From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 08:22:35 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 1 08:22:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770903302332o6911d72bx653b409f2dd8d128@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770903301334m22ab00fakb222d609ff3c3cd7@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301406j6aaa8892te7cc235ca117535f@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301433k1e0a7412u427fb85db973b400@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920903301439v7e7a085cudda150ae17499213@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301456u66edab7fgdc183cf46cadfd69@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903302332o6911d72bx653b409f2dd8d128@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > > i know what the settings will be, i've been using the same monitor and > video card since edgy eft - it's how to get xorg to use manual and not > auto settings that baffles me > i may need to look into the issue of mode lines, as i think martin suggested If you add 'em, they will be used as far as I know. It offers the convenience of not having to have everything defined but will use the definitions if they are there. I'd hazard a guess and say you probably don't need to go quite as far as defining modelines. Adding in some definitions about the monitor such as HorizSync and VertRefresh. For details on these check out the xorg.conf man page. In the spirit of sharing information, for those who don't know how to access a man page: man xorg.conf from the terminal. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 1 08:26:55 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Apr 1 08:27:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days Message-ID: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Sorry for jumping in late here, but I've also had numerous X issues in the past, and have found a pretty simple & fool-proof way of dealing with it on my own systems (assuming ATI or nVidia card; ubuntu or some Debian flavour) * Move your /etc/X11/xorg.conf to somewhere safe (I find it simpler to just start fresh in severe cases), i.e copy & then delete * Install EnvyNG/EnvyNG-GTK. This allows you to very easily install the appropriate driver; gives choice between propietay driver (I'm quite happy with this), or the proper FOSS version. You're able to run the CLI or GUI version * If all else fails, run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" Works for me. Hope this does for you too - J From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 08:33:31 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 1 08:33:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Sorry for jumping in late here, but I've also had numerous X issues in the past, and have found a pretty simple & fool-proof way of dealing with it on my own systems (assuming ATI or nVidia card; ubuntu or some Debian flavour) > > * Move your /etc/X11/xorg.conf to somewhere safe (I find it simpler to just start fresh in severe cases), i.e copy & then delete > * Install EnvyNG/EnvyNG-GTK. This allows you to very easily install the appropriate driver; gives choice between propietay driver (I'm quite happy with this), or the proper FOSS version. You're able to run the CLI or GUI version > * If all else fails, run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" > > Works for me. Hope this does for you too > > - J I'm not sure this is going to be much good in this case. Ubuntu's default is to just leave an almost empty xorg file. If the monitor isn't able to be automatically configured, then the user is going to have to add some definitions themselves. For testing purposes, it'd be cool to just add another monitor section (with a different identifier) and add substitute the "configured monitor" entry with the new monitor definition. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 08:34:17 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Apr 1 08:34:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770903311334p4576556ej7995f1e975b61c18@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/1 Jaco van der Merwe : > Sorry for jumping in late here, but I've also had numerous X issues in the past, and have found a pretty simple & fool-proof way of dealing with it on my own systems (assuming ATI or nVidia card; ubuntu or some Debian flavour) > > * Move your /etc/X11/xorg.conf to somewhere safe (I find it simpler to just start fresh in severe cases), i.e copy & then delete > * Install EnvyNG/EnvyNG-GTK. This allows you to very easily install the appropriate driver; gives choice between propietay driver (I'm quite happy with this), or the proper FOSS version. You're able to run the CLI or GUI version > * If all else fails, run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" thanks for the info, jaco. unfortunately, just to be a contrary bugger i'm using a matrox card, which has got very little support - foss or proprietary - from ubuntu, debian, or any of the main distro providers i'll bear envy in mind for when i get a new system though cheers From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 09:04:15 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 1 09:04:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > * Install EnvyNG/EnvyNG-GTK. This allows you to very easily install the appropriate driver; gives choice between propietay driver (I'm quite happy with this), or the proper FOSS version. You're able to run the CLI or GUI version I'm just wondering - what makes the FOSS version any more proper? This is that same old argument - functionality over freedom or freedom over functionality? Should we make the sacrifice? Knowing that we aren't getting the same functionality when using the FOSS version or should we accept the help offered by commercial companies? A lot of us will moan about the fact that hardware vendor support isn't as good as it could be but then when hardware vendors provide drivers, there's always a "proper" FOSS one which lacks the all of the functionality provided in the proprietary drivers. I applaud the efforts to come up with a FOSS alternative, but I for one am after functionality. If I've spent money on hardware, I want to use that hardware to it's potential. Should I feel guilty that I'm not using free drivers if free drivers are provided? From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 10:00:59 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Apr 1 10:01:08 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: References: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770903311500q12e7a12bib48b457a5930e9b2@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/1 Nevyn : > I'm just wondering - what makes the FOSS version any more proper? > > This is that same old argument - functionality over freedom or freedom > over functionality? > > Should we make the sacrifice? Knowing that we aren't getting the same > functionality when using the FOSS version or should we accept the help > offered by commercial companies? A lot of us will moan about the fact > that hardware vendor support isn't as good as it could be but then > when hardware vendors provide drivers, there's always a "proper" FOSS > one which lacks the all of the functionality provided in the > proprietary drivers. I applaud the efforts to come up with a FOSS > alternative, but I for one am after functionality. If I've spent money > on hardware, I want to use that hardware to it's potential. Should I > feel guilty that I'm not using free drivers if free drivers are > provided? cause and effect - i am a strong believer in the argument that increased functionality will come from freedom. i think this is at the root of stallman's argument, although he doesn't always articulate it particularly well e.g. his point of 'linus doesn't understand the ideological side, he just wants a better kernel' ignores *why* gpl provides a better os - the community around the kernel (and other gpl software) is a function of the freedom and openness, it can't be looked at in isolation your argument "I want to use that hardware to it's potential" glosses over an important point. if a person wants to use their hardware in a way that doesn't spy on them/prevent them from manipulating their data in ways they see fit, then a 'free' implementation of something or other may provide *increased* functionality in one respect (privacy), but decreased functionality in another (speed). although this isn't as relevant to a gfx driver as to say a web browser i.e. freedom is part of functionality, not some abstract idea that sits by itself more pixels per second is not necessarily the most important criteria for a gfx card decision, although it may appear to be at first glance - but that's more a reflection of society, and the idea that time is always critical, high speed is always better, etc. From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 11:52:38 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 1 11:52:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770903311500q12e7a12bib48b457a5930e9b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770903311500q12e7a12bib48b457a5930e9b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Robin Paulson wrote: > cause and effect - i am a strong believer in the argument that > increased functionality will come from freedom. i think this is at the > root of stallman's argument, although he doesn't always articulate it > particularly well > > e.g. his point of 'linus doesn't understand the ideological side, he > just wants a better kernel' ignores *why* gpl provides a better os - > the community around the kernel (and other gpl software) is a function > of the freedom and openness, it can't be looked at in isolation > > your argument "I want to use that hardware to it's potential" glosses > over an important point. if a person wants to use their hardware in a > way that doesn't spy on them/prevent them from manipulating their data > in ways they see fit, then a 'free' implementation of something or > other may provide *increased* functionality in one respect (privacy), > but decreased functionality in another (speed). although this isn't as > relevant to a gfx driver as to say a web browser > > i.e. freedom is part of functionality, not some abstract idea that > sits by itself > > more pixels per second is not necessarily the most important criteria > for a gfx card decision, although it may appear to be at first glance > - but that's more a reflection of society, and the idea that time is > always critical, high speed is always better, etc. Cause an effect isn't happening at a terribly fast rate though. The nv driver has been around for an awfully long time and was the only stable open source alternative though has still has very limited 3d support. (citing a lack of any sort of support from nVidia) Nouveau tries to rectify this BUT in 2007 they were working on stable 2D graphics. I don't know how far they've gotten but I've been using nVidia cards since the mid-90's. (via reverse engineering rather than anything changing in nVidia's attitude) If I go into nVidia's Linux drivers archives I can see that they've been providing Linux drivers since 2001. So in this case, purchasers of a brand spanking new nVidia card either had to live without the capabilities of the hardware, use the closed source drivers, ignoring the politics behind using a closed source driver, or wait another 5 or so years when the open source drivers may have caught up. We can agree that 3d capabilities of a 3d accelerator is one of the core functions can't we? If the opensource equivalents aren't able to provide the core functionality, but proprietary modules can, should freedom trump functionality? For the most part users just want to be able to use their computers to do things. They're less concerned with politics and more concerned with being able to do the task at hand. It'd be like saying "here's a hammer, BUT it's produced using child labour. It does it's job very well .. but there's the whole child labour thing to consider. Here's another hammer, which isn't made with child labour. It's head is made with glass though thus it's lifetime is low." Should we all go out and buy glass hammers because they're more politically correct or should we ignore politics and use what's functional? Which hammer should be considered "proper"? From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 13:51:46 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Apr 1 13:51:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: References: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770903311500q12e7a12bib48b457a5930e9b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770903311851o293a189bwe4891ceb048147f3@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/1 Nevyn : > Cause an effect isn't happening at a terribly fast rate though. The nv > driver has been around for an awfully long time and was the only > stable open source alternative though has still has very limited 3d > support. (citing a lack of any sort of support from nVidia) to play devil's advocate: it depends on your time scales. computers in general/software move at a tremendous rate. the differences even in the last few years may skew the appearance of the development FOSS drivers to appear slow, but it depends what you're comparing it to. the speed at which it happens doesn't occur in isolation, it has to be viewed in the context of its intended use > Nouveau tries to rectify this BUT in 2007 they were working on stable > 2D graphics. I don't know how far they've gotten but I've been using > nVidia cards since the mid-90's. (via reverse engineering rather than > anything changing in nVidia's attitude) > > If I go into nVidia's Linux drivers archives I can see that they've > been providing Linux drivers since 2001. So in this case, purchasers > of a brand spanking new nVidia card either had to live without the > capabilities of the hardware, use the closed source drivers, ignoring > the politics behind using a closed source driver, or wait another 5 or > so years when the open source drivers may have caught up. yep. you pays your money, you makes your choice. > We can agree that 3d capabilities of a 3d accelerator is one of the > core functions can't we? If the opensource equivalents aren't able to for some, yes. for others, no. everyone has a different set of preferences. i don't want to make generalisations for everyone, and my argument is possibly being interpreted more literally than i intended. the gfx driver case we're discussing is only one of thousands of instances of the same situation > provide the core functionality, but proprietary modules can, should > freedom trump functionality? For the most part users just want to be there's no 'should'. each to what is important to them. i'm not suggesting that i have a set of preferences that will be applicable to anyone else. if you don't mind the (in my view) potential problems with non-foss code, that's your choice > able to use their computers to do things. They're less concerned with > politics and more concerned with being able to do the task at hand. well, 'the task at hand' is just another criterion to be fulfilled in whatever you're doing. another criterion might be 'not compromise my privacy', 'not use buggy code' (e.g. the proprietary matrox drivers for my card are awful, the mixed-code proprietary/foss drivers are a lot better), or to use your example below 'not use child labour'. all the criteria can be assessed in the same way against your preferences, for each option, be it proprietary, foss or whatever and as i said, i believe the freedom aspect will produce better drivers, eventually. > It'd be like saying "here's a hammer, BUT it's produced using child > labour. It does it's job very well .. but there's the whole child > labour thing to consider. Here's another hammer, which isn't made with > child labour. It's head is made with glass though thus it's lifetime > is low." Should we all go out and buy glass hammers because they're > more politically correct or should we ignore politics and use what's > functional? Which hammer should be considered "proper"? well, that's an extreme example, as it has a hidden implication that it's not possible to produce a hammer without crapping on somebody (possibly an example of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum ) and maybe other items which are implied to be unchangeable, but: whichever one suits your needs best. if you don't care about the child labour and want a hammer that won't break when you hit a nail, go with the steel-headed, child-labour-produced hammer. if you do care, try and change how they're made, develop your own, change your pastime so you don't need a hammer, or some other alternative that fits with your preferences. From lilypatch at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 15:36:30 2009 From: lilypatch at gmail.com (David Bowen) Date: Wed Apr 1 15:36:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: what makes the FOSS version any more proper In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770903311851o293a189bwe4891ceb048147f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <651414.35254.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770903311500q12e7a12bib48b457a5930e9b2@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903311851o293a189bwe4891ceb048147f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49D2E13E.5010403@gmail.com> One other point is, the foss drivers are likely to be maintained for the current kernel versions long after the vendor has put them on the scrap heap, so if you want to use it to run something like DSL one day, it's nice to know that they will be supported, and you won't have to throw it out, or run an obsolete OS version. Robin Paulson wrote: > 2009/4/1 Nevyn : > >> Cause an effect isn't happening at a terribly fast rate though. The nv >> driver has been around for an awfully long time and was the only >> stable open source alternative though has still has very limited 3d >> support. (citing a lack of any sort of support from nVidia) >> > > to play devil's advocate: it depends on your time scales. computers in > general/software move at a tremendous rate. the differences even in > the last few years may skew the appearance of the development FOSS > drivers to appear slow, but it depends what you're comparing it to. > the speed at which it happens doesn't occur in isolation, it has to be > viewed in the context of its intended use > > >> Nouveau tries to rectify this BUT in 2007 they were working on stable >> 2D graphics. I don't know how far they've gotten but I've been using >> nVidia cards since the mid-90's. (via reverse engineering rather than >> anything changing in nVidia's attitude) >> >> If I go into nVidia's Linux drivers archives I can see that they've >> been providing Linux drivers since 2001. So in this case, purchasers >> of a brand spanking new nVidia card either had to live without the >> capabilities of the hardware, use the closed source drivers, ignoring >> the politics behind using a closed source driver, or wait another 5 or >> so years when the open source drivers may have caught up. >> > > yep. you pays your money, you makes your choice. > > >> We can agree that 3d capabilities of a 3d accelerator is one of the >> core functions can't we? If the opensource equivalents aren't able to >> > > for some, yes. for others, no. everyone has a different set of > preferences. i don't want to make generalisations for everyone, and my > argument is possibly being interpreted more literally than i intended. > the gfx driver case we're discussing is only one of thousands of > instances of the same situation > > >> provide the core functionality, but proprietary modules can, should >> freedom trump functionality? For the most part users just want to be >> > > there's no 'should'. each to what is important to them. i'm not > suggesting that i have a set of preferences that will be applicable to > anyone else. if you don't mind the (in my view) potential problems > with non-foss code, that's your choice > > >> able to use their computers to do things. They're less concerned with >> politics and more concerned with being able to do the task at hand. >> > > well, 'the task at hand' is just another criterion to be fulfilled in > whatever you're doing. another criterion might be 'not compromise my > privacy', 'not use buggy code' (e.g. the proprietary matrox drivers > for my card are awful, the mixed-code proprietary/foss drivers are a > lot better), or to use your example below 'not use child labour'. all > the criteria can be assessed in the same way against your preferences, > for each option, be it proprietary, foss or whatever > > and as i said, i believe the freedom aspect will produce better > drivers, eventually. > > >> It'd be like saying "here's a hammer, BUT it's produced using child >> labour. It does it's job very well .. but there's the whole child >> labour thing to consider. Here's another hammer, which isn't made with >> child labour. It's head is made with glass though thus it's lifetime >> is low." Should we all go out and buy glass hammers because they're >> more politically correct or should we ignore politics and use what's >> functional? Which hammer should be considered "proper"? >> > > well, that's an extreme example, as it has a hidden implication that > it's not possible to produce a hammer without crapping on somebody > (possibly an example of > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum ) and maybe other > items which are implied to be unchangeable, but: > > whichever one suits your needs best. if you don't care about the child > labour and want a hammer that won't break when you hit a nail, go with > the steel-headed, child-labour-produced hammer. if you do care, try > and change how they're made, develop your own, change your pastime so > you don't need a hammer, or some other alternative that fits with your > preferences. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 1 16:43:55 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Apr 1 16:44:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Cost of NetBook - not so cheapo Message-ID: <718499.60954.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hey guys, I'd hate to ask, but has somebody please got a Asus eeePC 701 power supply for me? Pretty please... I think (hope!) mine has dies, as I'm unable to turn my system on to check it our without a power supply. Multimeter says "0" when testing the adapter, so I hope it's that (the alternative is REALLY gonna suck). Closest I can find is a unit from DSE with aproximately the right V's but about half the A's, but it's HUGE & HEAVY & cost about twice as much as ordering a unit directly, but that's gonna take about a month to get here (yea! ain't that crazy?), and I'm hoping to scratch my "minime" for the ReleaseParty Cheers - J From blakjak at blakjak.net Wed Apr 1 17:20:22 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Wed Apr 1 17:21:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Cost of NetBook - not so cheapo In-Reply-To: <718499.60954.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <718499.60954.