From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 1 16:51:34 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 1 16:51:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Just thought I'd send out a reminder about the barbeque this weekend. I've been thinking about what to bring along and any preperation I should do before hand. Things like making up some chick pea patties, for the vegetarians, and buying some foil trays for the cooked food. Perhaps some chicken sausages (do they still do those fantastic Chicken and Garlic Sausages>) if I can convince someone to bring along a couple of loaves of bread (hint hint). Of course we're going to need something liquid as well and kids because kids and barbeques just seem to go well together (and that's without having the two occupy the same space). The details again just in case ya forgot: When: ?5th December, 11:00-14:00 Where: ?Outhwaite park, Corner Park Rd, Carlton Gore Rd Grafton ?http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=174.764724731445&minlat=-36.8656692504883&maxlon=174.778198242188&maxlat=-36.8626022338867 We may even go for a beer or two afterwards.... That's if everyone isn't off to go see the Dalai Lama at Vector Arena that day. Regards, Nevyn. From ajchapman at gmail.com Tue Dec 1 18:34:59 2009 From: ajchapman at gmail.com (Anthony Chapman) Date: Tue Dec 1 18:35:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2faa0aee0911302134r496fdee8w9312b3c0c63046a3@mail.gmail.com> 2009/12/1 Nevyn : > Just thought I'd send out a reminder about the barbeque this weekend. So how many of you are going? I'm a maybe, but I've got a family commitment which has to take precedence thatI don't know the time for yet. From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 1 19:00:21 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 1 19:08:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <2faa0aee0911302134r496fdee8w9312b3c0c63046a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <2faa0aee0911302134r496fdee8w9312b3c0c63046a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Anthony Chapman wrote: > > So how many of you are going? I'm a maybe, but I've got a family > commitment which has to take precedence thatI don't know the time for > yet. I never really know until the actual event. So it could be me and like... 3 others or it could be loads and loads of people. I've sent out an invite to POINTS as well and to NZOSS. NZOSS were looking at doing an Auckland meeting so it thought it might be a good idea to get those guys involved as well. Sit about and talk in a casual atmosphere... Regards, Nevyn. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Dec 1 21:01:54 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Dec 1 21:02:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <2faa0aee0911302134r496fdee8w9312b3c0c63046a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770912010001l61f22ac0re1536e7c22beda88@mail.gmail.com> 2009/12/1 Nevyn : > I never really know until the actual event. So it could be me and > like... 3 others or it could be loads and loads of people. I've sent > out an invite to POINTS as well and to NZOSS. NZOSS were looking at > doing an Auckland meeting so it thought it might be a good idea to get > those guys involved as well. Sit about and talk in a casual > atmosphere... i've invited the ualugers along yesterday. i should be at the bbq. i'll confirm tomorrow, and stick my hand up to bring the bread. if i know how many are coming! From vik at catalyst.net.nz Wed Dec 2 08:31:36 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Wed Dec 2 08:31:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770912010001l61f22ac0re1536e7c22beda88@mail.gmail.com> References: <2faa0aee0911302134r496fdee8w9312b3c0c63046a3@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770912010001l61f22ac0re1536e7c22beda88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B156F18.70705@catalyst.net.nz> On 01/12/09 Robin Paulson wrote: > i've invited the ualugers along yesterday. i should be at the bbq. > i'll confirm tomorrow, and stick my hand up to bring the bread. if i > know how many are coming! Bit of work flapping around threatening the weekend but the Olliver Clan (4 x geeks) will be attempting it. Vik :v) From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 2 11:13:54 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 2 11:14:25 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >We may even go for a beer or two afterwards.... That's if everyone >isn't off to go see the Dalai Lama at Vector Arena that day. wonder if he'd be willing to join us for a veggie-sausage or something :p Could we extend the invite to the local perl-mongers, python crue, arduino's & OLPC/Sugar-OS'ers? ...here's hoping the weather plays along... - J From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 12:04:24 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Dec 2 12:04:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Could we extend the invite to the local perl-mongers, python crue, arduino's & OLPC/Sugar-OS'ers? > > ...here's hoping the weather plays along... > > - J Definitely. It is Xmas afterall and I was never all that... understanding of work do's where your partners couldn't come along or people were excluded because they were on a different contract or whatever. I guess what I'm saying is, share the love. Don those tie dyed t-shirts which everyone has hidden away somewhere, be hippies and invite anyone who you think might like to come along. (just no incense please - I'm allergic to 'em). It's an excuse to get out and meet people and even perhaps make new friends... Regards, Nevyn. From vik at catalyst.net.nz Wed Dec 2 12:15:54 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Wed Dec 2 12:21:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B15A3AA.7050305@catalyst.net.nz> On 02/12/09 Nevyn wrote: > I guess what I'm saying is, share the love. Don those tie dyed > t-shirts which everyone has hidden away somewhere, be hippies and > invite anyone who you think might like to come along. (just no incense > please - I'm allergic to 'em). It's an excuse to get out and meet > people and even perhaps make new friends... .. and bring foods, right? Vik :v) From vik at catalyst.net.nz Wed Dec 2 12:19:42 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Wed Dec 2 12:22:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> This is not a blatant plug for the Greens, but a warning that many people sporting a hippy mode of dress may be wandering about the parks on the 5th. Vik :v) Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand - www.greens.org.nz ----- Strong Turnout Needed for SignOn Planet-A March: Sat 5 Dec Time: 12.45pm Venue: Meet at Band Rotunda, Albert Park What: to join 1pm march up Queen St to concert in Myers Park Greens? co-leader Russel Norman MP will address the group before we join the march. We will have the new Green Party flags and plenty of placards and banners, so need lots of willing hands. Wear a Green Party T shirt, hat, jacket or wear green to show that the Greens are supporting action on climate change. We want to send a clear message before Copenhagen for 40% reduction in emissions by 2020. Help us make this the single biggest climate event in New Zealand's history. Free all ages concert 2.30-6.30pm Myers Park With Don McGlashan, Midnight Youth, Opshop and more! MC'd by Rhys Darby. From sond at ihug.co.nz Wed Dec 2 12:52:00 2009 From: sond at ihug.co.nz (sond) Date: Wed Dec 2 12:52:38 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder Message-ID: <4B15AC20.1010405@ihug.co.nz> I reckon the Dalai Lama would probably be up for a bit of good ol' barbecued goat should he attend. Erm, is it ok to bring liquid refreshment ( for instance beer )? or is that against the local council "rules" what about bringing MIT Drupal devs ? Are "hello my name is.." stickers a good idea ? I will bring quality potato salad. From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 13:00:17 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Dec 2 13:00:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <4B15AC20.1010405@ihug.co.nz> References: <4B15AC20.1010405@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:52 PM, sond wrote: > > Erm, is it ok to bring liquid refreshment ( for instance beer )? ?or is that > against the local council "rules" shh! I've been keeping very quiet on it. I think we should be okay so long as we keep fairly orderly. I didn't ask. Don't brng more than you're willing to lose I think is the moral here. > Are "hello my name is.." stickers a good idea ? They could be. I've never really thought about it. We've just identified each other by our beards ;) If you want to make some up, I wouldn't be opposed to wearing one. > I will bring quality potato salad. Would you seriously risk alienating all of that cheap potato salad? Now there's a thought... plastic cuttlery. I'll have a look see what I've got (I think I might have small side plates and cups but not much else). From kiirani at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 08:54:30 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Thu Dec 3 08:54:59 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> I'm intending to come :) Who likes smoked fish rolls? It's about all I can cook... From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 09:14:02 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 3 09:14:32 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Kennedy Skelton wrote: > I'm intending to come :) > > Who likes smoked fish rolls? It's about all I can cook... Gees! Way to kill the stereotypes ;) Should we be showing off our cooking skills? Given what I'm bringing I figured I was just providing burnt meat and vegetarian equivalent. From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 3 15:54:30 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 3 15:55:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Job Opportunity for someone... Message-ID: <4B172866.8030403@blakjak.net> http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=75&topicid=52298 IT & Technology : Networks & Systems (Full time) This is a hands on role and you will need in depth technical knowledge of Unix operating systems including Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat and AIX. You will need: *Experience with applications such as Apache, Tomcat,and Josso *Shell and Perl programming *Strong networking skills including, TCPIP,Firewalls,VPN,DNS configuration and diagnosis *working knowledge of DB2, DB Express, PostgreSQL, MySQL *Experience with HP hardware, Blades,SAN,Virtual Connect technology *Citrix Xenserver Refer the URL above for more info. Mark. (Who has no affiliation with the advertiser except that it looks like a likely opportunity for Auckland based Linux fans.) From ghodmode at ghodmode.com Thu Dec 3 20:25:50 2009 From: ghodmode at ghodmode.com (Ghodmode) Date: Thu Dec 3 20:26:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Installing Ubuntu or Mint on an Eee PC In-Reply-To: <4B0E8E2F.23499.133BE2A@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B0E8E2F.23499.133BE2A@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <1259825150.24097.31.camel@home> On my Eee 901, I'm using a Kingston 16Gb SDHC. I think it's a class 4. I don't have the OS installed on it, though, so I can't report on performance. The system comes with 2 SSDs, 4Gb and 16Gb. I have the standard install of Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Kiwi) installed on it. On Thu, 2009-11-26 at 14:18 +1300, Don Johnston wrote: > I have an Eee PC Model 701, currently running Xandros. I ran into > problems trying to install Lyx, one of the reasons being shortage of > solid state disc space. > > I am thinking of buying an SDHC card and installing either Ubuntu or > Mint and also Lyx on it. Would an Apacer class 4 or class 6 card be > suitable and give reasonable performance? I won't be storing much > data on the machine, primarily because I use a flash drive for that > purpose. Would an 8 Gb card be adequate? > > I don't have an external CD ROM drive so I will need to use a flash > drive to install Ubuntu or Mint. Should I use the netbook remix > version of Ubuntu? > > Am I likely to encounter any problems? > > Don Johnston > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From john at ber.net.nz Fri Dec 4 05:23:53 2009 From: john at ber.net.nz (John @ BER Ltd) Date: Fri Dec 4 05:24:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. Message-ID: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> Hi, After using and testing Linux O/S for the last year I've come across an issue with clients who are hesitant to "cross over" due to two main things- Outlook and Exchange. Even myself I still keep a windows box because our Accounts software must run on QuickBooks- I'm looking at wine as a way of overcoming this. I've researched many options of compatible software to replace Outlook, Exchange and also Outlook Active synch with PDA devices. Some good, some I'm unsure about and some I just don't have the time to evaluate. So I'm shouting out to the forum for their suggestions/opinions on what they suggest and how they find the replacement software. Also how they present the option as not a replacement to Outlook but a new way of handling email/calendar and appointments etc... BTW, I've latched onto UBUNTU Karmic as my preferred Desktop and Linux SME server as my email/web server (very nice for newbie's like me!) The main requirements with Outlook/Exchange is: 1. Shared Calendar/appointments/contacts 2. Auto synch with Imate Jasjam PDA's (Windows Mobile 5) 3. Also running Windoze apps in Linux- what do you use and how do you find it? Lastly thanks to all who have helped and given their time with various issues with Linux- Nevyn, Jaco etc...much appreciated. Regards John john@ber.net.nz From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Fri Dec 4 09:01:06 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Fri Dec 4 09:01:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Installing Ubuntu or Mint on an Eee PC In-Reply-To: <1259825150.24097.31.camel@home> References: <4B0E8E2F.23499.133BE2A@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <1259825150.24097.31.camel@home> Message-ID: <2987f0d40912031201pf46d1ech56a8b886e2b52df@mail.gmail.com> If you can avoid installing it on the 12 / 16GB Flash card, then do-so and put your /home partition on it. I found MUCH better performance on my 900 by installing it on the 4GB SSD. Mint or Ubuntu works fine IMO, though there are wiki's out there with How-To's on installing Ubuntu + customizations to make the GUI "fit nicer" on the limited resolution screen :) On 12/3/09, Ghodmode wrote: > On my Eee 901, I'm using a Kingston 16Gb SDHC. I think it's a class 4. > I don't have the OS installed on it, though, so I can't report on > performance. > > The system comes with 2 SSDs, 4Gb and 16Gb. I have the standard install > of Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Kiwi) installed on it. > > On Thu, 2009-11-26 at 14:18 +1300, Don Johnston wrote: >> I have an Eee PC Model 701, currently running Xandros. I ran into >> problems trying to install Lyx, one of the reasons being shortage of >> solid state disc space. >> >> I am thinking of buying an SDHC card and installing either Ubuntu or >> Mint and also Lyx on it. Would an Apacer class 4 or class 6 card be >> suitable and give reasonable performance? I won't be storing much >> data on the machine, primarily because I use a flash drive for that >> purpose. Would an 8 Gb card be adequate? >> >> I don't have an external CD ROM drive so I will need to use a flash >> drive to install Ubuntu or Mint. Should I use the netbook remix >> version of Ubuntu? >> >> Am I likely to encounter any problems? >> >> Don Johnston >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From justin at skull.co.nz Fri Dec 4 09:13:26 2009 From: justin at skull.co.nz (Justin Cook) Date: Fri Dec 4 09:14:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Installing Ubuntu or Mint on an Eee PC In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40912031201pf46d1ech56a8b886e2b52df@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B0E8E2F.23499.133BE2A@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <1259825150.24097.31.camel@home> <2987f0d40912031201pf46d1ech56a8b886e2b52df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <93a52e0e0912031213l4fd5d6beufed15c1930703e06@mail.gmail.com> How does the Ubuntu Netbook Remix look on it? Is it as useful as a normal Ubuntu install? 2009/12/4 Chilling_Silence > If you can avoid installing it on the 12 / 16GB Flash card, then do-so > and put your /home partition on it. I found MUCH better performance on > my 900 by installing it on the 4GB SSD. Mint or Ubuntu works fine IMO, > though there are wiki's out there with How-To's on installing Ubuntu + > customizations to make the GUI "fit nicer" on the limited resolution > screen :) > > On 12/3/09, Ghodmode wrote: > > On my Eee 901, I'm using a Kingston 16Gb SDHC. I think it's a class 4. > > I don't have the OS installed on it, though, so I can't report on > > performance. > > > > The system comes with 2 SSDs, 4Gb and 16Gb. I have the standard install > > of Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Kiwi) installed on it. > > > > On Thu, 2009-11-26 at 14:18 +1300, Don Johnston wrote: > >> I have an Eee PC Model 701, currently running Xandros. I ran into > >> problems trying to install Lyx, one of the reasons being shortage of > >> solid state disc space. > >> > >> I am thinking of buying an SDHC card and installing either Ubuntu or > >> Mint and also Lyx on it. Would an Apacer class 4 or class 6 card be > >> suitable and give reasonable performance? I won't be storing much > >> data on the machine, primarily because I use a flash drive for that > >> purpose. Would an 8 Gb card be adequate? > >> > >> I don't have an external CD ROM drive so I will need to use a flash > >> drive to install Ubuntu or Mint. Should I use the netbook remix > >> version of Ubuntu? > >> > >> Am I likely to encounter any problems? > >> > >> Don Johnston > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> AuckLUG mailing list > >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From kiirani at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 09:33:38 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Fri Dec 4 09:34:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> So, that weather forecast is looking a bit miserable. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 09:54:42 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 09:55:11 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Kennedy Skelton wrote: > So, that weather forecast is looking a bit miserable. *grumle* I've just had a look at the forecast and it looks like it's going to rain tomorrow. Should we put this off to Sunday? Though that seems a little tenuous given that it's set to rain on Monday as well. Anyone?!? Regards, Nevyn. From kiirani at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 10:02:47 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Fri Dec 4 10:03:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260912031302k30f6497cuf4b73e3ec9111baa@mail.gmail.com> 2009/12/4 Nevyn : > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Kennedy Skelton wrote: >> So, that weather forecast is looking a bit miserable. > > *grumle* > > I've just had a look at the forecast and it looks like it's going to > rain tomorrow. Should we put this off to Sunday? Though that seems a > little tenuous given that it's set to rain on Monday as well. > > Anyone?!? I'm not feeling too confident about bbqing in potentially foul weather, also UALUG is hoping to meet on sunday. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 4 10:04:44 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Dec 4 10:05:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> References: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> Message-ID: <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi John, Glad we could help. I've been looking into exchange alternatives for some time now, and it's pretty touch & go. First off, your client. If you're looking for a FLOSS alternative to outlook, then Evolution mail may be the way to go. It's a pretty good outlook alternative, and even supports ActiveSync (AS). I think that the new version of Thunderbird will also offer exchange support, but that's still a while off. As for atlernatives to an exchange server that run on GNU/Linux (just able to RUN on it; not talking FLOSS yet), then these are what you can consider: * CommuniGate * Zimbra * Zarafa * eGroupWare * Kerio * Lotus Notes * Novell GroupWise * Open-Xchange What I need to point out at this stage, is that NO "free" (whatever your take) system is able to LEGALLY offer the ActiveSync protocol/interface for free, as it's a licensed protocol. That being said, it IS the best protocol for syncing; m$ put a LOT of time & effort into this space, & it's paid off: no-one else in this space is able to offer such a effective solution. But you can get AS functionality from pretty-much all the providers above as a "commercial add-on" At the moment I'm looking at Zimbra in depth. This is the system that was adopted by Yahoo! It's a REALLY good alternative to exchange, ticks all the right boxes, and even comes as a turnkey box for ease of deployment on a VM or standalone system (http://www.turnkeylinux.org/zimbra) On the down-side, it's an ABSOLUTE resource hog (thanks, Java), but it's very well developed (this is NOT a mickey-mouse system) As for sync, well, that's the holy grail of mobile messaging, and as mentioned before, it's only the AS protocol that's really gotten it right. If you need something a little less intense (& lot as widely implemented) & insistant on an open protocol, then you should look at SyncML. It's like a "poor-man's AS" (see: funambol) It'll allow you to sync mail, contacts, cal's, etc, but unfortunately it does not allow for the sync of shared/groupware PIM Re QuickBooks; have you looked at hosting your windows-specific systems in a VM & then terminaling (RDP) in? That may be a better long-term solution than Wine (and I would strongly advise NOT using Wine in a production environment; too hackey) If you need alternatives to common proprietary apps, then look at www.osalt.com & I know that wikipedia also has a pretty comprehensive list of FLOSS alternatives Hope this helps - Jaco From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 4 10:10:50 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Dec 4 10:11:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >I've just had a look at the forecast and it looks like it's going to >rain tomorrow. Should we put this off to Sunday? Though that seems a >little tenuous given that it's set to rain on Monday as well. I've learned not to trust any NZ forecast longer than 5 minutes, and it's too late to change anything now. If worse comes to worse, we can go to the pub, or something. Will have to wait & see - J From davemc at mcpond.co.nz Fri Dec 4 10:32:10 2009 From: davemc at mcpond.co.nz (David McNeill) Date: Fri Dec 4 10:32:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: <20091203211133.63ECF61BF9@hood2.interspeed.co.nz> References: <20091203211133.63ECF61BF9@hood2.interspeed.co.nz> Message-ID: <4B182E5A.1080005@mcpond.co.nz> 1. Shared Calendar/appointments/contacts SugarCRM does this well if all your email/appointments/contacts are focused around customer and/or supplier interacton. 2. Auto synch with Imate Jasjam PDA's (Windows Mobile 5) Sugar/vTiger have some commercial plugins for some PDAs 3. Also running Windoze apps in Linux RDP to a (virtual/actual) windoze terminal server in single-application-per-login mode, where the problem app appears as a window in the linux desktop. -- David McNeill davemc@mcpond.co.nz McPond Software Open Source Support and Development www.mcpond.co.nz From sond at ihug.co.nz Fri Dec 4 12:29:00 2009 From: sond at ihug.co.nz (sond) Date: Fri Dec 4 12:29:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] RE: Barbeque Reminder Message-ID: <4B1849BC.8070805@ihug.co.nz> "Hello my name is.." stickers don't work properly in hail and sleet. From cameron.bradley at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 12:31:22 2009 From: cameron.bradley at gmail.com (Cameron Bradley) Date: Fri Dec 4 12:31:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B184A4A.5050606@gmail.com> Hi Jaco. Long-time lurker, first-time poster (well, for a very long time here). Just read your notes about Zimbra, and felt it might be worth posting a warning, My previous employer had a Zimbra installation that went in just prior to my arrival, and while it has many features, it is just downright slow (clicking the 'Compose' button results in a 15-28 second wait for the new message window to open), and we eventually lost it due to a combination of its rather interesting back-up-to-self procedures, and a power failure. We also had a few problems with disappearing messages within some of our our larger mailboxes that were inexplicable. They have now gone back to a conventional Exchange setup as a result of this, and significant disappointment with Google Apps' speed and capabilities. Regards, Cameron Bradley Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Hi John, > > Glad we could help. > > I've been looking into exchange alternatives for some time now, and it's pretty touch & go. > > First off, your client. > If you're looking for a FLOSS alternative to outlook, then Evolution mail may be the way to go. > It's a pretty good outlook alternative, and even supports ActiveSync (AS). > I think that the new version of Thunderbird will also offer exchange support, but that's still a while off. > > As for atlernatives to an exchange server that run on GNU/Linux (just able to RUN on it; not talking FLOSS yet), then these are what you can consider: > > * CommuniGate > * Zimbra > * Zarafa > * eGroupWare > * Kerio > * Lotus Notes > * Novell GroupWise > * Open-Xchange > What I need to point out at this stage, is that NO "free" (whatever your take) system is able to LEGALLY offer the ActiveSync protocol/interface for free, as it's a licensed protocol. > That being said, it IS the best protocol for syncing; m$ put a LOT of time & effort into this space, & it's paid off: no-one else in this space is able to offer such a effective solution. > But you can get AS functionality from pretty-much all the providers above as a "commercial add-on" > > At the moment I'm looking at Zimbra in depth. This is the system that was adopted by Yahoo! > It's a REALLY good alternative to exchange, ticks all the right boxes, and even comes as a turnkey box for ease of deployment on a VM or standalone system (http://www.turnkeylinux.org/zimbra) > > On the down-side, it's an ABSOLUTE resource hog (thanks, Java), but it's very well developed (this is NOT a mickey-mouse system) > > As for sync, well, that's the holy grail of mobile messaging, and as mentioned before, it's only the AS protocol that's really gotten it right. > If you need something a little less intense (& lot as widely implemented) & insistant on an open protocol, then you should look at SyncML. It's like a "poor-man's AS" (see: funambol) > It'll allow you to sync mail, contacts, cal's, etc, but unfortunately it does not allow for the sync of shared/groupware PIM > > Re QuickBooks; have you looked at hosting your windows-specific systems in a VM & then terminaling (RDP) in? > That may be a better long-term solution than Wine (and I would strongly advise NOT using Wine in a production environment; too hackey) > > If you need alternatives to common proprietary apps, then look at www.osalt.com & I know that wikipedia also has a pretty comprehensive list of FLOSS alternatives > > Hope this helps > > - Jaco > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 12:41:35 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 12:42:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] RE: Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <4B1849BC.8070805@ihug.co.nz> References: <4B1849BC.8070805@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:29 PM, sond wrote: > "Hello my name is.." stickers don't work properly in hail and sleet. This brings up another question. Should a geek name sticker not have two spaces? Hello my name is.... And my alias is.... Add an RFID tag and what isn't made better with bluetooth? and you're onto something. Water proof, space for an alias, accessible via bluetooth and able to be used to locate someone.. Perhaps a database back end? Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 4 12:50:07 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Dec 4 12:50:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: <4B184A4A.5050606@gmail.com> References: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B184A4A.5050606@gmail.com> Message-ID: <502199.9651.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > worth posting a warning Oh, bugger! I was afraid of something like that. Thanks for the warning, Cameron My finding thus far dealing with Zimbra (in a VM) seems to indicate that it's definitely not a lightweight (drags my HOLE VM host down), but the functionality it provides makes it a good contender against exchange. I've looked & looked for alternatives to exchange, and it's the closest I've come in terms of functionality (groupware & sync) A close second seems to be Kerio & CommuniGate, though they fall short in the FLOSS department (but still, worth considering) Have you any other recommendations to consider? I've been trying to migrate a few servers away from exchange for some time now, but many of the alternatives seem to fall short on some aspects (even considering that people may only be using about 10% of it functionality) - J From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 13:06:36 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 13:07:07 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: <502199.9651.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B184A4A.5050606@gmail.com> <502199.9651.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Oh, bugger! I was afraid of something like that. > Thanks for the warning, Cameron I'm wondering if a web based solution might be a viable option... If you're offering up the same solution on any platform with groupware functions you start getting all sorts of other benefits. This sort of fits into my anti-spreadsheet rant. The solution has to be something that makes the base OS .... redundant. What becomes important is the functionality, not the platform. So the discussion becomes not "what will run on my platform?", but rather, "what provides the functionality I'm seeking?". Of course, this is most likely a tangent. Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 4 13:25:19 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Dec 4 13:25:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: References: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B184A4A.5050606@gmail.com> <502199.9651.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <482648.21674.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Well, Zimbra, by default, provides web-based mail & admin, as well as standards-compliant protocols (SMTP, IMAP, etc). This is what people have come to expect & what they're willing to pay for. If they want something that deviated from the standard/norm (like the AS functionality), they need to pay for those "enterprise" components or custom development. I think, nowadays (in a web 2.0+ world), if you don't provide OS/platform-agnostic, web-based interface, you're dead in the water, and if you do not offer sync & mobile-device (MID) interaction, you're in serious trouble. >"what provides the functionality I'm seeking?" That's a tough one. Generally-speaking, a person is (usually) smart, whereas people are... not (herd-mentality, peer-pressure, etc) You'd be surprised how much people will believe what you tell them: i.e. "a camera on your phone is a GREAT idea, and no phone should be without one" Point is: people will want features that you tell them they want (it's the art of the sell), and more often than not, they'll hardly ever make use of it (but you'll get an ear-full the day it's not working just-right) - J From greg at primesoft.co.nz Fri Dec 4 14:03:59 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Fri Dec 4 14:05:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: <482648.21674.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B184A4A.5050606@gmail.com> <502199.9651.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <482648.21674.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009c01ca747d$a948e060$fbdaa120$@co.nz> Currently running Zimbra with integrated PDC on Test system 3Ghz PIV VMware Server 2.0 host with 2.5Gb RAM 2Gb dedicated to the Zimbra VM. Runs ok for a 5 user system. Total cost about $500. Currently running a small physical LAMP server for other web based internal applications as problematic to run other apps on Zimbra's webserver. (Although apparently quite doable) Final solution I'm putting into client's site will be a 3Ghz+ PIV Virtualised host platform of some sort (possibly Xen community on debian lenny with 4Gb Ram using LVM & 500Gb raid1) 1 x DomU Zimbra PDC 2.5Gb RAM, 1 x DomU LAMP 640Mb RAM) Using scripted LVM snapshots for local backup to 500Gb eSata storage and rsync backup to data centre based SAN storage. Total solution direct cost ~$650 + GST using recycled equipment from RCN. Oh, you get a OEM copy of Windows XP pro thrown in to boot. Not sure how keen MS is for you to use it though. Tomato based firewall on Linksys wireless router and Linksys am300 1/2 bridged. Turnkey wo to go I'm figuring ~$850 direct costs. Question is; What would you pay for it? What would you charge monthly for the offsite backup service and maintenance contract? Anyone got an SLA to cover it all? ;-) G. -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Jaco van der Merwe Sent: Friday, 4 December 2009 1:25 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. Well, Zimbra, by default, provides web-based mail & admin, as well as standards-compliant protocols (SMTP, IMAP, etc). This is what people have come to expect & what they're willing to pay for. If they want something that deviated from the standard/norm (like the AS functionality), they need to pay for those "enterprise" components or custom development. I think, nowadays (in a web 2.0+ world), if you don't provide OS/platform-agnostic, web-based interface, you're dead in the water, and if you do not offer sync & mobile-device (MID) interaction, you're in serious trouble. >"what provides the functionality I'm seeking?" That's a tough one. Generally-speaking, a person is (usually) smart, whereas people are... not (herd-mentality, peer-pressure, etc) You'd be surprised how much people will believe what you tell them: i.e. "a camera on your phone is a GREAT idea, and no phone should be without one" Point is: people will want features that you tell them they want (it's the art of the sell), and more often than not, they'll hardly ever make use of it (but you'll get an ear-full the day it's not working just-right) - J _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 14:37:12 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 14:37:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Outlook, Active Synch and Exchange Options. In-Reply-To: <482648.21674.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <000001ca7435$0150ed50$e600a8c0@dad> <89857.19197.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B184A4A.5050606@gmail.com> <502199.9651.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <482648.21674.