm not > worried about being the most minimal, fastest, or convenient > distribution. Because my design is focused on versatility and > flexibility, I expect its greatest utility will be as a distribution > maker's distribution and basesystem. > > I've named my project _GNU+Linux from Source Code_, a fully free > meta-distribution of the GNU+Linux operating system. > > Bryan > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Jun 30 23:41:23 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:41:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] NZOSS meeting... In-Reply-To: <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> References: <00bd01c9f924$4f231d50$ed6957f0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291858j6f76208ey833e985c236c9ee5@mail.gmail.com> <00c301c9f927$4b3c8cf0$e1b5a6d0$@co.nz> <5b6001920906291920w5daab995j9e88a4412a3e72e5@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920906292002p27e14c50md0e72975a5dd743d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kevin I think the two-pronged approach has some smarts; the CEO is going to consult his head techies (CIO/CTO) and they are, as Nevyn says, likely to steer towards the environments theyre familiar with. The truly enlightened are those who do indeed focus on the outcome, and the bigger picture on the means-to-get-there. It may look like i'm fence-sitting... i'm not.. honest :o On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Kevin Adams wrote: > Hi, > > An approach to a CEO is basically a cold sale. > > Approaching the IT Head, you would be talking at least to a guy educated in > computers and he would be the main man. Convince him and you have it done. > At least make him "informed" and you are well on the way. > > Kevin > > 2009/6/30 Nevyn > >> It has it's pros and cons. >> >> An IT manager usually has a vested interest in keeping a software >> stack to something that they know. If they don't know Linux, they're >> going to feel threatened by the unknown. Add the FUD factor and you've >> got some very resistant people. This is regardless of the benefits >> they might get from an OSS stack. Chances are they're not even really >> taking note of the benefits. >> >> A CEO on the other hand probably doesn't really care either which way. >> They just want things to work. >> >> However, a CEO may not listen if due process hasn't been followed. >> Also, they may pass it back to the management team who - see above. >> You're stuck trying to convince a gatekeeper. Sort of like trying to >> get into a club with sneakers on. You can argue or try to convince the >> door men all you like, chances are, you're not getting in (and the >> problem quite often isn't the shoes - shoes are a nice out if they >> don't like the look of you for whatever reason. It could be argued >> that the same principles apply to computing). >> >> Regards, >> Nevyn. >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kevin Adams >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I feel that to approach the CEO straight on would be wrong as he takes >>> advice from his management team and to have made supporters of the the >>> Finance Head and the IT Head first before a meeting would be the way. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> 2009/6/30 Nevyn >>> >>>> The operational side of things wasn't mentioned at the NZOSS meeting >>>> and rightly so. If I understood correctly, NZOSS are only really >>>> aiming for getting a foot in the door. It would be up to the >>>> contracted company to figure out how the pilot should be implemented. >>>> The target would be to have the MS stack taken away entirely. That's >>>> not to say that it couldn't be a rolling implementation by department. >>>> >>>> We should pay heed to the scope of what was discussed at the meeting >>>> in terms of this discussion. >>>> >>>> (suddenly I feel the need to use the word "Discuss" multiple times...) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From ghodmode at ghodmode.com Tue Jun 30 23:57:21 2009 From: ghodmode at ghodmode.com (Ghodmode) Date: Tue Jun 30 23:57:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Ubuntu RAM requirements In-Reply-To: <20090630112639.407301DB81EA@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630112639.407301DB81EA@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: <65a4a6f30906300457x13db4027ud2227451a76042ef@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:26 PM, James Carroll wrote: > On 30/06/09, Mark Foster wrote: > > I need to ask the obvious - what about the distribution formerly known as > > ubuntu-eee (now known as Easy Peasy) ? > > It was designed to work on Eee from the 701 model upward. > > http://www.geteasypeasy.com/ > > I run this on mmy 701 quite happily. > > The default Xandros ship isnt bad but by the time id customized to to how > > I