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: These links might help: http://www.itd.co.nz/product/i/238457.html http://www.itd.co.nz/product/i/238458/n/asus-eee-pc-adapter-for-7-9-10-black.html http://www.ascent.co.nz/category.aspx?majorCatID=43&minorCatID=193 Mark. PS: never buy a power pack with half the A's... you'll blow it up or start a fire, neither of which is a good idea :P On Wed, 1 Apr 2009, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Hey guys, I'd hate to ask, but has somebody please got a Asus eeePC 701 power supply for me? Pretty please... I think (hope!) mine has dies, as I'm unable to turn my system on to check it our without a power supply. Multimeter says "0" when testing the adapter, so I hope it's that (the alternative is REALLY gonna suck). Closest I can find is a unit from DSE with aproximately the right V's but about half the A's, but it's HUGE & HEAVY & cost about twice as much as ordering a unit directly, but that's gonna take about a month to get here (yea! ain't that crazy?), and I'm hoping to scratch my "minime" for the ReleaseParty Cheers - J > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From daniel at rimspace.net Wed Apr 1 20:23:41 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Wed Apr 1 20:24:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Cost of NetBook - not so cheapo In-Reply-To: <718499.60954.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Wed, 1 Apr 2009 04:43:55 +0000 (GMT)") References: <718499.60954.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87bprgzss2.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: > I'd hate to ask, but has somebody please got a Asus eeePC 701 power > supply for me? Pretty please... I think (hope!) mine has dies, as I'm > unable to turn my system on to check it our without a power supply. > Multimeter says "0" when testing the adapter, so I hope it's that (the > alternative is REALLY gonna suck). I know it is the "did you plug it in" question, but just in case you did what I occasionally do... is the system still under warranty? Regards, Daniel From thetoolman at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 20:32:16 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Wed Apr 1 20:32:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Cost of NetBook - not so cheapo In-Reply-To: <718499.60954.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <718499.60954.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You could be cheeky and take it into a retailer that has one on display (harvy norman, DSE etc.) , see if they will let you test :) 2009/4/1 Jaco van der Merwe : > Hey guys, > > I'd hate to ask, but has somebody please got a Asus eeePC 701 power supply for me? Pretty please... > I think (hope!) mine has dies, as I'm unable to turn my system on to check it our without a power supply. > Multimeter says "0" when testing the adapter, so I hope it's that (the alternative is REALLY gonna suck). > > Closest I can find is a unit from DSE with aproximately the right V's but about half the A's, but it's HUGE & HEAVY & cost about twice as much as ordering a unit directly, but that's gonna take about a month to get here (yea! ain't that crazy?), and I'm hoping to scratch my "minime" for the ReleaseParty > > Cheers > > - J > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 09:03:33 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Thu Apr 2 09:03:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Newbie Help Please Message-ID: <5b6001920904011403j48006dcq4a0a634c4342ceaf@mail.gmail.com> Newbie Help Please : Decided to look over the KDE Desktop. Currently I'm on Ubuntu 8.04.2 using Gnome with KDE loaded. So I disabled my auto login to get the login screen and the availibilty of F10 to make the change. Result, got a login screen so big that only the logo and u of ubuntu showed. Flying totally blind I managed to login and reset auto login. Should I use another server set up as Kubuntu or has anyone got any other ideas to make changeover menu available? http://www.watchingthenet.com/switch-between-gnome-and-kde-desktops-in-ubuntu-or-kubuntu.html Kevin Adams From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 2 09:09:55 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Apr 2 09:10:13 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Cost of NetBook - not so cheapo Message-ID: <271897.83490.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Thanks for the advise, guys. I'll try those links. I'll have to try some of the retailers on Queen St., since the shops in Newmarket don't carry 701 or 701-compatible stock any more. Just makes me wonder how cost-effective these "low-cost" devices are, if some replacement part are almost more expensive than the devices themselves? Cheers From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 09:26:37 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Apr 2 09:26:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Cost of NetBook - not so cheapo In-Reply-To: <271897.83490.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <271897.83490.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Thanks for the advise, guys. I'll try those links. > I'll have to try some of the retailers on Queen St., since the shops in Newmarket don't carry 701 or 701-compatible stock any more. > > Just makes me wonder how cost-effective these "low-cost" devices are, if some replacement part are almost more expensive than the devices themselves? > > Cheers That's the reason why I haven't gone and gotten one yet. Bar the 701, the netbooks are priced about the same as a full sized laptop and while I appreciate cool factor and portability of Netbooks, I'm not sure I'm willing to spend the same amount on a device which is less powerful, has a smaller screen size etc. than a it's bigger equivalent. From thetoolman at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 10:08:33 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Thu Apr 2 10:08:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Newbie Help Please In-Reply-To: <5b6001920904011403j48006dcq4a0a634c4342ceaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b6001920904011403j48006dcq4a0a634c4342ceaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Why is the screen not showing the fields: has the resolution dropped too low, or is it something else? If the problem is just that kde has replaced gone for your login, you can switch back: sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm Or to go back to the KDE login sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm Hope this helps. Toolman 2009/4/2 Kevin Adams : > Newbie Help Please : Decided to look over the KDE Desktop. Currently I'm on > Ubuntu 8.04.2 using Gnome with KDE loaded. So I disabled my auto login to > get the login screen and the availibilty of F10 to make the change. Result, > got a login screen so big that only the logo and u of ubuntu showed. Flying > totally blind I managed to login and reset auto login. > > Should I use another server set up as Kubuntu or has anyone got any other > ideas to make changeover menu available? > > http://www.watchingthenet.com/switch-between-gnome-and-kde-desktops-in-ubuntu-or-kubuntu.html > > > ?Kevin Adams > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 10:25:46 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Thu Apr 2 10:25:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Newbie Help Please In-Reply-To: References: <5b6001920904011403j48006dcq4a0a634c4342ceaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920904011525x75445c6bj88a15d619899199b@mail.gmail.com> Tried a second server, got a smaller football field but was able to see and change Desktop. Yes Tim in both cases resolution dropped too low but not too low in second try. Kevin 2009/4/2 Tim Toolman > Why is the screen not showing the fields: has the resolution dropped > too low, or is it something else? > > If the problem is just that kde has replaced gone for your login, you > can switch back: > > sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm > > Or to go back to the KDE login > > sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm > > Hope this helps. > > Toolman > > 2009/4/2 Kevin Adams : > > Newbie Help Please : Decided to look over the KDE Desktop. Currently I'm > on > > Ubuntu 8.04.2 using Gnome with KDE loaded. So I disabled my auto login to > > get the login screen and the availibilty of F10 to make the change. > Result, > > got a login screen so big that only the logo and u of ubuntu showed. > Flying > > totally blind I managed to login and reset auto login. > > > > Should I use another server set up as Kubuntu or has anyone got any other > > ideas to make changeover menu available? > > > > > http://www.watchingthenet.com/switch-between-gnome-and-kde-desktops-in-ubuntu-or-kubuntu.html > > > > > > Kevin Adams > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > > > -- > Tim Taylor > +64 21 0541287 > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From daniel at rimspace.net Thu Apr 2 11:25:49 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Thu Apr 2 11:26:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Cost of NetBook - not so cheapo In-Reply-To: <271897.83490.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:09:55 +0000 (GMT)") References: <271897.83490.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87wsa4hs76.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: > Thanks for the advise, guys. I'll try those links. I'll have to try > some of the retailers on Queen St., since the shops in Newmarket don't > carry 701 or 701-compatible stock any more. > > Just makes me wonder how cost-effective these "low-cost" devices are, > if some replacement part are almost more expensive than the devices > themselves? Welcome to the future, in which your inkjet printer ^W^W laptop costs less to buy new than it does to buy new ink. ;) Regards, Daniel From robin.paulson at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 20:09:22 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Thu Apr 2 20:09:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770903291753x2b703cedkf61e121e79664dec@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903292207x18f5fd46t1b7709284fbe28b9@mail.gmail.com> <49D06A2A.9080708@slingshot.co.nz> <2f3aa2770903300047m5984367rd62f962e28d88aab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904020109s50b64f7ehede7e34d3db3b73c@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/31 Martin D Kealey >> iirc, i added the "1280x1024" section at the bottom - that's the >> resolution i'm aiming for > > Tip: the things on the "Modes" line are simply labels that refer to > definitions elsewhere. > > The obvious (though mildly surprising) conclusion is that there's no > built-in definition for the label "1280x1024". > > So the solution is probably to add one. right, that sounds like it makes sense. i've had a look through the man page for xorg.conf, and added a few more bits, including the horizsync and vertrefresh (although i'm not sure if i need these - the screen is working now, without them defined anywhere?), but i'm stuck on how to populate the modes section. any suggestions? cheers ###################### Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Configured Monitor" HorizSync 77.17 VertRefresh 72.56 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Monitor "Configured Monitor" Device "Configured Video Device" DefaultDepth 16 SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1280x1024" EndSubSection Section "Modes" Identifier "1280x1024" EndSection ############################ From swht at clear.net.nz Fri Apr 3 10:44:22 2009 From: swht at clear.net.nz (simon) Date: Fri Apr 3 10:44:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] a diagnostic to show fault with blog editor? Message-ID: <49D53FC6.5080801@clear.net.nz> Dear Auckluggites, Is there a diagnostic to show where the problem is occurring between ScribeFire (a Mozilla add-on in Firefox) and Wordpress? which problem is that ScribeFire will not log in to www.squarewhiteworld.com using what I know to be the correct password and username. any help appreciated Best, Simon From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 11:09:28 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Apr 3 11:09:37 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] a diagnostic to show fault with blog editor? In-Reply-To: <49D53FC6.5080801@clear.net.nz> References: <49D53FC6.5080801@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:44 AM, simon wrote: > Dear Auckluggites, > > Is there a diagnostic to show where the problem is occurring between > ScribeFire (a Mozilla add-on in Firefox) and Wordpress? which problem is > that ScribeFire will not log in to www.squarewhiteworld.com using what I > know to be the correct password and username. > > any help appreciated > > Best, > Simon >From this page here: http://code.google.com/p/scribefire/issues/detail?id=270 Suggests that .htaccess might be an issue. It suggests putting this in: It is likely an issue with your .htaccess file. Add this to it and see if your file can be accessed via the browser. SecFilterInheritance Off Also suggests that checking to make sure this file isn't corrupt is a good idea: xmlrpc.php Regards, Nevyn. From daniel at rimspace.net Fri Apr 3 11:22:29 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Fri Apr 3 11:22:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] a diagnostic to show fault with blog editor? In-Reply-To: <49D53FC6.5080801@clear.net.nz> (simon's message of "Fri, 03 Apr 2009 11:44:22 +1300") References: <49D53FC6.5080801@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <87skkqtzd6.fsf@rimspace.net> simon writes: > Is there a diagnostic to show where the problem is occurring between > ScribeFire (a Mozilla add-on in Firefox) and Wordpress? If you can, inspect the web server error logs and see what is recorded there. Typically errors will be given in significantly more detail in the server-side logs. Failing that, you could use ngrep to capture the HTTP communication between the two systems and see if that gave any clues. Regards, Daniel From swht at clear.net.nz Fri Apr 3 13:50:47 2009 From: swht at clear.net.nz (simon) Date: Fri Apr 3 13:50:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] a diagnostic to show fault with blog editor? In-Reply-To: References: <49D53FC6.5080801@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <49D56B77.10100@clear.net.nz> error console shows a syntax error but the hyperlink - which I'm presuming gives a full description - doesn't take my browser to it. The error is listed as javascript:%20.htaccess following the hyperlink gives: Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80070057 (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE) [nsIWebNavigation.loadURI]" nsresult: "0x80070057 (NS_ERROR_ILLEGAL_VALUE)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://global/content/viewSource.js :: viewSource :: line 156" data: no] here's a stupid question: how do I get into my .htaccess file in WP? With the old WP I knew where to find it in the theme editor.... but now, I don't see it. Simon From swht at clear.net.nz Fri Apr 3 15:08:23 2009 From: swht at clear.net.nz (simon) Date: Fri Apr 3 15:09:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] a diagnostic to show fault with blog editor? In-Reply-To: <87skkqtzd6.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <49D53FC6.5080801@clear.net.nz> <87skkqtzd6.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <49D57DA7.2000405@clear.net.nz> .htaccess file rewrite: RewriteEngine On RewriteBase / RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} ^/(stats|failed_auth\.html)/?(.*)$ [NC] RewriteRule ^.*$ - [L] SecFilterInheritance Off # BEGIN WordPress RewriteEngine On RewriteBase / RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d RewriteRule . /index.php [L] ScribeFire remains inoperative. A friend has found the same problem with different servers and blogs. I've gone back as far as ScribeFire 2.2 - which seems to be the earliest compatible with Firefox 3.0.8 - and received the same login error. Odd. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 21:19:37 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Sat Apr 4 21:19:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: References: <2f3aa2770903301334m22ab00fakb222d609ff3c3cd7@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301406j6aaa8892te7cc235ca117535f@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301433k1e0a7412u427fb85db973b400@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920903301439v7e7a085cudda150ae17499213@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301456u66edab7fgdc183cf46cadfd69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904040219i13191fe8me85293615915ef5d@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/31 Nevyn : > If in doubt, you could always boot into an older live distro and see > what they come up with for an xorg.conf. Copy the contents of that > somewhere and see if it'll work with your distribution. excellent, got it. after much messing around trying to understand modelines, i went for the easy option..... thanks nevyn From josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz Sun Apr 5 21:18:35 2009 From: josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz (JHB) Date: Sun Apr 5 21:21:12 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] replacing ms Message-ID: <49D8776B.3040204@yahoo.co.nz> Hi, I have long been writing databases in ms Access for my own use. After ms made changes to the latest ms Access without their updating the help files and I dropped it. I am wondering how to do something in Linux. I tried open office base - I can make a database,and custom report but little success with the forms. google seems to have too high a noise ratio. help files/wiki/official docs are often blank or out of date for OOo. Combo boxes do not pre guess what is typed. List boxes are mildly usable. Some sites say - OOo is not there yet. have toyed with sqlite and python in the past. I am looking for something to get up and running, and learn/improve on over time. While this particular task[1] could be a spread sheet, i am looking for data entry with a gui with autocomplete combo box, and some method of outputting different layouts for printing. Any suggestions/pointers where to start at/tutorials etc reading for relatively quick development? JB 1. I want to print on a pre formatted slip of paper a volunteers name, their assignment, which of 3 sites to go to, and some info about what they will need. I have a list of volunteers, sites, and common jobs. I want save on typing, and be sure names are correct. From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 6 00:20:48 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 6 00:21:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] replacing ms In-Reply-To: <49D8776B.3040204@yahoo.co.nz> (JHB's message of "Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:18:35 +1200") References: <49D8776B.3040204@yahoo.co.nz> Message-ID: <87prfr47hb.fsf@rimspace.net> JHB writes: > I have long been writing databases in ms Access for my own use. After > ms made changes to the latest ms Access without their updating the > help files and I dropped it. Just for personal use, or distributed to the web or other users also? > I am wondering how to do something in Linux. I tried open office base > - I can make a database,and custom report but little success with the > forms. google seems to have too high a noise ratio. help > files/wiki/official docs are often blank or out of date for OOo. > Combo boxes do not pre guess what is typed. List boxes are mildly > usable. Some sites say - OOo is not there yet. have toyed with sqlite > and python in the past. > > I am looking for something to get up and running, and learn/improve on > over time. While this particular task[1] could be a spread sheet, i am > looking for data entry with a gui with autocomplete combo box, and > some method of outputting different layouts for printing. Well, kexi[1] (from koffice) and rekall[2] both aim at that market. In a slightly different vein, Gambas is a Visual Basic style system that provides the same sort of tools: visual form design, basic language, but also includes good database integration. You may find it practical to develop in that rather than in a database focused application. Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] This also supports MDB files, making migration even easier, although I have never used this facility. [2] This used to be packaged in Debian, but seems to have dropped out; their web version never quite made it, unfortunately. From josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz Mon Apr 6 07:09:58 2009 From: josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz (JHB) Date: Mon Apr 6 07:12:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] replacing ms In-Reply-To: <87prfr47hb.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <49D8776B.3040204@yahoo.co.nz> <87prfr47hb.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <49D90206.7020905@yahoo.co.nz> Daniel Pittman wrote: > JHB writes: > > >> I have long been writing databases in ms Access for my own use. After >> ms made changes to the latest ms Access without their updating the >> help files and I dropped it. >> > > Just for personal use, or distributed to the web or other users also? > > Mainly for my own use, but sometimes if someone sees it saving time they want to use it too, so I would use innosetup to package it. >> I am wondering how to do something in Linux. snip >> >> I am looking for something to get up and running, and learn/improve on >> over time. While this particular task[1] could be a spread sheet, i am >> looking for data entry with a gui with autocomplete combo box, and >> some method of outputting different layouts for printing. >> > > Well, kexi[1] (from koffice) and rekall[2] both aim at that market. > > In a slightly different vein, Gambas is a Visual Basic style system that > provides the same sort of tools: visual form design, basic language, but > also includes good database integration. > > You may find it practical to develop in that rather than in a database > focused application. > > thanks - will read up & try them tonight. I am happy to start from scratch. ms saving money by not updating access help files but charging like a wounded bull was just a bit much. Straw, camels back and all that. :-) > Regards, > Daniel > > Footnotes: > [1] This also supports MDB files, making migration even easier, > although I have never used this facility. > > [2] This used to be packaged in Debian, but seems to have dropped out; > their web version never quite made it, unfortunately. > > > jb From ajchapman at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 07:45:15 2009 From: ajchapman at gmail.com (Anthony Chapman) Date: Mon Apr 6 07:45:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2faa0aee0904051245l3197cb00q6db7ceda7e62cb2@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/30 Martin Kealey : > An indication of numbers would be appreciated; if you let me know in advance > I can arrange for your name-tag to be pre-printed. I'll be there, and thank you for organising this. From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 08:26:55 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Apr 6 08:27:06 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Configuring Xorg - Was: Reminder: AuckLUG monthly meeting in 7 days In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904040219i13191fe8me85293615915ef5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770903301334m22ab00fakb222d609ff3c3cd7@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301406j6aaa8892te7cc235ca117535f@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301433k1e0a7412u427fb85db973b400@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920903301439v7e7a085cudda150ae17499213@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770903301456u66edab7fgdc183cf46cadfd69@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904040219i13191fe8me85293615915ef5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: > 2009/3/31 Nevyn : >> If in doubt, you could always boot into an older live distro and see >> what they come up with for an xorg.conf. Copy the contents of that >> somewhere and see if it'll work with your distribution. > > excellent, got it. after much messing around trying to understand > modelines, i went for the easy option..... > > thanks nevyn No worries - truth be told - this was all an excercise to test whether I know something ;) From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 6 09:46:22 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Apr 6 09:46:32 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Jaunty Jackalope Release Party Message-ID: <941419.7580.qm@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Preliminary event posted to FB: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=93218162393 Trying to figure out how to post to launchpad page, but will post info once that's done. In the mean time, feel free to pass on the ubutnu - Jaco From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 6 12:01:36 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Apr 6 12:01:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] AuckLUG @ VNue? Message-ID: <12418.32273.