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > >>"what provides the functionality I'm seeking?" > That's a tough one. Generally-speaking, a person is (usually) smart, whereas people are... not (herd-mentality, peer-pressure, etc) > You'd be surprised how much people will believe what you tell them: i.e. "a camera on your phone is a GREAT idea, and no phone should be without one" Had to relate this story - my mother is a taxi driver and uses her phone quite a bit. She's reliant on repeat customers. Anyway, it was time for her Telecom cellphone renewal and so was picking out a phone. She asked my advise and I asked her "what do you do on your cell phone?". Calling and txting... So I told her to get a phone which would enable her to do that and perhaps with bluetooth functionality. (She wasn't using an headset at this point but soon got one). Anyway, she came home with a Palm Treo - a $1200 phone. Never once used the extra features and replaced it with something much less functional when she dropped it in a puddle. I'm guessing the salesman convinced her she needed so much more... Sometimes a $0.50 note book is a better suppliment to a cheap phone and a better solution than those pda/phone solutions. Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 15:05:02 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 15:05:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > I've learned not to trust any NZ forecast longer than 5 minutes, and it's too late to change anything now. > If worse comes to worse, we can go to the pub, or something. > > Will have to wait & see > > - J Right, contingency plan. Should we decide on a pub now? Given the number of groups that have been invited, it'd be helpful to be able to say to them before say... 5 today that we have an alternative. Something close to the park - I'll also put a note at the park depending on the weather. Suggestions? We're talking New Market or Grafton... Regards, Nevyn. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 17:00:00 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Fri Dec 4 17:00:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <245103.25149.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> 2009/12/4 Nevyn : > Right, contingency plan. Should we decide on a pub now? Given the > number of groups that have been invited, it'd be helpful to be able to > say to them before say... 5 today that we have an alternative. > > Something close to the park - I'll also put a note at the park > depending on the weather. Suggestions? We're talking New Market or > Grafton... yeah, i'm in for that. there's a few decent places in newmarket and parnell. i'm not so sure about anywhere in grafton though From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Fri Dec 4 17:04:59 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Fri Dec 4 17:05:32 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Not sure of the name, and I've never drunk there, but the pub at the corner of Kingdon Street & Khyber Pass always looks presentable. Of course, if you'd rather go for solids, I can personally reccomend the yum cha place on the other side of kingdon Street. Bruce 2009/12/4 Robin Paulson > 2009/12/4 Nevyn : > > Right, contingency plan. Should we decide on a pub now? Given the > > number of groups that have been invited, it'd be helpful to be able to > > say to them before say... 5 today that we have an alternative. > > > > Something close to the park - I'll also put a note at the park > > depending on the weather. Suggestions? We're talking New Market or > > Grafton... > > yeah, i'm in for that. there's a few decent places in newmarket and > parnell. i'm not so sure about anywhere in grafton though > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Bruce Clement From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 17:27:17 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 17:27:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B15A48E.10908@catalyst.net.nz> <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Bruce Clement wrote: > Not sure of the name, and I've never drunk there, but the pub at the corner > of Kingdon Street & Khyber Pass always looks presentable. > > Of course, if you'd rather go for solids, I can personally reccomend the yum > cha place on the other side of kingdon Street. > > Bruce The Cock and Bull. Not such a bad place. Had a couple of good nights there though there is a rather nasty tendency to skimp on the alcohol on some of those busy nights. A Jack and Coke which tasted of Coke and very little Jack unless they misunderstood the request :/ Sort of psuedo English themed, fanchise... the live Music is normally good. They've got their bands which rotate through the various locations (In Auckland there's also Ellerslie and Lynfield - I think there might be one out towards Pakaranga/Howick as well). If it's anything like the Ellerslie branch though, not so great for food. Everrything had a bar snack theme to it and so was deep fried whatever - I think what seperated the bar snacks from the mains was that the bar snacks were smaller potions with the added bonus of toothpicks. Been the Yum Cha place as well - I'm not sure I get it. It's sort of felt like you just sat around waiting for food. Sure there were some interesting dishes which I don't think I would've ordered had it been on a menu and most dishes I probably wouldn't have ordered but then I don't think I would've missed those dishes awfully much. I do like the idea of socail eating though the only options tend to be Yum Cha and Tapas. Tapas I have a problem with in that the dishes normally cost almost as much as a mains without the same portion size and all in the name of socail eating... Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 17:42:20 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 17:42:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <2494ad260912021154s320b82afo9faba9d638f76000@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Cock and Bull it is - I'll put out the annoucement... We can always go somewhere else for lunch if need be. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 17:51:23 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 17:51:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: > Cock and Bull it is - I'll put out the annoucement... We can always go > somewhere else for lunch if need be. Just found the menu: http://www.cockandbull.co.nz/db/documentlibrary/NEWMARKETMENUAug2009.pdf Looks a lot better than I saw a few years ago when I last ate there. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 18:34:43 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 18:35:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Nevyn wrote: > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: >> Cock and Bull it is - I'll put out the annoucement... We can always go >> somewhere else for lunch if need be. > > Just found the menu: > http://www.cockandbull.co.nz/db/documentlibrary/NEWMARKETMENUAug2009.pdf > > Looks a lot better than I saw a few years ago when I last ate there. I just realised - I've fallen back to old patterns. How many people are we discluding by going to the pub? It's too late to do anything about it this time around but it'd be really good to know so that I can quantify it to myself when making decisions on venues and that sort of thing. Perhaps start the new year by not discluding anyone... Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 18:50:09 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 18:50:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: > Cock and Bull it is - I'll put out the annoucement... We can always go > somewhere else for lunch if need be. I've just realised that the Cock and Bull doesn't open until 11:30. So... we're going to have to find somewhere else. I really hate making changes this late so somewhere close so that it's only a short walk to where ever. I'll be putting a sign on the door with my cellphone number and where ever it is that we've gone. Now I've just got to figure out where it is that we're going.... We still have participants right? From sond at ihug.co.nz Fri Dec 4 18:56:09 2009 From: sond at ihug.co.nz (sond) Date: Fri Dec 4 18:56:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <2494ad260912031233r594021b3r3cd4565caaa914d9@mail.gmail.com> <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> Nevyn wrote: > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Nevyn wrote: > >> Cock and Bull it is - I'll put out the annoucement... We can always go >> somewhere else for lunch if need be. >> > > I've just realised that the Cock and Bull doesn't open until 11:30. > So... we're going to have to find somewhere else. I really hate making > changes this late so somewhere close so that it's only a short walk to > where ever. I'll be putting a sign on the door with my cellphone > number and where ever it is that we've gone. > > Now I've just got to figure out where it is that we're going.... > > We still have participants right? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > Is next Saturday a "better" option ? From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 19:10:25 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 19:11:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> References: <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM, sond wrote: > > Is next Saturday a "better" option ? Possibly - not great for me but doable. I know a couple of people who wouldn't be able to make it... Either way, I don't think it's a good time to cancel or postpone. From blakjak at blakjak.net Fri Dec 4 19:39:32 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Fri Dec 4 19:40:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] DrupalSouth 2010 - Registrations Open Message-ID: Apologies for the crosspost. I draw attention to DrupalSouth 2010 to be held in Wellington immediately after the completion of LCA2010. Bevan Rudge of the organising team is active in NZOSS and asked for this to be publicised. http://wellington2010.drupalsouth.net.nz/blog/drupalsouth-wellington-2010-press-release contains more information. Also for those interested, LCA2010 is still taking registrations; http://www.lca2010.org.nz. The timing can easily allow you to attend both events. Regards Mark. (I'll be at LCA2010, but not at DrupalSouth... sadly...) From robin.paulson at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 20:53:13 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Fri Dec 4 20:53:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <360423.29584.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770912032353k3eb671bawa0d6caf8072ef7ea@mail.gmail.com> 2009/12/4 Nevyn : > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:56 PM, sond wrote: >> >> Is next Saturday a "better" option ? > > Possibly - not great for me but doable. I know a couple of people who > wouldn't be able to make it... > > Either way, I don't think it's a good time to cancel or postpone. yeah, we've organised it now - we should really follow through and do something. cock and bull's ok i went to a yum cha place in newmarket two weeks ago. it was very good, decent price and they're open at that time in the morning From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 21:40:14 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 21:40:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770912032353k3eb671bawa0d6caf8072ef7ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> <2f3aa2770912032353k3eb671bawa0d6caf8072ef7ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > yeah, we've organised it now - we should really follow through and do something. > > cock and bull's ok > > i went to a yum cha place in newmarket two weeks ago. it was very > good, decent price and they're open at that time in the morning Early lunch at 10 then a drink afterwards? From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 23:30:36 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 4 23:31:07 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770912032000q3e2ef187qfe411d48c963082c@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> <2f3aa2770912032353k3eb671bawa0d6caf8072ef7ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Nevyn > > Early lunch at 10 then a drink afterwards? Sorry - that should be 11 - not 10. I confuse myself sometimes. I was going to go to the park at least 1/2 an hour early so that I could check the condition of the bbq, make sure I could get it lit and everything which means if I tell myself an hour before hand, I'll just make it on time. Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 07:47:34 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sat Dec 5 07:48:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> <2f3aa2770912032353k3eb671bawa0d6caf8072ef7ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Nevyn wrote: > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Nevyn > >> Early lunch at 10 then a drink afterwards? > > Sorry - that should be 11 - not 10. I confuse myself sometimes. I was > going to go to the park at least 1/2 an hour early so that I could > check the condition of the bbq, make sure I could get it lit and > everything which means if I tell myself an hour before hand, I'll just > make it on time. > > Regards, > Nevyn. Now I'm confused :/ woke up this morning and there's not a cloud in the sky - perhaps a little wind. Looked at the forecast and it's been changed from wet to chance of morning shower. I didn't prepare that which I was going to prepare due to being sure the weather wasn't going to clear. Regards, Nevyn. From sond at ihug.co.nz Sat Dec 5 08:27:55 2009 From: sond at ihug.co.nz (sond) Date: Sat Dec 5 08:28:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: References: <9da4db1f0912032004p5ef7a350nca9f241b7683bb2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> <2f3aa2770912032353k3eb671bawa0d6caf8072ef7ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B1962BB.9080508@ihug.co.nz> Nevyn wrote: > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Nevyn wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Nevyn > >> >>> Early lunch at 10 then a drink afterwards? >>> >> Sorry - that should be 11 - not 10. I confuse myself sometimes. I was >> going to go to the park at least 1/2 an hour early so that I could >> check the condition of the bbq, make sure I could get it lit and >> everything which means if I tell myself an hour before hand, I'll just >> make it on time. >> >> Regards, >> Nevyn. >> > > Now I'm confused :/ woke up this morning and there's not a cloud in > the sky - perhaps a little wind. Looked at the forecast and it's been > changed from wet to chance of morning shower. I didn't prepare that > which I was going to prepare due to being sure the weather wasn't > going to clear. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > Does appear to be clearing.. Thing is, the ground may well be soaked and muddy..... thus negatively impacting the relaxing in the park thing.. From nevynh at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 09:02:27 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sat Dec 5 09:03:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Barbeque Reminder In-Reply-To: <4B1962BB.9080508@ihug.co.nz> References: <4B18A479.5070008@ihug.co.nz> <2f3aa2770912032353k3eb671bawa0d6caf8072ef7ea@mail.gmail.com> <4B1962BB.9080508@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:27 AM, sond wrote: > > Does appear to be clearing.. > > Thing is, the ground may well be soaked and muddy..... thus negatively > impacting the relaxing in the park thing.. Yeah that's what I figured. See you at The Cock and Bull in a couple of hours. Just getting the sign made and myself ready. If we did end up at the bbq I'd have been late - loads of running around getting stuff which I was supposed to do yesterday and putting up a sign at the Cock and Bull... Regards, Nevyn. From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Sun Dec 6 12:07:04 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Sun Dec 6 12:07:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Drivers and virtual machines Message-ID: <4B1B9E68.9733.78A4D3@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I want to change from Windows to Linux Mint 8 (Helena) as a host for virtual machines. One concern that I have is lack of availability of good linux drivers for some of my hardware. This isn't a major concern if I can use that hardware in a Windows virtual machine using Windows drivers installed in that virtual machine. What I am really asking is whether the drivers in the guest or host are used. From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 12:30:31 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Dec 6 12:31:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup Message-ID: Hi Guys, Well, despite the sudden changes and the confusing emails from me, we had around 9 people turn up. It was a great day. We talked about the Open Source scene in New Zealand and how it could be made better. It even turns out that a couple of people had been thinking about the same thing. Something that interested me was the idea of an umbrella organisation around things related to FLOSS. That way you could then do a calender of events for all the different groups (think phpug, pythonug, arduino group, aucklug etc.) as well as their own events like a generalised Open Source BBQ once a year. Perhaps even some sort of award ceremony - a recognition of those who've contributed to the open source scene over the year. This wouldn't be directly associated with any group. i.e. I am mentioning it here though I don't expect there to be any association between AuckLUG and such an organisation (in much the same way that POINTS really has nothing to do with AuckLUG or NZLUG or NZOSS which are the places it was being discussed before POINTS existed). There's a few other things things happening but it's not my place to say what they are. Just be aware that the new year could see some really great things happening in the Open Source scene. We did have a venue suggestion yesterday... I know - it would've been nice to have the suggestion before the actual event for which needed a venue but I can always put it in as a suggestion for next year. It was the Newmarket working mans club. They've got bbq facilities and cheap drinks (turns out Outhwaite Park is a alcohol free area). Still would like something age appropriate for everyone and the whole family thing is always a bit of a bonus. In an interesting twist of irony 3 of us found ourselves at Outhwaite park, by the BBQs, sheltering from the rain. Another 6 and we could've had a BBQ ;) Regards, Nevyn. From blakjak at blakjak.net Sun Dec 6 13:01:46 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Sun Dec 6 13:02:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Something that interested me was the idea of an umbrella organisation > around things related to FLOSS. That way you could then do a calender You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Society? > of events for all the different groups (think phpug, pythonug, arduino > group, aucklug etc.) as well as their own events like a generalised > Open Source BBQ once a year. Perhaps even some sort of award ceremony > - a recognition of those who've contributed to the open source scene > over the year. This wouldn't be directly associated with any group. You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Awards? (www.nzosa.org.nz) > i.e. I am mentioning it here though I don't expect there to be any > association between AuckLUG and such an organisation (in much the same > way that POINTS really has nothing to do with AuckLUG or NZLUG or > NZOSS which are the places it was being discussed before POINTS > existed). Sorry but with the above already extant, i'm not following the perceived need for more of the same. Thanks for the writeup Nevyn, just wonder if you could enlighten more respects the above. Mark. From thetoolman at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 13:37:43 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Sun Dec 6 13:38:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Drivers and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <4B1B9E68.9733.78A4D3@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B1B9E68.9733.78A4D3@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: The guest machine doesn't use the hardware directly, it uses virtualised hardware. For this reason, you need drivers in your host needs to support your hardware. There are exceptions though: USB devices are mapped directly, and some VM software can expose other stuff too. But the bulk is visualized (graphics card, CPU, memory, network). On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Don Johnston wrote: > I want to change from Windows to Linux Mint 8 (Helena) as a host for > virtual machines. > > One concern that I have is lack of availability of good linux drivers > for some of my hardware. This isn't a major concern if I can use that > hardware in a Windows virtual machine using Windows drivers installed > in that virtual machine. What I am really asking is whether the > drivers in the guest or host are used. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 48 1275 - my old-new number! From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 16:22:07 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Dec 6 16:22:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Drivers and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <4B1B9E68.9733.78A4D3@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Tim Toolman wrote: > The guest machine doesn't use the hardware directly, it uses virtualised > hardware. ?For this reason, you need drivers in your host needs to support > your hardware. > > There are exceptions though: USB devices are mapped directly, and some VM > software can expose other stuff too. ?But the bulk is visualized (graphics > card, CPU, memory, network). This feels like a great big "depends" answer. Some printers (printers which won't work in Linux) can be used in a VM and shared with a Linux computer through the vm. USB devices as Tim has said. I'm not sure whether a VM could access a pci card - that's something to look into. From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 16:44:49 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Dec 6 16:45:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > >> Something that interested me was the idea of an umbrella organisation >> around things related to FLOSS. That way you could then do a calender > > You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Society? > >> of events for all the different groups (think phpug, pythonug, arduino >> group, aucklug etc.) as well as their own events like a generalised >> Open Source BBQ once a year. Perhaps even some sort of award ceremony >> - a recognition of those who've contributed to the open source scene >> over the year. This wouldn't be directly associated with any group. > > You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Awards? ?(www.nzosa.org.nz) It was just a thought. I don't want to be critical of NZOSS' efforts but I do think there's a space here for a more informal group. NZOSS makes no efforts in bringing information together (such as the groups I rattled off earlier). I think NZOSS fills a very important role but shouldn't be confused as a consolidation of the Open Source scene in New Zealand. If you didn't realise the background lobbying that NZOSS do you could be forgiven for thinking that NZOSS do very little. Instead I'm thinking a more grassroots "here's what's happening" kind of a site. At the moment the scene feels quite inappropriate in ways. For example, I was talking on three different lists when talking about POINTS - none of which felt appropriate and most of them believing POINTS to be their own spawn. The opensource magazine being talked about on NZLUG feels inappropriate as it's being discussed on a technical list which focuses on a particular platform. I don't see that as something that would be discussed on NZOSS as the audience doesn't seem right. Do you have any idea what's happening in the Arduino group? While not directly Linux related, I'm sure alot of Linux people would find the odd meeting they'd be interested in without wanting to subscribe to 20 odd mailing lists which might have the odd interesting meeting. Do we in Auckland know anything about what's happening in Christchurch? Are there any interesting projects happening around the country? Think of this as a bringing together of people - not of politics. There is definitely space for this and I don't think NZOSS could or should fill in those holes. Regards, Nevyn. From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Sun Dec 6 16:58:49 2009 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Sun Dec 6 16:59:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200912061658.49266.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> On Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:44:49 Nevyn wrote: > It was just a thought. I don't want to be critical of NZOSS' efforts > but I do think there's a space here for a more informal group. NZOSS > makes no efforts in bringing information together (such as the groups > I rattled off earlier). I think NZOSS fills a very important role but > shouldn't be confused as a consolidation of the Open Source scene in > New Zealand. If you didn't realise the background lobbying that NZOSS > do you could be forgiven for thinking that NZOSS do very little. Sure, it seems that NZOSS currently doesn't fill that gap in a way that you're stating. But wouldn't it be a better idea to add that as an additional aspect to NZOSS rather than to start fragmenting things further? Why not start an informal "NZOSS local chapters" community (or whatever you may want to call it) to bridge the more formal current role of NZOSS with the more informal needs of a more community driven approach? Just my $.02, Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland) 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss From blakjak at blakjak.net Sun Dec 6 17:02:17 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Sun Dec 6 17:02:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Nevyn wrote: > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Mark Foster wrote: >> >>> Something that interested me was the idea of an umbrella organisation >>> around things related to FLOSS. That way you could then do a calender >> >> You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Society? >> >>> of events for all the different groups (think phpug, pythonug, arduino >>> group, aucklug etc.) as well as their own events like a generalised >>> Open Source BBQ once a year. Perhaps even some sort of award ceremony >>> - a recognition of those who've contributed to the open source scene >>> over the year. This wouldn't be directly associated with any group. >> >> You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Awards? ?(www.nzosa.org.nz) > > It was just a thought. I don't want to be critical of NZOSS' efforts > but I do think there's a space here for a more informal group. NZOSS > makes no efforts in bringing information together (such as the groups > I rattled off earlier). I think NZOSS fills a very important role but > shouldn't be confused as a consolidation of the Open Source scene in > New Zealand. If you didn't realise the background lobbying that NZOSS > do you could be forgiven for thinking that NZOSS do very little. NZOSS's abilities are a reflection of the sum of its contributions. If you believe that there's a 'market' for something in the Open Source Scene that NZOSS doesn't fill, i'm sure they'd like to hear about it. The 'lobbying', and so on, that NZOSS engage in, is one of their key roles (insofar as they've evolved into that position) but it's not their sole brief. For readers unaware, NZOSS is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZOSS http://nzoss.org.nz/nzoss/about > Instead I'm thinking a more grassroots "here's what's happening" kind > of a site. At the moment the scene feels quite inappropriate in ways. > For example, I was talking on three different lists when talking about > POINTS - none of which felt appropriate and most of them believing > POINTS to be their own spawn. The opensource magazine being talked POINTS spawned out of several groups, that's going to happen - esp as they all have different audiences. > about on NZLUG feels inappropriate as it's being discussed on a > technical list which focuses on a particular platform. I don't see NZLUG is described as being about "Linux and Linux related issues". The AUP describes what is considered on-topic. The 'non-linux' stuff may well be better suited to somewhere else, etc, but all ideas spawn somewhere. I should point out that NZOSS itself spawned out of discussions that began on NZLUG, and an Auckland based NZLUG meeting, among other things. > that as something that would be discussed on NZOSS as the audience > doesn't seem right. Do you have any idea what's happening in the > Arduino group? While not directly Linux related, I'm sure alot of > Linux people would find the odd meeting they'd be interested in > without wanting to subscribe to 20 odd mailing lists which might have > the odd interesting meeting. Do we in Auckland know anything about > what's happening in Christchurch? Are there any interesting projects > happening around the country? Think of this as a bringing together of > people - not of politics. > > There is definitely space for this and I don't think NZOSS could or > should fill in those holes. I don't believe it's necessarily for you to judge that NZOSS is inappropriate to fill those holes; I agree that there's plenty of benefit in some consolidation and I actually feel that NZOSS would be an ideal conduit - as it's entirely within their brief. I guess I don't want to see 'Yet Another Group' established with a narrow set of goals, when the infrastructure is already in place elsewhere and only needs manpower and drive to make it happen? Seriously, when I saw your post in the first instance, NZOSS immediately leapt to mind. Before you dismiss it, at least consider writing a proposal that I can put to Council. Mark. (Council Member, Foundation member, NZOSS...) From daniel at rimspace.net Sun Dec 6 22:14:17 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Sun Dec 6 22:14:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Drivers and virtual machines In-Reply-To: (Nevyn's message of "Sun, 6 Dec 2009 16:22:07 +1300") References: <4B1B9E68.9733.78A4D3@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <87638kwjkm.fsf@rimspace.net> Nevyn writes: > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Tim Toolman wrote: > >> The guest machine doesn't use the hardware directly, it uses virtualised >> hardware. ?For this reason, you need drivers in your host needs to support >> your hardware. >> >> There are exceptions though: USB devices are mapped directly, and some VM >> software can expose other stuff too. ?But the bulk is visualized (graphics >> card, CPU, memory, network). > > This feels like a great big "depends" answer. Some printers (printers which > won't work in Linux) can be used in a VM and shared with a Linux computer > through the vm. Most of the tools can pass through parallel and serial ports; network printers are pretty obvious, and... > USB devices as Tim has said. ...USB can usually pass through on more or less anything. > I'm not sure whether a VM could access a pci card - that's something to look > into. Yup. Sure can ? but harder than the alternatives. If you have VTX-d support in your hardware[1] this is easy, otherwise you /can/ have it pass through on some systems, but you risk a hostile guest taking control of the physical machine.[2] Daniel Footnotes: [1] My ~ year old server does, but my three year old laptop doesn't, for example. [2] Actually, in fairness, I don't know if anyone other than qemu enabled that feature in production. -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 22:35:26 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Dec 6 22:35:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > > Seriously, when I saw your post in the first instance, NZOSS immediately > leapt to mind. ?Before you dismiss it, at least consider writing a proposal > that I can put to Council. > > Mark. > > (Council Member, Foundation member, NZOSS...) I've got to admit - when I started thinking about names NZOSS kept jumping to mind. I am still a little weary of NZOSS due to some of the negative impressions I've gotten from the Open Chat list - tempers and all... Well... if this is going to happen - I'll go away, have a think on it. I wasn't actually meaning to put anything into action... :) Perhaps a bunch of little projects - i.e. an events calender to start with. From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Mon Dec 7 08:49:17 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Mon Dec 7 08:49:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> 2009/12/6 Nevyn > > Perhaps a bunch of little projects - i.e. an events calender to start with. > > This sounds similar in concept to what I started to do with my GnuZealand.co.nz website. Something that is about the FOSS movement in New Zealand, without actually being part of or closely tied to any of the various complimentary groups that operate. Unfortunately after creating a skeletal wiki, having it spammed out of existance by bots & recreated afresh; I pretty much ran out of steam. A single unified calendar that listed everyone's events would be useful & I'd be happy to assist in any way I can. Regards -- Bruce Clement From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Mon Dec 7 09:08:15 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Mon Dec 7 09:08:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> Following up my own posting. Sorry about the stream of consciousness post. No, I don't think my project is a suitable basis for a unified calendar, it's hard to see a joke domain name as a suitable home. It also needs a team of some kind behind it, a single individual trying is likely to have problems as their priorities / energy levels change over time. I'm willing to help out a team. Regards Bruce 2009/12/7 Bruce Clement > > > 2009/12/6 Nevyn > > >> Perhaps a bunch of little projects - i.e. an events calender to start >> with. >> >> > This sounds similar in concept to what I started to do with my > GnuZealand.co.nz website. Something that is about the FOSS movement in New > Zealand, without actually being part of or closely tied to any of the > various complimentary groups that operate. > > Unfortunately after creating a skeletal wiki, having it spammed out of > existance by bots & recreated afresh; I pretty much ran out of steam. > > A single unified calendar that listed everyone's events would be useful & > I'd be happy to assist in any way I can. > > Regards > > -- > Bruce Clement > -- Bruce Clement From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 7 10:06:52 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 7 10:07:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B1C1CEC.3000702@catalyst.net.nz> Mark Foster wrote: > Seriously, when I saw your post in the first instance, NZOSS immediately > leapt to mind. Before you dismiss it, at least consider writing a > proposal that I can put to Council. I'm on the council too, and would love to see a proposal. Vik :v) From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 10:19:27 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Dec 7 10:19:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <4B1C1CEC.3000702@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4B1C1CEC.3000702@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Vik Olliver wrote: > Mark Foster wrote: >> >> Seriously, when I saw your post in the first instance, NZOSS immediately >> leapt to mind. ?Before you dismiss it, at least consider writing a proposal >> that I can put to Council. > > I'm on the council too, and would love to see a proposal. > > Vik :v) Are there any guidelines for proposals? I'm unlikely to have anything before probably around Febuary unless there's enough enthusiasm from a core group of people. From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 10:21:24 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Dec 7 10:21:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Bruce Clement wrote: > Following up my own posting. > > Sorry about the stream of consciousness post. > > No, I don't think my project is a suitable basis for a unified calendar, > it's hard to see a joke domain name as a suitable home. > > It also needs a team of some kind behind it, a single individual trying is > likely to have problems as their priorities / energy levels change over > time. > > I'm willing to help out a team. > > Regards > > Bruce Hi Bruce, Would love to have your help. I'm thinking a core group of say... 6 or so? Of course, given that we're discussing this on an Auckland group probably isn't the best place for this.. From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Dec 7 10:32:14 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Dec 7 10:32:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: <4B1C1CEC.3000702@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Nevyn wrote: > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Vik Olliver wrote: >> Mark Foster wrote: >>> >>> Seriously, when I saw your post in the first instance, NZOSS immediately >>> leapt to mind. ?Before you dismiss it, at least consider writing a proposal >>> that I can put to Council. >> >> I'm on the council too, and would love to see a proposal. >> >> Vik :v) > > Are there any guidelines for proposals? I'm unlikely to have anything > before probably around Febuary unless there's enough enthusiasm from a > core group of people. > I don't have any guidelines for you, just outline your vision and intentions, and what sort of resources you think you'll need. There's some aspects we already cover, and others we can easily extend to, so it shouldn't be much of a drama. Mark. From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 7 10:47:07 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 7 10:47:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: <4B1C1CEC.3000702@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <4B1C265B.6010204@catalyst.net.nz> Nevyn wrote: > Are there any guidelines for proposals? I'm unlikely to have anything > before probably around Febuary unless there's enough enthusiasm from a > core group of people. Not seen any. I think it's not administratively complex :) Vik :v) From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 7 10:58:43 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 7 10:59:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488228.10056.