wanted, I had 'fun' managing things like available disk space... > > I'm looking at the easypeasy site, and to be honest, I think I prefer a > more > tradtional desktop, even despite the 7.1" screen. I'm not using the default > Xandros anymore. I did some sort of OS unlock when I got the machine, > following directions from a website. I dont know Linux at all really, so > I'm > not sure what I'm running anymore! I think its Debian and KDE.. But that > may > change by tomorrow morning. :) > I've been using Eeebuntu on my EEE 900 with great results. They offer three configurations: standard, base, and Netbook Remix. http://www.eeebuntu.org/ > > I've bookmarked the site anyway. I may give it a chance if I'm unhappy with > the netbook remix Ubuntu. Or bored. :) > > > A photo, taken at SoftwareFreedomDay 2008: > > http://gallery.blakjak.net/d/9285-2/IMG_0045.JPG > > Taken from > > http://gallery.blakjak.net/v/IT/SoftwareFreedomDay2008/ > > See also the Facebook edition: > > http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=35203&id=537606906&l=771beb3df8 > > The photo shows the login screen with 'advanced mode' enabled under > > Xandros. It was sometime after SFD that I went to Ubuntu-Eee and never > > looked back... > > Yep, looks like what I have here too. But.. time for a change (for me too). > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From Martin.Kealey at vodafone.com Tue Jun 30 19:21:09 2009 From: Martin.Kealey at vodafone.com (Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ) Date: Wed Jul 1 07:36:37 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 49, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <20090630050938.F41FC1DB810D@titania.wxnz.net> References: <20090630035618.40BEB1DB8158@titania.wxnz.net> <20090630050938.F41FC1DB810D@titania.wxnz.net> Message-ID: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F069AC928@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> > I just rang Vodafone to get 1. prices and 2. modem > brandname/model information, so I could google for drivers and/or > linux support information. In future ask for the business support team; they actually have a few clues. > They want to charge $40 monthly for an open term 200mb plan, Generally it's cheaper bundled with something else like voice as well. Still stupidly expensive compared with fixed-line broadband, but if you live in a house-bus it might be worth it. > she couldn't tell me the brand or chipset information of the modem. They're Huawei devices. Probably E800 or thereabouts. There are both external USB devices and USB-faked-over-PCMCIA -- which looks a lot tidier. Same chipset either way, depending on which release revision they're up to; and so same drivers too. > Then she says the only supported > operating systems are Windows vista, xp, 2000, etc. "Someone > might have made > drivers on the internet. Yes, Vodafone Spain. http://www.vodafone.es/ (Best to use Google unless you can read Spanish.) The trick to making it work is you *must* supply username and non-blank password, otherwise the Python script in the driver throws and exception, even though there's no username or password actually needed -- it authenticates off the SIM's mobile phone number (MSISDN in Telco speak). (Yes the card takes a SIM just like any other GSM phone.) > Their modem itself is $250.. $50 more than the > Telecom mobile modem. And Telecom mobile do a 500mb open term > contract for $35, and from reports on an ubuntu forum it does work (as > well). So I'm thinking I'm leaning towards them now. I'll let marketing know they're behind the eight-ball on this one. (Being like marketing in any other large telco, I'm not promising they'll listen, of course.) Don't be expecting miracles of speed; if you're not in good 3G coverage, it's back to GPRS ("2G"), which approximates dial-up speed. And the packetizing leads to pretty horrible latency even when you do have good coverage -- 55 ms is about as low as I've seen; better than Woosh's 70 ms, but only just. -Martin (lots of whitespace to push away the cruft that will get added below) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you seen our website?.... http://www.vodafone.co.nz Manage Your Account, check your Vodafone Mail and send web2TXT online: http://www.vodafone.co.nz/myvodafone CAUTION: This correspondence is confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the named recipient and receive this correspondence in error, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it and you should delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. Unless otherwise stated, any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent those of Vodafone New Zealand Limited. Vodafone New Zealand Limited 20 Viaduct Harbour Avenue, Private Bag 92161, Auckland 1030 Telephone + 64 9 355 2000 Facsimile + 64 9 355 2001