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Are we still on for tonight's meet? Same place, same time? - J From Martin.Kealey at vodafone.com Mon Apr 6 12:49:41 2009 From: Martin.Kealey at vodafone.com (Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ) Date: Mon Apr 6 13:02:21 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Auckland Linux Users' Group meeting tonight Message-ID: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F0592D2B4@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> The Auckland Linux Users' group meets on the first business Monday of each month at the Vodafone building: "V.nue", 20 Viaduct Harbour Avenue, Downtown Auckland. This month there will be a presentation by Vik Olliver on "RepRap", a build-it-yourself 3-D printer. Progress on the RepRap has been good over the last few years, and it is nearing its original goal of being "self replicating" in that it can be used to fabricate parts for another RepRap. (Some hand-assembly required.) A second stream will be available with hands-on help with any specific Linux issues you may have. Lots of parking available in adjacent Halsey St from 6pm. If arriving before 6:45 please gather at "Subway" (200 m east along Fanshaw St) as I will there getting my dinner and not letting people into the building. Meeting starts 7:00 pm. -Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you seen our website?.... http://www.vodafone.co.nz Manage Your Account, check your Vodafone Mail and send web2TXT online: http://www.vodafone.co.nz/myvodafone CAUTION: This correspondence is confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the named recipient and receive this correspondence in error, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it and you should delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. Unless otherwise stated, any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent those of Vodafone New Zealand Limited. Vodafone New Zealand Limited 20 Viaduct Harbour Avenue, Private Bag 92161, Auckland 1030 Telephone + 64 9 355 2000 Facsimile + 64 9 355 2001 From daler263 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 6 13:12:08 2009 From: daler263 at yahoo.com (Dale Roberts) Date: Mon Apr 6 13:12:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Would this affect $1.5Bn Rollout ... Legislation .. something to consider in private Message-ID: <754924.91731.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Despite NZ govt putting legislation on hold re: copyright infringement, overseas the NET effect has seen a drop in traffic. Long ago it was the drive to improve Graphics that assisted PC development for graphics manipulation [Adult themes here] replaced over time by online virtually scenarios and gaming. In more recent times it has been the need for more information and High data transfers of data content to drive Rollouts of Broadband facilities and Fibreoptic networks where population density supported the need for that infrastructure. Would the once proposed NZ Copyright Infringement legislation, put on hold in its current form, have contributed to similar effects reported to legislation enacted recently in Sweden ? Please read and consider. Discussion at the ALUG meeting is suggested forum for response. http://www.3news.co.nz/Net-traffic-in-Sweden-drops-40-percent-following-copyright-legislation/tabid/412/articleID/98498/cat/73/Default.aspx From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Mon Apr 6 13:22:49 2009 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Josh Martens) Date: Mon Apr 6 13:23:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Would this affect $1.5Bn Rollout ... Legislation .. something to consider in private In-Reply-To: <754924.91731.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <754924.91731.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1238980969.6282.8.camel@studypad> > > Would the once proposed NZ Copyright Infringement legislation, put on > hold in its current form, have contributed to similar effects > reported to legislation enacted recently in Sweden ? > Apparently the legislation in Sweden has lead to VPN services there being overloaded. :-) From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Apr 6 13:30:32 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Apr 6 13:30:41 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Would this affect $1.5Bn Rollout ... Legislation .. something to consider in private In-Reply-To: <754924.91731.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <754924.91731.qm@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Apr 2009, Dale Roberts wrote: > Please read and consider. > Discussion at the ALUG meeting is suggested forum for response. > What is this 'ALUG' you speak of? We are AuckLUG. :-) And I note the limited relevance to the Linux community. I welcome in-person discussion but would concur with keeping the discussion off-list. Mark. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 13:51:14 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Apr 6 13:51:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] acer aspire one vs. asus eee Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> i'm looking for a small laptop - has anyone here had any good or bad experiences with running linux (a decent distro, not the linpus lite thing that comes with it) on an acer aspire one? my choice at the moment is between one of those (the a110x model), and an asus eee 900a any recommendations? or any experiences with acer at all? cheers From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 6 14:22:59 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 6 14:23:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> (Robin Paulson's message of "Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:51:14 +1200") References: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <873acm34ho.fsf@rimspace.net> Robin Paulson writes: > i'm looking for a small laptop - has anyone here had any good or bad > experiences with running linux (a decent distro, not the linpus lite > thing that comes with it) on an acer aspire one? my choice at the > moment is between one of those (the a110x model), and an asus eee 900a > > any recommendations? or any experiences with acer at all? Sure, albeit not directly: I have helped a colleague here work with the Aspire One, and another with the EeePC, and am aware of some of the limitations. Both work reasonably, both with the default OS and with Ubuntu, and presumably with other stock distributions. The biggest is that both of them suck WRT the SSD ? random write performance is absolutely awful, so things are not terrible fast. Apparently the default OS load isn't too bad, running Ubuntu on them is notably slower, but they are generally satisfactory. Personally, I am waiting for the next generation of the devices before I start to seriously consider anything with an SSD inside, in the hope that the next round perform more like an Intel SSD. Did you have any specific questions? Regards, Daniel From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 14:38:47 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Apr 6 14:38:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <873acm34ho.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> <873acm34ho.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904051938h497bbb07i2eeb396380d1325f@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/6 Daniel Pittman : > The biggest is that both of them suck WRT the SSD ? random write > performance is absolutely awful, so things are not terrible fast. oh, i didn't realise that > Apparently the default OS load isn't too bad, running Ubuntu on them is > notably slower, but they are generally satisfactory. yeah, i'd expect that - i guess the drivers haven't been committed upstream yet, to go in every distro plus, gnome is fat. i was thinking of going with lxde > Personally, I am waiting for the next generation of the devices before > I start to seriously consider anything with an SSD inside, in the hope > that the next round perform more like an Intel SSD. > > Did you have any specific questions? i'm after opinions on anything that affects usability, like: system speed doing simple tasks like web-browsing and editing OO.o documents realistic read/write speeds for the ssd and sd card support for the custom bits of software boot time strurdiness of the case/chassis realistic battery life screen readabliity/sharpness etc. From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 6 15:03:19 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 6 15:03:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904051938h497bbb07i2eeb396380d1325f@mail.gmail.com> (Robin Paulson's message of "Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:38:47 +1200") References: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> <873acm34ho.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904051938h497bbb07i2eeb396380d1325f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87iqli1o20.fsf@rimspace.net> Robin Paulson writes: > 2009/4/6 Daniel Pittman : >> The biggest is that both of them suck WRT the SSD ? random write >> performance is absolutely awful, so things are not terrible fast. > > oh, i didn't realise that *nod* I don't think any of them are quite the "tens of random writes per second" level that Linus ranted about, but they are certainly very, very slow because of the block rewrite penalties. >> Apparently the default OS load isn't too bad, running Ubuntu on them is >> notably slower, but they are generally satisfactory. > > yeah, i'd expect that - i guess the drivers haven't been committed > upstream yet, to go in every distro We never found a satisfactory explanation, but it doesn't appear to be driver related. > plus, gnome is fat. i was thinking of going with lxde In a gig of RAM? Your analysis is off target: the memory consumption wasn't related to the performance issues, I fear to say. >> Personally, I am waiting for the next generation of the devices before >> I start to seriously consider anything with an SSD inside, in the hope >> that the next round perform more like an Intel SSD. >> >> Did you have any specific questions? > > i'm after opinions on anything that affects usability, like: > system speed doing simple tasks like web-browsing and editing OO.o > documents Usable, but you don't want to start and stop the software often. > realistic read/write speeds for the ssd and sd card Awful writes, reasonable reads, in both cases, but do you really care about that? In other words, are you actually going to have a write-heavy workload? > support for the custom bits of software Fine with the non-stock OS, OK with the stock version. > boot time > strurdiness of the case/chassis Both tollerable. IIRC the judgement was that the Aspire One was a touch nicer, hardware-wise, but not really much to distinguish. > realistic battery life They all sucked. > screen readabliity/sharpness Fairly reasonable. Certainly, no problems inside the office, and they reportedly do OK in random locations. Regards, Daniel From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 15:22:45 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Apr 6 15:22:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <87iqli1o20.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> <873acm34ho.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904051938h497bbb07i2eeb396380d1325f@mail.gmail.com> <87iqli1o20.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Daniel Pittman wrote: > Robin Paulson writes: >> 2009/4/6 Daniel Pittman : >>> The biggest is that both of them suck WRT the SSD ? random write >>> performance is absolutely awful, so things are not terrible fast. >> >> oh, i didn't realise that > > *nod* ?I don't think any of them are quite the "tens of random writes > per second" level that Linus ranted about, but they are certainly very, > very slow because of the block rewrite penalties. That explains it! While not related to Linux: I'm working on HP Mini's at work and was finding that I was having to wait around 90 seconds to save an excel worksheet. I couldn't figure it out. Put in a thumb drive and performance was loads better saving to the thumb drive. Unfortunately this solution wasn't suitable for the application at hand so I ended up installing a RAM drive and saving to that then copying the file to it's destination. Absolutely horrid issue. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 6 15:30:29 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Apr 6 15:30:37 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee Message-ID: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Try to get a system that does not have a physical platter HDD; these suck up a lot of juice, and you run the risk of crashing heads if your drop or otherwise shock the hardware (which you're likely to do). If you go for a fully flash-based system, turn of swap, and reduce writes, since flash has limited write, and you could cook the flash. I keep my "/home" partition (the only stuff I really need to keep) on the SD-Flash card (the Asus 701 has a slot for this) . That way, if you cook you machine somehow, recovery's a lot simplified & you have access to it if you boot of a liveUSB. I have an external USB HDD (notebook HDD) for big data. Get RAM. LOTS of RAM. You can make up a lot of the lightweight spec with more RAM (my eee 701 has 1GB, and it pretty awesome) Thers a good review/comparison on Tectonic : http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=3860 (think ars, wires, cnet or thereg had a review a few months ago too) Consider replacement parts too: I've finally located a supplier able to provide me with a replacement power-supply @ $50. Cheap could work you out costly in the long run... Custom netbook distros: http://www.eeebuntu.org/ (not just for the eee) http://opengeu.intilinux.com/ (VERY pretty E17, has a netbook installer) (many more others out there) I limit my activities to media, surfing, shell, voip, and leave the grunt-work on my heftier machines & terminal/VNC/"ssh -XC" in. That way my netbook is little more than a glorified thin client - J From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 6 15:43:59 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 6 15:44:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Jaco van der Merwe's message of "Mon, 6 Apr 2009 03:30:29 +0000 (GMT)") References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <874ox21m68.fsf@rimspace.net> Jaco van der Merwe writes: > Try to get a system that does not have a physical platter HDD; these > suck up a lot of juice, and you run the risk of crashing heads if your > drop or otherwise shock the hardware (which you're likely to do). Well, this isn't substantially different to any other laptop... > If you go for a fully flash-based system, turn of swap, and reduce > writes, since flash has limited write, and you could cook the flash. It is extremely unlikely that you will "cook" the flash[1] in anything but the most pathological of situations ? both SD[2] and the internal SSD storage do internal wear levelling that is sufficient to render this a moot point. [...] > Get RAM. LOTS of RAM. You can make up a lot of the lightweight spec > with more RAM (my eee 701 has 1GB, and it pretty awesome) IIRC, none of these machines ? definitely, none that run Windows in some revision ? can accept more than 1GB of RAM due to the OEM agreement with Microsoft that allows them to be sold with Windows XP. Getting the 1GB in place, though, is well worth it, as Jaco says. Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] I am assuming that by "cook" you mean "exceed the write cycle count, resulting in failing blocks of the flash device." [2] This depends on the SD card manufacturer, but anything that comes formatted FAT either does solid wear levelling, or wouldn't last long in any standard CE device taking SD cards. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 15:53:23 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Apr 6 15:53:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <87iqli1o20.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> <873acm34ho.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904051938h497bbb07i2eeb396380d1325f@mail.gmail.com> <87iqli1o20.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904052053u1bb9ec6eqd4f0099f120037a7@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/6 Daniel Pittman : > We never found a satisfactory explanation, but it doesn't appear to be > driver related. > >> plus, gnome is fat. i was thinking of going with lxde > > In a gig of RAM? ?Your analysis is off target: the memory consumption > wasn't related to the performance issues, I fear to say. very true, i guess fat wasn't the word i was looking for - there have to be clock-cycle savings with lxde over gnome/kde? >>> Personally, I am waiting for the next generation of the devices before >>> I start to seriously consider anything with an SSD inside, in the hope >>> that the next round perform more like an Intel SSD. yeah, i'd love to wait - tomorrow's always the best time to buy new technology... >> i'm after opinions on anything that affects usability, like: >> system speed doing simple tasks like web-browsing and editing OO.o >> documents > > Usable, but you don't want to start and stop the software often. shouldn't be a problem > Awful writes, reasonable reads, in both cases, but do you really care > about that? ?In other words, are you actually going to have a > write-heavy workload? not really, curious was all >> support for the custom bits of software > > Fine with the non-stock OS, OK with the stock version. yeah, i didn't think these custom, tiny market OSs would be kept well up-to-date >> boot time >> strurdiness of the case/chassis > > Both tollerable. ?IIRC the judgement was that the Aspire One was a touch > nicer, hardware-wise, but not really much to distinguish. > >> realistic battery life > > They all sucked. that's not good - i saw a quote of 7 hours for the acer >> screen readabliity/sharpness > > Fairly reasonable. ?Certainly, no problems inside the office, and they > reportedly do OK in random locations. cool, cheers daniel From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 15:56:49 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Apr 6 15:56:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <874ox21m68.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <874ox21m68.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904052056k7b4097b5p561462d0ad83527@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/6 Daniel Pittman : >> Get RAM. LOTS of RAM. ?You can make up a lot of the lightweight spec >> with more RAM (my eee 701 has 1GB, and it pretty awesome) > > IIRC, none of these machines ? definitely, none that run Windows in some > revision ? can accept more than 1GB of RAM due to the OEM agreement with > Microsoft that allows them to be sold with Windows XP. > > Getting the 1GB in place, though, is well worth it, as Jaco says. according to wp, the acer will accept up to 2GB before the POST fails. but 1gb is enough for what i want the acer is winning the battle for my money at the moment From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 16:05:51 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Apr 6 16:06:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904052105k12159706y7bf03363d4c4e95c@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/6 Jaco van der Merwe : > Custom netbook distros: > http://www.eeebuntu.org/ (not just for the eee) > http://opengeu.intilinux.com/ (VERY pretty E17, has a netbook installer) > (many more others out there) > right, now i've got the hardware nearly sorted - what's your distro of choice? eeebuntu doesn't support the acer, and i guess the mainstream distros will will be hit-and-miss too, or is the hardware generic enough? From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Apr 6 16:11:11 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Apr 6 16:11:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Try to get a system that does not have a physical platter HDD; these suck up a lot of juice, and you run the risk of crashing heads if your drop or otherwise shock the hardware (which you're likely to do). If you go for a fully flash-based system, turn of swap, and reduce writes, since flash has limited write, and you could cook the flash. Should point out that associated with the above; conventional IDE type hard drives (with platters) tend to be much bigger and don't suffer from the same sorts of limitations around write-cycles that solid state disks do. They do consume more power and are more physically fragile than SSD's when being written. Hard disks are generally rated to several hundred G's of impact, so at rest the risk is greatly minimised... though care is obviously required :-) Mark. From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 6 16:24:26 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 6 16:24:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904052053u1bb9ec6eqd4f0099f120037a7@mail.gmail.com> (Robin Paulson's message of "Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:53:23 +1200") References: <2f3aa2770904051851q4c80d42cr9ac1493278977e52@mail.gmail.com> <873acm34ho.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904051938h497bbb07i2eeb396380d1325f@mail.gmail.com> <87iqli1o20.