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Society? No. Something less "formal" & with a better sense of humor (& daresay, less P-C) What was discussed (as I understood it) is the creation of a Auckland-based "hackerspace" (similar to that of Christchuch & Wellington & elsewhere in the world), that could serve as a de-facto meeting place for the FLOSS-oriented groups, and maybe with a bit less of a bias for Linux-users, so that windows & mac users could participate without being ragged on, too much. A few points came up: * where is it to be? (some semi-permanent space; north-shore was floated) * who's going to pay for it? (presumably member contributions; cost @ a beer a week. beeronomics?) * who's going to administer it? (heard about this great guy names Mr.Somebody...) >You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Awards? (www.nzosa.org.nz) Again; less formal (I think). More like: "yipee! you're the muppet of the month. here's a beer!" - J From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Dec 7 11:12:19 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Dec 7 11:12:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <488228.10056.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <488228.10056.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Using NZOSS's facilities and expertise doesn't translate to anything more than using synergies where they exist. I'm sorry you don't think the Society has a sense of humour. Individual groups (like 'hackerspace' types) need to stand on their own and have their freedom, 100% supported. I'm just suggesting that as a consolidator for a national point of view, the Society is well placed. They infact already have an Events Calendar online, i've just made it more accessible: http://nzoss.org.nz/event Just working on more straightforward ways of having people add events to it; folks who want rights to do so can hassle me offlist in the meantime. If you want to offer a beer to someone who does a good job as a muppet, be my guest! :-) Mark. On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: >> You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Society? No. Something less "formal" & with a better sense of humor (& daresay, less P-C) What was discussed (as I understood it) is the creation of a Auckland-based "hackerspace" (similar to that of Christchuch & Wellington & elsewhere in the world), that could serve as a de-facto meeting place for the FLOSS-oriented groups, and maybe with a bit less of a bias for Linux-users, so that windows & mac users could participate without being ragged on, too much. A few points came up: * where is it to be? (some semi-permanent space; north-shore was floated) * who's going to pay for it? (presumably member contributions; cost @ a beer a week. beeronomics?) * who's going to administer it? (heard about this great guy names Mr.Somebody...) >You mean like the New Zealand Open Source Awards? (www.nzosa.org.nz) Again; less formal (I think). More like: "yipee! you're the muppet of the month. here's a beer!" - J > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 7 12:14:23 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 7 12:14:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: <488228.10056.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <858844.81334.qm@web26105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >If you want to offer a beer to someone who does a good job as a muppet, be my guest! :-) "congratulations! you're the $X of the $Y; here, have a $Z" Anyone who's willing to try stuff out & are not afraid to fail (sometimes repeatedly), is deserving of a beer (or some other cold, bubbly beverage). A beer *per* fail is a different story entirely... that's more like drinking-games :p From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Mon Dec 7 13:01:15 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Mon Dec 7 13:01:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> 2009/12/7 Nevyn > > > Hi Bruce, > > Would love to have your help. I'm thinking a core group of say... 6 or > so? Of course, given that we're discussing this on an Auckland group > probably isn't the best place for this.. > > Hi Nevyn, Count me in then. I agree that a regional list isn't the ideal to discuss starting, but there's no reason we shouldn't start something and people from other regions can join in as they hear of it. As long as we're doing & not just talking there's no reason for anyone to get upset at where it started. Trying to her enough cats to get national acceptance ahead of actually starting is likely to slow starting the list for months and lose people who would otherwise be keen to start. By promoting on NZOSS we're making it clear that we aren't just talking about the Auckland region. Bruce -- Bruce Clement From duffyd at kokorice.org Mon Dec 7 13:08:15 2009 From: duffyd at kokorice.org (Tim Knapp) Date: Mon Dec 7 13:08:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> Hi, I'm the vice-president of the NZPUG[1] and we obviously would love to have more exposure for our meetups. It would be a 'slight pain' to have to manually update a page, though, so is there a way we could perhaps publish to an RSS feed or equivalent and that this is just automatically displayed on your site? Thanks, Tim [1] http://nzpug.org On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 13:01 +1300, Bruce Clement wrote: > 2009/12/7 Nevyn > > > > > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > Would love to have your help. I'm thinking a core group of say... 6 or > > so? Of course, given that we're discussing this on an Auckland group > > probably isn't the best place for this.. > > > > > Hi Nevyn, > > Count me in then. > > I agree that a regional list isn't the ideal to discuss starting, but > there's no reason we shouldn't start something and people from other regions > can join in as they hear of it. > > As long as we're doing & not just talking there's no reason for anyone to > get upset at where it started. > > Trying to her enough cats to get national acceptance ahead of actually > starting is likely to slow starting the list for months and lose people who > would otherwise be keen to start. > > By promoting on NZOSS we're making it clear that we aren't just talking > about the Auckland region. > > Bruce > From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Dec 7 14:08:41 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Dec 7 14:09:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> Message-ID: Hi Tim, The difficulty is that there's hoards of groups and all operate differently, so it's hard to make an easy one-fits-all solution. If you have a login on the NZOSS Portal you should be able to create 'Event' content types in no more than a couple of minutes, for a start. Mark. On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Tim Knapp wrote: > Hi, > > I'm the vice-president of the NZPUG[1] and we obviously would love to > have more exposure for our meetups. It would be a 'slight pain' to have > to manually update a page, though, so is there a way we could perhaps > publish to an RSS feed or equivalent and that this is just automatically > displayed on your site? > > Thanks, > Tim > > [1] http://nzpug.org > > On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 13:01 +1300, Bruce Clement wrote: >> 2009/12/7 Nevyn >> >>> >>> >>> Hi Bruce, >>> >>> Would love to have your help. I'm thinking a core group of say... 6 or >>> so? Of course, given that we're discussing this on an Auckland group >>> probably isn't the best place for this.. >>> >>> >> Hi Nevyn, >> >> Count me in then. >> >> I agree that a regional list isn't the ideal to discuss starting, but >> there's no reason we shouldn't start something and people from other regions >> can join in as they hear of it. >> >> As long as we're doing & not just talking there's no reason for anyone to >> get upset at where it started. >> >> Trying to her enough cats to get national acceptance ahead of actually >> starting is likely to slow starting the list for months and lose people who >> would otherwise be keen to start. >> >> By promoting on NZOSS we're making it clear that we aren't just talking >> about the Auckland region. >> >> Bruce >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 14:12:49 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Dec 7 14:13:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Tim Knapp wrote: > Hi, > > I'm the vice-president of the NZPUG[1] and we obviously would love to > have more exposure for our meetups. It would be a 'slight pain' to have > to manually update a page, though, so is there a way we could perhaps > publish to an RSS feed or equivalent and that this is just automatically > displayed on your site? > > Thanks, > Tim > > [1] http://nzpug.org We could do it the same way that linux.net.nz do it. There's a seperate mailing list for annoucements which are manually vetted for anything inappropriate and then published to the front page. Given it has to be a one size fits all sort of solution I would advocate a fairly standard template - this is what's happening and from which group. This is where it is (Open Street Maps people?). This is what you may need to bring. This is where to gather information. If the date and times are all fairly consistent adding this to a calender should be fairly simple. This is just detail though. From duffyd at kokorice.org Mon Dec 7 14:28:24 2009 From: duffyd at kokorice.org (Tim Knapp) Date: Mon Dec 7 14:29:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> Message-ID: <1260149304.2482.72.camel@monty> On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 14:12 +1300, Nevyn wrote: > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Tim Knapp wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm the vice-president of the NZPUG[1] and we obviously would love to > > have more exposure for our meetups. It would be a 'slight pain' to have > > to manually update a page, though, so is there a way we could perhaps > > publish to an RSS feed or equivalent and that this is just automatically > > displayed on your site? > > > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > > [1] http://nzpug.org > > We could do it the same way that linux.net.nz do it. There's a > seperate mailing list for annoucements which are manually vetted for > anything inappropriate and then published to the front page. Given it > has to be a one size fits all sort of solution I would advocate a > fairly standard template - this is what's happening and from which > group. This is where it is (Open Street Maps people?). This is what > you may need to bring. This is where to gather information. If the > date and times are all fairly consistent adding this to a calender > should be fairly simple. This is just detail though. Sounds good. -Tim > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From duffyd at kokorice.org Mon Dec 7 14:29:10 2009 From: duffyd at kokorice.org (Tim Knapp) Date: Mon Dec 7 14:29:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> Message-ID: <1260149350.2482.75.camel@monty> On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 14:08 +1300, Mark Foster wrote: > Hi Tim, > > The difficulty is that there's hoards of groups and all operate > differently, so it's hard to make an easy one-fits-all solution. > > If you have a login on the NZOSS Portal you should be able to create > 'Event' content types in no more than a couple of minutes, for a start. Yeah, I do have a logon on the site and have created events on there in the past but I don't think the events on the NZOSS site fit this kind of regular meetup. They seem IMHO more suited to 'bigger' events. -Tim > > Mark. > > On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Tim Knapp wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I'm the vice-president of the NZPUG[1] and we obviously would love to > > have more exposure for our meetups. It would be a 'slight pain' to have > > to manually update a page, though, so is there a way we could perhaps > > publish to an RSS feed or equivalent and that this is just automatically > > displayed on your site? > > > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > > [1] http://nzpug.org > > > > On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 13:01 +1300, Bruce Clement wrote: > >> 2009/12/7 Nevyn > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Bruce, > >>> > >>> Would love to have your help. I'm thinking a core group of say... 6 or > >>> so? Of course, given that we're discussing this on an Auckland group > >>> probably isn't the best place for this.. > >>> > >>> > >> Hi Nevyn, > >> > >> Count me in then. > >> > >> I agree that a regional list isn't the ideal to discuss starting, but > >> there's no reason we shouldn't start something and people from other regions > >> can join in as they hear of it. > >> > >> As long as we're doing & not just talking there's no reason for anyone to > >> get upset at where it started. > >> > >> Trying to her enough cats to get national acceptance ahead of actually > >> starting is likely to slow starting the list for months and lose people who > >> would otherwise be keen to start. > >> > >> By promoting on NZOSS we're making it clear that we aren't just talking > >> about the Auckland region. > >> > >> Bruce > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Dec 7 14:48:55 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Dec 7 14:49:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <1260149350.2482.75.camel@monty> References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> <1260149350.2482.75.camel@monty> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, Tim Knapp wrote: > On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 14:08 +1300, Mark Foster wrote: >> Hi Tim, >> >> The difficulty is that there's hoards of groups and all operate >> differently, so it's hard to make an easy one-fits-all solution. >> >> If you have a login on the NZOSS Portal you should be able to create >> 'Event' content types in no more than a couple of minutes, for a start. > > Yeah, I do have a logon on the site and have created events on there in > the past but I don't think the events on the NZOSS site fit this kind of > regular meetup. They seem IMHO more suited to 'bigger' events. > Respectfully, I disagree. In fact one of the key things about this discussion was that a single Calendar plotting all of this stuff on it would be a good thing. If there's a perception out there that NZOSS is only suited to 'big things' then I'd like to see that changed. NZOSS is all about F/OSS in NZ - from grassroots and all the way up from there. IF you have upcoming events please plot them on the Society's calendar, this is one of those 'snowball' things ... to pull together the data from so many places can only be done with the help of key people. From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 7 14:54:59 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 7 14:55:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> <1260149350.2482.75.camel@monty> Message-ID: <4B1C6073.30400@catalyst.net.nz> Mark Foster wrote: > If there's a perception out there that NZOSS is only suited to 'big > things' then I'd like to see that changed. NZOSS is all about F/OSS in > NZ - from grassroots and all the way up from there. Yup, and like most people here they've learned not to base the importance of something on sheer size... Vik :v) From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 7 15:25:02 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 7 15:25:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? Message-ID: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> Running the proprietary drivers on my laptop seems to speed up the Dead Consoles[1] bug on my laptop. Using the nv driver won't let me have 2 screens on my laptop. Or will it? Can the Ubuntu Karmic nv driver support 2 sceens? If it does, what config utility do I use? Vik :v) [1] Open consoles freeze. New terminal windows accept no input. SSH sessions coming in get a propmt which then freezes. Ctrl-Alt-F? does nothing. Alt-F2 "run in terminal" runs 1 command and freezes on input. Exit and Reset options won't work from desktop. Can be forced by changing screen brightness. From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Mon Dec 7 17:26:40 2009 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Mon Dec 7 17:27:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <200912071726.40539.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:25:02 Vik Olliver wrote: > Can the Ubuntu Karmic nv driver support 2 sceens? If it does, what > config utility do I use? Don't take my word for it 100%, but AFAIK you can only use Xinerama with the free drivers, as Twinview is an extension implemented by NVidia. I believe it also does not work for ATI, as they're doing things differently. But you may want to check on that. Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland) 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 7 17:37:22 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 7 17:44:32 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <571141.87172.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Video seems to be an issue in Karmic; I've had issues myself & various others have too (apparrently has something to do with gdm being completely rebuilt). Well, at least they fixed that dog's-breakfast of a PulseAudio (HUGE +-point for me in the new release) In my experience, the most effective way of handling those pesky drives is via Envy: * install envyng-common * run `envyng -t` & pick your driver If it gives you lip about header, it probably means there's a bug in your grub & it's loded the wrong kernel (which is what happened to me) Hope it helps - J From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 17:48:04 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Dec 7 17:48:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] "BBQ" Writeup In-Reply-To: <4B1C6073.30400@catalyst.net.nz> References: <9da4db1f0912061149kfab966cped4c89736d331aa5@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061208n38ffe81dp6628bc11c974e9e0@mail.gmail.com> <9da4db1f0912061601h4b3317behcadb545606fddc3a@mail.gmail.com> <1260144495.2482.68.camel@monty> <1260149350.2482.75.camel@monty> <4B1C6073.30400@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Vik Olliver wrote: > > Yup, and like most people here they've learned not to base the importance of > something on sheer size... > > Vik :v) *snigger* I'm sure there's a joke in here... I'm just not sure I'm distasteful enough to make it. From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 7 18:45:31 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 7 18:46:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <200912071726.40539.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> <200912071726.40539.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> Message-ID: <4B1C967B.40304@catalyst.net.nz> Guy K. Kloss wrote: > On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:25:02 Vik Olliver wrote: >> Can the Ubuntu Karmic nv driver support 2 sceens? If it does, what >> config utility do I use? > > Don't take my word for it 100%, but AFAIK you can only use Xinerama with the > free drivers, as Twinview is an extension implemented by NVidia. I believe it > also does not work for ATI, as they're doing things differently. > > But you may want to check on that. Yeah, looks that way. What's the utility for setting up dual-screens with Xinerama then? All the stuff I can find is either TwinView or using multiple cards and lots of confused people with mysteriously broken xorg.conf files! There used to be a displayconfig-gtk but I understand it's been removed from the latest Ubuntu. Vik :v) From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 7 18:47:47 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 7 18:48:16 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <571141.87172.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> <571141.87172.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B1C9703.9070404@catalyst.net.nz> Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > In my experience, the most effective way of handling those pesky drives is via Envy: > * install envyng-common > * run `envyng -t` & pick your driver It doesn't seem to be part of Ubuntu, and when I used it in the past installed the nvidia proprietary driver. My problem is the nvidia proprietary driver, and I'm not sure installing it a different way will help. Can envy do two screens off one nvidia card using the nv driver? Vik :v) From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 7 19:07:32 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 7 19:08:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <4B1C9703.9070404@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> <571141.87172.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B1C9703.9070404@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <748456.60708.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Envy is just a tool to ease the installation of the drivers that are available (including the config tool). The config tool that I'm using to config my NVidia card here is "nvidia-settings", that overrides/replaces the functionality of "gnome-display-properties" (on ATI it's catalyst something-or-another) Karmic graphics seem to be as fubar as Jaunty's PulseAudio.... - J From vik at catalyst.net.nz Tue Dec 8 12:22:49 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Tue Dec 8 12:23:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <748456.60708.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> <571141.87172.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B1C9703.9070404@catalyst.net.nz> <748456.60708.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B1D8E49.2060206@catalyst.net.nz> Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Envy is just a tool to ease the installation of the drivers that are available (including the config tool). > The config tool that I'm using to config my NVidia card here is "nvidia-settings", that overrides/replaces the functionality of "gnome-display-properties" > > (on ATI it's catalyst something-or-another) > > Karmic graphics seem to be as fubar as Jaunty's PulseAudio.... And some. Try running "gnome-display-properties" and it says: "It appears that your graphics driver does not support the necessary extensions to use this tool. Do you want to use your graphics driver vendor's tool instead?" Click "Yes" and it launches the proprietary nvidia config which says: "You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run `nvidia-xconfig` as root), and restart the X server." F'in hell. Cue new bug. http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/493818 Vik :v) From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 8 12:42:42 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Dec 8 12:43:13 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <4B1D8E49.2060206@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> <571141.87172.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B1C9703.9070404@catalyst.net.nz> <748456.60708.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B1D8E49.2060206@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <920034.52044.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >"You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run `nvidia-xconfig` as root), and restart the X server." Yip. Sounds pretty buggy... Have you tried dpkg-reconfig on the various xorg & fglx (?) drivers. I know it helped last time I had similar issues I've managed to completely greak the drivers on my ATI at home (too), trying to get multi-seat X going (still!) Luckily I'm using NVidia here at work (mint karmic-64), and it seems to be OK (for now). Are there any setting or configs that you'd like me to pass you that may help? - J From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Tue Dec 8 13:32:17 2009 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Tue Dec 8 13:32:35 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <4B1D8E49.2060206@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> <748456.60708.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B1D8E49.2060206@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <200912081332.17227.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 12:22:49 Vik Olliver wrote: > F'in hell. Cue new bug. > http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/493818 After reading this, one of these questions comes to my mind: Are you using a dual head graphics adapter, or two independent ones? I could imagine that the multi head ones won't be supported with the free drivers, as they might require some secret sauce in the nvidia (proprietary) drivers to switch that second port. If you've got two adapters it should work, as they're handled independently by the x server (I'd assume). Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland) 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss From vik at catalyst.net.nz Tue Dec 8 15:21:56 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Tue Dec 8 15:22:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Twinview from Open Source Nvidia X Drivers? In-Reply-To: <200912081332.17227.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> References: <4B1C677E.1000205@catalyst.net.nz> <748456.60708.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B1D8E49.2060206@catalyst.net.nz> <200912081332.17227.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> Message-ID: <4B1DB844.7090009@catalyst.net.nz> Guy K. Kloss wrote: > On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 12:22:49 Vik Olliver wrote: >> F'in hell. Cue new bug. >> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/493818 > > After reading this, one of these questions comes to my mind: Are you using a > dual head graphics adapter, or two independent ones? Laptop with a display out. Vik :v) From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Wed Dec 9 09:07:54 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Wed Dec 9 09:08:24 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Vodem with Eeebuntu Message-ID: <4B1F68EA.13527.50D5AA@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I am trying out Eeebuntu NBR on my Eee PC model 701. When I plugged in my Huawei E220 Vodem, a connection utility appeared. I selected "New Zealand" and "Vodafone" and then tried, without success, to use Firefox to access web sites. Is there anything which I am doing incorrectly or which I have failed to do? Don Johnston From blakjak at blakjak.net Wed Dec 9 09:34:18 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Wed Dec 9 09:34:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Vodem with Eeebuntu In-Reply-To: <4B1F68EA.13527.50D5AA@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B1F68EA.13527.50D5AA@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: Don, back to basics. If you connect can you them open a shell and 'ping' anything? On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, Don Johnston wrote: > I am trying out Eeebuntu NBR on my Eee PC model 701. When I plugged > in my Huawei E220 Vodem, a connection utility appeared. I selected > "New Zealand" and "Vodafone" and then tried, without success, to use > Firefox to access web sites. Is there anything which I am doing > incorrectly or which I have failed to do? > > Don Johnston > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 9 10:09:33 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 9 10:10:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Vodem with Eeebuntu In-Reply-To: <4B1F68EA.13527.50D5AA@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B1F68EA.13527.50D5AA@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <476463.32952.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Had a similar connection issue with the USB device I connected to mine (connected briefly, but dropped the connection like 5 seconds afterwards). Turned out it was the issue was the APN referenced (think it was the "unrestricted" option that worked), as well as some account issue: didn't work with an old pre-paid SIM I had, but worked fine with a mate's contracted SIM - J From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Wed Dec 9 10:36:16 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Wed Dec 9 10:36:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Eeebuntu speed and disk space Message-ID: <4B1F7DA0.606.A1C787@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I am trying out Eeebuntu NBR on a flash drive on my Eee PC model 701. It is extremely slow. Will I only get reasonable speed by using it to replace Xandros on the solid state disc? I notice that it occupies 1.7 Gb on the flash drive. Is that the amount on space which it will occupy on the solid state disk? I want to have space available to install additional software including Lyx. Don Johnston From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 9 10:43:11 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 9 10:43:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Eeebuntu speed and disk space In-Reply-To: <4B1F7DA0.606.A1C787@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B1F7DA0.606.A1C787@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <550694.92892.qm@web26105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> The installed system is still pretty small (think you can do it under 1G), and doing an installation on the host will speed it up a bit (so squashfs to contend with), btu I've filled up that little 4G with apps in a very short space of time. That being said, I know from personal experience that the biggest limitation on that system was the RAM (only 512MB). You can get 1G RAM from Dick Smith's pretty cheaply & that about doubles the performance I got out of it & relieved much of my frustration - J From andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz Wed Dec 9 17:21:31 2009 From: andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz (Andrew Simpson) Date: Wed Dec 9 17:22:25 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Vodem with Eeebuntu In-Reply-To: <4B1F68EA.13527.50D5AA@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B1F68EA.13527.50D5AA@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <20091209172131.9a124192.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:07:54 +1300 Don Johnston wrote: > I am trying out Eeebuntu NBR on my Eee PC model 701. When I plugged > in my Huawei E220 Vodem, a connection utility appeared. I selected > "New Zealand" and "Vodafone" and then tried, without success, to use > Firefox to access web sites. Is there anything which I am doing > incorrectly or which I have failed to do? Sorry - forgot to mention this the other day. Ubuntu had the wrong DNS servers (!) for Vodafone New Zealand until the current Karmic Koala release. For a while this worked fine, but in the last few months it suddenly stopped working for whatever reason. Took me hours to work out what had gone wrong! See this bug report that I filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444369 Andrew From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Thu Dec 10 08:34:05 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Thu Dec 10 08:34:37 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Eeebuntu speed and disk space In-Reply-To: <550694.92892.qm@web26105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B1F7DA0.606.A1C787@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <550694.92892.qm@web26105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40912091134t454a6fa6g167e098a5291544@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > That being said, I know from personal experience that the biggest > limitation on that system was the RAM (only 512MB). You can get 1G RAM from > Dick Smith's pretty cheaply & that about doubles the performance I got out > of it & relieved much of my frustration > Definitely replace the default OS, performance is *much* better on the SSD! Jaco is right, the extra RAM helps, but it still won't fix the fact that performance is much faster on the SSD vs the Flash drive. Worst-case you can always re-install the default Xandros OS. From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 10 14:36:45 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 10 14:37:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Vodem with Eeebuntu (Andrew Simpson) In-Reply-To: <200912092302.nB9N2KI8003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> References: <200912092302.nB9N2KI8003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> Message-ID: <4B21077D.20121.15551EE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> > Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:21:31 +1300 > From: Andrew Simpson > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Vodem with Eeebuntu > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Message-ID: <20091209172131.9a124192.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:07:54 +1300 > Don Johnston wrote: > > > I am trying out Eeebuntu NBR on my Eee PC model 701. When I plugged > > in my Huawei E220 Vodem, a connection utility appeared. I selected > > "New Zealand" and "Vodafone" and then tried, without success, to use > > Firefox to access web sites. Is there anything which I am doing > > incorrectly or which I have failed to do? > > Sorry - forgot to mention this the other day. Ubuntu had the wrong DNS servers (!) for Vodafone New Zealand until the > current Karmic Koala release. For a while this worked fine, but in the last few months it suddenly stopped working for > whatever reason. Took me hours to work out what had gone wrong! > > See this bug report that I filed: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444369 > > Andrew I have just managed to get the Vodem to connect but I now have the problem of how to deal with the above-mentioned bug. The current version of Eeebuntu is based on Ubuntu 9.04. Is there any way I can deal with the DNS problem in the meantime? Regards Don Johnston From andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz Thu Dec 10 19:27:41 2009 From: andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz (Andrew Simpson) Date: Thu Dec 10 19:28:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Vodem with Eeebuntu (Andrew Simpson) In-Reply-To: <4B21077D.20121.15551EE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <200912092302.nB9N2KI8003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B21077D.20121.15551EE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <20091210192741.69b1ba87.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:36:45 +1300 Don Johnston wrote: > > Sorry - forgot to mention this the other day. Ubuntu had the wrong DNS servers (!) for Vodafone New Zealand until the > > current Karmic Koala release. For a while this worked fine, but in the last few months it suddenly stopped working for > > whatever reason. Took me hours to work out what had gone wrong! > > > > See this bug report that I filed: > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444369 > > > > Andrew > > I have just managed to get the Vodem to connect but I now have the > problem of how to deal with the above-mentioned bug. The current > version of Eeebuntu is based on Ubuntu 9.04. Is there any way I can > deal with the DNS problem in the meantime? > Assuming that you've got 'network manager': Open up the 'Edit connections' dialogue and bring up your Vodafone connection for editing. Choose the tab 'IPv4 Settings'; the tab shows "Method: Automatic (PPP) addresses only" and two (incorrect) DNS servers are listed. Change the dropdown box to "Method: Automatic (PPP)", the two DNS servers should disappear... otherwise delete them. Vodafone gives the correct DNS servers during PPP negotiation. The previous setting prevents PPP setting the DNS servers. You can do a lookup on the DNS servers that are listed by default in Network Manager - they have nothing to do with Vodafone's operations. Andrew From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Sat Dec 12 16:33:06 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Sat Dec 12 16:33:38 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Vodem with Eeebuntu In-Reply-To: <200912102302.nBAN2MYX003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> References: <200912102302.nBAN2MYX003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> Message-ID: <4B23C5C2.30458.1A82E64@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> > On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:36:45 +1300 > Don Johnston wrote: > > > > > Sorry - forgot to mention this the other day. Ubuntu had the wrong DNS servers (!) for Vodafone New Zealand until the > > > current Karmic Koala release. For a while this worked fine, but in the last few months it suddenly stopped working for > > > whatever reason. Took me hours to work out what had gone wrong! > > > > > > See this bug report that I filed: > > > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/444369 > > > > > > Andrew > > > > I have just managed to get the Vodem to connect but I now have the > > problem of how to deal with the above-mentioned bug. The current > > version of Eeebuntu is based on Ubuntu 9.04. Is there any way I can > > deal with the DNS problem in the meantime? > > > > Assuming that you've got 'network manager': Open up the 'Edit connections' dialogue and bring up your Vodafone > connection for editing. > > Choose the tab 'IPv4 Settings'; the tab shows "Method: Automatic (PPP) addresses only" and two (incorrect) DNS servers > are listed. > > Change the dropdown box to "Method: Automatic (PPP)", the two DNS servers should disappear... otherwise delete them. > > Vodafone gives the correct DNS servers during PPP negotiation. The previous setting prevents PPP setting the DNS > servers. > > You can do a lookup on the DNS servers that are listed by default in Network Manager - they have nothing to do with > Vodafone's operations. > > Andrew There has been only one occasion on which I have managed to connect using a Vodem. I now get as far as seeing a message saying that I should click on an icon to connect. However, that message disappears quickly and there has only been one occasion on which I have seen the icon concerned. That is the occasion on which I managed to connect. To continue using an Eee PC efficiently, it appears that I will need more SSD, more memory and new glasses for my 62 year old eyes. The cheapest and best way for me to deal with all of this is probably for me to look for a second hand Eee PC Model 900 or 901 (Linux version). Can anyone comment on how those models compare with the Model 701 as far as performance is concerned. Is there much difference in performance between the 900 and 901? I have looked at reviews and the ASUS web site but they have not helped me much in that regard. My main planned future uses of an Eee PC are mobile broadband (using a Vodem) Lyx and Open Office. There is also a lot of other software which I intend to run as well when I have enough SSD. The newer netbooks generally use hard disks instead of SSD and have Windows preinstalled. Both of these features put me off. Don Johnston From apelly at monkeymasters.co.nz Sun Dec 13 12:33:34 2009 From: apelly at monkeymasters.co.nz (Aaron Pelly) Date: Sun Dec 13 12:34:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any Linux handsets for the Telecom XT network? In-Reply-To: <647533.44694.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <9da4db1f0911091745n58b98442t93ae9018d1978d3@mail.gmail.com> <647533.44694.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901ca7b83$85c36db0$914a4910$@co.nz> On 2009-11-17, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Howdy buys & girls! > > Brought back an HTC Hero from Hong Kong (worked out about NZ$750, > including an extra 4G SD) on my honeymoon.... and it ROCKS! > Haven't been able to put it down since I got it :D > Ditto!! Bought one yesterday. Best toy so far this year! From daniel at rimspace.net Sun Dec 13 13:59:10 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Sun Dec 13 13:59:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Any Linux handsets for the Telecom XT network? In-Reply-To: <647533.44694.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:45:11 +0000 (GMT)") References: <9da4db1f0911091745n58b98442t93ae9018d1978d3@mail.gmail.com> <647533.44694.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87638b4rkx.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: > Brought back an HTC Hero from Hong Kong (worked out about NZ$750, including > an extra 4G SD) on my honeymoon.... and it ROCKS! Haven't been able to put > it down since I got it :D *nod* I am very happy with my HTC Magic, that being one minor hardware rev down the tree. :) [...] > Running v.1.6 firmware (eclair?), but apparently v.2.0 (Doughnut) is coming > out "soon" The Android Developer Phone 2, or G2, is the Magic hardware[1], so it looks likely that we will see the next few releases, at least, target that platform. [...] > Bluetooth's also a bit iffy, but I think these & some other issues will be > resolved with the firmware upgrade. Be careful about doing stock firmware updates if you want to... > Also, not "thethering" without rooting the device, which I'll do after I've > installed v2 ...root the device, since they usually close off the easier paths to doing that.[2] > (not sure what that'll do to my warranty; but who cares) Typically, void it if the vendor and/or network notices, and the service person cares. OTOH, restoring the stock firmware is actually pretty easy once you have the phone rooted; that is my plan in the event of sale or a warranty call on my hardware. > As for sync with Ubuntu; sorry, but that's a no-go (no decent apps available > at present on Ubuntu). That may change with adoption. Heh. There were no decent sync options for any other mobile platform either. One of the things about Android (with the "Google Experience", which you don't want to be without[3]) is that it is tied to Google: you get sync with their calendar, contacts, and other services. If you don't want to do that, this is probably not the phone for you. The Android?2.0 OS looks like it has a path to improving this, with more support for third party data sync tools, but the core will still be fairly tied to Google. So, if you don't want that ... my advice is to buy something else. It /will/ hurt less, in the long run, than trying to work around it other ways. (...or, at least, wait to see if 2.0 does bring in sync to third party service providers or your own equipment nicely. :) > Make no mistake: the Android is PLENTY open; even has a setting for allowing > the installation of apps from from "untrusted" sources, and has another for > debugging via USB cable. This is WAY more than either the iphone, wimo, of > crackberry has to offer *nod* For what it is worth, I can't recommend rooting the phone highly enough. While my ROM of choice is the Cyanogen stuff, there are a bunch of very compelling software releases out there (including Hero / Sense UI ROMS) that give you much greater control over the device. Daniel Footnotes: [1] I believe. It could be the hero hardware. [2] Three Australia, with whom I have my phone, have one update available, specifically to address the kernel vulnerability used to root the system. No 1.6 software, no Hero UI, but they sure can roll out something to stop you rooting the phone quickly. ;) [3] That is, the Google applications: the market, gmail, maps, etc, etc. Without this, only third party market tools, and much less access to things like Google software. Not much fun, comparatively. -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Mon Dec 14 13:48:25 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Mon Dec 14 13:49:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Vodem and Eee PC Message-ID: <4B264229.5148.109BCFD@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I am using an Eee PC Model 701 running linux and, in a few days, I will change to using a Model 901. So far, using Eeebuntu NBR, I have only been able to connect to a Vodem on one occasion. On all of the other attempts, I saw a message saying that I should click on a certain icon to connect but the icon didn't appear. Has anyone managed to connect to a Vodem reliably using linux on an Eee PC? If so, what distro was used? Which distros support Vodems? I don't want to install Windows in order to use a Vodem but mobile broadband is one of my main uses for an Eee PC. For this reason, I will try any linux distro which might do the job. Don Johnston From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 14 13:53:01 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 14 13:53:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Vodem and Eee PC In-Reply-To: <4B264229.5148.109BCFD@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B264229.5148.109BCFD@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <4B258C6D.6060501@catalyst.net.nz> Don Johnston wrote: > I am using an Eee PC Model 701 running linux and, in a few days, I > will change to using a Model 901. > ... > Has anyone managed to connect to a Vodem reliably using linux on an > Eee PC? If so, what distro was used? Yes. NBR. But using "sudo wvdial vodem" instead of the GUI stuff. Can share config file. Vik :v) From gjl.wiggill at gmail.com Mon Dec 14 15:30:08 2009 From: gjl.wiggill at gmail.com (Gregory and Juanita Wiggill) Date: Mon Dec 14 15:30:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze Message-ID: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> Hi I have been using Ubuntu since hardy heron release. I have karmic Koala currently and in the last week it 'freezed' x 3 . ( unable to use keyboard ie Ctrl-Alt-backspace , mouse still moves but not able to do anything) Had to hard shutdown . Any ideas from anyone where to start looking for a solution? regards greg From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Mon Dec 14 15:36:02 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Mon Dec 14 15:36:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912131836se33a040y829bd6c6ce796ec6@mail.gmail.com> Any idea what you are doing when it happens? Since going to 9.10 I've been geting this symptom occasionally when shutting down Aisleriot, but the system comes back after a few minutes ... the longer aisleriot has been running the longer it takes to come back. In my case it is still possible to ssh in from another PC, so whatever is happening is happening to the X windowing system. Bruce 2009/12/14 Gregory and Juanita Wiggill > Hi > > I have been using Ubuntu since hardy heron release. I have karmic Koala > currently and in the last week > > it 'freezed' x 3 . ( unable to use keyboard ie Ctrl-Alt-backspace , mouse > still moves but not able to do anything) Had to hard shutdown . > > Any ideas from anyone where to start looking for a solution? > > regards > > greg > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Bruce Clement When a co-worker said he didn't want his kids getting the H1N1 vaccine because it was too new and "they haven't tested it enough", I blurted out something like, "So you'd rather test a new and poorly understood virus on them instead?" I'm not entirely proud of fighting vague and irrational fear of the unknown by invoking vague and irrational fear of the unknown, but I think it did make an impression. Petr?a Mitchell From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 14 15:38:53 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 14 15:39:16 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B25A53D.4070701@catalyst.net.nz> Gregory and Juanita Wiggill wrote: > I have been using Ubuntu since hardy heron release. I have karmic Koala > currently and in the last week > > it 'freezed' x 3 . ( unable to use keyboard ie Ctrl-Alt-backspace , mouse > still moves but not able to do anything) Had to hard shutdown . > > Any ideas from anyone where to start looking for a solution? Happens all the time on Karmic. If you're running an nvidia card, switch to the nv driver - it's less prone to crash (but not immune). Disable anything that thinks it can change the screen brightness (that kills your command prompt for some reason). The only way I can completely avoid this is by not starting X and SSHing in from another machine! If you SSH in from another machine after the bug has happened, your prompt will not work. I've logged the bug at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/473613 Please add your findings if it looks like the same thing. So far this bug is not confirmed by anyone else, so it's not being acted on. Vik :v) From vik at catalyst.net.nz Mon Dec 14 15:41:10 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Mon Dec 14 15:41:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B25A5C6.6010104@catalyst.net.nz> Gregory and Juanita Wiggill wrote: > Hi > > I have been using Ubuntu since hardy heron release. I have karmic Koala > currently and in the last week > > it 'freezed' x 3 . ( unable to use keyboard ie Ctrl-Alt-backspace , mouse > still moves but not able to do anything) Had to hard shutdown . Damn. Just confirmed that it's still present after an upgrade today! I find X will not shutdown properly and I need to use [Alt][SysReq][ U S B ] to reboot safely. Gonna do that now. Vik :v) From unclerichard at xtra.co.nz Mon Dec 14 16:20:45 2009 From: unclerichard at xtra.co.nz (R Innes) Date: Mon Dec 14 16:21:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <4B25A5C6.6010104@catalyst.net.nz> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B25A5C6.6010104@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <4B25AF0D.2090101@xtra.co.nz> I too have experienced this with Karmic and traced it to the Graphic card driver. I cured it but deopping back one on Nvidia driver, that is from the latest recommended one to an earlier recommend driver. Just to be on the safe I I cut back on the eye candy. No trouble since. Richard I From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 14 16:26:09 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 14 16:26:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413260.85570.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > unable to use keyboard ie Ctrl-Alt-backspace , mouse >still moves but not able to do anything) Had to hard shutdown . I've had sporadic freezes too, but that was due to misbehaving VM's Ctrl-Alt-backspace has been disabled for some time now (goodness knows why). Referred to as "dontzap" If you're able to SSH in from another device on the network, you could try restarting the gdm daemon From sond at ihug.co.nz Tue Dec 15 12:21:36 2009 From: sond at ihug.co.nz (sond@ihug.co.nz) Date: Tue Dec 15 12:25:32 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Cable Co Required Message-ID: Hi All.. Some friends of mine are building a new office ( Avondale ), and are needing all cabling installed for network and phones etc.. can anyone recommend an experienced and reliable (and GNU/Linux friendly) contractor ? cheers sond From ghodmode at ghodmode.com Tue Dec 15 21:19:37 2009 From: ghodmode at ghodmode.com (Ghodmode) Date: Tue Dec 15 21:20:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> On 14/12/09 15:30, Gregory and Juanita Wiggill wrote: > Hi > > I have been using Ubuntu since hardy heron release. I have karmic Koala > currently and in the last week > > it 'freezed' x 3 . ( unable to use keyboard ie Ctrl-Alt-backspace , mouse > still moves but not able to do anything) Had to hard shutdown . > > Any ideas from anyone where to start looking for a solution? > > regards > > greg > Have you tried Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get to a virtual console? Login there and get a process listing or use top to see if anything's using a lot of CPU. Then cross your fingers and take a guess at what processes to kill :) Gnome-screensaver occasionally locks up on me and this is the fix. -- *Vince Aggrippino* a.k.a. Ghodmode www.ghodmode.com From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Tue Dec 15 22:13:11 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Tue Dec 15 22:13:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> Whatever my freezes are they can't be related to nvidia as I don't have nvidia display (See below). Any idea what I should try next? Bruce bruce@bruce:~$ lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8601 [Apollo ProMedia] (rev 05) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8601 [Apollo ProMedia AGP] 00:07.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super South] (rev 40) 00:07.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06) 00:07.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 1a) 00:07.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82xxxxx UHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev 1a) 00:07.4 Unclassified device [0080]: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super ACPI] (rev 40) 00:07.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50) 00:0e.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Trident Microsystems CyberBlade/i1 (rev 6a) 2009/12/15 Ghodmode > On 14/12/09 15:30, Gregory and Juanita Wiggill wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I have been using Ubuntu since hardy heron release. I have karmic Koala >> currently and in the last week >> >> it 'freezed' x 3 . ( unable to use keyboard ie Ctrl-Alt-backspace , mouse >> still moves but not able to do anything) Had to hard shutdown . >> >> Any ideas from anyone where to start looking for a solution? >> >> regards >> >> greg >> >> > > Have you tried Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get to a virtual console? Login there and > get a process listing or use top to see if anything's using a lot of CPU. > Then cross your fingers and take a guess at what processes to kill :) > > Gnome-screensaver occasionally locks up on me and this is the fix. > > > -- > *Vince Aggrippino* > a.k.a. Ghodmode > www.ghodmode.com > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Bruce Clement When a co-worker said he didn't want his kids getting the H1N1 vaccine because it was too new and "they haven't tested it enough", I blurted out something like, "So you'd rather test a new and poorly understood virus on them instead?" I'm not entirely proud of fighting vague and irrational fear of the unknown by invoking vague and irrational fear of the unknown, but I think it did make an impression. Petr?a Mitchell From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 15 23:54:34 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 15 23:55:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Bruce Clement wrote: > Whatever my freezes are they can't be related to nvidia as I don't have > nvidia display (See below). > > Any idea what I should try next? > > Bruce Looking at the original post, if the mouse still moves but X is just unresponsive.... Given that Ctrl-Alt-Backspace have been disabled in Ubuntu (that was news to me), I guess the next thing to check would be whether the keyboard is responsive so try switching to a terminal. No pattern to it? i.e. not when you start a particular application? I'm presuming you're using Gnome? This could become important as it doesn't seem like your computer's completely locking up... The Alt-SysRq (Alt-PrintScr) combination is your friend here. Check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key If your keyboard isn't responsive, try Alt-SysRq-r. This will hopefully get you keyboard back. What's the hard drive activity like while it's crashing? Is it thrashing? Regards, Nevyn. From gjl.wiggill at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 09:21:04 2009 From: gjl.wiggill at gmail.com (Gregory and Juanita Wiggill) Date: Wed Dec 16 09:21:35 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> Except for Jaco's command line solution for enabling Ctrl-Alt-Backspace I found this GUI one in Gnome to enable "kill X server" System > Preferences > Keyboard > Layouts > Layout options> Key sequence to kill X server It was enabled prior to the freezing episodes . Unfortunately no pattern to my freezes but did try to print something with one of the freezes. Greg On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Nevyn wrote: > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Bruce Clement > wrote: > > Whatever my freezes are they can't be related to nvidia as I don't have > > nvidia display (See below). > > > > Any idea what I should try next? > > > > Bruce > > Looking at the original post, if the mouse still moves but X is just > unresponsive.... Given that Ctrl-Alt-Backspace have been disabled in > Ubuntu (that was news to me), I guess the next thing to check would be > whether the keyboard is responsive so try switching to a terminal. > > No pattern to it? i.e. not when you start a particular application? > I'm presuming you're using Gnome? This could become important as it > doesn't seem like your computer's completely locking up... The > Alt-SysRq (Alt-PrintScr) combination is your friend here. Check: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key > > If your keyboard isn't responsive, try Alt-SysRq-r. This will > hopefully get you keyboard back. What's the hard drive activity like > while it's crashing? Is it thrashing? > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 09:40:48 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Dec 16 09:41:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Gregory and Juanita Wiggill wrote: > Except for Jaco's command line solution for enabling Ctrl-Alt-Backspace I > found this GUI one in Gnome to enable "kill X server" > > System > Preferences > Keyboard > Layouts > Layout options> Key sequence to > kill X server > > It was enabled prior to the freezing episodes . > Unfortunately no pattern to my freezes but did try to print something with > one of the freezes. > > Greg So have you been unable to get to the terminal? After trying Atl-SysRq-R? From gjl.wiggill at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 10:07:06 2009 From: gjl.wiggill at gmail.com (Gregory and Juanita Wiggill) Date: Wed Dec 16 10:07:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62e39cea0912151307vebf0805w684b231b85602b42@mail.gmail.com> Couldn't use keyboard at all ie Ctrl-Alt- Backspace(enabled), Ctrl-Alt-F1 etc. Mouse moved but was unable to do anything. Didn't know about Alt-SysRq-r at the time,but now I do , will give it a go if it happens again. On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Nevyn wrote: > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Gregory and Juanita Wiggill > wrote: > > Except for Jaco's command line solution for enabling Ctrl-Alt-Backspace I > > found this GUI one in Gnome to enable "kill X server" > > > > System > Preferences > Keyboard > Layouts > Layout options> Key sequence > to > > kill X server > > > > It was enabled prior to the freezing episodes . > > Unfortunately no pattern to my freezes but did try to print something > with > > one of the freezes. > > > > Greg > > So have you been unable to get to the terminal? After trying Atl-SysRq-R? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 11:53:02 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Dec 16 11:53:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912151307vebf0805w684b231b85602b42@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151307vebf0805w684b231b85602b42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Gregory and Juanita Wiggill wrote: > Couldn't use keyboard at all ie Ctrl-Alt- Backspace(enabled), Ctrl-Alt-F1 > etc. Mouse moved but was unable to do anything. > > Didn't know about Alt-SysRq-r ?at the time,but now I do , will give it a go > if it happens again. Not sure just how magic it is - it sometimes works. Sometimes doesn't. Gets you to a terminal at the very least. And about the hard drive activity when it crashes? Is it noisy? From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 16 13:15:50 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 16 13:16:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >System > Preferences > Keyboard > Layouts > Layout options> Key sequence to >kill X server Yea, that's the officially-unpublished solution under karmic (sorry, should've said). Loads of "nice little surprises" like that in the new gdm. The "dontzap" command has been deprecated under karmic, but actually they achieve the same result: simply adding the following line to the ServerFlags portion of the xorg.conf Option "DontZap" "False" Sometimes I end up restarting the dgm service from a terminal (sometimes over ssh if the K/V/M become unresponsive) If all else fails, you can kick the machine/bang the keyboard. Doesn't solve the problem, but the pain distracts you for a while :p From vik at catalyst.net.nz Wed Dec 16 13:28:24 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Wed Dec 16 13:28:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B2829A8.3010602@catalyst.net.nz> Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Yea, that's the officially-unpublished solution under karmic (sorry, should've said). Loads of "nice little surprises" like that in the new gdm. > The "dontzap" command has been deprecated under karmic, but actually they achieve the same result: simply adding the following line to the ServerFlags portion of the xorg.conf > Option "DontZap" "False" Right, that's going back in for a start. Vik :v) From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 16 14:08:32 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 16 14:09:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <4B2829A8.3010602@catalyst.net.nz> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B2829A8.3010602@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <863759.70408.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >Right, that's going back in for a start. Yea, don't quite understand why on earth it was taken out in the first place; it's not as if it's a key-combo that could be hit by accident, and it's more useful than not having it there... Other than that combo, do you guys know of any other nifty combo's or "easter-eggs" that come in handy? (such as Ctrl+Alt+Fx, etc) From vik at catalyst.net.nz Wed Dec 16 14:14:27 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Wed Dec 16 14:14:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <863759.70408.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B2829A8.3010602@catalyst.net.nz> <863759.70408.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B283473.1050702@catalyst.net.nz> Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Other than that combo, do you guys know of any other nifty combo's or "easter-eggs" that come in handy? (such as Ctrl+Alt+Fx, etc) Shift-NumLock turns your keypad into a mouse. Vik :v) From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 16 14:42:00 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 16 14:42:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <4B283473.1050702@catalyst.net.nz> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B2829A8.3010602@catalyst.net.nz> <863759.70408.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B283473.1050702@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <247567.84799.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >Shift-NumLock turns your keypad into a mouse. nice one! thanks now I've actually got a use for it! From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 15:06:21 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Dec 16 15:06:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <247567.84799.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B2829A8.3010602@catalyst.net.nz> <863759.70408.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B283473.1050702@catalyst.net.nz> <247567.84799.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: >>Shift-NumLock turns your keypad into a mouse. > > nice one! ?thanks > now I've actually got a use for it! *gasp* you don't use the numeric keypad? I always feel lost without it. From vik at catalyst.net.nz Wed Dec 16 15:14:38 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Wed Dec 16 15:15:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> <518250.53131.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B2829A8.3010602@catalyst.net.nz> <863759.70408.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B283473.1050702@catalyst.net.nz> <247567.84799.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B28428E.5060305@catalyst.net.nz> Nevyn wrote: > *gasp* you don't use the numeric keypad? I always feel lost without it. I don't use it much, but the cat likes it. Vik :v) From ghodmode at ghodmode.com Wed Dec 16 18:53:50 2009 From: ghodmode at ghodmode.com (Ghodmode) Date: Wed Dec 16 18:54:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com Message-ID: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> http://blog.ghodmode.com/2009/12/floss-dont-forget-l.html Since I've been seeing references to Free and Open-Source Software much more often lately, I've been giving some thought about the "Libre" aspect of the concept. I think that many people are missing it entirely. They understand "free" as the same thing that they see at their shopping mall. While Mr Stallman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_stallman ) deserves a great deal of respect for all that he's done for "the movement", his approach can be a little (or a lot) offensive. I wrote something relatively short, and in my own words. Hopefully, it's friendly and understandable to anyone. I think the topic is relevant to Linux and OSS group discussions, so I'm sending this email to the groups I support. I'd like to invite you all to read and leave comments or criticism. Thank you. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Vince Aggrippino* a.k.a. Ghodmode www.ghodmode.com email ghodmode@ghodmode.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ blog delicious identi.ca twitter From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Wed Dec 16 23:02:18 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Wed Dec 16 23:03:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Karmic Koala freeze In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912131830r4d9a7113g56bb903418d4ee@mail.gmail.com> <4B274699.3020002@ghodmode.com> <9da4db1f0912150113p2357f0dtb3a2af4b85014df3@mail.gmail.com> <62e39cea0912151221j3443d4fblad50dbd8c2695a5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912160202y1a03450fv393a250c6f672323@mail.gmail.com> This page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/DontZap/ gives the Karmic settings to re-enable alt-ctrl-backspace for gnome, KDE, command line and even HAL. I still can't believe they took it out of the default, and their reasoning seems to reflect the dumbing down of the product attitude that closed source OS vendors often have. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." -- George Orwell, Animal Farm Bruce 2009/12/16 Gregory and Juanita Wiggill > Except for Jaco's command line solution for enabling Ctrl-Alt-Backspace I > found this GUI one in Gnome to enable "kill X server" > > -- Bruce Clement When a co-worker said he didn't want his kids getting the H1N1 vaccine because it was too new and "they haven't tested it enough", I blurted out something like, "So you'd rather test a new and poorly understood virus on them instead?" I'm not entirely proud of fighting vague and irrational fear of the unknown by invoking vague and irrational fear of the unknown, but I think it did make an impression. Petr?a Mitchell From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 17 08:15:21 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 17 08:15:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> Message-ID: <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> I find the the acronym "FLOSS" easier to convey than "FOSS". I try to avoid the "free" connotation; think it causes more problems than it's worth (i.e. implied worth = 0) I respect RMS for his contributions, but I'm no fan; I'm no fan of any fundamentalist/militant/extremist. It's either their way, or no way, and there's no gray area or space to take new ideas on-board, or change their way of thinking to keep pace with a changing world. - J From r.carter at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Dec 17 08:29:25 2009 From: r.carter at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Robert Carter) Date: Thu Dec 17 08:30:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> It's hard to convey the idea of 'free' meaning empowerment. Although FLOSS is widely used I find acronyms tend to obscure meaning. To me 'Open' has become the defacto prefix for the free software movement, the ethic of sharing and of a supportive community. RMS has made a big contribution but I agree he's too much of a fundamentalist. When he spoke at Auckland Uni his lecture was video recorded, but he insisted that it be published in a non-proprietary format (ie not flash video). Which is fine, but this effectively limited his audience to those who had players that could handle ogv. To me that was a good example of the pedantic, impractical kind of thinking that the open and free software movement can do without. Rob On 17/12/2009, at 8:15 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > I find the the acronym "FLOSS" easier to convey than "FOSS". > I try to avoid the "free" connotation; think it causes more problems > than it's worth (i.e. implied worth = 0) > > > I respect RMS for his contributions, but I'm no fan; I'm no fan of > any fundamentalist/militant/extremist. > It's either their way, or no way, and there's no gray area or space > to take new ideas on-board, or change their way of thinking to keep > pace with a changing world. > > - J > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 17 08:48:54 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 17 08:49:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <808838.12884.