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904052053u1bb9ec6eqd4f0099f120037a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87zleuz9xh.fsf@rimspace.net> Robin Paulson writes: > 2009/4/6 Daniel Pittman : >> We never found a satisfactory explanation, but it doesn't appear to be >> driver related. >> >>> plus, gnome is fat. i was thinking of going with lxde >> >> In a gig of RAM? ?Your analysis is off target: the memory consumption >> wasn't related to the performance issues, I fear to say. > > very true, i guess fat wasn't the word i was looking for - there have > to be clock-cycle savings with lxde over gnome/kde? I don't see why. They seem to use many of the same technologies as GNOME, and they neglect some of the power saving improvements the later has added including using a compositing window manager. I know that their goal is to use less resources, but they provide no evidence of actually succeeding at that goal. Certainly, none of their limited set of claims published on the site stands up to much scrutiny, as I know that KDE 3.5.9 runs as well as their environment on similar hardware, and GNOME and KDE have a similar resource footprint. So, there certainly might be savings there, but I confess I don't see where they come from other than, perhaps, out of the box configuration. On the gripping hand, I don't have the resources to really bench-test their environment vs KDE or GNOME at present, so I can't supply the required figures myself ... which means I can't say that I am right, either. >>>> Personally, I am waiting for the next generation of the devices before >>>> I start to seriously consider anything with an SSD inside, in the hope >>>> that the next round perform more like an Intel SSD. > > yeah, i'd love to wait - tomorrow's always the best time to buy new > technology... Well, given how SSD storage is taking over the (laptop) world I expect it to be a relatively short step to something that performs better: Sandisk have pre-announced their own internal storage improvements and all. ...but, yeah, if you absolutely have to have something now, go for it. I would wait if I could, since six to twelve months should bring substantial improvements in value for money, but YM (and budget) MV, obviously. :) [...] >>> realistic battery life >> They all sucked. > > that's not good - i saw a quote of 7 hours for the acer Ah. A tiny bit of research later, and I know why: You can obtain a 6-cell battery for the Aspire One, replacing the 3-cell model that we had here. You might, indeed, get 7 hours with that ? and you will certainly get closer than you would with the relatively tiny EeePC batteries. Beyond that, though, all the current line have pretty much the same hardware, so battery life is dominated by the size of the battery. More MAh, more life. :) FWIW, I would consider investing in an external battery pack like this if long life away from a power point was interesting: http://www.global-batteries.com.au/product_info.php/products_id/1329 Regards, Daniel From josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz Mon Apr 6 23:49:59 2009 From: josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz (JHB) Date: Mon Apr 6 23:52:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] replacing ms access In-Reply-To: <87prfr47hb.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <49D8776B.3040204@yahoo.co.nz> <87prfr47hb.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <49D9EC67.1070609@yahoo.co.nz> Daniel Pittman wrote: > JHB writes: > snip >> I am looking for something to get up and running, and learn/improve on >> over time. While this particular task[1] could be a spread sheet, i am >> looking for data entry with a gui with autocomplete combo box, and >> some method of outputting different layouts for printing. >> > Well, kexi[1] (from koffice) and rekall[2] both aim at that market. > I have oft seen on the net someone ask about software and no reply of how it went. So just in case someone else is wondering bout replacing access (probably not ). kexi 1.1.3 looks interesting. I looked at it a very long time ago and I do not recognise it now. different to access - but easy to use. rather quick putting my small example together. Regretably In fedora 10 it tends to crash when 'designing' forms. Combo boxes cause quite a few crashes. Docs are very poor, but then again I have 'gifted' ms good money for bad docs and kexi is a free download. Coming from access, it seems mostly quite intuitive and user friendly. combo boxes seems to be set during the table creation which is different. didn't check what could be done with queries as it is not quite there yet, but for someone coming from access it has potential. i generally liked it and will look at it again. Rekall - looks clunky. clunky is fine if it works, but I seem unable to access, open or create a database. perhaps fedora package is missing something. Missing buttons and text on the menus. Not encouraging, but unable to form a definite opinion. Not really interested trying to test Rekall further at this stage, with another to test and limited time. > In a slightly different vein, Gambas is a Visual Basic style system that > provides the same sort of tools: visual form design, basic language, but > also includes good database integration. > > You may find it practical to develop in that rather than in a database > focused application. > Ok. Gambas to try on the weekend.. > Regards, > Daniel > snip I would never have tried these so thanks for the links. JB From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 7 09:50:46 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Apr 7 09:50:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] meeting feedback Message-ID: <656877.41390.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Thanks a lot to Vic for his demo on the RepRap. Was more than I expected. Thanks a big bunch again to Martin for his efforts in arranging these meetings. Much appreciated. Good to see the crowd growing. Just a note on yesterdays' presentation: did a bit of reading, and all indications seem to indicate that graphite is highly conductive, and may be good use in the development for the RepRap PC-board printing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite Also though a possible solution to the brittle component part would be to ass wire braces, in a similar way steel rods are added to concrete construction. Regarding the Release Party; the page has been added to the Ubuntu wiki page, but it's pointing to the FB page. Could somebody please assist me with setting up an independent page/notice on the site, as I'm aware that not all LUGgers are FB-able. Cheers 4 now & c ya l8r - J From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 10:22:46 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 7 10:22:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] trackballs Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904061522y2ea09fe0t58ac6a95ee7f7d0c@mail.gmail.com> hi, i was talking to someone last night - i didn't get his name - about trackballs. unfortunately, i got the name of the company wrong that i was recommending; it was kensington (who make the security locks), not kingston: http://us.kensington.com/html/1436.html i was very impressed with the 'expert mouse' model cheers From pfielder at operamail.com Tue Apr 7 10:28:24 2009 From: pfielder at operamail.com (Paul Fielder) Date: Tue Apr 7 10:28:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] INTERNET VIA VODAFONE VODEMSTICK Message-ID: <52C51907C3084FEB842034CA0C22F650@PAUL> Can anyone tell me how to set up Ubuntu to connect to the internet via Vodafone's 3G wireless broadband Vodem Stick ? It connects via the USB port, and doesn't need usernames or passwords as that is all handled by the SIM card inserted in the stick. Thanks, Paul Fielder From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Apr 7 10:54:50 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Apr 7 10:55:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] meeting feedback In-Reply-To: <656877.41390.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <656877.41390.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57152.119.15.0.26.1239058490.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> > > Regarding the Release Party; the page has been added to the Ubuntu wiki > page, but it's pointing to the FB page. Could somebody please assist me > with setting up an independent page/notice on the site, as I'm aware that > not all LUGgers are FB-able. > Define 'the site'. I can put stuff on linux.net.nz, just tell me what you'd like published. A straight rip of the facebook content? Cheers From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 12:08:51 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 7 12:09:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] INTERNET VIA VODAFONE VODEMSTICK In-Reply-To: <52C51907C3084FEB842034CA0C22F650@PAUL> References: <52C51907C3084FEB842034CA0C22F650@PAUL> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Paul Fielder wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to set up Ubuntu to connect to the internet via Vodafone's 3G wireless broadband Vodem Stick ? ?It connects via the USB port, and doesn't need usernames or passwords as that is all handled by the SIM card inserted in the stick. ?Thanks, ?Paul Fielder Try here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/chakkaradeep/4366 From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 12:55:10 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 7 12:55:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] sorting a music collection Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> for reasons i won't go into, my ripped mp3s have lost their directory structure/names, so now they're all in one directory with terribly useful titles like '00000A38' what i'd like to do, is based upon the id3 information, sort and rename them into a usable structure - something that i can define, so i can get to: ~/music/// - i had plenty of apps in my windows days (itunes and a couple of others) that would do this, but i don't know anything to do it in ubuntu - perhaps a plugin for amarok/rhythmbox? any suggestions gratefully received. and no, i'm not coding it from scratch in perl/python/whatever cheers rob From nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz Tue Apr 7 13:14:04 2009 From: nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz (Glen Ogilvie) Date: Tue Apr 7 13:14:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] sorting a music collection In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <176e9340711f71634d6625fc6d2a8beb@localhost> Hi Robin, Amarok can do this. 1. Move your unnamed files into a directory outside of where you usually keep your music 2. in amarok, drag them all to the play list. 3. right click, choose manage files -> organise file Regards Glen Ogilvie On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 12:55:10 +1200, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: > for reasons i won't go into, my ripped mp3s have lost their directory > structure/names, so now they're all in one directory with terribly > useful titles like '00000A38' > > what i'd like to do, is based upon the id3 information, sort and > rename them into a usable structure - something that i can define, so > i can get to: > > ~/music/<artist>/<album>/<track number> - <title> > > i had plenty of apps in my windows days (itunes and a couple of > others) that would do this, but i don't know anything to do it in > ubuntu - perhaps a plugin for amarok/rhythmbox? > > any suggestions gratefully received. and no, i'm not coding it from > scratch in perl/python/whatever > > cheers > > rob > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From leon at lost.co.nz Tue Apr 7 13:42:05 2009 From: leon at lost.co.nz (Leon Matthews) Date: Tue Apr 7 13:42:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] sorting a music collection In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49DAAF6D.8050908@lost.co.nz> Robin Paulson wrote: > any suggestions gratefully received. and no, i'm not coding it from > scratch in perl/python/whatever From scratch would be a big project, but using the Python library Mutagen[1], it's a walk in the park. Run something like the following on each file you're interested in: #!/usr/bin/env python import mutagen import os import shutil source = 'example.mp3' audio = mutagen.id3.ID3(source) artist = audio['artist'][0] album = audio['album'][0] destination = artist + os.sep + album if not os.path.exists(destination): os.mkdirs(destination) shutil.copy(source, destination) You can loop recursively loop over all the files in a directory tree with something like this: for root, dirs, files in os.walk(start): for filename in files: fullname = os.path.join(root, filename) try: # blah-de-blah except OSError: # panic! [1] http://code.google.com/p/quodlibet/wiki/Development/Mutagen It's almost fun! :-) Leon -- Leon Matthews BSc Technical Director, Messiah Ltd. messiah.co.nz | 0800 MESSIAH From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 14:01:40 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 7 14:01:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] sorting a music collection In-Reply-To: <49DAAF6D.8050908@lost.co.nz> References: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> <49DAAF6D.8050908@lost.co.nz> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904061901k1f3e73d4mc0919e75b35711ef@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Leon Matthews <leon@lost.co.nz> wrote: > It's almost fun! :-) Only almost??? From kiirani at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 16:46:46 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Tue Apr 7 16:47:03 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] sorting a music collection In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260904062146y798cd32et31108dca70ab61a7@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/7 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: > for reasons i won't go into, my ripped mp3s have lost their directory > structure/names, so now they're all in one directory with terribly > useful titles like '00000A38' ... Do the reasons you're not going into involve an iPod? :P > what i'd like to do, is based upon the id3 information, sort and > rename them into a usable structure - something that i can define, so > i can get to: > > ~/music/<artist>/<album>/<track number> - <title> > > i had plenty of apps in my windows days (itunes and a couple of > others) that would do this, but i don't know anything to do it in > ubuntu - perhaps a plugin for amarok/rhythmbox? As has been pointed out, amarok will do this for you... I'd also like to put a word in for an application called "easytag"*. I've never tried, but I believe it will reorganise directories based on tags. It's been good to me for reorganising music since I uninstalled amarok. One thing I'd like to say though, is it isn't actually that easy to use :/ http://easytag.sourceforge.net/ From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 16:52:26 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 7 16:52:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] sorting a music collection In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904062146y798cd32et31108dca70ab61a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904061755v6ac0a6a9td4e55ca06b7aa1da@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904062146y798cd32et31108dca70ab61a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904062152n7d52c678vb7989a453d54c198@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/7 Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com>: > 2009/4/7 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: >> for reasons i won't go into, my ripped mp3s have lost their directory >> structure/names, so now they're all in one directory with terribly no, it's a long and very dull story involving windows synchronising files from a network drive for offline use >> i had plenty of apps in my windows days (itunes and a couple of >> others) that would do this, but i don't know anything to do it in >> ubuntu - perhaps a plugin for amarok/rhythmbox? > > As has been pointed out, amarok will do this for you... I'd also like > to put a word in for an application called "easytag"*. I've never > tried, but I believe it will reorganise directories based on tags. > It's been good to me for reorganising music since I uninstalled > amarok. One thing I'd like to say though, is it isn't actually that > easy to use :/ > http://easytag.sourceforge.net/ i'll have a look at that if amarok can't be coaxed into doing it cheers for all the suggestions guys From andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz Wed Apr 8 19:29:21 2009 From: andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz (Andrew Simpson) Date: Wed Apr 8 19:29:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904052105k12159706y7bf03363d4c4e95c@mail.gmail.com> References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770904052105k12159706y7bf03363d4c4e95c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090408192921.70d86f01.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:05:51 +1200 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/4/6 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk>: > > Custom netbook distros: > > http://www.eeebuntu.org/ (not just for the eee) > > http://opengeu.intilinux.com/ (VERY pretty E17, has a netbook installer) > > (many more others out there) > > > > right, now i've got the hardware nearly sorted - what's your distro of > choice? eeebuntu doesn't support the acer, and i guess the mainstream > distros will will be hit-and-miss too, or is the hardware generic > enough? > I've come into this conversation a bit late, but here goes. I've been running an Aspire One on very distros (mainly Ubuntu variants). Moblin - A mobile distro from Intel based on Fedora. Still in alpha. Runs fast, but feels incomplete (I couldn't find an email client!). Ubuntu - Standard Ubuntu runs fine. I am using Xubuntu and that works well. The new Jaunty is running exceptionally well with fast boot and plenty of performance. Ubuntu LPIA - LPIA = low power intel architecture (i.e. Atom). The Intrepid version had a installer bug that made the installer crash - badly!! However once installed it is faster and less power hungry than standard version. The Jaunty version should be a winner. Ubuntu Netbook Remix - I have mixed feelings about this. The plus is that it uses LPIA packages. The cons are that it installs with ext3 by default (can't change installer), and that it's obviously aimed at the OEM market. Updates are a bit sparse because of this - or, so I'm told. Lots of eye candy.... There are tweaks that you should apply to the standard distro to get performance boosts: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne110L http://wiki.debian.org/DebianAcerOne Andrew From daniel at rimspace.net Wed Apr 8 19:48:36 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Wed Apr 8 19:49:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <20090408192921.70d86f01.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> (Andrew Simpson's message of "Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:29:21 +1200") References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770904052105k12159706y7bf03363d4c4e95c@mail.gmail.com> <20090408192921.70d86f01.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> Message-ID: <877i1vd1rf.fsf@rimspace.net> Andrew Simpson <andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> writes: > On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:05:51 +1200 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> > wrote: >> 2009/4/6 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk>: [...] > Ubuntu Netbook Remix - I have mixed feelings about this. The plus is > that it uses LPIA packages. The cons are that it installs with ext3 > by default (can't change installer) Out of curiosity, why do you consider ext3 a bad choice for the devices, and what do yo prefer in terms of filesystem? Regards, Daniel From andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz Wed Apr 8 21:17:36 2009 From: andrew.simpson at corokia.co.nz (Andrew Simpson) Date: Wed Apr 8 21:18:00 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <877i1vd1rf.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770904052105k12159706y7bf03363d4c4e95c@mail.gmail.com> <20090408192921.70d86f01.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> <877i1vd1rf.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <20090408211736.f5b57f56.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:48:36 +1000 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> wrote: > Andrew Simpson <andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> writes: > > On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:05:51 +1200 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> 2009/4/6 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk>: > > [...] > > > Ubuntu Netbook Remix - I have mixed feelings about this. The plus is > > that it uses LPIA packages. The cons are that it installs with ext3 > > by default (can't change installer) > > Out of curiosity, why do you consider ext3 a bad choice for the devices, > and what do yo prefer in terms of filesystem? > The 'writes' on the SSD are slow, especially compared with 'reads'. Ext3 does more 'writes' compared to ext2 because it keeps a journal. The anecdotal evidence from the users that have tried both ext3 and ext2 is that the former is noticeably slower on the Aspire One. Andrew From daniel at rimspace.net Wed Apr 8 21:21:29 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Wed Apr 8 21:21:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: acer aspire one vs. asus eee In-Reply-To: <20090408211736.f5b57f56.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> (Andrew Simpson's message of "Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:17:36 +1200") References: <239014.20653.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2f3aa2770904052105k12159706y7bf03363d4c4e95c@mail.gmail.com> <20090408192921.70d86f01.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> <877i1vd1rf.fsf@rimspace.net> <20090408211736.f5b57f56.andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> Message-ID: <873acjcxgm.fsf@rimspace.net> Andrew Simpson <andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> writes: > On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:48:36 +1000 > Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net> wrote: > >> Andrew Simpson <andrew.simpson@corokia.co.nz> writes: >> > On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:05:51 +1200 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> 2009/4/6 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk>: >> >> [...] >> >> > Ubuntu Netbook Remix - I have mixed feelings about this. The plus is >> > that it uses LPIA packages. The cons are that it installs with ext3 >> > by default (can't change installer) >> >> Out of curiosity, why do you consider ext3 a bad choice for the devices, >> and what do yo prefer in terms of filesystem? > > The 'writes' on the SSD are slow, especially compared with 'reads'. > Ext3 does more 'writes' compared to ext2 because it keeps a journal. *nod* I would have been concerned about the extra load from the fsck on boot with ext2; doesn't that have a fairly negative influence on the overall experience? Have y'all tried XFS or JFS as a performance comparison point? > The anecdotal evidence from the users that have tried both ext3 and > ext2 is that the former is noticeably slower on the Aspire One. My anecdotal evidence is that everything is slow on the A1 SSD, but ext3 certainly doesn't do so well. :) Regards, Daniel From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Thu Apr 9 17:46:04 2009 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Thu Apr 9 17:46:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] replacing ms access In-Reply-To: <49D9EC67.1070609@yahoo.co.nz> References: <49D8776B.3040204@yahoo.co.nz> <87prfr47hb.fsf@rimspace.net> <49D9EC67.1070609@yahoo.co.nz> Message-ID: <200904091746.04657.