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >To me 'Open' has become the defacto prefix for the free software movement, the ethic of sharing and of a supportive community. Originally I also referred to OSS, but some pointed out to me that this is "wrong", so I made an effort to appease them by including the "FL". "FLOSS" is a lot more "catchy"/memorable than FOSS. But when I speak with people on the subject, I refer to "Open Source Software" or simply "Open Source", as is the case at work. Usually people don't care for the politics/rhetoric; in fact, more often than not, it'll put them off the subject It's very much the same discussion as GPLvX vs BSD licensing; GPL still dominated the FLOSS landscape in terms of count/market-share, but it's staring to lose some serious ground to the other, such as Mozilla, BSD, etc. (see references to "license-poisoning" & how this turns professionals off GPL) http://www.blackducksoftware.com/oss/licenses#top20 - J From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 17 10:41:08 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 17 11:27:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Replacement of linux dual bootable with Windows Message-ID: <4B2A0AC4.29003.6ED9CE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> On my desktop computer, I have virtual machines running on a Windows XP Professional host. There is an extended Windows partition with three logical drives. I want to change, progressively, to using a Linux Mint host. As a first step, I intend to install Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable with Windows. I then intend to install VMware Server in Mint and run the virtual machines (which are in Windows drives) from the Mint Host. When Linux Mint 9 LTS becomes available, I am thinking of changing to that as the host. I am wondering if the following approach would work for changing from Mint 8 to Mint 9 LTS as the host: 1. Take a Ghost image of the Windows "C" drive. 2. Remove the linux partitions. 3. Reinstall Windows in the "C" drive. 4. Recover the "C" drive from the Ghost image. 5. Install Mint 9 LTS dual bootable with Windows. 6. Install VMware Server in Mint 9 LTS. Would this work? If not then what would? Don Johnston From mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com Thu Dec 17 11:29:02 2009 From: mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com (Colin Coghill) Date: Thu Dec 17 11:29:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> As opposed to pretty much the entire rest of the world who limit their audience to people who have proprietary software? What's the difference, except that he's in a minority? - Colin On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Robert Carter wrote: > Which is fine, but this effectively limited his audience to those who had > players that could handle ogv. To me that was a good example of the > pedantic, impractical kind of thinking that the open and free software > movement can do without. > > Rob > > > On 17/12/2009, at 8:15 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > I find the the acronym "FLOSS" easier to convey than "FOSS". >> I try to avoid the "free" connotation; think it causes more problems than >> it's worth (i.e. implied worth = 0) >> >> >> I respect RMS for his contributions, but I'm no fan; I'm no fan of any >> fundamentalist/militant/extremist. >> It's either their way, or no way, and there's no gray area or space to >> take new ideas on-board, or change their way of thinking to keep pace with a >> changing world. >> >> - J >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > From thetoolman at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 11:31:08 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Thu Dec 17 11:31:37 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Replacement of linux dual bootable with Windows In-Reply-To: <4B2A0AC4.29003.6ED9CE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B2A0AC4.29003.6ED9CE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: You wont be able to move a physical (nonVM) windows install into a VM, if thats what you are attempting. As talked about already, the VM is seen as different hardware to your actual stuff. On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > On my desktop computer, I have virtual machines running on a Windows > XP Professional host. There is an extended Windows partition with > three logical drives. > > I want to change, progressively, to using a Linux Mint host. As a > first step, I intend to install Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable > with Windows. I then intend to install VMware Server in Mint and run > the virtual machines (which are in Windows drives) from the Mint > Host. When Linux Mint 9 LTS becomes available, I am thinking of > changing to that as the host. > > I am wondering if the following approach would work for changing from > Mint 8 to Mint 9 LTS as the host: > 1. Take a Ghost image of the Windows "C" drive. > 2. Remove the linux partitions. > 3. Reinstall Windows in the "C" drive. > 4. Recover the "C" drive from the Ghost image. > 5. Install Mint 9 LTS dual bootable with Windows. > 6. Install VMware Server in Mint 9 LTS. > > Would this work? If not then what would? > > Don Johnston > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 48 1275 - my old-new number! From vik at catalyst.net.nz Thu Dec 17 11:33:45 2009 From: vik at catalyst.net.nz (Vik Olliver) Date: Thu Dec 17 11:34:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> Colin Coghill wrote: > As opposed to pretty much the entire rest of the world who limit their > audience to people > who have proprietary software? > > What's the difference, except that he's in a minority? The difference is that those with proprietary software have the option of getting a Free and free ogv player, while those on Free platforms do not have the option of being given free proprietary players. Vik :v) From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 13:09:35 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 17 13:10:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Replacement of linux dual bootable with Windows In-Reply-To: <4B2A0AC4.29003.6ED9CE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B2A0AC4.29003.6ED9CE@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > On my desktop computer, I have virtual machines running on a Windows > XP Professional host. There is an extended Windows partition with > three logical drives. > > I want to change, progressively, to using a Linux Mint host. As a > first step, I intend to install Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable > with Windows. I then intend to install VMware Server in Mint and run > the virtual machines (which are in Windows drives) from the Mint > Host. When Linux Mint 9 LTS becomes available, I am thinking of > changing to that as the host. > > I am wondering if the following approach would work for changing from > Mint 8 to Mint 9 LTS as the host: > 1. Take a Ghost image of the Windows "C" drive. > 2. Remove the linux partitions. > 3. Reinstall Windows in the "C" drive. > 4. Recover the "C" drive from the Ghost image. > 5. Install Mint 9 LTS dual bootable with Windows. > 6. Install VMware Server in Mint 9 LTS. > > Would this work? If not then what would? > > Don Johnston Can you not just do the upgrade via the packaging tools? That'll save all the messing around with ghosting and removing and reinstalling etc. From r.carter at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Dec 17 13:25:16 2009 From: r.carter at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Robert Carter) Date: Thu Dec 17 13:25:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: If someone sends me a link to a video I want to be able to click it and have it play. If you have to install software, you will loose 90% of your audience. For some people like RMS, that is a reasonable sacrifice to make. I personally think it's not. Rob On 17/12/2009, at 11:33 AM, Vik Olliver wrote: > Colin Coghill wrote: >> As opposed to pretty much the entire rest of the world who limit >> their >> audience to people >> who have proprietary software? >> What's the difference, except that he's in a minority? > > The difference is that those with proprietary software have the > option of getting a Free and free ogv player, while those on Free > platforms do not have the option of being given free proprietary > players. > > Vik :v) > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com Thu Dec 17 15:03:40 2009 From: mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com (Colin Coghill) Date: Thu Dec 17 15:04:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> Message-ID: <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> So you'd rather that 10% of your audience had to fork out a lot of money to buy a system they don't want and can't use just so that they can watch a video? Compared to the other 90% who can easily get the software for free for their system? - Colin On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Robert Carter wrote: > If someone sends me a link to a video I want to be able to click it and > have it play. If you have to install software, you will loose 90% of your > audience. For some people like RMS, that is a reasonable sacrifice to make. > I personally think it's not. > > Rob > > > On 17/12/2009, at 11:33 AM, Vik Olliver wrote: > > Colin Coghill wrote: >> >>> As opposed to pretty much the entire rest of the world who limit their >>> audience to people >>> who have proprietary software? >>> What's the difference, except that he's in a minority? >>> >> >> The difference is that those with proprietary software have the option of >> getting a Free and free ogv player, while those on Free platforms do not >> have the option of being given free proprietary players. >> >> Vik :v) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > From r.carter at cs.auckland.ac.nz Thu Dec 17 15:12:18 2009 From: r.carter at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Robert Carter) Date: Thu Dec 17 15:12:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Software and computers in general should deliver an engaging experience that is welcoming to people who are not interested in technical matters. Content producers should be aware of this and account for it. Aim for 99% and try to exclude no-one, but don't allow partisan politics around free software to affect user experience. Thats the one sure way to drive people away. Rob Phone +64 9 373 7599 x85336 On 17/12/2009, at 3:03 PM, Colin Coghill wrote: > So you'd rather that 10% of your audience had to fork out a lot of > money to > buy a system they don't want > and can't use just so that they can watch a video? Compared to the > other 90% > who can easily get > the software for free for their system? > > - Colin > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Robert Carter > wrote: > >> If someone sends me a link to a video I want to be able to click it >> and >> have it play. If you have to install software, you will loose 90% >> of your >> audience. For some people like RMS, that is a reasonable sacrifice >> to make. >> I personally think it's not. >> >> Rob >> >> >> On 17/12/2009, at 11:33 AM, Vik Olliver wrote: >> >> Colin Coghill wrote: >>> >>>> As opposed to pretty much the entire rest of the world who limit >>>> their >>>> audience to people >>>> who have proprietary software? >>>> What's the difference, except that he's in a minority? >>>> >>> >>> The difference is that those with proprietary software have the >>> option of >>> getting a Free and free ogv player, while those on Free platforms >>> do not >>> have the option of being given free proprietary players. >>> >>> Vik :v) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> AuckLUG mailing list >>> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >>> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> >> > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 17 15:27:32 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 17 15:28:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Keep in mind that the flash plug-in, though not "libre", is plenty "free"-enough. So much so that it's one of the most widely-distributed piece of software out there, and it has enable NUMEROUS businesses to be based on it (including *that* video channel that EVERYBODY knows about & have used to a pretty large extent - including the Moodle site & Linux.com, and a few other 100% "Free" organisations) You realise just how important it is one it stops working on your 64-bit OS... I think the point Rob is trying to convey[1] is that you can keep to your principles, but you don't have to be an A$$ about it, nor should you be too surprised if you alienate your audience if you're insistant that that they adopt your uncompromising principals [1] sorry Rob, I'm not intending to speak on your behalf From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 15:49:32 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 17 15:50:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > I think the point Rob is trying to convey[1] is that you can keep to your principles, but you don't have to be an A$$ about it, nor should you be too surprised if you alienate your audience if you're insistant that that they adopt your uncompromising principals > > [1] sorry Rob, I'm not intending to speak on your behalf I think the important point to make here is to think about your audience. The people you actually want to see the video. If the intended audience are the guys who care about the freedom of formats then Richard Stallman's position on the matter is just fine. If his intended audience however was to spread the word of freedom, then alienating that audience by using a not so common video format probably wasn't the greatest of moves. It also makes Free software look like a great big hassle if they're having to make an effort just to watch a video which tells them why the format that they've never encountered before is important. Regards, Nevyn. From mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com Thu Dec 17 15:58:23 2009 From: mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com (Colin Coghill) Date: Thu Dec 17 15:58:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2c6053f80912161858i5a4710c2pfefd3cdd4352c853@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Nevyn wrote: > > If his intended audience however was to spread the word of freedom, > then alienating that audience by using a not so common video format > probably wasn't the greatest of moves. It also makes Free software > look like a great big hassle if they're having to make an effort just > to watch a video which tells them why the format that they've never > encountered before > Well the other side of it is that by publishing the video in proprietary formats they're telling people that free software can't even do video. The real culprits are the ones making sure the major proprietary systems can't play freely available video formats out of the box. - Colin From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 17 16:01:45 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 17 16:02:16 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >makes Free software look like a great big hassle Free software IS a lot of (often frustratingly-hard) work. Either you can have it on the cheap, or you can have it easy, but not very often both From mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com Thu Dec 17 16:08:10 2009 From: mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com (Colin Coghill) Date: Thu Dec 17 16:08:41 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2c6053f80912161908t4eb97b83vce6fe64a9c76afac@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > >makes Free software look like a great big hassle > Free software IS a lot of (often frustratingly-hard) work. > Either you can have it on the cheap, or you can have it easy, but not very > often both > > My experience has been quite the opposite. I use free software because it is less hassle and much easier. It's nice that it's cheaper, but that's a bonus. The only difficult bits are the ones caused by people deliberately trying to lock it out. (eg by preventing people developing hardware drivers, or by adding every codec but the free ones to their media players and office packages) - Colin From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 16:09:46 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 17 16:10:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: >>makes Free software look like a great big hassle > Free software IS a lot of (often frustratingly-hard) work. > Either you can have it on the cheap, or you can have it easy, but not very often both I've got to disagree with you there. I refer you to my grumbling about installing Ubuntu vs. Installing Windows. Driver woes (especially cringe worthy when USB and network don't work out of the box). Free software has given me software that is both gratis and libre and, can be just as easy as proprietary options if not more so. Take Firefox for example - great piece of software. Kicks I.E.'s butt in my opinion. Tabbed browsing, which was missing from I.E. for a long time, feels intuitive. Easy... Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 17 16:57:16 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 17 16:57:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <2c6053f80912161908t4eb97b83vce6fe64a9c76afac@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <82CBFA6E-EC3D-4520-A83E-636925A582CA@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2c6053f80912161429s7fa07a7fod89a1544e4e694c@mail.gmail.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2c6053f80912161908t4eb97b83vce6fe64a9c76afac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <218536.1390.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Yes, usability in FLOSS is improving by the day, but (and I'm ashamed to have to say this)Mac's usability is still faaaaaaar superior than that of Ubuntu (or replace your disto here) In Mac, stuff *just work* (wife's a mac-user). No fiddling, no faffing, it just works. It works the way you expect it to & hardly ever breaks; it's EXTREMELY intuitive. We have the advantage of few years' worth of experience, working through the issues in the less "glamorous" days, which makes things a lot easier (& us a lot more fault-tolerant). But I've tried, on numerous occasions, to "convert" laymen users (i.e. the Moms & Dads market) to a FLOSS desktop (usually Ubuntu), and it's not gone down too well, at all: there's ALWAYS a point that they reach where they need to do something in the CLI (a HUGE no-no & a 100% deal-breaker), frequently there's an issue with hardware or drivers, and a lot of the apps are problematic (look at PulseAudio up until now). As a prime example: SIP VoIP SoftPhone. Has anyone actually tried making use of a GNU/Linux-based softphone (other than Skype)? I use Twinkle on a daily basis, and that's after a LOT of tweaking & it still not quite right. I've actually lost a customer because I was unable to provide a SoftPhone for their (was Xandros; "upgraded" it to Ubuntu at no charge for them) system, though now I'm wiser for the experience. Given the choice, I'll make use of the FLOSS tech where & when I can (even with all the hacking required to get it to work), but I'm a glutton for punishment, and there are times where I cannot in good conscience recommend a 100% FLOSS solution (or even OS for that matter) to a technophobe/luddite Let me ask you this: of your immediate family-members (maybe include your cousins, aunts & uncles in this equation), how many of them are FLOSS-converts & use it whenever possible? - J From mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com Thu Dec 17 17:21:40 2009 From: mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com (Colin Coghill) Date: Thu Dec 17 17:22:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <218536.1390.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2c6053f80912161908t4eb97b83vce6fe64a9c76afac@mail.gmail.com> <218536.1390.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2c6053f80912162021s33b59354p71151c893aec80d8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > In Mac, stuff *just work* (wife's a mac-user). No fiddling, no faffing, it > just works. It works the way you expect it to & hardly ever breaks; it's > EXTREMELY intuitive. > > Until it doesn't. Then you can't fix it. I'm from the UK. About half my DVDs are from the UK. They won't play on my Mac. When I use two monitors (often) the menu bar is really inconvenient and difficult to use because it's so far away from the windows. About half the videos I try to play with Quicktime, won't. I find it almost impossible to right-click on things - I can never remember the obscure key combination to do so. My older Mac could read my ext2 backup hard-drive just fine. The one on the new Macbook can't. In fact, I can't find a filesystem to put on an external drive containing large backup files that can be read and written by the Mac, Windows, and Linux. And it's not Linux that fails here. I love my Mac to bits, but it hardly "just works". And many of these things I can't fix. Whereas on Linux, audio was a bit flaky. I fixed that. Apache wasn't configured right. I fixed that. The graphics driver didn't pick up my monitor right. Fixed. > Let me ask you this: of your immediate family-members (maybe include your > cousins, aunts & uncles in this equation), how many of them are > FLOSS-converts & use it whenever possible? > Actually both parents, independently. But they're from an era when computer people liked to share and haven't adapted to this age of lockup and restriction when operating systems are all about stopping you from doing things with your computer. - Colin From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 17 17:50:15 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 17 17:50:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <2c6053f80912162021s33b59354p71151c893aec80d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <4B296049.6050009@catalyst.net.nz> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2c6053f80912161908t4eb97b83vce6fe64a9c76afac@mail.gmail.com> <218536.1390.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2c6053f80912162021s33b59354p71151c893aec80d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <878846.30529.qm@web26105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >Until it doesn't. Then you can't fix it. Too true. I've had some hard lessons in that area too. But for the majority of users & uses, it's an absolute dream On my wife's machine, I've managed to make use of FLOSS apps on nearly everywhere, other than the actual OS (duh!) & the Avid & PhotoShop suite that she uses for work (yes! I did try converting her to Gimp, but it's simply not there yet). I have a MacBook Pro (SantaRosa), which is pretty fantastic hardware btw, & running Ubuntu on it natively. No worries there since Jaunty (but I think I broke my BlueTooth & LIRC) >About half my DVDs are from the UK. They won't play on my Mac. I got around that in 2 ways (results may vary): I installed an additional drive for watching those disks, & by using VLS as my default >because it's so far away from the windows. I quite like it, & I think there'sa gnome tweak to get the same functionality on GNU/Linux >About half the videos I try to play with Quicktime, won't. Yip, CODEC issue. Got around it by loading some obscure FLOSS pack (oh, the irony!) >I find it almost impossible to right-click on things - I can never remember >the obscure key combination to do so. Know what you mean, but works fine if you have a 2/3-button mouse >My older Mac could read my ext2 backup hard-drive just fine. >...And it's not Linux that fails here. You get an ext2 driver to enable you to read EXT FS's, but no write. You also get a HPFS driver to enable you to read on a GNU/Linux system But in both cases, writes are out of the question, or extremely dangerous But this is not a purely Mac issue; the only FS I've found that is universally compatible (other than FAT with it's size restriction, which kills that option), is NTFS (or NTFS-3g) It's not perfect, but it's the only workable solution I've found thus far (unless someone has a better idea) >I love my Mac to bits, but it hardly "just works". And many of these things >I can't fix. >Whereas on Linux, audio was a bit flaky. I fixed that. >Apache wasn't configured right. I fixed that. >The graphics driver didn't pick up my monitor right. Fixed. Cuts both ways; the only difference if the access to the underlying info. Mac is a desktop & media environment; I wouldn't use it for a server Right tool....right job... >Actually both parents, independently. wow! I haven't been able to convince my mom to even use a computer, & the courses she has access to are all ms-based (yea, REAL big surprise) I don't think my dad even cares, as long as he has a browser. I think my brother has resigned himself to the fact that I'll only support his system if it's running GNU/Linux, & not the vista it was shipped with >But they're from an era when computer people liked to share and haven't >adapted to this age of lockup and restriction when operating systems are all about >stopping you from doing things with your computer. Is there a support-structure in place (other than yourself) that are able to help them in a pinch? ("help, I can't get my vodem to work" sort of thing) The best I can hope for at this stage is that they'll make use of FLOSS apps (like FireFox & OpenOffice), even if the OS is not - J From mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com Thu Dec 17 18:02:08 2009 From: mugginsm at under-the-fridge.com (Colin Coghill) Date: Thu Dec 17 18:03:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <878846.30529.qm@web26105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <2c6053f80912161803s25d6932cy5fd7931ddd0886f9@mail.gmail.com> <35D6ABFE-619D-48EB-9FFF-94143014908E@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <72732.49434.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <960358.84526.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2c6053f80912161908t4eb97b83vce6fe64a9c76afac@mail.gmail.com> <218536.1390.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2c6053f80912162021s33b59354p71151c893aec80d8@mail.gmail.com> <878846.30529.qm@web26105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2c6053f80912162102i32b3ac3aw644ed5bb2dfecd32@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > >But they're from an era when computer people liked to share and haven't > >adapted to this age of lockup and restriction when operating systems are > all about > >stopping you from doing things with your computer. > > Is there a support-structure in place (other than yourself) that are able > to help them in a pinch? ("help, I can't get my vodem to work" sort of > thing) > They're probably atypical. My father taught me about hardware and operating systems, and my mother taught me programming. But computers need to serve atypical people too... - Colin From gordonisnz at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 20:22:40 2009 From: gordonisnz at gmail.com (Gordon Stewart) Date: Thu Dec 17 20:23:32 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? Message-ID: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm on Ubuntu - 9.1 I've just had a message tomnight when logging in to Linux Pc (the PC was on, just screen saver password etc) "Disk has many bad sectors - backup & replace disk'. Is there a disk fix utility for Linux ? (the Pc is New - I just got it in June) Ps I've taken a screen-shot - can we send pics in this group ? -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://www.freecycle.org/ From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 17 20:30:07 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 17 20:30:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You won't be able to attach pictures. Best way would be to webhost it (free webhosting thru your ISP, or flickr, or something) and then post a link. However based on what you've said, The Linux took you want for the filesystem is 'fsck' - refer the man page (man fsck) if you need guidance on how to employ it. If fsck is reporting bad sectors, you very likely have an impending disk failure. Strongly recommend you back up your data and look at a replacement disk (once a HD reports bad sectors, it's probably not worth the risk to your data?) If you do want to manually run a surface scan with a view to repairing as much as possible, suggest you boot off a Live CD and use fsck on your hard disk that way.. Mark. On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Gordon Stewart wrote: > Hi, > > I'm on Ubuntu - 9.1 > > I've just had a message tomnight when logging in to Linux Pc (the PC > was on, just screen saver password etc) > > "Disk has many bad sectors - backup & replace disk'. > > Is there a disk fix utility for Linux ? > > (the Pc is New - I just got it in June) > > Ps I've taken a screen-shot - can we send pics in this group ? > > -- > G > Freecycle Auckland :- > http://www.freecycle.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From lilypatch at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 20:49:47 2009 From: lilypatch at gmail.com (David Bowen) Date: Thu Dec 17 20:50:37 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B29E29B.2030105@gmail.com> Gordon Stewart wrote: > Hi, > > I'm on Ubuntu - 9.1 > > I've just had a message tomnight when logging in to Linux Pc (the PC > was on, just screen saver password etc) > > "Disk has many bad sectors - backup & replace disk'. > > Is there a disk fix utility for Linux ? > > (the Pc is New - I just got it in June) > > Ps I've taken a screen-shot - can we send pics in this group ? > > I don't know about Linux ones, but Seagate do a Dos bootable floppy image. Yeah, a nice feature in 9.10, It has detected some dodgy disks before they failed on site. Saves the hassle of a breakdown in the hotels, guests complaining and all that. Under System / Administration / Disk Utility, it give some more information on the health of the drives it reads from Smart data on the drives. During quiet periods the drives will usually go over the logs and try to recover bad sectors they have logged. Running the long test will do the same thing, on Seagate or similar disk utilities. Regards David From gordonisnz at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 21:01:39 2009 From: gordonisnz at gmail.com (Gordon Stewart) Date: Thu Dec 17 21:02:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9a3273a00912170001g1c22c7abh2dc455502a51c620@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > You won't be able to attach pictures. ?Best way would be to webhost it (free > webhosting thru your ISP, or flickr, or something) and then post a link. > > However based on what you've said, > > The Linux took you want for the filesystem is 'fsck' - refer the man page > (man fsck) if you need guidance on how to employ it. Ok, FSCK says cannot (or should not) run on a mounted system.. I've googled & found a few more queries... :- WHAT is a mounted system ? :- HOW do I unmount it ? :- WHAT is "single user mode" I am just 1 person, I do not intend on others using my linux PC - so :- a) How do I go to single user mode b) Is it a good thing to do ? c) will FSCK work in single user mode ? I already have just 1 user - me (excluding root user) -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://www.freecycle.org/ From pieter at insync.za.net Thu Dec 17 21:06:35 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Thu Dec 17 21:07:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00912170001g1c22c7abh2dc455502a51c620@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Gordon, Boot the livecd (from ubuntu - it should have a try ubuntu option) or even better a rescue option. If not, try these steps (after booting the livecd) Open a Terminal sudo /bin/bash to become root ls -la /dev/mapper/* you should see one with root in is, normally, /dev/mapper/-root fsck /dev/mapper/ and wait....while you wait, big out the invoice and get the drive swapped :) Cheers, Pieter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Stewart" To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 21:01 Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > You won't be able to attach pictures. Best way would be to webhost it > (free > webhosting thru your ISP, or flickr, or something) and then post a link. > > However based on what you've said, > > The Linux took you want for the filesystem is 'fsck' - refer the man page > (man fsck) if you need guidance on how to employ it. Ok, FSCK says cannot (or should not) run on a mounted system.. I've googled & found a few more queries... :- WHAT is a mounted system ? :- HOW do I unmount it ? :- WHAT is "single user mode" I am just 1 person, I do not intend on others using my linux PC - so :- a) How do I go to single user mode b) Is it a good thing to do ? c) will FSCK work in single user mode ? I already have just 1 user - me (excluding root user) -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://www.freecycle.org/ _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 17 21:10:42 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 17 21:11:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00912170001g1c22c7abh2dc455502a51c620@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00912170001g1c22c7abh2dc455502a51c620@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Gordon Stewart wrote: > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Mark Foster wrote: >> You won't be able to attach pictures. ?Best way would be to webhost it (free >> webhosting thru your ISP, or flickr, or something) and then post a link. >> >> However based on what you've said, >> >> The Linux took you want for the filesystem is 'fsck' - refer the man page >> (man fsck) if you need guidance on how to employ it. > > Ok, > > FSCK says cannot (or should not) run on a mounted system.. > > I've googled & found a few more queries... > > :- WHAT is a mounted system ? > :- HOW do I unmount it ? > :- WHAT is "single user mode" > > I am just 1 person, I do not intend on others using my linux PC - so :- In linux we operate a graduated series of 'run levels' which describe (in basic terms) the 'level' to which the system is running... ala, is it in essence 'safe mode' - or is it booted fully but with only CLI, or is X (gnome/kde) running. Google for 'run levels' if you're interested, but basically as I recall it 0 - shut down 1 - single user mode. A bit like safe mode. Limited set of drivers are loaded, at this level fundamental system stuff is done. 2 - unused? 