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:49:59 JHB wrote: > I would never have tried these so thanks for the links. Thanks for putting up that feedback on the suggestions by the others on the list. This is an issue I haven't had an opportunity to look into, but I'm glad to see someone trying and I could participate from their impressions. Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Room 2.63, Quad Block A Building Massey University, Auckland, Albany Private Bag 102 904, North Shore Mail Centre voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 eMail: G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://iims.massey.ac.nz From pfielder at operamail.com Fri Apr 10 18:05:16 2009 From: pfielder at operamail.com (Paul Fielder) Date: Fri Apr 10 18:07:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] INTERNET VIA VODAFONE VODEMSTICK Message-ID: <F71B7C29D01C4990A1D505D6DFE1B915@PAUL> Thanks Nervyn for that very helpful pointer to that useful website, which was great. Since then, since I thought some of my other problems might be because I was running AMD64 version of Ununtu and wanted to change to the i386 version, I visited the Ubuntu download website and saw that version 8.10 Intrepid Ibex was available. I downloaded and installed it, and found that 3G connectivity and setup is integrated into it, and it's working fine (you have to select the Vodafone unrestricted option). Now my next goal is to see if I can get the SMS module working, which works in Wiindows if the Vodem Stick is plugged in even when you are disconnected from the 3G network. - Paul Fielder Message: 1 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 12:08:51 +1200 From: Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] INTERNET VIA VODAFONE VODEMSTICK To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list <aucklug@linux.net.nz> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904061708k1954ee37me3659a53ddf8b76@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Paul Fielder <pfielder@operamail.com> wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to set up Ubuntu to connect to the internet via Vodafone's 3G wireless broadband Vodem Stick ? It connects via the USB port, and doesn't need usernames or passwords as that is all handled by the SIM card inserted in the stick. Thanks, Paul Fielder Try here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/chakkaradeep/4366 From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 13:02:24 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 14 13:02:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> hi all, i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day cheers From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 13:45:03 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 14 13:45:13 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: > hi all, > i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - > lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a > problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the > motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would > help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, > it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and > worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day > > cheers 9 times out of 10, the symptoms you're describing are either: memory issues (run memtest) or a failing power supply (replace and look for improvement). From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 14:47:59 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 14 14:48:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/14 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: >> hi all, >> i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - >> lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a >> problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the >> motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would >> help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, >> it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and >> worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day >> >> cheers > > 9 times out of 10, the symptoms you're describing are either: memory > issues (run memtest) or a failing power supply (replace and look for > improvement). cheers for the suggestion, nevyn: memtest reported nothing wrong; i think it completed a full run is there any way of testing the power supply without replacing it? i'm kind of broke at the moment.... i've had a lot of problems with ext3 and reiserfs drives being corrupted recently, could that be due to a failing power supply? From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 15:24:16 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 14 15:24:32 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/4/14 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: >>> hi all, >>> i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - >>> lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a >>> problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the >>> motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would >>> help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, >>> it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and >>> worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day >>> >>> cheers >> >> 9 times out of 10, the symptoms you're describing are either: memory >> issues (run memtest) or a failing power supply (replace and look for >> improvement). > > cheers for the suggestion, nevyn: > > memtest reported nothing wrong; i think it completed a full run > > is there any way of testing the power supply without replacing it? i'm > kind of broke at the moment.... > > i've had a lot of problems with ext3 and reiserfs drives being > corrupted recently, could that be due to a failing power supply? I'm not entirely sure. I've always looked for intermittent issues which seem unrelated yet nothing has really changed. It's a hard one to test as it doesn't take much for a power supply to drop a voltage here and there. Perhaps put a multi-meter to one of the rails and see if there are spikes/droppages? I'm not sure you'd see it if there were as multimeter's typically don't have that great a resolution. From michael.auckland at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 15:36:01 2009 From: michael.auckland at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Tue Apr 14 15:36:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35207fdf0904132036p27fbf276hfb21b7de5b853882@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: >> 2009/4/14 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> hi all, >>>> i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - >>>> lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a >>>> problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the >>>> motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would >>>> help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, >>>> it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and >>>> worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day >>>> >>>> cheers >>> >>> 9 times out of 10, the symptoms you're describing are either: memory >>> issues (run memtest) or a failing power supply (replace and look for >>> improvement). >> >> cheers for the suggestion, nevyn: >> >> memtest reported nothing wrong; i think it completed a full run >> >> is there any way of testing the power supply without replacing it? i'm >> kind of broke at the moment.... >> >> i've had a lot of problems with ext3 and reiserfs drives being >> corrupted recently, could that be due to a failing power supply? > > I'm not entirely sure. I've always looked for intermittent issues > which seem unrelated yet nothing has really changed. It's a hard one > to test as it doesn't take much for a power supply to drop a voltage > here and there. Perhaps put a multi-meter to one of the rails and see > if there are spikes/droppages? I'm not sure you'd see it if there were > as multimeter's typically don't have that great a resolution. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > "stress" is a good tool to put your system under heavy load and use lm-sensors to get info about your CPU,temp,voltage, etc.. Power supply doesn't last ( and loosing their capacity around 20% per year )- so most likely it is a power supply - or could be a dust inside - do a good vacuuming. -- -- Michael From thetoolman at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 15:44:48 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Tue Apr 14 15:45:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <35207fdf0904132036p27fbf276hfb21b7de5b853882@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <35207fdf0904132036p27fbf276hfb21b7de5b853882@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <d69be7e20904132044qbd11da4o6e2cfa317e2a2e54@mail.gmail.com> You might want to see if the X logs have any hints as to why its crashing. But as said, the most common stuff is memory, hdd or PSU. Also, the memtest86 is worth leaving running overnight, as some memory problems are transient and only occur occasionally. cheers, toolman. 2009/4/14 Michael <michael.auckland@gmail.com>: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: >>> 2009/4/14 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> hi all, >>>>> i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - >>>>> lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a >>>>> problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the >>>>> motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would >>>>> help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, >>>>> it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and >>>>> worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day >>>>> >>>>> cheers >>>> >>>> 9 times out of 10, the symptoms you're describing are either: memory >>>> issues (run memtest) or a failing power supply (replace and look for >>>> improvement). >>> >>> cheers for the suggestion, nevyn: >>> >>> memtest reported nothing wrong; i think it completed a full run >>> >>> is there any way of testing the power supply without replacing it? i'm >>> kind of broke at the moment.... >>> >>> i've had a lot of problems with ext3 and reiserfs drives being >>> corrupted recently, could that be due to a failing power supply? >> >> I'm not entirely sure. I've always looked for intermittent issues >> which seem unrelated yet nothing has really changed. It's a hard one >> to test as it doesn't take much for a power supply to drop a voltage >> here and there. Perhaps put a multi-meter to one of the rails and see >> if there are spikes/droppages? I'm not sure you'd see it if there were >> as multimeter's typically don't have that great a resolution. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > > "stress" is a good tool to put your system under heavy load > and use lm-sensors to get info about your CPU,temp,voltage, etc.. > Power supply doesn't last ?( and loosing their capacity around 20% per > year )- so most likely it is a power supply - or could be a dust > inside - do a good vacuuming. > > > > -- > -- > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 15:46:24 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 14 15:46:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/14 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >> i've had a lot of problems with ext3 and reiserfs drives being >> corrupted recently, could that be due to a failing power supply? > > I'm not entirely sure. I've always looked for intermittent issues > which seem unrelated yet nothing has really changed. It's a hard one > to test as it doesn't take much for a power supply to drop a voltage > here and there. Perhaps put a multi-meter to one of the rails and see > if there are spikes/droppages? I'm not sure you'd see it if there were > as multimeter's typically don't have that great a resolution. yeah, i realise a multimeter isn't a great method - is the voltage of the power supply provided in a way which is measurable by software? i recall seeing it in BIOS setup - it would be great to leave it running for a while, and plot the voltages against time to look for any trends i tried a few from the ubuntu repos, but none actually gave a voltage - one said the k8 (athlon 3500) wasn't supported From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 15:48:18 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 14 15:48:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <d69be7e20904132044qbd11da4o6e2cfa317e2a2e54@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <35207fdf0904132036p27fbf276hfb21b7de5b853882@mail.gmail.com> <d69be7e20904132044qbd11da4o6e2cfa317e2a2e54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904132048y4c253db1i915c80fbb99ee50@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/14 Tim Toolman <thetoolman@gmail.com>: >> "stress" is a good tool to put your system under heavy load >> and use lm-sensors to get info about your CPU,temp,voltage, etc.. >> Power supply doesn't last ?( and loosing their capacity around 20% per >> year )- so most likely it is a power supply - or could be a dust >> inside - do a good vacuuming. cheers michael; vacuuming i can manage > Also, the memtest86 is worth leaving running overnight, as some memory > problems are transient and only occur occasionally. and i'll give that a go as well tim, thanks From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Apr 14 15:51:38 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Apr 14 15:51:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> (Robin Paulson's message of "Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:46:24 +1200") References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> writes: > 2009/4/14 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >>> i've had a lot of problems with ext3 and reiserfs drives being >>> corrupted recently, could that be due to a failing power supply? >> >> I'm not entirely sure. I've always looked for intermittent issues >> which seem unrelated yet nothing has really changed. It's a hard one >> to test as it doesn't take much for a power supply to drop a voltage >> here and there. Perhaps put a multi-meter to one of the rails and see >> if there are spikes/droppages? I'm not sure you'd see it if there were >> as multimeter's typically don't have that great a resolution. > > yeah, i realise a multimeter isn't a great method - is the voltage of > the power supply provided in a way which is measurable by software? That depends, mostly on the amount of money you paid for your motherboard.[1] Specifically, you can monitor anything that has a sensor attached, and the lm-sensors tools are what you use to talk to those. [...] > i tried a few from the ubuntu repos, but none actually gave a voltage > - one said the k8 (athlon 3500) wasn't supported Did you configure the lm-sensors package at all? That usually probes the SMBus / I?C / ISA space to find the embedded sensors; without that configuration your applications will have very little to report. Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] ...in the sense that the cost is a reasonable proxy for the quality of the board, and the higher the quality the more likely the vendor is to build in decent monitoring facilities. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 16:20:14 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 14 16:21:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/14 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: > That depends, mostly on the amount of money you paid for your > motherboard.[1] well, i thought NZ$280 in 2005 was a hefty amount for a single cpu desktop board, but my idea of expensive could be way off anyone else's.... > Specifically, you can monitor anything that has a sensor attached, and > the lm-sensors tools are what you use to talk to those. > > [...] > >> i tried a few from the ubuntu repos, but none actually gave a voltage >> - one said the k8 (athlon 3500) wasn't supported > > Did you configure the lm-sensors package at all? ?That usually probes > the SMBus / I?C / ISA space to find the embedded sensors; without that > configuration your applications will have very little to report. doing it now. i had to share the first question, which made me laugh (bad day, anything will make me laugh at the moment) "This program will help you determine which kernel modules you need to load to use lm_sensors most effectively. It is generally safe and recommended to accept the default answers to all questions, unless you know what you're doing." so, if i *do* know what i'm doing, the default is *unsafe*.....? i didn't see any mention of voltage measurements, so i may be out of luck. will reboot and see what happens From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Apr 14 16:28:29 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Apr 14 16:28:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> (Robin Paulson's message of "Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:20:14 +1200") References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87hc0rn9jm.fsf@rimspace.net> Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> writes: > 2009/4/14 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: [...] >> Specifically, you can monitor anything that has a sensor attached, and >> the lm-sensors tools are what you use to talk to those. >> >> [...] >> >>> i tried a few from the ubuntu repos, but none actually gave a voltage >>> - one said the k8 (athlon 3500) wasn't supported >> >> Did you configure the lm-sensors package at all? ?That usually probes >> the SMBus / I?C / ISA space to find the embedded sensors; without that >> configuration your applications will have very little to report. > > doing it now. i had to share the first question, which made me laugh > (bad day, anything will make me laugh at the moment) Heh. I find it kind of cute. > "This program will help you determine which kernel modules you need to > load to use lm_sensors most effectively. It is generally safe and > recommended to accept the default answers to all questions, unless you > know what you're doing." > > so, if i *do* know what i'm doing, the default is *unsafe*.....? Ah, English, a language which is more ambiguity than sense. :) > i didn't see any mention of voltage measurements, so i may be out of > luck. will reboot and see what happens Hmmm. As long as you loaded the recommended modules you should get immediate satisfaction. Which sensors did it report detecting? Regards, Daniel From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 16:34:03 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 14 16:36:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904132134k7ccffb17r14c6386343db4ff7@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/14 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: >> Did you configure the lm-sensors package at all? ?That usually probes >> the SMBus / I?C / ISA space to find the embedded sensors; without that >> configuration your applications will have very little to report. > > doing it now. i had to share the first question, which made me laugh > (bad day, anything will make me laugh at the moment) > "This program will help you determine which kernel modules you need > to load to use lm_sensors most effectively. It is generally safe > and recommended to accept the default answers to all questions, > unless you know what you're doing." > > so, if i *do* know what i'm doing, the default is *unsafe*.....? > > i didn't see any mention of voltage measurements, so i may be out of > luck. will reboot and see what happens > success! so, i got the following output (i think it must have been waiting for a modprobe to load the modules, and i wasn't in the mood for more learning...), now what i need to do is request this every (say) second, parse it, and produce a nice graph. i guess some programming with bash scripts and awk is my next step? or can anyone recommend a good package that will do this for me? acpitz-virtual-0 Adapter: Virtual device temp1: +40.0?C (crit = +75.0?C) k8temp-pci-00c3 Adapter: PCI adapter Core0 Temp: +31.0?C lm90-i2c-0-4c Adapter: SMBus Via Pro adapter at 5000 M/B Temp: +31.0?C (low = +0.0?C, high = +70.0?C) (crit = +85.0?C, hyst = +75.0?C) CPU Temp: +43.2?C (low = +0.0?C, high = +70.0?C) (crit = +85.0?C, hyst = +75.0?C) it87-isa-0290 Adapter: ISA adapter VCore 1: +1.09 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V) VCore 2: +2.58 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V) +3.3V: +3.20 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +4.08 V) +5V: +4.89 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +6.85 V) +12V: +11.71 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +16.32 V) -12V: -19.75 V (min = -27.36 V, max = +3.93 V) -5V: -8.65 V (min = -13.64 V, max = +4.03 V) Stdby: +4.97 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +6.85 V) VBat: +4.08 V fan1: 13235 RPM (min = 3245 RPM) fan2: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM) M/B Temp: +34.0?C (low = -1.0?C, high = +127.0?C) sensor = transistor CPU Temp: -88.0?C (low = -1.0?C, high = +127.0?C) sensor = thermal diode Temp3: +27.0?C (low = -1.0?C, high = +127.0?C) sensor = transistor From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Apr 14 16:58:54 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Apr 14 16:59:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904132134k7ccffb17r14c6386343db4ff7@mail.gmail.com> (Robin Paulson's message of "Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:34:03 +1200") References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132134k7ccffb17r14c6386343db4ff7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <874owrn84x.fsf@rimspace.net> Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> writes: > 2009/4/14 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: >>> Did you configure the lm-sensors package at all? ?That usually probes >>> the SMBus / I?C / ISA space to find the embedded sensors; without that >>> configuration your applications will have very little to report. [...] > so, i got the following output (i think it must have been waiting for > a modprobe to load the modules, and i wasn't in the mood for more > learning...), now what i need to do is request this every (say) > second, parse it, and produce a nice graph. i guess some programming > with bash scripts and awk is my next step? or can anyone recommend a > good package that will do this for me? My choice is 'munin', but more or less anything should do. If it is packaged for Linux and supports graphing anything hardware related it talks to the lm-sensors system to get the details. Regards, Daniel From thetoolman at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 17:13:40 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Tue Apr 14 17:14:07 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904132134k7ccffb17r14c6386343db4ff7@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132134k7ccffb17r14c6386343db4ff7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <d69be7e20904132213r312a0a89lcf1f808dd3de08d9@mail.gmail.com> KDE has a nice tool for this (ksysguard) and I'm sure that gnome will have something similar, but dont know what it s called sorry. Toolman 2009/4/14 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: > 2009/4/14 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: >>> Did you configure the lm-sensors package at all? ?That usually probes >>> the SMBus / I?C / ISA space to find the embedded sensors; without that >>> configuration your applications will have very little to report. >> >> doing it now. i had to share the first question, which made me laugh >> (bad day, anything will make me laugh at the moment) >> "This program will help you determine which kernel modules you need >> to load to use lm_sensors most effectively. It is generally safe >> and recommended to accept the default answers to all questions, >> unless you know what you're doing." >> >> so, if i *do* know what i'm doing, the default is *unsafe*.....? >> >> i didn't see any mention of voltage measurements, so i may be out of >> luck. will reboot and see what happens >> > > success! > > so, i got the following output (i think it must have been waiting for > a modprobe to load the modules, and i wasn't in the mood for more > learning...), now what i need to do is request this every (say) > second, parse it, and produce a nice graph. i guess some programming > with bash scripts and awk is my next step? or can anyone recommend a > good package that will do this for me? > > acpitz-virtual-0 > Adapter: Virtual device > temp1: ? ? ? +40.0?C ?