3 - full OS, but commandline only. Normal operating mode on a server without a gui loaded. 4 - unused? 5 - full OS including window manager. Normal operating mode on a gui box. it's telling you that it needs you to run fsck without the partition being mounted, and recommending single user mode - I think Ubuntu lets you into single user mode via the 'recovery menu' (i've never done it in ubuntu). Alternatively open a commandline and type 'sudo init 1' Or, do as I suggested earlier, boot off a Live CD. This won't mount ANY of your hard drive based partitions and lets you continue to benefit from having a working gui environment from which you can surf the web, etc. Mark. From gordonisnz at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 21:16:03 2009 From: gordonisnz at gmail.com (Gordon Stewart) Date: Thu Dec 17 21:16:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00912170001g1c22c7abh2dc455502a51c620@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9a3273a00912170016gfdce49do372d5f07d8afc86e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > it's telling you that it needs you to run fsck without the partition being > mounted, and recommending single user mode - I think Ubuntu lets you into > single user mode via the 'recovery menu' (i've never done it in ubuntu). > > Alternatively open a commandline and type 'sudo init 1' > > Or, do as I suggested earlier, boot off a Live CD. This won't mount ANY of > your hard drive based partitions and lets you continue to benefit from > having a working gui environment from which you can surf the web, etc. thanks... after i shift house, I'll save up & get a 2nd hard-disk to backup my information etc... I'll hunt for my Live Cd - if i still have it (though its on a previous version...) -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://www.freecycle.org/ From pieter at insync.za.net Thu Dec 17 21:18:45 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Thu Dec 17 21:19:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00912170001g1c22c7abh2dc455502a51c620@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00912170016gfdce49do372d5f07d8afc86e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Forgot one little command - vgchange -a y after you open the terminal :) Cheers, Pieter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Stewart" To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 21:16 Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > > >> it's telling you that it needs you to run fsck without the partition >> being >> mounted, and recommending single user mode - I think Ubuntu lets you into >> single user mode via the 'recovery menu' (i've never done it in ubuntu). >> >> Alternatively open a commandline and type 'sudo init 1' >> >> Or, do as I suggested earlier, boot off a Live CD. This won't mount ANY >> of >> your hard drive based partitions and lets you continue to benefit from >> having a working gui environment from which you can surf the web, etc. > > thanks... > > after i shift house, I'll save up & get a 2nd hard-disk to backup my > information etc... > > I'll hunt for my Live Cd - if i still have it > (though its on a previous version...) > > -- > G > Freecycle Auckland :- > http://www.freecycle.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 17 21:21:33 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 17 21:22:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00912170016gfdce49do372d5f07d8afc86e@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00912170001g1c22c7abh2dc455502a51c620@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00912170016gfdce49do372d5f07d8afc86e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Dec 2009, Gordon Stewart wrote: > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > > >> it's telling you that it needs you to run fsck without the partition being >> mounted, and recommending single user mode - I think Ubuntu lets you into >> single user mode via the 'recovery menu' (i've never done it in ubuntu). >> >> Alternatively open a commandline and type 'sudo init 1' >> >> Or, do as I suggested earlier, boot off a Live CD. This won't mount ANY of >> your hard drive based partitions and lets you continue to benefit from >> having a working gui environment from which you can surf the web, etc. > > thanks... > > after i shift house, I'll save up & get a 2nd hard-disk to backup my > information etc... > > I'll hunt for my Live Cd - if i still have it > (though its on a previous version...) I believe that'll be fine, as long as both versions can talk to the same filesystem format. Should note, the livecd may try to mount partitions on your system (they'll appear as shortcuts on the livecd desktop). If it does this, right click and select 'unmount'. You will need to note the path to the partition giving you grief (/dev/sdax or similar) so you know which partition to tell fsck to look at. Good luck. Hard disk problems are the bane of my existance (and the reason I went and spent lots of bucks on backup disks a while back... :o ) Mark. From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 17 22:10:02 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 17 22:10:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Protection against viruses, spyware and adware Message-ID: <4B2AAC3A.8957.8302D1@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I am planning to change from Windows to linux as a host for virtual machines on a desktop computer. What protection against Windows viruses, spyware and adware is provided by running Windows virtual machines on a linux host? Should I run the same anti-virus, anti-spyware and anti-adware software in the Windows virtual machines that I would run in "native" (non-VM) Windows installations? I understand that I don't need to worry about viruses, spyware and adware in linux. Does anyone have a contrary opinion? Don Johnston From subscribed at gnuzealand.com Thu Dec 17 22:37:49 2009 From: subscribed at gnuzealand.com (Bruce Clement) Date: Thu Dec 17 22:38:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <4B2AAC3A.8957.8302D1@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B2AAC3A.8957.8302D1@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <9da4db1f0912170137id7ef751t43dd63520a334b9c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Don, >From an application viewpoint Windows will still be Windows & that Linux hosting its virtual environment is irrelevant so you will still need to apply all security fixes &c. Of course the same applies to Linux so you will need to apply all security fixes for the Linux environment as well. I'm not sure how the internet connection works in this environment, but you may be able to gain an advantage by using Linux (either the host or another virtual machine) as the default gateway for your internet and gain some advantage from the Linux firewall ... if that's possible treat it as a bonus & continue applying all available security patches for both operating systems. Bruce 2009/12/17 Don Johnston > I am planning to change from Windows to linux as a host for virtual > machines on a desktop computer. > > What protection against Windows viruses, spyware and adware is > provided by running Windows virtual machines on a linux host? Should > I run the same anti-virus, anti-spyware and anti-adware software in > the Windows virtual machines that I would run in "native" (non-VM) > Windows installations? > > I understand that I don't need to worry about viruses, spyware and > adware in linux. Does anyone have a contrary opinion? > > Don Johnston > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Bruce Clement When a co-worker said he didn't want his kids getting the H1N1 vaccine because it was too new and "they haven't tested it enough", I blurted out something like, "So you'd rather test a new and poorly understood virus on them instead?" I'm not entirely proud of fighting vague and irrational fear of the unknown by invoking vague and irrational fear of the unknown, but I think it did make an impression. Petr?a Mitchell From gregwiggill at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 22:44:38 2009 From: gregwiggill at gmail.com (Greg Wiggill) Date: Thu Dec 17 22:45:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu-Moblin on Netbook Message-ID: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am running Easy Peasy on my Asus 701(4G +512RAM) . Looking to try something different. Is anyone using Moblin or Ubuntu -Moblin ( http://linux.dell.com/files/ubuntu/moblin-remix/dev-edition-2.0/) ? If so any comments on if it's any good or any issues? Greg From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Thu Dec 17 23:59:23 2009 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Josh Martens) Date: Fri Dec 18 00:00:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] FLOSS... Don't Forget the 'L' at blog.ghodmode.com In-Reply-To: <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B2875EE.6000606@ghodmode.com> <620499.31238.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1261047563.9907.120.camel@studypad> On Wed, 2009-12-16 at 19:15 +0000, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > I find the the acronym "FLOSS" easier to convey than "FOSS". > I try to avoid the "free" connotation; think it causes more problems than it's worth (i.e. implied worth = 0) > > > I respect RMS for his contributions, but I'm no fan; I'm no fan of any fundamentalist/militant/extremist. > It's either their way, or no way, and there's no gray area or space to take new ideas on-board, or change their way of thinking to keep pace with a changing world. > > - J > > It's annoying when someone who has thought out their position on any issue, and is steadfast on the issue, is called a fundamentalist/militant or extremist. Not all issues are so unclear that it's worth doubting. For example, female circumcision, I'm completely against it and not at all willing to budge on the issue, and I'd have some choice words for anyone that tries to make excuses for it or even advocate it. I think that most of us will agree that the basic moral axioms that Stallman has derived his position from are reasonable. The conclusions that he has come to though are perhaps hard for many people to live by, even if many of us think it'd be ideal. He's perhaps not the best spokesman around, but ohwell. I've been called a militant and intolerant atheist, but I have thought out my position. The problem is not so much absolute certainty in ones ideas, but rather an aversion to doubt in cases where a good helping of doubt is called for, such as in religion, economics, many ideologies, etc. > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From thetoolman at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 09:30:26 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Fri Dec 18 09:30:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Replacement of linux dual bootable with Windows In-Reply-To: <4B2AA60B.8021.6ADCEF@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <200912162302.nBGN2MDh003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B2AA60B.8021.6ADCEF@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: I'd recommend creating a fresh windows VM install, then migrating all your windows data to the VM version. you can then move the VM image somewhere while you change your host operating system, and any OS can run your windows VM. DONT FORGET TO DO BACKUPS FIRST. I once heard that Jesus saves; thats one lesson of his I agree with :P On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Don Johnston wrote: > Hi Tim > > What I was talking about was how to replace a linux installation with > a later version when the original linux installation was dual > bootable with Windows. If replacing Linux Mint 8 with Linux Mint 9 > LTS can be done reliably as an upgrade, as Nevyn suggested, then > there isn't a problem. > > However, I was also hoping to attempt to create a Windows VM from a > ghosted image of a physical windows installation. Thank you for > confirming my fear that that isn't possible. You have saved me some > work. That fear was a major reason for my plan to install linux dual > bootable with Windows before changing to use linux as a host. That > way, I can still use Windows while I am installing software in a > Windows VM on the linux host, thereby minimising disruption. I use a > large amount of software and, consequently, it usually takes weeks > for me to set up a Windows machine. However, once I have done so, I > might abandon Windows on my desktop computer except in VMs. Then host > replacement will not be such a major issue. > > Regards > Don Johnston > > > You wont be able to move a physical (nonVM) windows install into a VM, if > > thats what you are attempting. As talked about already, the VM is seen > as > > different hardware to your actual stuff. > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Don Johnston >wrote: > > > > > On my desktop computer, I have virtual machines running on a Windows > > > XP Professional host. There is an extended Windows partition with > > > three logical drives. > > > > > > I want to change, progressively, to using a Linux Mint host. As a > > > first step, I intend to install Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable > > > with Windows. I then intend to install VMware Server in Mint and run > > > the virtual machines (which are in Windows drives) from the Mint > > > Host. When Linux Mint 9 LTS becomes available, I am thinking of > > > changing to that as the host. > > > > > > I am wondering if the following approach would work for changing from > > > Mint 8 to Mint 9 LTS as the host: > > > 1. Take a Ghost image of the Windows "C" drive. > > > 2. Remove the linux partitions. > > > 3. Reinstall Windows in the "C" drive. > > > 4. Recover the "C" drive from the Ghost image. > > > 5. Install Mint 9 LTS dual bootable with Windows. > > > 6. Install VMware Server in Mint 9 LTS. > > > > > > Would this work? If not then what would? > > > > > > Don Johnston > > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 48 1275 - my old-new number! From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 18 09:47:43 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Dec 18 09:48:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <4B2AAC3A.8957.8302D1@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B2AAC3A.8957.8302D1@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <991282.52049.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >I understand that I don't need to worry about viruses, spyware and >adware in linux. Does anyone have a contrary opinion? Yes & No. You may be less susceptible to & unaffected by virii on a POSIX box than on a windows box, but you can still be a carrier (as I've found out). But things may (& likely will) change as the adoption of GNU/Linux grows in enterprise & desktops. There are even a few FLOSS rootkits available out there; isn't that just wonderful? You are still susceptible to malicious code (i.e rootkits & the like), just like any other system, and it's still a good idea to install an AV (clam will doe fine) & take care The vector of attack has changed from attacking the actual OS, to the application (higher up the OSI stack). In particular the browser. You still shouldn't do silly things like opening arbitrary attachments sent to you via mail from untrusted sources, or simply downloading & installing random code from the net (yes, even sourceforge) The only way that you can be a 100% sure that the system is safe, is installing it from scratch on fresh hardware from a MD5-checked disk, and then never to attach it to any network or insert any media. Obviously this is unrealistic, & defeats the purpose Presently, on a GNU/Linux box, what you do need to look out for, is browser-based attacks (wel there are a few other thing you need to look out for, but I don't want to bore or scare you too much right now). Stuff like XSS, CSRF, click-jacking & the like. HTTPS is your friend At the very least, you should run FireFox & the very first thing you do once you've fired it up for the first time is install NoScript. NoScript, NoScript, NoScript and again NoScript Another obvious thing to do, is to make use of a firewall. Both on your router, and on your PC. Ubuntu has a few really nice & simple GUI's, including FireStarter & Gufw (which is a GUI for ufw which comes pre-installed on the system). Basic rule of thumb is to allow traffic out, but nothing in Cheers - J From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 18 09:57:38 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Dec 18 09:58:08 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu-Moblin on Netbook In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <989420.39331.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Moblin is great, but I would not recommended it on the 701; it's simply too puny. Moblin requires (last lime I checked) an Atom processor or better, so it' OK on the 901 series & up There is a version out there that's been hacked to work on the 701, but it's too frustrating to be of any use - J From zaf at nrc.co.nz Fri Dec 18 10:33:43 2009 From: zaf at nrc.co.nz (Nick 'Zaf' Clifford) Date: Fri Dec 18 10:34:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B2AA3B7.2090508@nrc.co.nz> In my not so humble opinion, stop everything you are doing, take your computer to a computer repair place, preferably one that understands Linux, and get a complete backup done, now! To get a full clone done, it should cost around $100 for a hard disk drive, and probably another $30 to $60 to get the backup done, assuming the disk isn't too far gone. If you only have a minimal personal data on the system, you could get away with getting that backed up to DVD/etc, which should cost at most $60. When your hard disk is showing signs of dying, you should IMMEDIATELY get a backup. For reference, if you came to me with a now dead hard disk, I'd recommend a data recovery place that will charge somewhere between $500 and $2000 to recover the data, so its much cheaper to backup your hard disk NOW. The only exception to the above advice would be if the system didn't have anything you cared about, or only had minimal personal data, in which case just get the personal data backed up. Nick Gordon Stewart wrote: > Hi, > > I'm on Ubuntu - 9.1 > > I've just had a message tomnight when logging in to Linux Pc (the PC > was on, just screen saver password etc) > > "Disk has many bad sectors - backup & replace disk'. > > Is there a disk fix utility for Linux ? > > (the Pc is New - I just got it in June) > > Ps I've taken a screen-shot - can we send pics in this group ? > > -- Nick "Zaf" Clifford http://zaf.geek.nz/ From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 10:43:35 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 18 10:44:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <4B2AAC3A.8957.8302D1@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B2AAC3A.8957.8302D1@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Don Johnston wrote: > I am planning to change from Windows to linux as a host for virtual > machines on a desktop computer. > > What protection against Windows viruses, spyware and adware is > provided by running Windows virtual machines on a linux host? Should > I run the same anti-virus, anti-spyware and anti-adware software in > the Windows virtual machines that I would run in "native" (non-VM) > Windows installations? > > I understand that I don't need to worry about viruses, spyware and > adware in linux. Does anyone have a contrary opinion? > > Don Johnston Hi Don, Windows is still windows but you could potentially avoid the problem by restoring to a snapshot every time you use the VM. So basically take it to the same state every time you use it. Still won't be perfect but possibly better than the overheads of virus scanners and the like. As for not having to worry about virues etc. in Linux? It's worthwhile to have a virus scanner. Adware and spyware - This is kind of one of those things that are made better with libre definition of Free. Because anyone can see the source code and alter it and release it, anything that did have spyware or adware would soon have a clean version. Of course, if you start looking at freeware, there's nothing to stop someone from including crap like that.... Like Jaco was saying, there are rootkits to be weary of as well although I'd hazard a guess and say anyone wanting to hack a system are more likely to go after something that's going to be online all of the time. Still, it pays to be vigilant. Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 10:50:23 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Dec 18 10:50:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Too Many bad sectors ? In-Reply-To: <4B2AA3B7.2090508@nrc.co.nz> References: <9a3273a00912162322x3c2ddef5pd498084b4992a003@mail.gmail.com> <4B2AA3B7.2090508@nrc.co.nz> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Nick 'Zaf' Clifford wrote: > In my not so humble opinion, stop everything you are doing, take your > computer to a computer repair place, preferably one that understands Linux, > and get a complete backup done, now! > > To get a full clone done, it should cost around $100 for a hard disk drive, > and probably another $30 to $60 to get the backup done, assuming the disk > isn't too far gone. > > If you only have a minimal personal data on the system, you could get away > with getting that backed up to DVD/etc, which should cost at most $60. > > When your hard disk is showing signs of dying, you should IMMEDIATELY get a > backup. > > For reference, if you came to me with a now dead hard disk, I'd recommend a > data recovery place that will charge somewhere between $500 and $2000 to > recover the data, so its much cheaper to backup your hard disk NOW. > > The only exception to the above advice would be if the system didn't have > anything you cared about, or only had minimal personal data, in which case > just get the personal data backed up. > > Nick I've got to go with Nick here. If your hard drive is showing enough bad sectors for it to start being an issue, don't use fsck unless you've got a backup. Here's the clincher:- If the hard disk is failing, then excessive use will make it fail quicker. To scan everything requires quite a bit of hard drive activity - this is part of why you shouldn't recommend excessive hard drive defrags to Windows users. On the plus side, hard disks are relatively cheap - just over $100 for a 1TB if you want to go that big with some great options like the "green" hard disks which use less power and are quieter (but just a little slower I think) than your average option. Regards, Nevyn. From gregwiggill at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 19:33:12 2009 From: gregwiggill at gmail.com (Greg Wiggill) Date: Fri Dec 18 19:34:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu-Moblin on Netbook In-Reply-To: <989420.39331.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> <989420.39331.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> Jaco, what would you recommend? or have tried om the 701 that is worthwhile? on the subject of the 701, what would you recommend on partitioning if you have a 4GiG SDcard ontop of the 4GiG SSD? I see alot of talk on the swap partition on the SSD. G On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Moblin is great, but I would not recommended it on the 701; it's simply too > puny. > > Moblin requires (last lime I checked) an Atom processor or better, so it' > OK on the 901 series & up > There is a version out there that's been hacked to work on the 701, but > it's too frustrating to be of any use > > > - J > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From rob at webworxshop.com Fri Dec 18 20:08:37 2009 From: rob at webworxshop.com (Robert Connolly) Date: Fri Dec 18 21:29:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu-Moblin on Netbook In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> <989420.39331.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1261120117.3089.6.camel@gandalf> On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:33 +1300, Greg Wiggill wrote: > Jaco, > > what would you recommend? or have tried om the 701 that is worthwhile? > While I'm thinking about it Crunchbang Linux (http://crunchbanglinux.org) would be a good option here, it's much more lightweight than a standard Ubuntu desktop. Be aware that lightweight means less features and therefore it's more suited to someone with a bit of previous Linux experience. Having said that it's not that difficult to get used to and the keyboard shortcuts are awesome. Rob From rob at webworxshop.com Fri Dec 18 20:04:14 2009 From: rob at webworxshop.com (Robert Connolly) Date: Fri Dec 18 21:29:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu-Moblin on Netbook In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> <989420.39331.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1261119854.3089.2.camel@gandalf> On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:33 +1300, Greg Wiggill wrote: > on the subject of the 701, what would you recommend on partitioning if you > have a 4GiG SDcard ontop of the 4GiG SSD? > I see alot of talk on the swap partition on the SSD. > Hi Greg, I would personally partition the internal SSD as the root (/) partition with the SDCard mounted as /home and not bother with the swap. How much RAM does the machine in question have? Cheers, Rob Connolly From gregwiggill at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 21:40:18 2009 From: gregwiggill at gmail.com (Greg Wiggill) Date: Fri Dec 18 21:40:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu-Moblin on Netbook In-Reply-To: <1261119854.3089.2.camel@gandalf> References: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> <989420.39331.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> <1261119854.3089.2.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <62e39cea0912180040o41ddf005sa2e240c57ade10d@mail.gmail.com> 512 RAM Crunchbang is great . I have it on a old laptop. Greg On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Robert Connolly wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 19:33 +1300, Greg Wiggill wrote: > > on the subject of the 701, what would you recommend on partitioning if > you > > have a 4GiG SDcard ontop of the 4GiG SSD? > > I see alot of talk on the swap partition on the SSD. > > > > Hi Greg, > > I would personally partition the internal SSD as the root (/) partition > with the SDCard mounted as /home and not bother with the swap. > > How much RAM does the machine in question have? > > Cheers, > > Rob Connolly > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Fri Dec 18 22:23:51 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Fri Dec 18 22:24:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> Message-ID: <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> > >I understand that I don't need to worry about viruses, spyware and > > >adware in linux. Does anyone have a contrary opinion? > > Yes & No. You may be less susceptible to & unaffected by virii on a POSIX box than on a windows box, but you can still be a carrier (as I've found out). > But things may (& likely will) change as the adoption of GNU/Linux grows in enterprise & desktops. There are even a few FLOSS rootkits available out there; isn't that just wonderful? > You are still susceptible to malicious code (i.e rootkits & the like), just like any other system, and it's still a good idea to install an AV (clam will doe fine) & take care > > The vector of attack has changed from attacking the actual OS, to the application (higher up the OSI stack). In particular the browser. > You still shouldn't do silly things like opening arbitrary attachments sent to you via mail from untrusted sources, or simply downloading & installing random code from the net (yes, even sourceforge) > > The only way that you can be a 100% sure that the system is safe, is installing it from scratch on fresh hardware from a MD5-checked disk, and then never to attach it to any network or insert any media. Obviously this is unrealistic, & defeats the purpose > > Presently, on a GNU/Linux box, what you do need to look out for, is browser-based attacks (wel there are a few other thing you need to look out for, but I don't want to bore or scare you too much right now). Stuff like XSS, CSRF, click-jacking & the like. HTTPS is your friend > At the very least, you should run FireFox & the very first thing you do once you've fired it up for the first time is install NoScript. NoScript, NoScript, NoScript and again NoScript > > Another obvious thing to do, is to make use of a firewall. Both on your router, and on your PC. Ubuntu has a few really nice & simple GUI's, including FireStarter & Gufw (which is a GUI for ufw which comes pre-installed on the system). Basic rule of thumb is to allow traffic out, but nothing in > > Cheers > > - J Thanks for the informative scary post Jaco. I am in the process of installing NoScript in all of my currently used machines (virtual and otherwise). With regard to ClamAV, I see that it is intended, primarily, for email scanning. Should I install it, or other anti-virus software, on linux machines (virtual and host) which are not used for email? Don Johnston From blakjak at blakjak.net Sat Dec 19 09:58:49 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Sat Dec 19 09:59:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: > I am in the process of installing NoScript in all of my currently > used machines (virtual and otherwise). NoScript is an excellent plugin for Firefox - when used correctly. It relies on people not arbitrarily granting permission to places (in order to restore functionality) and accidentally defeating the purpose. > > With regard to ClamAV, I see that it is intended, primarily, for > email scanning. Should I install it, or other anti-virus software, on > linux machines (virtual and host) which are not used for email? > You need to think about what you're protecting: - Windows VM's are just Windows machines and require the protection you should afford to Windows machines. - Linux machines are generally not as vulnerable, so resident AV may deliver little or no value at all. However if traffic enroute to the Windows machines is passing across a Linux box, you can better protect Windows if you use Antivirus infront. However It's not doing stateful inspection or anything like that, so basically, if it's not a mail server, it probably won't deliver much value. ClamAV may well find viruses on machines that you do process email on, but if it's a linux box, 99% of the viruses you see won't actually work on, or affect, Linux in the first place. The same applies for web downloads and such; so few viruses seem to target linux machines that the risk is fairly minimal. The risk to Linux machines is usually in the 'sploits world - daemons which are vulnerable and open you to web attack / hacking in the more deliberate sense. Mark. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Sat Dec 19 10:15:20 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Sat Dec 19 10:15:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Ubuntu-Moblin on Netbook In-Reply-To: <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> References: <62e39cea0912170144r32127a62k46e148ca814ccec1@mail.gmail.com> <989420.39331.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <62e39cea0912172233n367f05eoc11c300c55d0ec46@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <698277.41215.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hey Greg, Not too sure; the choice of OS & partitioning scheme is a pretty personal thing. For me, it's what's most expedient. I'm very abusive with my machines & like to try out new things, so I run a lot of OS's from different SD cards. What's on the host disk changes from week to week. If you're in for the long haul, then I would recommend some OS optimized fr the eee (Ubuntu Retboot Remix or eeeBuntu or whatever; there's even a OpenGEU derivative if you're into eye-candy & have loads of memory to burn & don't care for performance), installing the OS on the host disk & hosting your /home partition on the SD card. That way you can keep it safe if you need to do something drastic to the system & makes backup a snap. Re the swap: disable swap ASAP. Flash media do not handle repetitive writes, and it actually wears out the media. You can easily do this with `swapoff` & commenting out the swap mount in your /etc/fstab Hope this helps - J From daniel at rimspace.net Sun Dec 20 00:46:30 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Sun Dec 20 00:47:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: (Mark Foster's message of "Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:58:49 +1300 (NZDT)") References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net> Mark Foster writes: >> I am in the process of installing NoScript in all of my currently >> used machines (virtual and otherwise). > > NoScript is an excellent plugin for Firefox - when used correctly. It relies > on people not arbitrarily granting permission to places (in order to restore > functionality) and accidentally defeating the purpose. It probably also doesn't really protect you much in the long run; once it becomes popular, attackers will adapt and the security value will drop. For the moment, though, if you understand the risks of allowing the actions on every site, and can verify that the JavaScript really is well behaved and not, say, injected by an attacker with full control over the origination site... it should help a bit, against threats that involve JavaScript. >> With regard to ClamAV, I see that it is intended, primarily, for >> email scanning. Should I install it, or other anti-virus software, on >> linux machines (virtual and host) which are not used for email? > > You need to think about what you're protecting: > > - Windows VM's are just Windows machines and require the protection you should > afford to Windows machines. > > - Linux machines are generally not as vulnerable, so resident AV may deliver > little or no value at all. There isn't actually much option for "scan-on-open" antivirus on Linux, unlike Windows, because this hasn't really been a priority for developers in the past. [...] > The same applies for web downloads and such; so few viruses seem to target > linux machines that the risk is fairly minimal. For some values of virus[1], and any value of "web downloads", this is no longer true, as the relatively[2] recent attacks on various Linux things, including package distribution servers of binary-only distributions, artwork and binary distribution sites, upstream software repositories, and other avenues into Linux systems.[3] Also of note, the ongoing attacks on weak passwords via SSH[4], on common vulnerabilities in PHP and other web software, and so forth. > The risk to Linux machines is usually in the 'sploits world - daemons which > are vulnerable and open you to web attack / hacking in the more deliberate > sense. ...not any more. Linux doesn't have the same exposure to these attacks, yet, outside the web, but it is getting there. I argue that this represents, predominantly, the low popularity of Linux as a desktop OS.[5] So, while that was more true in the past, I don't think it is any longer the case, and that more attention to security is required now than it ever was before. Regards, Daniel Of course, if history teaches anything it is that "more attention to security" is, without question, not the answer here, and that something else must be. Sadly, we don't quite know what that is, yet.[6] Footnotes: [1] I would argue "for practical values of", but others may disagree; certainly, "for viruses and other network focused, hostile, self-replicating threats" should pass common muster. [2] As in, more common in the last few years, but the history does stretch all the way back to the turn of the century, really. [3] In a number of cases these are either social engineering attacks to get the virus-like software onto the machine, or an effort to attack an existing package and compromise it to do the same, rather than directly the virus. [4] ...and, no doubt, some time soon attackers will work out that other protocols like IMAP and SMTP are (more) vulnerable to brute-force attacks, especially run from distributed networks of semi-autonomous, self-replicating software. [5] The *success* of those attacks will be somewhat limited by the greater security that Linux offers, out of the box, compared to Windows. OTOH, I very much doubt that will last long, given that some popular distributions make the first user, in effect, a system administrator, who if compromised grants the same root-level control that Windows does. [6] Experiments like the Chromium/Chrome security model in the browser, SELinux, the Toyoko LSM, the Android sandbox / permissions model, and so forth are working on this, but none is a clear or compelling answer yet. -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From blakjak at blakjak.net Sun Dec 20 08:12:33 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Sun Dec 20 08:13:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, Daniel Pittman wrote: > Mark Foster writes: >>> I am in the process of installing NoScript in all of my currently >>> used machines (virtual and otherwise). >> >> NoScript is an excellent plugin for Firefox - when used correctly. It relies >> on people not arbitrarily granting permission to places (in order to restore >> functionality) and accidentally defeating the purpose. > > It probably also doesn't really protect you much in the long run; once it > becomes popular, attackers will adapt and the security value will drop. I find this perspective interesting, as i'm not sure how you 'adapt' to 'active content on/off'. > For the moment, though, if you understand the risks of allowing the actions on > every site, and can verify that the JavaScript really is well behaved and not, > say, injected by an attacker with full control over the origination site... it > should help a bit, against threats that involve JavaScript. In particular XSS and it's ilk; if something's being called from a domain you don't have in your trusted list, it wont work. >> The same applies for web downloads and such; so few viruses seem to target >> linux machines that the risk is fairly minimal. > > For some values of virus[1], and any value of "web downloads", this is no > longer true, as the relatively[2] recent attacks on various Linux things, > including package distribution servers of binary-only distributions, artwork > and binary distribution sites, upstream software repositories, and other > avenues into Linux systems.[3] Concur with you and your footnote, but I don't really see them as viruses in the classical sense. And the value of AV in that space is questionable, IMHO. > > Also of note, the ongoing attacks on weak passwords via SSH[4], on common > vulnerabilities in PHP and other web software, and so forth. This is what I looked at as more of a 'sploit than a virus issue. > So, while that was more true in the past, I don't think it is any longer the > case, and that more attention to security is required now than it ever was > before. The key is, and with ref to your footnote: > [5] The *success* of those attacks will be somewhat limited by the greater > security that Linux offers, out of the box, compared to Windows. OTOH, > I very much doubt that will last long, given that some popular > distributions make the first user, in effect, a system administrator, > who if compromised grants the same root-level control that Windows does. ... people need to continue thinking. Every time I get asked to enter my root password (to sudo run something in Ubuntu) I start thinking about where the app was called, how, why it might need to escalate priv's... Vista's model of prompting to validate priviledge escalation is all well and good, but people will blindly say 'yes' without understanding the ramifications. Linux is heading down the same path, sadly. Cheers for provoking some thought Daniel. Mark. From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Sun Dec 20 11:11:28 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Sun Dec 20 11:12:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Recovery with dual boot Message-ID: <4B2E0660.9560.B1AC6F@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I want to install Linux Mint dual bootable with Windows. I intend to store the data in FAT32 and NTFS logical drives in the Windows extended partitions on the same computer and another computer in the LAN. However, Windows has a bad habit of crashing and I have lost count of the number of times I have had to reinstall it (Hence my interest in linux!). Consequently, I have to be prepared for a quick and full recovery. I store almost all of the data, virtual machines and a ghost image of the "C" drive in logical drives in a Windows extended partition. As a result, when Windows crashes, I just need to reinstall Windows and then recover the "C" drive without having to worry about recovering data and application software. I am wondering what changes I will need to to make to this procedure when I install Mint dual bootable with Windows. Does reinstallation of Windows result in complete replacement of Grub? I so, then am I correct in assuming that the only change to the above procedure which is required is to delete the linux partitions and reinstall linux after reinstalling Windows? Will it still be possible to create and recover Ghost images of the "C" drive? Don Johnston From daniel at rimspace.net Sun Dec 20 16:38:03 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Sun Dec 20 16:38:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: (Mark Foster's message of "Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:12:33 +1300 (NZDT)") References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <87skb6l3hg.fsf@rimspace.net> Mark Foster writes: > On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, Daniel Pittman wrote: >> Mark Foster writes: > >>>> I am in the process of installing NoScript in all of my currently >>>> used machines (virtual and otherwise). >>> >>> NoScript is an excellent plugin for Firefox - when used correctly. It relies >>> on people not arbitrarily granting permission to places (in order to restore >>> functionality) and accidentally defeating the purpose. >> >> It probably also doesn't really protect you much in the long run; once it >> becomes popular, attackers will adapt and the security value will drop. > > I find this perspective interesting, as i'm not sure how you 'adapt' to > active content on/off'. Well, the obvious route is convincing the user that they want to enable content on the site and all; this has a long history of working well.[1] This is especially true when the security is dependent on the end user being able to identify what is and isn't safe ? even on a default deny basis, which really doesn't work. Most people[2]don't do this well. (IIRC, the last test of comp sci professionals in the security field found about a five to ten percent failure rate when they were asked to identify things like phishing sites, so even experts are not perfect.) Otherwise, the attackers find ways around this that still function. They can convince the user to click through somewhere else, or use browser features that bypass it, or attack other infrastructure in combination, or fool the user into thinking they are allowing something safe... Microsoft tried this, ages back: do you recall their "security zones" infrastructure from the IE line? That was all about managing security in this fashion, and it didn't solve their problems. So, your best case with NoScript is that sufficiently skilled and attentive people get a pretty good hit-rate in identifying, and avoiding, the easy things like XSS attacks, and a passable rate for more focused attacks. >> For the moment, though, if you understand the risks of allowing the actions on >> every site, and can verify that the JavaScript really is well behaved and not, >> say, injected by an attacker with full control over the origination site... it >> should help a bit, against threats that involve JavaScript. > > In particular XSS and it's ilk; if something's being called from a domain you > don't have in your trusted list, it wont work. Oh, I don't particularly mean XSS. I mean attacks that inject hostile code into the site itself, no third party domain required. At that point there is just the "trusted" domain involved. >>> The same applies for web downloads and such; so few viruses seem to target >>> linux machines that the risk is fairly minimal. >> >> For some values of virus[1], and any value of "web downloads", this is no >> longer true, as the relatively[2] recent attacks on various Linux things, >> including package distribution servers of binary-only distributions, artwork >> and binary distribution sites, upstream software repositories, and other >> avenues into Linux systems.[3] > > Concur with you and your footnote, but I don't really see them as viruses in > the classical sense. And the value of AV in that space is questionable, > IMHO. These days I don't see a lot of value in the distinction, because the difference between them has fallen apart so much. ...but, yeah, agree otherwise. :) [...] >> [5] The *success* of those attacks will be somewhat limited by the greater >> security that Linux offers, out of the box, compared to Windows. OTOH, >> I very much doubt that will last long, given that some popular >> distributions make the first user, in effect, a system administrator, >> who if compromised grants the same root-level control that Windows does. > > ... people need to continue thinking. Every time I get asked to enter my > root password (to sudo run something in Ubuntu) I start thinking about where > the app was called, how, why it might need to escalate priv's... ...and how do you verify that there isn't anything in the background in the background waiting to abuse that open privilege gate automatically? > Vista's model of prompting to validate priviledge escalation is all well and > good, but people will blindly say 'yes' without understanding the > ramifications. Linux is heading down the same path, sadly. One of the conclusions out of the security community is that, in essence, you /can't/ succeed in protecting people with this path. You can get good results, but not perfect, and attackers can adapt to it all... > Cheers for provoking some thought Daniel. I like talking about this sort of stuff: it is a big influence on the future directions of my job, at least, and also one of the more interesting areas of computers. (Well, in part of people too, I guess, but... :) Daniel Footnotes: [1] See the "Nigerian" scam. [2] Probably not anyone here, notably; having an active interest in non-standard technology is likely to have a reasonable correlation to understanding it, and that to being relatively able to judge safety. -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From talsemgeest at gmail.com Sun Dec 20 20:00:17 2009 From: talsemgeest at gmail.com (Tommy Alsemgeest) Date: Sun Dec 20 20:00:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Recovery with dual boot In-Reply-To: <4B2E0660.9560.B1AC6F@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B2E0660.9560.B1AC6F@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <6c4a2bfd0912192300n3fc46d59v4f75ba45c0a7dcd3@mail.gmail.com> After reinstalling windows, you can reinstall the grub without having to reinstall Mint. This guide, even though it was written for ubuntu, should work for Mint as well. Cheers, Tommy. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > I want to install Linux Mint dual bootable with Windows. I intend to > store the data in FAT32 and NTFS logical drives in the Windows > extended partitions on the same computer and another computer in the > LAN. > > However, Windows has a bad habit of crashing and I have lost count of > the number of times I have had to reinstall it (Hence my interest in > linux!). Consequently, I have to be prepared for a quick and full > recovery. > > I store almost all of the data, virtual machines and a ghost image of > the "C" drive in logical drives in a Windows extended partition. As a > result, when Windows crashes, I just need to reinstall Windows and > then recover the "C" drive without having to worry about recovering > data and application software. > > I am wondering what changes I will need to to make to this procedure > when I install Mint dual bootable with Windows. Does reinstallation > of Windows result in complete replacement of Grub? I so, then am I > correct in assuming that the only change to the above procedure which > is required is to delete the linux partitions and reinstall linux > after reinstalling Windows? Will it still be possible to create and > recover Ghost images of the "C" drive? > > Don Johnston > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Sun Dec 20 20:42:20 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Sun Dec 20 20:42:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Recovery with dual boot In-Reply-To: <6c4a2bfd0912192300n3fc46d59v4f75ba45c0a7dcd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B2E0660.9560.B1AC6F@admin.ncearevision.co.nz>, <6c4a2bfd0912192300n3fc46d59v4f75ba45c0a7dcd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B2E8C2C.20753.2315C0@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> The guide mentioned by Tommy seems reasonably straightforward for Ubuntu 9.10 which is what my version of Mint is based on. An even simpler approach occurred to me and that is to simply recover the "C" drive from a Ghosted image. Then Grub wouldn't be affected. Don Johnston > After reinstalling windows, you can reinstall the grub without having to > reinstall Mint. This guide, > even though it was written for ubuntu, should work for Mint as well. > > Cheers, > > Tommy. > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > > > I want to install Linux Mint dual bootable with Windows. I intend to > > store the data in FAT32 and NTFS logical drives in the Windows > > extended partitions on the same computer and another computer in the > > LAN. > > > > However, Windows has a bad habit of crashing and I have lost count of > > the number of times I have had to reinstall it (Hence my interest in > > linux!). Consequently, I have to be prepared for a quick and full > > recovery. > > > > I store almost all of the data, virtual machines and a ghost image of > > the "C" drive in logical drives in a Windows extended partition. As a > > result, when Windows crashes, I just need to reinstall Windows and > > then recover the "C" drive without having to worry about recovering > > data and application software. > > > > I am wondering what changes I will need to to make to this procedure > > when I install Mint dual bootable with Windows. Does reinstallation > > of Windows result in complete replacement of Grub? I so, then am I > > correct in assuming that the only change to the above procedure which > > is required is to delete the linux partitions and reinstall linux > > after reinstalling Windows? Will it still be possible to create and > > recover Ghost images of the "C" drive? > > > > Don Johnston From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 21 09:52:11 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 21 09:52:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <190556.22827.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >It probably also doesn't really protect you much in the long run; once it >becomes popular, attackers will adapt and the security value will drop. There have been adaptations to mal-code to account for NS in the past; NS have frequent updates to account for this, a it the case in any of these arms races. Moral of the story: at least take rudimentary security steps, such as installing an AV & NS, keep your sh....stuff updated, and don't just open any lolcats.exe file sent to you by some long-lost 3rd cousin twice remove on your great-aunt side. If you keep in mind that the internest is the most untrusted, malicious network out there, and you treat is as such, you could be OK. Security has not changed all that much in the last few decades (I'd say since computers where initially connected together back in the mainframe days; before the 'net), and much of the basic exploits & vulnerabilities out there are the same one from way back when (ref: The Cuckoo's Egg): for some obscure/expedient reason the secretary has full admin access over the boss' systems & accounts, and her default password is the name of her dog, or something as stupid as "god" or "password". Or you can simply ring her directly, say you're Bob from the IT department, and you need her password for routine maintenance; similar to those phishing mails you get from CitiBank/KiwiBank asking you to click this (untrusted http) tinyURL link to update your details... Security is about risk-management, and you'd be surprised how effective you can mitigate risk by the exercise of a little bit of common-sense - J From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Mon Dec 21 12:42:30 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Mon Dec 21 12:43:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <190556.22827.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz>, <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net>, <190556.22827.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B2F6D36.17769.29ED85@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Please excuse my ignorance. What does "NS stand for? Don Johnston > >It probably also doesn't really protect you much in the long run; once it > > >becomes popular, attackers will adapt and the security value will drop. > > There have been adaptations to mal-code to account for NS in the past; NS have frequent updates to account for this, a it the case in any of these arms races. > > Moral of the story: at least take rudimentary security steps, such as installing an AV & NS, keep your sh....stuff updated, and don't just open any lolcats.exe file sent to you by some long-lost 3rd cousin twice remove on your great-aunt side. > If you keep in mind that the internest is the most untrusted, malicious network out there, and you treat is as such, you could be OK. > > Security has not changed all that much in the last few decades (I'd say since computers where initially connected together back in the mainframe days; before the 'net), and much of the basic exploits & vulnerabilities out there are the same one from way back when (ref: The Cuckoo's Egg): for some obscure/expedient reason the secretary has full admin access over the boss' systems & accounts, and her default password is the name of her dog, or something as stupid as "god" or "password". > Or you can simply ring her directly, say you're Bob from the IT department, and you need her password for routine maintenance; similar to those phishing mails you get from CitiBank/KiwiBank asking you to click this (untrusted http) tinyURL link to update your details... > > Security is about risk-management, and you'd be surprised how effective you can mitigate risk by the exercise of a little bit of common-sense > > - J > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 21 12:51:10 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 21 12:51:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <4B2F6D36.17769.29ED85@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz>, <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net>, <190556.22827.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B2F6D36.17769.29ED85@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <271325.98059.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >What does "NS stand for? Sorry; abbreviated NoScript as NS, since this is a principal topic of discussion in this thread - J From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Dec 21 16:00:44 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Dec 21 16:01:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <190556.22827.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <200912172059.nBHKxnHA003483@gaffer.hosts.net.nz> <4B2C00F7.28644.2E0AE16@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <87d42bmbjd.fsf@rimspace.net> <190556.22827.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Moral of the story: at least take rudimentary security steps, such as installing an AV & NS, keep your sh....stuff updated, and don't just open any lolcats.exe file sent to you by some long-lost 3rd cousin twice remove on your great-aunt side. That guy's a pick - I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw 'im. > Security has not changed all that much in the last few decades (I'd say since computers where initially connected together back in the mainframe days; before the 'net), and much of the basic exploits & vulnerabilities out there are the same one from way back when (ref: The Cuckoo's Egg): for some obscure/expedient reason the secretary has full admin access over the boss' systems & accounts, and her default password is the name of her dog, or something as stupid as "god" or "password". > Or you can simply ring her directly, say you're Bob from the IT department, and you need her password for routine maintenance; similar to those phishing mails you get from CitiBank/KiwiBank asking you to click this (untrusted http) tinyURL link to update your details... > > Security is about risk-management, and you'd be surprised how effective you can mitigate risk by the exercise of a little bit of common-sense And here's the crux of it. It's not good enough to just protect against current vulnerabilities/threats. Security is as much about trying to mitigate as many potntial threats as possible. eg. If someone gets access to a users account, what damage can they do? Are your permissions as tight as possible? Have you got an obscure non-stupid password (such as a random string). We've had it fairly easy in Linux thus far but it's best not to take this for granted. If your files are compromised, are you ready to be able to fully restore your system? (if one file's been compromised, who's to say that no others in your system have been?). I think this may be a bit of a hole in Linux. While we're security conscious to some extent, we don't use TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) virus scanners which for the desktop is kind of an advantage for the time being - no overheads from having to constantly scan for viruses. I think this is more because it's a bit of an unknown. What would we scan for? More importantly, vulnerabilities are there for Linux. We attempt to mitigate this by running services as their own user rather than under the root account. The vulnerabilities are normally in individual packages. So, it's really important to try and keep your system up to date. There was a vulnerability in the Linux Kernel that existed for ages I think - some sort of overflow thing which wasn't discovered for ages so even keeping your system up to date may not be enough. On the plus side, given that the vulnerability wasn't discovered, I don't think anyone actually exploited it. For Windows guests, unless you're going to be using them as a temporary environment i.e. their state is restored to a known state after each use (snapshots are really handy here), you're going to have to bite the bullet and take the overhead, like a good Windows user, and install a virus scanner. Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 21 16:24:59 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 21 16:25:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware Message-ID: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >There was a vulnerability in the Linux Kernel that existed for >ages I think - some sort of overflow I think I know what you're referring to. It was discovered & reported ages ago, but little was done about it (assumption of "someone else"). It might've slipped into obscurity, but that does not mean it was not exploited (just under-reported) If you're really super-paranoid & want NSA-class security, then you may have to ditch GNU/Linux & go for a BSD - security & stability is their principal concern. Of course, you'll also have to read all the code you've downloaded & compile them yourself to be sure there are no bad bits in there ... not practical There are a certain amount of bugs per lines of code, irrespective of open vs closed, free vs libre, whatever; and bugs can lead to exploits (i.e. buffer or stack overflows) To keep feed-your-paranoia/up-to-date of current & emerging bugs & potential exploits (0-day's), and to see there to keep yourself covered, refer to http://www.sans.org/newsletters/risk/ (newsletter archive). There are a few other similar ones, but I simply don't have the nerve left for those... From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Dec 21 17:51:01 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Dec 21 17:51:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Mon, 21 Dec 2009 03:24:59 +0000 (GMT)") References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: >> There was a vulnerability in the Linux Kernel that existed for ages I think >> some sort of overflow > > I think I know what you're referring to. Well, you have a range to choose from, including the recent socket option vulnerability, various IPSec overflows, some historic remotely exploitable IP protocol bugs, and so forth. > It was discovered & reported ages ago, but little was done about it > (assumption of "someone else"). It might've slipped into obscurity, but that > does not mean it was not exploited (just under-reported) I am curious to know which issue this is. I presume you can't mean any of the vulnerabilities that would up with a CVE number assigned or anything like that, and I can't think of anything that meets those criteria, so... > If you're really super-paranoid & want NSA-class security, then you may have > to ditch GNU/Linux & go for a BSD - security & stability is their principal > concern. Gosh, and here I was thinking that they recently had a file exposure bug allowing users to see privileged files normally outside their control, a root exploit in the RTLD system, a privilege escalation in the VFS, a race in the kqueue system, and a range of less important vulnerabilities ... in just one branch. Almost as if, just like Linux, they have a whole lot of vulnerabilities, to which they respond in a timely and organized fashion, publish widely read advisories, and resolve the issues effectively or something. Also, um, the *BSD port of the NSA implementation of Flask happened after the Linux hosted development efforts, so while the NSA have long published guides to securing *BSD derived systems, I think it might be stretching it a bit to suggest that the NSA have less focus on security for Linux and all. :) > Of course, you'll also have to read all the code you've downloaded & compile > them yourself to be sure there are no bad bits in there ... not practical I almost hate to say it, but "Reflections on Trusting Trust" and all... > There are a certain amount of bugs per lines of code, irrespective of open > vs closed, free vs libre, whatever; and bugs can lead to exploits > (i.e. buffer or stack overflows) Uh-huh. Typically, in fact, approximately equal numbers regardless of the development methodology, it seems. The biggest risk seems to be that closed systems more often rely on "...and no one will guess" security compared to the open versions. Daniel -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From baldwin.bryanmichael at gmail.com Mon Dec 21 08:44:39 2009 From: baldwin.bryanmichael at gmail.com (Bryan Michael Baldwin) Date: Mon Dec 21 18:05:35 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Recovery with dual boot In-Reply-To: <6c4a2bfd0912192300n3fc46d59v4f75ba45c0a7dcd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B2E0660.9560.B1AC6F@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <6c4a2bfd0912192300n3fc46d59v4f75ba45c0a7dcd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1261338279.2059.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2009-12-20 at 20:00 +1300, Tommy Alsemgeest wrote: > After reinstalling windows, you can reinstall the grub without having to > reinstall Mint. This guide, > even though it was written for ubuntu, should work for Mint as well. SuperGrubDisc does this, too. Its an indispensable tool. I always have a copy on hand. As far as your Win partition is concerned, you are better off making a minimal installation and then taking a partimage image and saving the compressed image off machine. That way you can restore it from GNU+Linux without redundant installation. If you have lots of off machine storage and the time to build a large image, create your "baseline" Windows configuration with all your commonly used programs before making a partimage snapshot. Bryan From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Dec 21 18:09:29 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Dec 21 18:10:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >approximately equal numbers regardless of the development methodology, it seems. exactly the idea I wanted to convey, thanks. >"...and no one will guess" security compared to the open versions. closed relies on "security by obscurity", and often fall prey to reverse-engineering. Open systems have the benefit of more eye-balls on the code, but projects also run a greater risk of fragmentation/forking, providing a larger attack-surface All of this has not even taken into account the lowest-level; many/most hardware parts & components come from China, and it's very hard to know what's embedded in your devices/firmware From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Dec 21 18:41:26 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Dec 21 18:41:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > All of this has not even taken into account the lowest-level; many/most hardware parts & components come from China, and it's very hard to know what's embedded in your devices/firmware Whoa there! There's only so much foil in the world with which to make hats ;) From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Mon Dec 21 21:29:35 2009 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Josh Martens) Date: Mon Dec 21 21:30:16 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1261384176.4173.30.camel@studypad> > > > > All of this has not even taken into account the lowest-level; many/most hardware parts & components come from China, and it's very hard to know what's embedded in your devices/firmware > > Whoa there! There's only so much foil in the world with which to make hats ;) > > ____ Oh China has more than enough for all your hat making needs. If New Zealand is experiencing a shortage I am currently in Fuzhou in the Eastern part of China and would be happy to help out any desperate paranoid conspiracy theorists for the cheap cheap price of 1,000? per roll of tin foil, plus p&p. > ___________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Dec 21 23:39:33 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Dec 21 23:40:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:09:29 +0000 (GMT)") References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: >> approximately equal numbers regardless of the development methodology, it >> seems. > > exactly the idea I wanted to convey, thanks. > >> [closed software sometimes relies on] "...and no one will guess" security >> compared to the open versions. > > closed relies on "security by obscurity", and often fall prey to > reverse-engineering. I wouldn't be so blanket, myself; back when I worked at a close software company we most assuredly did not rely on obscurity, but rather on genuine security, done by the same sort of people who do it for open projects. > Open systems have the benefit of more eye-balls on the code, but projects > also run a greater risk of fragmentation/forking, providing a larger > attack-surface One of the findings that was surprising was the bug-density was pretty much a constant; more eyeballs, or less, more code-review or less, language choice, and similar variations didn't move the figures much at all in the last batch of studies I eyeballed. OTOH, I have no citations, so... Daniel -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 22 09:08:35 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Dec 22 09:09:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >I wouldn't be so blanket, myself; back when I worked at a close software >company we most assuredly did not rely on obscurity, but rather on genuine >security, done by the same sort of people who do it for open projects. True, but such cases are few & far between. There's a push in the infosec community to encourage disclosure (if only amongst trusted peers), but it's a tough nut to crack. Of there may be NDA's & IP tied up with it, which may hamper or discourage disclosure. >One of the findings that was surprising was the bug-density was pretty much a >constant; more eyeballs... Interesting; do you think it is something like a quantifiable human-factor in computing? From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 22 13:38:07 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 22 13:38:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meetings Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I've been thinking recently about the subjects for next year's meetings. What meetings this year stood out for people? For me it would have to be the one Martin did on bash scripting and Chill's one on Asterisk. So with that in mind, I'd like to do a repeat of these meetings. For the Asterisk one, I'd like to have 2. An introduction and a more focused specific set up sort of thing. There's been a bit of talk about Android as well but if you're like me, you probably find it a litle disconcerting not knowig which parts are open, which parts aren't and why aren't those parts open? Do open versions of these bits exist? etc. So if anyone wants to volunteer to do a presentation on this it would very much appreciated. In fact, t might be kind of fun to do a few things on hardware this year. Arduino's, we've always had the RepRap (looking forward to seeing the new version in action), perhaps even some home brew type things? What would everyone like to see in the meetings in the coming year? Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 22 14:04:09 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Dec 22 14:04:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <736578.70200.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> If I recall correctly, there was talk about a pt.II of the VoIP discussion (Asterisk only bing the platform). I'm pretty interested in this myself. Also, there would've been more on VM's. As of yet we've not had a single workshop/installfest/whatever (other than the SFD), so I'd expect that's something that requires discussion, and we'll have to start talking about the upcoming SFD & starting to get things sorted. As I've recently leaned I'm going to be a dad (woot!), I expect that I'll be taking a less active role this year; shift in priorities. Stuff that may become more important (maybe), may be the likes of the SugarOS group, edu & ways of reducing costs or making more $$$ on the side - J From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 22 15:00:12 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 22 15:00:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meetings In-Reply-To: <736578.70200.