(crit = +75.0?C) > > k8temp-pci-00c3 > Adapter: PCI adapter > Core0 Temp: ?+31.0?C > > lm90-i2c-0-4c > Adapter: SMBus Via Pro adapter at 5000 > M/B Temp: ? ?+31.0?C ?(low ?= ?+0.0?C, high = +70.0?C) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(crit = +85.0?C, hyst = +75.0?C) > CPU Temp: ? ?+43.2?C ?(low ?= ?+0.0?C, high = +70.0?C) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(crit = +85.0?C, hyst = +75.0?C) > > it87-isa-0290 > Adapter: ISA adapter > VCore 1: ? ? +1.09 V ?(min = ?+0.00 V, max = ?+4.08 V) > VCore 2: ? ? +2.58 V ?(min = ?+0.00 V, max = ?+4.08 V) > +3.3V: ? ? ? +3.20 V ?(min = ?+0.00 V, max = ?+4.08 V) > +5V: ? ? ? ? +4.89 V ?(min = ?+0.00 V, max = ?+6.85 V) > +12V: ? ? ? +11.71 V ?(min = ?+0.00 V, max = +16.32 V) > -12V: ? ? ? -19.75 V ?(min = -27.36 V, max = ?+3.93 V) > -5V: ? ? ? ? -8.65 V ?(min = -13.64 V, max = ?+4.03 V) > Stdby: ? ? ? +4.97 V ?(min = ?+0.00 V, max = ?+6.85 V) > VBat: ? ? ? ?+4.08 V > fan1: ? ? ? 13235 RPM ?(min = 3245 RPM) > fan2: ? ? ? ? ?0 RPM ?(min = ? ?0 RPM) > M/B Temp: ? ?+34.0?C ?(low ?= ?-1.0?C, high = +127.0?C) ?sensor = transistor > CPU Temp: ? ?-88.0?C ?(low ?= ?-1.0?C, high = +127.0?C) ?sensor = thermal diode > Temp3: ? ? ? +27.0?C ?(low ?= ?-1.0?C, high = +127.0?C) ?sensor = transistor > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 17:23:47 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 14 17:24:46 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <d69be7e20904132213r312a0a89lcf1f808dd3de08d9@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904132024n736ae8bew8a1b583c4554b8c4@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132046x44b68ae5nefbcca0dadf426bc@mail.gmail.com> <87tz4rnb91.fsf@rimspace.net> <2f3aa2770904132120l633d5687occ20c31e4aed5a80@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904132134k7ccffb17r14c6386343db4ff7@mail.gmail.com> <d69be7e20904132213r312a0a89lcf1f808dd3de08d9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904132223x605981daj84bfddd5c40ad8dc@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/14 Tim Toolman <thetoolman@gmail.com>: > KDE has a nice tool for this (ksysguard) and I'm sure that gnome will > have something similar, but dont know what it s called sorry. it does, there's gnome system monitor - not sure if either of those can be set to log a variable over time; i'll dig and see what i can find. cheers for the suggestion From lilypatch at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 20:19:17 2009 From: lilypatch at gmail.com (David Bowen) Date: Tue Apr 14 20:23:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904131845v1811406ct9564e00d798b4715@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904131947x1ebb5ba1v4e950fd73655faa4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49E44705.7030500@gmail.com> Robin Paulson wrote: > 2009/4/14 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: > >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> hi all, >>> i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - >>> lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a >>> problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the >>> motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would >>> help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, >>> it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and >>> worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day >>> >>> cheers >>> >> 9 times out of 10, the symptoms you're describing are either: memory >> issues (run memtest) or a failing power supply (replace and look for >> improvement). >> > > Hi Another method if you are game, is unplug it and open up the power supply and and look for faulty caps. Take a look at these pictures if you don't know what to look for. http://badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=5 I was tweaking a computer for a friend last week and rebooted it. It died! 4 caps on the motherboard and three more in the power supply. I replaced them and all was well :-) David From sbwithers at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 22:34:19 2009 From: sbwithers at gmail.com (Steve Withers) Date: Wed Apr 15 22:34:31 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4372ea620904150334s2a4c4ee8m1f767402a9a7a679@mail.gmail.com> Hi Robin As well as hardware issues, power fluctuations and voltage drops can have a huge impact on reliability. You can rule that out by buying a cheap, line-interactive UPS....and se if your system is still flakey. You may have to re-install as power fluctions can result in damaged data in the past continuing to cause grief until you re-install. Steve Withers sbwithers@gmail.com +64-21-0267-3530 (voice, txt or video) On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>wrote: > hi all, > i've been having a few problems with system instability recently - > lockups, X server crashing, and similar. i think there may be a > problem with some hardware, and for various reasons i suspect the > motherboard. is there any diagnostic software for linux, which would > help me track down the problems? when i first used ubuntu 2 years ago, > it was great, but in the last year or so, stability has got worse and > worse, to the point i have at least one incident every day > > cheers > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 23:29:32 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Apr 15 23:29:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <4372ea620904150334s2a4c4ee8m1f767402a9a7a679@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <4372ea620904150334s2a4c4ee8m1f767402a9a7a679@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904150429j37e0a117s1ad45669368067b1@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/15 Steve Withers <sbwithers@gmail.com>: > As well as hardware issues, power fluctuations and voltage drops can have a > huge impact on reliability. You can rule that out by buying a cheap, > line-interactive UPS....and se if your system is still flakey. You may have > to re-install as power fluctions can result in damaged data in the past > continuing to cause grief until you re-install. i've always used a decent surge protector (belkin something or other) - i'm well aware of the shitty quality of the power in auckland, and i'd hope that would rule out any badness going *into* the psu. i'm yet to do any analysis of the voltage output, will report back when i've got some data From michael.auckland at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 06:46:37 2009 From: michael.auckland at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Thu Apr 16 06:46:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware diagnostics for linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904150429j37e0a117s1ad45669368067b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904131802o4f0235e6x3ed0a4e6a6c1b5fe@mail.gmail.com> <4372ea620904150334s2a4c4ee8m1f767402a9a7a679@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904150429j37e0a117s1ad45669368067b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35207fdf0904151146w381f9a28t495db6b6bc45db2c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/4/15 Steve Withers <sbwithers@gmail.com>: >> As well as hardware issues, power fluctuations and voltage drops can have a >> huge impact on reliability. You can rule that out by buying a cheap, >> line-interactive UPS....and se if your system is still flakey. You may have >> to re-install as power fluctions can result in damaged data in the past >> continuing to cause grief until you re-install. > > i've always used a decent surge protector (belkin something or other) > - i'm well aware of the shitty quality of the power in auckland, and > i'd hope that would rule out any badness going *into* the psu. i'm yet > to do any analysis of the voltage output, will report back when i've > got some data > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > Good idea to check you system data for curruption using "debsums" and check your video driver ( can give a problem too ) -- -- Michael From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 16 11:16:43 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Apr 16 11:16:56 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] re Hardware tests, power solutions & other hardware woes Message-ID: <334094.1671.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Sorry for chirping up this late, but I've not had anything worthwhile to contribute until now. Regarding hardware info: `sudo apt-get install hardinfo` This is a nifty little tool, in the vein of windoze DXdiag, and has a pretty GUI that can do various benchmarks & generate reports. Don't forget phpInfo for some basic web-based tools (though this is probably not exactly what you're looking for). Got a new power supply for my 1st-Gen Asus 701 eeePC, at a decent price, thanks to SoHo Systems. Though it's not exactly the same unit, it's pretty close, they cleared the spec with the manufacturer for me, and it's not cooked my little sidekick. ### Back in SA, we had what was referred to as "rolling blackouts"; ie. the power went out at random intervals, about once or twice a day. When the power came back on, it blew electronics left, right & center. Needless to say I made a roaring business replacing machines :) A VERY simple & cost-effective solution I came up with (homebrew hack, so consider this GPL), was to purchase: * little UPS (100 or 200 KVA?) * multi-tap adapter (preferrably also with a built-in surge arrest). would'nt get more than 6 or 8 point * fused (?) surge-arrest plug * kettle-chord extension * insulation tape. "connector-blocks" if you're so inclined Cut the kettle-chord, working one end onto the surge-arrest plug, & cut the plug off the multi-tap & work on the other end of the severed extension. Now power the UPS via the surge-arrest plug, & plug the multitap into the UPS. I simply glue-gunned the multi-tap onto the UPS to create a single unit Ta-da! Now you have a very basic multi-point surge-protected UPS. I had several of these units about: one for my "home theatre", one for may workshop, and one for my office. It probably won't protect you from a direct lightning strike (believe me, this has happened to me more than once), nor would I put any critical medical equipment on it, but at least is offers some kind of protection. Be careful not to overload it (avoid heavy loads, like soldering irons & fans & such), but it should at least protect you from severe power spikes, possibly some brown-outs, and give you a few precious second to safely power down systems in the event the power goes out. ### On a separate note, don't quite know if anyone's able to help me on this one: One day, for no apparent reason I can discern, my numerical keypad started wigging out: only the <enter> key works as should, but the rest are doing some pretty random things (like pasting random text). Standard US 105 QWERTY layout I've determined that it's not the hardware itself, since it works OK on other systems, but not on my primary system or any of it's child VM's. Anyone seen anything like this or have some advise, please? Driving me nuts - Jaco From aw30 at sayne.org Thu Apr 16 11:50:53 2009 From: aw30 at sayne.org (Ant) Date: Thu Apr 16 11:51:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] re Hardware tests, power solutions & other hardware woes In-Reply-To: <334094.1671.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <334094.1671.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200904161150.53656.aw30@sayne.org> Interestingly, my numeric keyboard did the same thing a few weeks ago. But only when I ran KDE (3.5). At the stage before running startx, it worked fine - numbers as usual. I suspected that running the same home directory (on a portable disk drive) on different computers/suse/debian installs of kde had confused the settings. In the end, I renamed the .kde directory to .kde.orig, so provoking a re-setup of kde, and it's been behaving ever since. And I can still copy any vital kde prog setups from the .kde.orig directory On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Sorry for chirping up this late, but I've not had anything worthwhile to ----- > On a separate note, don't quite know if anyone's able to help me on this one: > One day, for no apparent reason I can discern, my numerical keypad started wigging out: only the <enter> key works as should, but the rest are doing some pretty random things (like pasting random text). Standard US 105 QWERTY layout > I've determined that it's not the hardware itself, since it works OK on other systems, but not on my primary system or any of it's child VM's. > Anyone seen anything like this or have some advise, please? Driving me nuts cheers -- Ant This message is just plain text, generated by a linux system (kmail running on SUSE or debian linux) so it can't have any viruses. Attachments (if any) are JPEG, or Open Document format generated by OpenOffice From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 17 10:31:33 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Apr 17 10:31:44 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] hardware hacks Message-ID: <725331.14062.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Keeping in the vein of the fantastic RepRap semi-demo (courtesy of Vic), I've com across the following info. Make 'Zine is having an Arduino 101 guide, and located some other stuff: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/04/getting_started_with_arduino_and_a.html (iPhone version) http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/04/getting_started_with_arduino_and_a.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/04/in_the_maker_shed_arduino_mega_now.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 Arduino autopilot: http://aboutmicrocontroller.blogspot.com/2009/04/arduino-autopilot-control.html & DIY ceramics for 3D printing: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090331153010.htm have fun & a fantastic w-end! - J From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 20 12:56:49 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Apr 20 12:57:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Certification Message-ID: <524541.6285.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> I see that Canonical have updated their "Ubuntu Certified Professional" (UCP) (http://www.ubuntu.com/training/certificationcourses/professional) specs. Does anyone know where in Auckland I can go do LPI certification? If so, do you know if the course could be run over a series of weekends, and if group-discounts are available? - J From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Mon Apr 20 13:32:37 2009 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin Kealey) Date: Mon Apr 20 13:33:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904201330020.12971@feathers.sig.net.nz> There is doubt about being able to use Vodafone for next month's meeting as I will not be there to oversee the meeting (it's my wife's birthday). If anyone has options for another venue please let me know. -Martin From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 13:37:42 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Apr 20 13:37:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904201330020.12971@feathers.sig.net.nz> References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904201330020.12971@feathers.sig.net.nz> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904191837s46ad033bt5e8102ff91de9441@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Martin Kealey <martin@kurahaupo.gen.nz> wrote: > > There is doubt about being able to use Vodafone for next month's meeting as > I will not be there to oversee the meeting (it's my wife's birthday). > > If anyone has options for another venue please let me know. > > -Martin Do we have an idea of what the talk is about next month? i.e. is this something that could become a social gathering (i.e. a pub) with just general discussion and troubleshooting? From nardusg at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 14:20:21 2009 From: nardusg at gmail.com (Nardus Geldenhuys) Date: Mon Apr 20 14:20:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Certification In-Reply-To: <524541.6285.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <524541.6285.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <778465350904191920g5e1bcf27tecb920fa878b1a52@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jaco Just go and write the exam's... You can get enough info about the exams and what you need to know for an specific exam. So if you are or have been on linux for a long time your experience should be fine. I have looked for courses but have not found any. There is at least a bunch op pro-metric test centers to go and write the exams :) I need to go and do the ubuntu lpi bit. I have already got the LPI 1+2 certification. And then maybe LPI 3 ;) Cheers Nardus 2009/4/20 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk> > I see that Canonical have updated their "Ubuntu > Certified Professional" (UCP) ( > http://www.ubuntu.com/training/certificationcourses/professional) specs. > > Does anyone know where in Auckland I can go do LPI certification? > If so, do you know if the course could be run over a series of weekends, > and if group-discounts are available? > > - J > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 20 15:31:04 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Apr 20 15:31:14 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Reminder: Jaunty Jackalope Release Party Message-ID: <946985.11256.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi guys, Quick reminder about the informal shindig. Ubuntu Jaunty Jackalope release party this Friday evening @ RvB. Plenty of entertainment on hand Posted a non-FB page: http://auck-jauntyrelease.blogspot.com/ I'll start downloading the ISO's as soon as I can. (pls recommend ISO's of choice) Anyone wanting to distribute/sell USB or DVD/CD's to load distro's on are welcome to do so (we tried this @ the SFD, with muted results), or BYO Cheers - Jaco From nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz Mon Apr 20 16:16:49 2009 From: nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz (Glen Ogilvie) Date: Mon Apr 20 16:17:01 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904201330020.12971@feathers.sig.net.nz> References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904201330020.12971@feathers.sig.net.nz> Message-ID: <42d0466d76bc589ce983b3559dc4f925@localhost> Hi, OSS is happy to host the Aucklug May meeting. 