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <736578.70200.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > As of yet we've not had a single workshop/installfest/whatever (other than the SFD), so I'd expect that's something that requires discussion, and we'll have to start talking about the upcoming SFD & starting to get things sorted. > > As I've recently leaned I'm going to be a dad (woot!), I expect that I'll be taking a less active role this year; shift in priorities. > Stuff that may become more important (maybe), may be the likes of the SugarOS group, edu & ways of reducing costs or making more $$$ on the side Congradulations on becomng a dad! Workshops are something that's kind of .... difficult. The equipment to participate can be a real mission given that either everyone has to have something they can use. A laptop is probably a step in the right direction. What do others think? We could potentially be alienating those without the equipment although given the number number of pub meets this year, I may just be blowing smoke... From sond at ihug.co.nz Tue Dec 22 15:23:07 2009 From: sond at ihug.co.nz (sond) Date: Tue Dec 22 15:23:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients Message-ID: <4B302D8B.1050600@ihug.co.nz> Howdy all.. I'm looking for a few thin clients for the staff mess hall, primarily to save some space, and function as internet kiosks.. ( also i get to revisit LTSP ) whats good out there these days ( low cost preferred ) ? sond From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 22 15:42:34 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Dec 22 15:43:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <4B302D8B.1050600@ihug.co.nz> References: <4B302D8B.1050600@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: <972877.79069.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >whats good out there these days ( low cost preferred ) ? Do you want cheap, or do you want small? I picked up a HP Vectra from a retailer on TradeMe for $10, and was more than adequate for my needs (pfSense firewall). If you're into form-factor, then you could consider the fit-PC2 (really very nice), or any of a range of "nettops" (see pricespy) From justin at skull.co.nz Tue Dec 22 15:46:53 2009 From: justin at skull.co.nz (Justin Cook) Date: Tue Dec 22 15:47:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <972877.79069.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B302D8B.1050600@ihug.co.nz> <972877.79069.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93a52e0e0912211846v765398f4o707af8dccb549317@mail.gmail.com> Since we're pretty much next-door to the subject, is there a decent list (apart from pricespy) of netbooks available in NZ floating around? What's everyone's preference in their netbook? 2009/12/22 Jaco van der Merwe > >whats good out there these days ( low cost preferred ) ? > Do you want cheap, or do you want small? > I picked up a HP Vectra from a retailer on TradeMe for $10, and was more > than adequate for my needs (pfSense firewall). > If you're into form-factor, then you could consider the fit-PC2 (really > very nice), or any of a range of "nettops" (see pricespy) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From sond at ihug.co.nz Tue Dec 22 15:47:18 2009 From: sond at ihug.co.nz (sond) Date: Tue Dec 22 15:47:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <972877.79069.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <4B302D8B.1050600@ihug.co.nz> <972877.79069.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B303336.40104@ihug.co.nz> I want small, cheap, quiet and good looking !! : ) Jaco van der Merwe wrote: >> whats good out there these days ( low cost preferred ) ? >> > Do you want cheap, or do you want small? > I picked up a HP Vectra from a retailer on TradeMe for $10, and was more than adequate for my needs (pfSense firewall). > If you're into form-factor, then you could consider the fit-PC2 (really very nice), or any of a range of "nettops" (see pricespy) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 22 16:02:21 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Dec 22 16:02:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <4B303336.40104@ihug.co.nz> References: <4B302D8B.1050600@ihug.co.nz> <972877.79069.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4B303336.40104@ihug.co.nz> Message-ID: <907879.23451.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >I want small, cheap, quiet and good looking !! : ) hehehehe. yea, I also want to win the lottery, but I'm not counting on that. I've given up on aesthetics in favor of cost. TradeMe is a good place to look for cheap kit, and those are fine for systems to build & chuck in the basement (& you get underfloor heating to boot :p ) But if you're after something that won't take up the entire desk, you'll have to spend a bit (i.e. fit-PC2). Dell has a nice unit (Studio Hybrid), and so do Asus (eeePC), but these can be nearly as much as simply getting a cheaper PC. AFAIK, none of these systems are available in NZ without some sort of windows pre-installed (I think Ascent are one of the few that do this). At the scale extreme, you could look at gumstix.com, but that may be a bit extreme for most (but, oh! think of the possibilities) Recently I've been messing with ALIX & Atom-based systems, and could think of a few good uses for them A good local retailer/distributor is Hads from NiceGear.co.nz Service is good & he's a friend to the FLOSS cause An Oz outfit that do similar systems, but with video-out: www.yawarra.com.au Hope this gives you something to go by - J From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 22 16:28:41 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 22 16:29:10 2009 Subject: Alt Price Comparison / netbooks was Re: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Justin Cook wrote: > Since we're pretty much next-door to the subject, is there a decent list > (apart from pricespy) of netbooks available in NZ floating around? What's > everyone's preference in their netbook? I would like to find something like this myself. Especailly something which I could plug in the fact that I'm after a Linux edition or whatever. In terms of price, from what I've seen, it goes something along the lines of benq with their joybook range (these are popping up in small outfits now) and then HP with their HP mini range. I've only ever used the HP Mini and it has been a little bit of a hassle - cracked casing, keys getting stuck. That sort of thing. Regards, Nevyn. From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Dec 22 19:58:23 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Dec 22 19:59:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:08:35 +0000 (GMT)") References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net> <73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87bphrh4vk.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: >>I wouldn't be so blanket, myself; back when I worked at a close software >> >>company we most assuredly did not rely on obscurity, but rather on genuine >>security, done by the same sort of people who do it for open projects. > > True, but such cases are few & far between. I would love to see some convincing numbers one way or another. I can certainly agree that it is easier for the marketing department in a closed company to argue for this strategy, though. :) > There's a push in the infosec community to encourage disclosure (if only > amongst trusted peers), but it's a tough nut to crack. Of there may be > NDA's & IP tied up with it, which may hamper or discourage disclosure. *nod* >>One of the findings that was surprising was the bug-density was pretty much a >>constant; more eyeballs... > > Interesting; do you think it is something like a quantifiable human-factor > in computing? That would be my guess: essentially, we see a certain amount of human error per unit of work. Implementing something like a "six sigma" process improvement system would probably work, but the industry is too immature and the work too "artisan" for it to be easy yet... This is a /long/ way from my strength, though. I am mostly dependent on having read various studies and verified that their methodology wasn't completely insane to the science-illiterate ^W^W average industry reader. Daniel -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 22 21:30:30 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Dec 22 21:31:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <87bphrh4vk.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net> <73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87bphrh4vk.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <996355.86879.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >I would love to see some convincing numbers one way or another. Sorry, but InfoSec is not my primary expertise (I'm just trying to keep my head above water). I can only talk from personal experience: I've found turn-around times on FLOSS-code are often days (ref OpenSSH & DD-WRT "bugs"), whereas non-FLOSS could take longer, or sometimes get re-introduced (talking degrees here; not absolutes). Sometimes I wonder it the idea of the ms "patch-Tuesday" is not a way to address the frequent updates (& new bugs) offered by apt, rpm & yum As mentioned before, look at (or subscribe to) sans.org for detailed info on 0-day's & current trends, and what you could do to mitigate the effects Here's a pretty long list that you can look at: http://www.novainfosecportal.com/resources/infosec-organizations/ From pieter at insync.za.net Tue Dec 22 21:46:01 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Tue Dec 22 21:47:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net><552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net><73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><87bphrh4vk.fsf@rimspace.net> <996355.86879.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi All, That does beg the question thou - how will people react to the fact that "you" are now trying to delay/struct the developers. I for one, will find it a tad hard to do that, because I write code when it comes to me, I might wake up at 3am and complete a feature or fix a bug etc. My point is that, yes, you can try and delay releases but what if a release is placed on a GIT/SVN server on Thursday, and only made public on Tuesday....hackers have all that time to exploit it. The reason it works in Microsoft is two fold, imho. 1) They control the code - all of it 2) How often do you need to reboot a Linux host for patching vs a MS host (no - don't open that can of worms :) ) but really now :) Then there is things like SE-Linux etc. I would say - you should be able to patch your linux hosts on a daily bases, without the worry of rebooting. You might need to restart some services - all can be scripted thou. One more reason for not "delaying" it - All remember "Nuking" machines ? (Showing my age here), but that was fixed in 6 hours on a Linux host, imaging if that was found and fixed on a Wednesday... Sorry for jumping in late, and I might be totally off track here, but that is my 2c Cheers, Pieter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaco van der Merwe" <> To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 21:30 Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware >I would love to see some convincing numbers one way or another. Sorry, but InfoSec is not my primary expertise (I'm just trying to keep my head above water). I can only talk from personal experience: I've found turn-around times on FLOSS-code are often days (ref OpenSSH & DD-WRT "bugs"), whereas non-FLOSS could take longer, or sometimes get re-introduced (talking degrees here; not absolutes). Sometimes I wonder it the idea of the ms "patch-Tuesday" is not a way to address the frequent updates (& new bugs) offered by apt, rpm & yum As mentioned before, look at (or subscribe to) sans.org for detailed info on 0-day's & current trends, and what you could do to mitigate the effects Here's a pretty long list that you can look at: http://www.novainfosecportal.com/resources/infosec-organizations/ _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Dec 22 23:24:17 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Dec 22 23:25:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: <996355.86879.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:30:30 +0000 (GMT)") References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net> <73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87bphrh4vk.fsf@rimspace.net> <996355.86879.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87my1bfgry.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: >> I would love to see some convincing numbers [on the decision to use >> obscurity for security, in software development] one way or another. > Sorry, but InfoSec is not my primary expertise (I'm just trying to keep my > head above water). > > I can only talk from personal experience: I've found turn-around times on > FLOSS-code are often days (ref OpenSSH & DD-WRT "bugs"), whereas non-FLOSS > could take longer, or sometimes get re-introduced (talking degrees here; not > absolutes). Well, in the realm of personal experience, I can certainly say that I have had a completely mixed bag: some open and closed vendors react quickly and well, other open and closed vendors are awful. The reason I am interested in actual studies, though, is that they keep returning results that contradict some of the "common wisdom" of personal experience. This leads me to expect that my own experience is also a poor guide to the real-world results... > Sometimes I wonder it the idea of the ms "patch-Tuesday" is not a way to > address the frequent updates (& new bugs) offered by apt, rpm & yum Actually, it is to balance the needs of Microsoft, of their customers, and the wider community, in an effort to effectively distribute patches without too much cost. (For example, it lets the IT staff with literally tens of thousands of machines to patch draw up a schedule that includes planning for the testing and deployment of less urgent patches to their networks.) > As mentioned before, look at (or subscribe to) sans.org for detailed info on > 0-day's & current trends, and what you could do to mitigate the effects While InfoSec is only a small part of my job, it is part of it. I appreciate the pointers, though. You never know when something new will pop up that way. :) Daniel -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Dec 22 23:29:10 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Dec 22 23:29:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware In-Reply-To: (Pieter De Wit's message of "Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:46:01 +1300") References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net> <552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net> <73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87bphrh4vk.fsf@rimspace.net> <996355.86879.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87iqbzfgjt.fsf@rimspace.net> "Pieter De Wit" writes: > That does beg the question thou - how will people react to the fact that > "you" are now trying to delay/struct the developers. I for one, will find it > a tad hard to do that, because I write code when it comes to me, I might > wake up at 3am and complete a feature or fix a bug etc. That sort of process only works up to a certain scale; at 25 people a company can get away with it. At 25,000 it is ... well, I hate to ever say "impossible", so let me stick with the safer "unlikely, in my opinion". :) > My point is that, yes, you can try and delay releases but what if a release > is placed on a GIT/SVN server on Thursday, and only made public on > Tuesday....hackers have all that time to exploit it. There have been a number of coordinated vulnerability announcements along with patches to software is the FOSS community, on the scale of the Linux kernel, or DNS ? things that have tens of millions of seats to patch. [...] > Then there is things like SE-Linux etc. NT got a C2 certification well before Linux did. Just sayin'[1] [...] > One more reason for not "delaying" it - All remember "Nuking" machines ? > (Showing my age here), but that was fixed in 6 hours on a Linux host, > imaging if that was found and fixed on a Wednesday... ...then it would get an emergency critical patch release. Not very surprisingly, this is how Microsoft also handle the situation. Which is to say: for all they suck, Linux may not actually be /that/ much better. It all depends how you cut it, really. Daniel Footnotes: [1] In this case, probably sayin' that C2 is not really very relevant in the real world, and especially the modern networked one, but hey. ;) -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons From pieter at insync.za.net Wed Dec 23 08:41:22 2009 From: pieter at insync.za.net (Pieter De Wit) Date: Wed Dec 23 08:42:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Protection against viruses, spyware and adware References: <199994.96421.qm@web26102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><871viphqve.fsf@rimspace.net><552486.66821.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><87fx74fw62.fsf@rimspace.net><73681.28031.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><87bphrh4vk.fsf@rimspace.net><996355.86879.qm@web26108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <87iqbzfgjt.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: (Wow - that is a nasty one in Outlook Express - it doesn't add the > in the lines so I will try and comment my uhm...comments :) ) > That does beg the question thou - how will people react to the fact that > "you" are now trying to delay/struct the developers. I for one, will find > it > a tad hard to do that, because I write code when it comes to me, I might > wake up at 3am and complete a feature or fix a bug etc. That sort of process only works up to a certain scale; at 25 people a company can get away with it. At 25,000 it is ... well, I hate to ever say "impossible", so let me stick with the safer "unlikely, in my opinion". :) Comment : My original statement was aimed at the open source side of things - most projects often have less than 10 devs working on it. Even thou that might sound like something that isn't relevant, think about something like grep or sed or awk (I think awk might be the odd one here), but they are all "relatively" simple utils with a few devs. They are used in production code all over the world thou, so if a bug/new feature hits them, then the above could apply. But yes - when there is money involved and some coder codes because it's his job (hide that can of worms !!!) then a company can implement release times etc. > Then there is things like SE-Linux etc. NT got a C2 certification well before Linux did. Just sayin'[1] Comment - see [2] :D [...] > One more reason for not "delaying" it - All remember "Nuking" machines ? > (Showing my age here), but that was fixed in 6 hours on a Linux host, > imaging if that was found and fixed on a Wednesday... ...then it would get an emergency critical patch release. Not very surprisingly, this is how Microsoft also handle the situation. I have yet to see one of these since the whole "Patch Tuesday" although I must admit, my memory could let me down here :) Which is to say: for all they suck, Linux may not actually be /that/ much better. It all depends how you cut it, really. Agreed - it also depends on the Sys Admin. How well they know Linux,Windows etc. hhhmmm - anyone know Mac's patching policy ? Daniel Footnotes: [1] In this case, probably sayin' that C2 is not really very relevant in the real world, and especially the modern networked one, but hey. ;) [2] Yeah - C2 said I had to disconnect my file server from the network...man, I should have kept a screenshot ! -- ? Daniel Pittman ? daniel@rimspace.net ? +61 401 155 707 ? made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From apelly at monkeymasters.co.nz Wed Dec 23 13:45:59 2009 From: apelly at monkeymasters.co.nz (Aaron Pelly) Date: Wed Dec 23 13:46:33 2009 Subject: Alt Price Comparison / netbooks was Re: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02b301ca8369$4b6893f0$e239bbd0$@co.nz> On 2009-12-22, Nevyn wrote: > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Justin Cook > wrote: >> Since we're pretty much next-door to the subject, is there a decent >> list (apart from pricespy) of netbooks available in NZ floating around? >> What's everyone's preference in their netbook? > > I would like to find something like this myself. Especailly something > which I could plug in the fact that I'm after a Linux edition or > whatever. I stuck my head into DSE at the end of Queen St to kill 5 minutes this morning. Saw an Acer/Intel Atom something with a Windows logo /and/ an Android logo. Sort of piqued my interest, but not enough to do actual research at the time. Anyone know what that's all about? Seems to me that at about $700 you can't afford /not/ to have one... But probably not from DSE Aaron. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 23 15:36:16 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 23 15:36:50 2009 Subject: Alt Price Comparison / netbooks was Re: [AuckLUG] Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <02b301ca8369$4b6893f0$e239bbd0$@co.nz> References: <02b301ca8369$4b6893f0$e239bbd0$@co.nz> Message-ID: <305456.38517.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> >Android logo. Sort of piqued my interest, but not enough to do actual >research at the time. Anyone know what that's all about? oooooh! tasty http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/4b31826f013af2822741c0a87f3b06e4/Product/View/XC4376 Be cautious of the Aspire One's though; they do not allow for boot from SD cards; only USB From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Wed Dec 30 20:31:20 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Wed Dec 30 20:31:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Can't keep display settings Message-ID: <4B3BB898.30494.189F77@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I am using Linux Mint 8 (Helena) and I have installed the Nvidia driver which is available from the repository. Every time I boot I have to reset the display settings. If I click on the "Save to X Configuration File" button in the "Nvidia X Server Settings" dialogue box and then click on "Save" I get the message "Unable to create new X config backup file '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup'". Also, should I merge with the existing "org.conf" file or should I replace it? Don Johnston From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 31 09:26:45 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 31 09:27:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Folder access problems Message-ID: <4B3C6E55.9720.303D6D@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> My desktop computer has Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable with Windows XP Professional. I set up file sharing for my linux home folder. My laptop, which is running Windows XP Professional, recognises that folder. When I try to access it, I am asked for my user name and password, which I presume is for Mint. When I click on "OK" in that dialogue box, the box comes back again. I can access the FAT32 and NTFS partitions on the desktop computer from Mint but the only way I can access them from the laptop is to reboot the desktop computer using Windows. Don Johnston From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 31 10:35:34 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 31 10:36:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware configuration problem Message-ID: <4B3C7E76.11623.6F3CAF@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I installed VMware Server on Linux Mint 8 (Helena). The configuration program failed to build the vmmon module. The results of the attempt are attached. Don Johnston -------------- next part -------------- The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: VMwareConfiguration.txt Date: 31 Dec 2009, 10:34 Size: 11151 bytes. Type: Text From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 10:40:41 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 31 10:41:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Folder access problems In-Reply-To: <4B3C6E55.9720.303D6D@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B3C6E55.9720.303D6D@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > My desktop computer has Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable with > Windows XP Professional. > > I set up file sharing for my linux home folder. My laptop, which is > running Windows XP Professional, recognises that folder. When I try > to access it, I am asked for my user name and password, which I > presume is for Mint. When I click on "OK" in that dialogue box, the > box comes back again. > > I can access the FAT32 and NTFS partitions on the desktop computer > from Mint but the only way I can access them from the laptop is to > reboot the desktop computer using Windows. > > Don Johnston Hi Don, Simple problem really. Samba requires you to set up users for it. It doesn't use your linux login's by default. I've never been sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I imagine it'd be one more thing to keep in account when trying to keep passwords in sync. Funnily enough this fact seems to be missing from most set up guides or is only a line or two meaning it never really stands out. I've also never really looked into gui ways of doing this. There are some instructions here: http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/manual4/sambausers.html Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 10:42:11 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 31 10:42:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware configuration problem In-Reply-To: <4B3C7E76.11623.6F3CAF@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B3C7E76.11623.6F3CAF@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > I installed VMware Server on Linux Mint 8 (Helena). The configuration > program failed to build the vmmon module. The results of the attempt > are attached. > > Don Johnston Hi Don, The list doesn't allow attachments. If you need to share a file you need to provide some sort of link to it or if it's just text data then paste it in the email. Regards, Nevyn. From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 31 11:01:24 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 31 11:02:11 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] VMware configuration problem In-Reply-To: References: <4B3C7E76.11623.6F3CAF@admin.ncearevision.co.nz>, Message-ID: <4B3C8484.12168.86E4C6@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Here is the last part of what appeared on the screen apart from documentation links which didn't help me: In file included from /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon- only/linux/vmhost.h:13, from /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon- only/linux/driver.c:71: /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/./include/compat_semaphore.h:5:27: error: asm/semaphore.h: No such file or directory /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:146: error: unknown field `nopage? specified in initializer /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:147: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:150: error: unknown field `nopage? specified in initializer /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:151: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c: In function `LinuxDriver_Ioctl?: /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1650: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `euid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1650: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `uid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1651: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `fsuid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1651: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `uid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1652: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `egid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1652: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `gid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1653: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `fsgid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1653: error: `struct task_struct? has no member named `gid? /tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.c:1670: error: too many arguments to function `smp_call_function? make[2]: *** [/tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only/linux/driver.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [_module_/tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.31-14-generic' make: *** [vmmon.ko] Error 2 make: Leaving directory `/tmp/vmware-config2/vmmon-only' Unable to build the vmmon module. Execution aborted. Don Johnston > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > > I installed VMware Server on Linux Mint 8 (Helena). The configuration > > program failed to build the vmmon module. The results of the attempt > > are attached. > > > > Don Johnston > > Hi Don, > > The list doesn't allow attachments. If you need to share a file you > need to provide some sort of link to it or if it's just text data then > paste it in the email. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 31 11:01:24 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 31 11:02:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Folder access problems In-Reply-To: References: <4B3C6E55.9720.303D6D@admin.ncearevision.co.nz>, Message-ID: <4B3C8484.17003.86E459@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> This is the result I got: C2 / # [root@server2 samba]# smbpasswd -a agustin [root@server2: command not found Don Johnston > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > > My desktop computer has Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable with > > Windows XP Professional. > > > > I set up file sharing for my linux home folder. My laptop, which is > > running Windows XP Professional, recognises that folder. When I try > > to access it, I am asked for my user name and password, which I > > presume is for Mint. When I click on "OK" in that dialogue box, the > > box comes back again. > > > > I can access the FAT32 and NTFS partitions on the desktop computer > > from Mint but the only way I can access them from the laptop is to > > reboot the desktop computer using Windows. > > > > Don Johnston > > Hi Don, > > Simple problem really. Samba requires you to set up users for it. It > doesn't use your linux login's by default. I've never been sure if > this is a good thing or a bad thing. I imagine it'd be one more thing > to keep in account when trying to keep passwords in sync. Funnily > enough this fact seems to be missing from most set up guides or is > only a line or two meaning it never really stands out. > > I've also never really looked into gui ways of doing this. There are > some instructions here: > http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/manual4/sambausers.html > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 11:21:35 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 31 11:22:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Folder access problems In-Reply-To: <4B3C8484.17003.86E459@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B3C6E55.9720.303D6D@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <4B3C8484.17003.86E459@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > This is the result I got: > > C2 / # [root@server2 samba]# smbpasswd -a agustin > [root@server2: command not found > > Don Johnston :/ Now that's weird. Perhaps it's on a path only accessible by your root user? Try: sudo smbpasswd -a [username] I think it fails if the username isn't already a user on your system. Regards, Nevyn. From admin at ncearevision.co.nz Thu Dec 31 11:38:08 2009 From: admin at ncearevision.co.nz (Don Johnston) Date: Thu Dec 31 11:38:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Folder access problems In-Reply-To: <4B3C8484.17003.86E459@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B3C6E55.9720.303D6D@admin.ncearevision.co.nz>, , <4B3C8484.17003.86E459@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: <4B3C8D20.9998.A88636@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> I managed to set the password but my attempts to make smbpasswd read only were unsuccessful. The results were as follows: C2 / # sudo smbpasswd -a don New SMB password: Retype new SMB password: Added user don. C2 / # [root@server2 samba]# chmod 644 smbpasswd [root@server2: command not found C2 / # sudo chmod 644 smbpasswd chmod: cannot access `smbpasswd': No such file or directory Don Johnston > This is the result I got: > > C2 / # [root@server2 samba]# smbpasswd -a agustin > [root@server2: command not found > > Don Johnston > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > > > My desktop computer has Linux Mint 8 (Helena) dual bootable with > > > Windows XP Professional. > > > > > > I set up file sharing for my linux home folder. My laptop, which is > > > running Windows XP Professional, recognises that folder. When I try > > > to access it, I am asked for my user name and password, which I > > > presume is for Mint. When I click on "OK" in that dialogue box, the > > > box comes back again. > > > > > > I can access the FAT32 and NTFS partitions on the desktop computer > > > from Mint but the only way I can access them from the laptop is to > > > reboot the desktop computer using Windows. > > > > > > Don Johnston > > > > Hi Don, > > > > Simple problem really. Samba requires you to set up users for it. It > > doesn't use your linux login's by default. I've never been sure if > > this is a good thing or a bad thing. I imagine it'd be one more thing > > to keep in account when trying to keep passwords in sync. Funnily > > enough this fact seems to be missing from most set up guides or is > > only a line or two meaning it never really stands out. > > > > I've also never really looked into gui ways of doing this. There are > > some instructions here: > > http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/manual4/sambausers.html > > > > Regards, > > Nevyn. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 16:42:19 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 31 17:04:44 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Folder access problems In-Reply-To: <4B3C8D20.9998.A88636@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> References: <4B3C6E55.9720.303D6D@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <4B3C8484.17003.86E459@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> <4B3C8D20.9998.A88636@admin.ncearevision.co.nz> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Don Johnston wrote: > I managed to set the password but my attempts to make smbpasswd read > only were unsuccessful. The results were as follows: > > C2 / # sudo smbpasswd -a don > New SMB password: > Retype new SMB password: > Added user don. > C2 / # [root@server2 samba]# chmod 644 smbpasswd > [root@server2: command not found > C2 / # sudo chmod 644 smbpasswd > chmod: cannot access `smbpasswd': No such file or directory > > Don Johnston I don't think you should need to change the permissions on smbpasswd (it'll be in /etc/samba by the way). Have you tried connecting? The other thing to check is to make sure that your domain names match. They don't have to but it's a little easier if they do. I can't quite remember how to check your domain name on your windows computer but in linux it'll be in /etc/samba/smb.conf