162 Grafton road. Our boardroom can accommodate around 15 - 20 people and we can provide a projector. Regards Glen Ogilvie On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:32:37 +1200 (NZST), Martin Kealey <martin@kurahaupo.gen.nz> wrote: > There is doubt about being able to use Vodafone for next month's meeting as > I will not be there to oversee the meeting (it's my wife's birthday). > > If anyone has options for another venue please let me know. > > -Martin > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From aw30 at sayne.org Mon Apr 20 16:53:15 2009 From: aw30 at sayne.org (Ant) Date: Mon Apr 20 16:55:10 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino Message-ID: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> I missed the talk by Vic, but here is are a couple of questions which I originally sent to follower <follower@rancidbacon.com>, but which got rejected by spamrats, apparently (?) Can anyone help? I was looking over the aucklug threads and I spotted that you are doing arduino stuff. Where is the best place to get the boards in NZ? And how is your python binding going? cheers -- Ant From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 17:43:21 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Apr 20 17:43:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino In-Reply-To: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> References: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904192243u10d2f69fi2452d7634566cf42@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Ant <aw30@sayne.org> wrote: > I missed the talk by Vic, but here is are a couple of questions which I > originally sent to > follower <follower@rancidbacon.com>, but which got rejected by spamrats, > apparently (?) > > Can anyone help? > > > I was looking over the aucklug threads and I spotted that you are doing > arduino stuff. Where is the best place to get the boards in NZ? And how is > your python binding going? > > cheers > > -- > Ant Hi Ant, A quick search on the net reveals that Nice Gear, Mind Kits and Co Lab all have them. However, Co Lab appear to be out of stock at the moment. From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Tue Apr 21 08:44:00 2009 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Tue Apr 21 08:44:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <42d0466d76bc589ce983b3559dc4f925@localhost> References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904201330020.12971@feathers.sig.net.nz> <42d0466d76bc589ce983b3559dc4f925@localhost> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904210841430.12971@feathers.sig.net.nz> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Glen Ogilvie wrote: > OSS is happy to host the Aucklug May meeting. > 162 Grafton road. Our boardroom can accommodate around 15 - 20 people and > we can provide a projector. Thanks Glen. And of course, there's the other half of this: any volunteers to present topics? Or even ideas for what you'd like to see discussed? -Martin From leon at lost.co.nz Tue Apr 21 10:16:31 2009 From: leon at lost.co.nz (Leon Matthews) Date: Tue Apr 21 10:16:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino In-Reply-To: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> References: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> Message-ID: <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> Ant wrote: > Where is the best place to get the boards in NZ? I bought my board from mindkits.co.nz. Very nice guy behind the company, very responsive too. Highly recommended. Leon -- Leon Matthews BSc Technical Director, Messiah Ltd. http://messiah.co.nz/ | 0800 MESSIAH personal | http://lost.co.nz/ From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 10:34:17 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 21 10:34:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino In-Reply-To: <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> References: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904201534m7b36de01nd099de4d3e4fccf5@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Leon Matthews <leon@lost.co.nz> wrote: > Ant wrote: >> >> Where is the best place to get the boards in NZ? > > I bought my board from mindkits.co.nz. ?Very nice guy behind the company, > very responsive too. ?Highly recommended. www.mindkits.co.nz ^----it seems the www is important in this case Always hated that - once wrote a message to Auckland City Council about the same thing as I believe city councils really should be as easy to contact as possible. Got back a reply saying something along the lines of "While some dodgy operators remove the need for www. at the beginning of their domains to generate business, we do not". It seems the banks are dodgy at the very least amongst a whole lot of others. From dominics at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 13:55:57 2009 From: dominics at gmail.com (Dominic Scheirlinck) Date: Tue Apr 21 13:56:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino In-Reply-To: <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> References: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> Message-ID: <1f6ddec30904201855k2214c658vc2a587ff8c060020@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Leon Matthews <leon@lost.co.nz> wrote: > I bought my board from mindkits.co.nz. ?Very nice guy behind the company, > very responsive too. ?Highly recommended. I can second this recommendation. The guy behind it did a special run down to the post office to get my boards to me before a long weekend! As long as you're not thinking of going for a mega, I'd really recommend going for the separate FTDI breakout board and a Pro. That'll let you program things like breaduinos too. Dom From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 14:38:24 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 21 14:38:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino In-Reply-To: <1f6ddec30904201855k2214c658vc2a587ff8c060020@mail.gmail.com> References: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> <1f6ddec30904201855k2214c658vc2a587ff8c060020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904201938m18f611a0p22e2df1c984ba8c0@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Dominic Scheirlinck <dominics@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Leon Matthews <leon@lost.co.nz> wrote: >> I bought my board from mindkits.co.nz. ?Very nice guy behind the company, >> very responsive too. ?Highly recommended. > > I can second this recommendation. The guy behind it did a special run > down to the post office to get my boards to me before a long weekend! > > As long as you're not thinking of going for a mega, I'd really > recommend going for the separate FTDI breakout board and a Pro. > That'll let you program things like breaduinos too. > > > Dom I just had a thought... didn't Vik say that they were using the Sanguino which is an Anguino clone? From dominics at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 15:55:10 2009 From: dominics at gmail.com (Dominic Scheirlinck) Date: Tue Apr 21 15:55:38 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904201938m18f611a0p22e2df1c984ba8c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> <1f6ddec30904201855k2214c658vc2a587ff8c060020@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904201938m18f611a0p22e2df1c984ba8c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f6ddec30904202055v453d2117x397c541f7b73b8b8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > I just had a thought... didn't Vik say that they were using the > Sanguino which is an Anguino clone? Beats me. From looking at the Sanguino page, though, it looks like it needs a seperate FTDI cable or breakout board anyway. I'm just saying that I actually prefer it that way. It makes things cheaper, and I seem to be mainly doing projects that don't require a serial connection to a computer beyond programming the thing at the start (I'm currently playing around with ethernet shields). Of course, that might not be the case for some people. If you think you'll be mainly using your *duino hooked up to your computer, you might want a more traditional arduino design. Dom From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 16:21:41 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 21 16:23:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] arduino In-Reply-To: <1f6ddec30904202055v453d2117x397c541f7b73b8b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <200904201653.15214.aw30@sayne.org> <49ECF43F.6000709@lost.co.nz> <1f6ddec30904201855k2214c658vc2a587ff8c060020@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904201938m18f611a0p22e2df1c984ba8c0@mail.gmail.com> <1f6ddec30904202055v453d2117x397c541f7b73b8b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904202121qbd42760v90e835ecf4b35c79@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Dominic Scheirlinck <dominics@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: >> I just had a thought... didn't Vik say that they were using the >> Sanguino which is an Anguino clone? > > Beats me. From looking at the Sanguino page, though, it looks like it > needs a seperate FTDI cable or breakout board anyway. > > I'm just saying that I actually prefer it that way. It makes things > cheaper, and I seem to be mainly doing projects that don't require a > serial connection to a computer beyond programming the thing at the > start (I'm currently playing around with ethernet shields). > > Of course, that might not be the case for some people. If you think > you'll be mainly using your *duino hooked up to your computer, you > might want a more traditional arduino design. > > Dom My thought was when looking at it, you're best off buying the breakaway board with the mini designs. That way you pay the $30 odd for the breakaway and the subsequent boards are then $40 rather than paying around $75 for the device with the usb controller built in. And as far as I can see using this approach is no less convenient except that you have to plug one bit into another bit (anyone not play with Lego at some point in their lives?). Where do you get the ethernet shield from? I know Nice Gear have them at about $95. Are there any other places to get them? The Xbee shield kit looks like fun as well. From thetoolman at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 13:33:29 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Wed Apr 22 13:37:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Reminder: Jaunty Jackalope Release Party In-Reply-To: <946985.11256.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <946985.11256.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <d69be7e20904211833u6e4ff80cw5155368765e5db5b@mail.gmail.com> <cough>kubuntu<cough> 2009/4/20 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk> > Hi guys, > > Quick reminder about the informal shindig. > > Ubuntu Jaunty Jackalope release party this Friday evening @ RvB. Plenty of > entertainment on hand > > Posted a non-FB page: > http://auck-jauntyrelease.blogspot.com/ > > I'll start downloading the ISO's as soon as I can. (pls recommend ISO's of > choice) > Anyone wanting to distribute/sell USB or DVD/CD's to load distro's on are > welcome to do so (we tried this @ the SFD, with muted results), or BYO > > Cheers > > - Jaco > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From juanvr at live.com Wed Apr 22 14:04:27 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan .) Date: Wed Apr 22 14:07:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Reminder: Jaunty Jackalope Release Party In-Reply-To: <d69be7e20904211833u6e4ff80cw5155368765e5db5b@mail.gmail.com> References: <946985.11256.qm@web26106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <d69be7e20904211833u6e4ff80cw5155368765e5db5b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <COL104-W64B76DD2E4BFD9A39D4093B7740@phx.gbl> Standard Ubuntu would be great... 64bit would be even better ;) > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:33:29 +1200 > From: thetoolman@gmail.com > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Reminder: Jaunty Jackalope Release Party > > <cough>kubuntu<cough> > > 2009/4/20 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk> > > > Hi guys, > > > > Quick reminder about the informal shindig. > > > > Ubuntu Jaunty Jackalope release party this Friday evening @ RvB. Plenty of > > entertainment on hand > > > > Posted a non-FB page: > > http://auck-jauntyrelease.blogspot.com/ > > > > I'll start downloading the ISO's as soon as I can. (pls recommend ISO's of > > choice) > > Anyone wanting to distribute/sell USB or DVD/CD's to load distro's on are > > welcome to do so (we tried this @ the SFD, with muted results), or BYO > > > > Cheers > > > > - Jaco > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > > > -- > Tim Taylor > +64 21 0541287 > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug _________________________________________________________________ Earning enough? Find out with SEEK Salary Survey http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsalarysurvey%2Emsn%2Eseek%2Eco%2Enz%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Atl%3Asknzsal%3Amsnnz%3A0%3Ahottag%3Aearn%5Fenough&_t=757263783&_r=Seek_NZ_tagline&_m=EXT From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 23 12:24:26 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Apr 23 12:27:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Reminder: Jaunty Jackalope Release Party Message-ID: <314398.56725.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <quote> <cough>kubuntu<cough> 64 std </quote> Planning on doing 32 & 64 bit of Ubuntu & Kubuntu, Desktop & Server & mini (if available in time) * Kubuntu 32 desktop (bells & whistles WOW! factor) * 64 Ubuntu Server, for serious work & VM (what I'm now involved in) * 32 & 64 Desktop, for the everyday-Joe * Remix (for netbooks) Any others that are high on the list/nice-to-have (ie. alternatives)? Unfortunately the DVD candidates wou'nt be out for quite some time. Would save fellas time & bandwidth in downloading. Be sure to bring media: USB drives & CD's/DVD's (I bought a pack of 10 CD's for the occasion). You're welcome to sell for profit. I'll be bringing my eee 701 for install demo (my 1st try in Jaunty) & copying I have an external USB IDE chassis w CD-R drive. If anyone's interested in doing DVD's, please bring a drive & media. I'll also bring some other nifty ISO's I have stored, so if you want any other OS's or want to distribute your own preference, you're welcome Some PDF books & 'Zines avaialble on request Please feel free to bring your partners & mates, even if they're not all that into GNU/Linux - J From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 23 12:28:16 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Apr 23 12:31:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG Message-ID: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <quote> And of course, there's the other half of this: any volunteers to present topics? </quote> I'd be happy to help out where & how I can. Suggestion: VoIP. setting up & config a box from start to finish. (I'm having a very hard time w FreeSwitch) Details & considerations Bit out of my depth here... - J From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Thu Apr 23 13:48:20 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Thu Apr 23 13:51:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> I'm more than happy to assist in that respect with relation to Asterisk & FreePBX? Is there anything in particular that people would like to know about it? I can demo live-working boxes etc if there's internet available? On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk>wrote: > > <quote> > And of course, there's the other half of this: any volunteers to present > topics? > </quote> > > I'd be happy to help out where & how I can. > > Suggestion: VoIP. setting up & config a box from start to finish. (I'm > having a very hard time w FreeSwitch) > Details & considerations > > Bit out of my depth here... > > - J > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Thu Apr 23 15:02:12 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Thu Apr 23 15:05:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> Thinking a little more about it, perhaps if I were to do one, we'll call it "VoIP / asterisk basics 101" Lightly covering all the following points, which should be enough to get everybody running home to try it out: Different distros, elastix vs trixbox vs asteriskNOW vs vanilla asterisk running on whatever (No distrowars please) Basic FreePBX setup Capabilities of FreePBX Endpoint devices Choosing a VTSP Setting up SIP lines Inbound & Outbound routes Ring Groups & IVR's IAX2 vs SIP Codecs QoS Number porting Preperation for your own asterisk server at home Common "gotchas" And I'm sure we can squeeze in a Q&A time afterwards ;-) Ideally if there's Internet access, I'm happy to bring along the likes of an SPA942 / SPA962 / HT-486 and give people the chance to hear the difference between codecs, quality, stuff like that. Is 30 minutes + Q&A going to be too long? Before I go definitely doing something like this, is it something the AuckLUG'ers would be interested in? On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Chilling_Silence < Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > I'm more than happy to assist in that respect with relation to Asterisk & > FreePBX? > > Is there anything in particular that people would like to know about it? I > can demo live-working boxes etc if there's internet available? > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jaco van der Merwe < > freakalad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> >> <quote> >> And of course, there's the other half of this: any volunteers to present >> topics? >> </quote> >> >> I'd be happy to help out where & how I can. >> >> Suggestion: VoIP. setting up & config a box from start to finish. (I'm >> having a very hard time w FreeSwitch) >> Details & considerations >> >> Bit out of my depth here... >> >> - J > > From greg at primesoft.co.nz Thu Apr 23 15:15:08 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Thu Apr 23 15:19:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> You'll never cover all of that in that time but I'd be interested if you could. If it is 4th of May unfortunately i have a meeting that night :( -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Chilling_Silence Sent: Thursday, 23 April 2009 3:02 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG Thinking a little more about it, perhaps if I were to do one, we'll call it "VoIP / asterisk basics 101" Lightly covering all the following points, which should be enough to get everybody running home to try it out: Different distros, elastix vs trixbox vs asteriskNOW vs vanilla asterisk running on whatever (No distrowars please) Basic FreePBX setup Capabilities of FreePBX Endpoint devices Choosing a VTSP Setting up SIP lines Inbound & Outbound routes Ring Groups & IVR's IAX2 vs SIP Codecs QoS Number porting Preperation for your own asterisk server at home Common "gotchas" And I'm sure we can squeeze in a Q&A time afterwards ;-) Ideally if there's Internet access, I'm happy to bring along the likes of an SPA942 / SPA962 / HT-486 and give people the chance to hear the difference between codecs, quality, stuff like that. Is 30 minutes + Q&A going to be too long? Before I go definitely doing something like this, is it something the AuckLUG'ers would be interested in? On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Chilling_Silence < Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > I'm more than happy to assist in that respect with relation to Asterisk & > FreePBX? > > Is there anything in particular that people would like to know about it? I > can demo live-working boxes etc if there's internet available? > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jaco van der Merwe < > freakalad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> >> <quote> >> And of course, there's the other half of this: any volunteers to present >> topics? >> </quote> >> >> I'd be happy to help out where & how I can. >> >> Suggestion: VoIP. setting up & config a box from start to finish. (I'm >> having a very hard time w FreeSwitch) >> Details & considerations >> >> Bit out of my depth here... >> >> - J > > _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Thu Apr 23 15:59:44 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Thu Apr 23 16:03:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> Message-ID: <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> Starwars day! You'd be surprised what you can cover, will naturally use slideshows & live GUIs to help demonstrate, but I worry it'll be information overload. Could always do a two-part'er if there's enough interest in it, the basics, then a few more slightly advanced things? On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Greg Stevenson <greg@primesoft.co.nz>wrote: > You'll never cover all of that in that time but I'd be interested if you > could. > If it is 4th of May unfortunately i have a meeting that night :( > > -----Original Message----- > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > On > Behalf Of Chilling_Silence > Sent: Thursday, 23 April 2009 3:02 p.m. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG > > Thinking a little more about it, perhaps if I were to do one, we'll call it > "VoIP / asterisk basics 101" > Lightly covering all the following points, which should be enough to get > everybody running home to try it out: > Different distros, elastix vs trixbox vs asteriskNOW vs vanilla asterisk > running on whatever (No distrowars please) > Basic FreePBX setup > Capabilities of FreePBX > Endpoint devices > Choosing a VTSP > Setting up SIP lines > Inbound & Outbound routes > Ring Groups & IVR's > IAX2 vs SIP > Codecs > QoS > Number porting > Preperation for your own asterisk server at home > Common "gotchas" > And I'm sure we can squeeze in a Q&A time afterwards ;-) > > Ideally if there's Internet access, I'm happy to bring along the likes of > an > SPA942 / SPA962 / HT-486 and give people the chance to hear the difference > between codecs, quality, stuff like that. > > Is 30 minutes + Q&A going to be too long? > > Before I go definitely doing something like this, is it something the > AuckLUG'ers would be interested in? > > From greg at primesoft.co.nz Thu Apr 23 17:56:36 2009 From: greg at primesoft.co.nz (Greg Stevenson) Date: Thu Apr 23 18:01:11 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005201c9c3d8$43638e40$ca2aaac0$@co.nz> Place, Date and time please anyone confirm? -----Original Message----- From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] On Behalf Of Chilling_Silence Sent: Thursday, 23 April 2009 4:00 p.m. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG Starwars day! You'd be surprised what you can cover, will naturally use slideshows & live GUIs to help demonstrate, but I worry it'll be information overload. Could always do a two-part'er if there's enough interest in it, the basics, then a few more slightly advanced things? On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Greg Stevenson <greg@primesoft.co.nz>wrote: > You'll never cover all of that in that time but I'd be interested if you > could. > If it is 4th of May unfortunately i have a meeting that night :( > > -----Original Message----- > From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] > On > Behalf Of Chilling_Silence > Sent: Thursday, 23 April 2009 3:02 p.m. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG > > Thinking a little more about it, perhaps if I were to do one, we'll call it > "VoIP / asterisk basics 101" > Lightly covering all the following points, which should be enough to get > everybody running home to try it out: > Different distros, elastix vs trixbox vs asteriskNOW vs vanilla asterisk > running on whatever (No distrowars please) > Basic FreePBX setup > Capabilities of FreePBX > Endpoint devices > Choosing a VTSP > Setting up SIP lines > Inbound & Outbound routes > Ring Groups & IVR's > IAX2 vs SIP > Codecs > QoS > Number porting > Preperation for your own asterisk server at home > Common "gotchas" > And I'm sure we can squeeze in a Q&A time afterwards ;-) > > Ideally if there's Internet access, I'm happy to bring along the likes of > an > SPA942 / SPA962 / HT-486 and give people the chance to hear the difference > between codecs, quality, stuff like that. > > Is 30 minutes + Q&A going to be too long? > > Before I go definitely doing something like this, is it something the > AuckLUG'ers would be interested in? > > _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 20:44:35 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Apr 23 20:48:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> Sounds like a plan. I'd be inclined to do as much of a "starter pack" for the first meeting and if there is interest in more, then chose a subset of topics and go into them in more depth for subsequent meetings. On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Chilling_Silence <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > Starwars day! > > You'd be surprised what you can cover, will naturally use slideshows & live > GUIs to help demonstrate, but I worry it'll be information overload. > > Could always do a two-part'er if there's enough interest in it, the basics, > then a few more slightly advanced things? > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Greg Stevenson <greg@primesoft.co.nz>wrote: > >> You'll never cover all of that in that time but I'd be interested if you >> could. >> If it is 4th of May unfortunately i have a meeting that night :( >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz] >> On >> Behalf Of Chilling_Silence >> Sent: Thursday, 23 April 2009 3:02 p.m. >> To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list >> Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG >> >> Thinking a little more about it, perhaps if I were to do one, we'll call it >> "VoIP / asterisk basics 101" >> Lightly covering all the following points, which should be enough to get >> everybody running home to try it out: >> Different distros, elastix vs trixbox vs asteriskNOW vs vanilla asterisk >> running on whatever (No distrowars please) >> Basic FreePBX setup >> Capabilities of FreePBX >> Endpoint devices >> Choosing a VTSP >> Setting up SIP lines >> Inbound & Outbound routes >> Ring Groups & IVR's >> IAX2 vs SIP >> Codecs >> QoS >> Number porting >> Preperation for your own asterisk server at home >> Common "gotchas" >> And I'm sure we can squeeze in a Q&A time afterwards ;-) >> >> Ideally if there's Internet access, I'm happy to bring along the likes of >> an >> SPA942 / SPA962 / HT-486 and give people the chance to hear the difference >> between codecs, quality, stuff like that. >> >> Is 30 minutes + Q&A going to be too long? >> >> Before I go definitely doing something like this, is it something the >> AuckLUG'ers would be interested in? >> >> > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Fri Apr 24 01:08:25 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Fri Apr 24 01:12:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> Good idea! The *real* basics first, and if there's some real interest I could always do more another time! Side note: PCWorld are running an article on VoIP in next months issue, out in a few days. Unsure what the content is, but yeah :) On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > Sounds like a plan. I'd be inclined to do as much of a "starter pack" > for the first meeting and if there is interest in more, then chose a > subset of topics and go into them in more depth for subsequent > meetings. > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Chilling_Silence > <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > > Starwars day! > > > > You'd be surprised what you can cover, will naturally use slideshows & > live > > GUIs to help demonstrate, but I worry it'll be information overload. > > > > Could always do a two-part'er if there's enough interest in it, the > basics, > > then a few more slightly advanced things? > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Greg Stevenson <greg@primesoft.co.nz > >wrote: > > > >> You'll never cover all of that in that time but I'd be interested if you > >> could. > >> If it is 4th of May unfortunately i have a meeting that night :( > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz [mailto:aucklug-bounces@linux.net.nz > ] > >> On > >> Behalf Of Chilling_Silence > >> Sent: Thursday, 23 April 2009 3:02 p.m. > >> To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG > >> > >> Thinking a little more about it, perhaps if I were to do one, we'll call > it > >> "VoIP / asterisk basics 101" > >> Lightly covering all the following points, which should be enough to get > >> everybody running home to try it out: > >> Different distros, elastix vs trixbox vs asteriskNOW vs vanilla asterisk > >> running on whatever (No distrowars please) > >> Basic FreePBX setup > >> Capabilities of FreePBX > >> Endpoint devices > >> Choosing a VTSP > >> Setting up SIP lines > >> Inbound & Outbound routes > >> Ring Groups & IVR's > >> IAX2 vs SIP > >> Codecs > >> QoS > >> Number porting > >> Preperation for your own asterisk server at home > >> Common "gotchas" > >> And I'm sure we can squeeze in a Q&A time afterwards ;-) > >> > >> Ideally if there's Internet access, I'm happy to bring along the likes > of > >> an > >> SPA942 / SPA962 / HT-486 and give people the chance to hear the > difference > >> between codecs, quality, stuff like that. > >> > >> Is 30 minutes + Q&A going to be too long? > >> > >> Before I go definitely doing something like this, is it something the > >> AuckLUG'ers would be interested in? > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From belfast_irish2000 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 24 16:48:47 2009 From: belfast_irish2000 at yahoo.com (Brian) Date: Fri Apr 24 16:52:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Newbie Message-ID: <600254.38275.qm@web56603.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi All, I have been on the mailing list for a while and would like to come to the next meeting and any demos ect. When is the next meeting? Cheers Brian Get the world's best email - http://nz.mail.yahoo.com/ From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Apr 24 17:07:20 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Apr 24 17:10:48 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Newbie Message-ID: <881298.91866.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <quote> I have been on the mailing list for a while and would like to come to the next meeting and any demos ect. When is the next meeting? </quote> Welcome Brian, We're having a Jaunty Release party tonight, so feel free to join us: http://auck-jauntyrelease.blogspot.com/ Bring some storage media for distros & goodies We hope to have regular gatherings on the 1st Monday of the month, subject to change & confirmation. We'll likely touch on VoIP on the next meeting (Asterisk) Watch this space for more details as they develop - J From josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz Fri Apr 24 18:43:05 2009 From: josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz (JHB) Date: Fri Apr 24 18:49:05 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> Chilling_Silence wrote: > Good idea! The *real* basics first, and if there's some real interest I > could always do more another time! > Side note: PCWorld are running an article on VoIP in next months issue, out > in a few days. Unsure what the content is, but yeah :) > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Sounds like a plan. I'd be inclined to do as much of a "starter pack" >> for the first meeting and if there is interest in more, then chose a >> subset of topics and go into them in more depth for subsequent >> meetings. >> snip Any chance of this being recorded in some manner? I would love to learn more about VoIP but have a conflicting appointment most of this year with Monday nights. JHB From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 21:01:22 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Apr 24 21:04:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Newbie In-Reply-To: <600254.38275.qm@web56603.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <600254.38275.qm@web56603.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904240201x3e70f3fav9b6aa473bd4551d8@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Brian <belfast_irish2000@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > I have been on the mailing list for a while and would like to come to the next meeting and any demos ect. > When is the next meeting? > > Cheers > Brian Hi Brian, Not to contradict Jaco - but Martin DOES organise a meeting for every first Monday of the month and tends to let us know if there are any problems. In other words, there IS a meeting every month at the moment. We did have a patch last year where meetings weren't happening but this can be considered a hiccup. Meanwhile, the Jaunty Release Party, as far as I know isn't an official AuckLUG meeting in anyway whatsoever. It may be of interest to the members of this group but that doesn't make it a AuckLUG event. Regards, Nevyn. From nevynh at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 21:07:45 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Fri Apr 24 21:11:29 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM, JHB <josephhenryblack@yahoo.co.nz> wrote: > Chilling_Silence wrote: >> >> Good idea! The *real* basics first, and if there's some real interest I >> could always do more another time! >> Side note: PCWorld are running an article on VoIP in next months issue, >> out >> in a few days. Unsure what the content is, but yeah :) >> > > snip > Any chance of this being recorded in some manner? I would love to learn more > about VoIP but have a conflicting appointment most of this year with Monday > nights. > > > JHB Joel was recording meetings a few years ago. He'd set up at the back of the room, and due to various technical difficulties, would get at least half the presentation recorded. Unfortunately no one has taken up the mantle. Does anyone want to volunteer for this? As well as recording it, some channel for distributing the video needs to be found (Torrent?). Regards, Nevyn. From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 21:17:16 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Fri Apr 24 21:20:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> Would it be possible for the recording when done to be changed to a transcript and be available for download somewhere some of us may have hearing difficulty? Kevin 2009/4/24 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM, JHB <josephhenryblack@yahoo.co.nz> wrote: > > Chilling_Silence wrote: > >> > >> Good idea! The *real* basics first, and if there's some real interest I > >> could always do more another time! > >> Side note: PCWorld are running an article on VoIP in next months issue, > >> out > >> in a few days. Unsure what the content is, but yeah :) > >> > > > > snip > > Any chance of this being recorded in some manner? I would love to learn > more > > about VoIP but have a conflicting appointment most of this year with > Monday > > nights. > > > > > > JHB > > Joel was recording meetings a few years ago. He'd set up at the back > of the room, and due to various technical difficulties, would get at > least half the presentation recorded. Unfortunately no one has taken > up the mantle. > > Does anyone want to volunteer for this? As well as recording it, some > channel for distributing the video needs to be found (Torrent?). > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 06:41:49 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sat Apr 25 06:45:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904221848w5b8f894rcdc10307258c1638@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904241141q3005ef89idffeaffc2cbf1150@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Kevin Adams <candle.man.nz@gmail.com> wrote: > Would it be possible for the recording when done to be changed to a > transcript and be > available for download somewhere some of us may have hearing difficulty? > > Kevin Steady on. We don't have someone to record it yet... From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Sat Apr 25 11:23:27 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Sat Apr 25 11:35:11 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904241141q3005ef89idffeaffc2cbf1150@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904222002u7deb09a9o420569369c6ca2c8@mail.gmail.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904241141q3005ef89idffeaffc2cbf1150@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40904241623y2fc9d56bk5abf0db3bab4aa2a@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Kevin Adams <candle.man.nz@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Would it be possible for the recording when done to be changed to a > > transcript and be > > available for download somewhere some of us may have hearing difficulty? > > > > Kevin > > Steady on. We don't have someone to record it yet... > I'll be making a slideshow of some description which will hopefully have the bulk of information required, and simply expanding on that. The slideshow I can chuck up online after the evening. Worst-case scenario I could always just record with my iPhone? Is there any chance somebody has a machine that I could use to run the slideshow? Ive sold all my laptops and EeePCs recently... From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 12:17:05 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Sat Apr 25 12:20:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904241623y2fc9d56bk5abf0db3bab4aa2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <003101c9c3c1$b4fc2e20$1ef48a60$@co.nz> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904241141q3005ef89idffeaffc2cbf1150@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904241623y2fc9d56bk5abf0db3bab4aa2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920904241717g30056af4tbfe561ee2787e34c@mail.gmail.com> Sorry Nevyn, I was just looking after myself - the availability of a slideshow sounds great, I am at a great disadvantage at meetings. Kevin 2009/4/25 Chilling_Silence <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Kevin Adams <candle.man.nz@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > Would it be possible for the recording when done to be changed to a > > > transcript and be > > > available for download somewhere some of us may have hearing > difficulty? > > > > > > Kevin > > > > Steady on. We don't have someone to record it yet... > > > > I'll be making a slideshow of some description which will hopefully have > the > bulk of information required, and simply expanding on that. The slideshow I > can chuck up online after the evening. > > Worst-case scenario I could always just record with my iPhone? > > Is there any chance somebody has a machine that I could use to run the > slideshow? Ive sold all my laptops and EeePCs recently... > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 12:42:52 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Sat Apr 25 12:46:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <5b6001920904241717g30056af4tbfe561ee2787e34c@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904222059p3bca23b8yfa98251a1c1194cd@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904241141q3005ef89idffeaffc2cbf1150@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904241623y2fc9d56bk5abf0db3bab4aa2a@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904241717g30056af4tbfe561ee2787e34c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920904241742k4372cef2wa88d69caaa8d2922@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps one could talk to Jaco, the hardware etc he had for his release party would be great for having the slideshow on. And a downloadable slideshow afterward would top it off especially for those who are not able to attend meetings. Kevin 2009/4/25 Kevin Adams <candle.man.nz@gmail.com> > Sorry Nevyn, I was just looking after myself - the availability of a > slideshow sounds great, I am at a great disadvantage at meetings. > > Kevin > > 2009/4/25 Chilling_Silence <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Kevin Adams <candle.man.nz@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > > Would it be possible for the recording when done to be changed to a >> > > transcript and be >> > > available for download somewhere some of us may have hearing >> difficulty? >> > > >> > > Kevin >> > >> > Steady on. We don't have someone to record it yet... >> > >> >> I'll be making a slideshow of some description which will hopefully have >> the >> bulk of information required, and simply expanding on that. The slideshow >> I >> can chuck up online after the evening. >> >> Worst-case scenario I could always just record with my iPhone? >> >> Is there any chance somebody has a machine that I could use to run the >> slideshow? Ive sold all my laptops and EeePCs recently... >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Sat Apr 25 15:32:20 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Sat Apr 25 15:35:49 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <5b6001920904241742k4372cef2wa88d69caaa8d2922@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <bcdb9ee50904230144h150b5724i9982b8b8eae93fd9@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904241141q3005ef89idffeaffc2cbf1150@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904241623y2fc9d56bk5abf0db3bab4aa2a@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904241717g30056af4tbfe561ee2787e34c@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904241742k4372cef2wa88d69caaa8d2922@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> Absolutely :) Slideshow and potentially a recording will be online. The plan is to bring some printed copies of the slides as well, you never know... So, just to confirm, I am actually expected to do this? Monday the 4th of May? On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Kevin Adams <candle.man.nz@gmail.com>wrote: > Perhaps one could talk to Jaco, the hardware etc he had for his release > party would be great for having the slideshow on. And a downloadable > slideshow afterward would top it off especially for those who are not able > to attend meetings. > > Kevin From nevynh at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 17:30:06 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sat Apr 25 17:33:37 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904230608n1bdbf23m8c8c9f49e356e9a5@mail.gmail.com> <49F15F79.1030202@yahoo.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904240207w164060ffo1bad47260f41f77e@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904240217g1b99e4c3l1a3715e6992d9ee0@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904241141q3005ef89idffeaffc2cbf1150@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904241623y2fc9d56bk5abf0db3bab4aa2a@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904241717g30056af4tbfe561ee2787e34c@mail.gmail.com> <5b6001920904241742k4372cef2wa88d69caaa8d2922@mail.gmail.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> So long as Glen Ogilvie can confirm the venue I don't see why not. On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Chilling_Silence <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > Absolutely :) > Slideshow and potentially a recording will be online. > > The plan is to bring some printed copies of the slides as well, you never > know... > > So, just to confirm, I am actually expected to do this? Monday the 4th of > May? From gordonisnz at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 02:06:28 2009 From: gordonisnz at gmail.com (Gordon Stewart) Date: Sun Apr 26 02:09:58 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user Message-ID: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> Hi.. I'm new to linux. Takapuna North Shore... and have a few questions 1) do we obtain linux (ubuntu) disks from PC shops ? & which is best - I hear Ubuntu is best. 2) How easy is it to install ? I had a Ubuntu disk sent to me from USA - about 12 months ago, but it didn't install correctly.... (tried several times) 3) How much disk space do we need to partition off ? (I'm running Windows XP Service pack 3) I havn't partitioned before, but From what I read,m its not too difficult.... Thank you -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AucklandFreecycle/ From simon at simongreen.name Sun Apr 26 03:10:44 2009 From: simon at simongreen.name (Simon Green) Date: Sun Apr 26 03:14:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4d1940c20904250810q25bd8cfey8ffcdd1c0e14e2d3@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/26 Gordon Stewart <gordonisnz@gmail.com>: > Hi.. > > I'm new to linux. Takapuna North Shore... Kia ora > and have a few questions > > 1) do we obtain linux (ubuntu) disks from PC shops ? & which is best - > I hear Ubuntu is best. For first time users, I'd recommend Ubuntu. A new version of Ubuntu was released on Friday (Ubuntu 9.04), which you can download from www.ubuntu.com. If you are unable to download the CD (about 700MB), then Takapuna Dick Smiths have a copy of Ubuntu 8.04 > 2) How easy is it to install ? ?I had a Ubuntu disk sent to me from > USA - about 12 months ago, but it didn't install correctly.... (tried > several times) It is quiet easy to install, especially if you know about partitioning (which by the below question I assume you know). The rest of the questions are about location, and user / machine name. > 3) How ?much disk space do we need to partition off ? (I'm running > Windows XP Service pack 3) Depends on what you plan to use the machine for. The base Ubuntu install is ~2GB, so I would recommend a minimum of 10GB. You can always repartition the space later. > I havn't partitioned before, but From what I read,m its not too difficult.... It's not overly complicated, and the installation GUI makes it easy to configure as needed. -- simon From unclerichard at xtra.co.nz Sun Apr 26 07:25:26 2009 From: unclerichard at xtra.co.nz (R Innes) Date: Sun Apr 26 07:28:59 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49F363A6.4080407@xtra.co.nz> Gordon Stewart wrote: > Hi.. > > I'm new to linux. Takapuna North Shore... > > and have a few questions > > 1) do we obtain linux (ubuntu) disks from PC shops ? & which is best - > I hear Ubuntu is best. > No, you can order them from Ubuntu, they're free but it takes time. You can download them from Ubuntu com and burn an 'image' disc to install from. If you feel uneasy/nervous about this I can help you with the disc (or someone else will) > 2) How easy is it to install ? I had a Ubuntu disk sent to me from > USA - about 12 months ago, but it didn't install correctly.... (tried > several times) > With Ubuntu easier than most, but there are still a few gotchas for newbies mostly related to ... > 3) How much disk space do we need to partition off ? (I'm running > Windows XP Service pack 3) > > I havn't partitioned before, but From what I read,m its not too difficult.... > ... partitioning. The default works for most people but depending on what you do with each OS (XP and Linux) a different partition arrangement might be better. I run two boxes one dual boting Vista and Ubuntu, the other XP and Suse. I am a great fan of dual booting rather than running Linux within Windows or through visualization. I find dual booting gives you the greatest flexibility. While I use Linux extensively, Linux does have its limitations so I recommend people to dual boot and give themselves the best of both worlds. I live on the Shore, and only to happy help you with the set up, as a beginner, you may want to try Mint first, it is a dumbed down version of Ubuntu that 'works out of the box" and is more easily operated by someone coming from XP. Richard I > > Thank you > > From sbwithers at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 07:49:48 2009 From: sbwithers at gmail.com (Steve Withers) Date: Sun Apr 26 07:53:41 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <BA04FB6D-5E96-43AE-B0E4-D1315B0AE5BD@gmail.com> Hi Gordon I'm on the North Shore too. Happy to help. You get Ubuntu by downloading a CD image file from ubuntu.com and writing it to CD-R or CD-RW. Then you boot from the CD. Ubuntu should offer to auto-magically move your Windows system over (by shaving some space off it) and make room for Linux. I prefer to instead add a second disc before installing Linux and not disturb Windows in order to leave Windows with whatever space it had before. Steve Sent from my iPod On Apr 26, 2009, at 2:06, Gordon Stewart <gordonisnz@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi.. > > I'm new to linux. Takapuna North Shore... > > and have a few questions > > 1) do we obtain linux (ubuntu) disks from PC shops ? & which is best - > I hear Ubuntu is best. > > 2) How easy is it to install ? I had a Ubuntu disk sent to me from > USA - about 12 months ago, but it didn't install correctly.... (tried > several times) > > 3) How much disk space do we need to partition off ? (I'm running > Windows XP Service pack 3) > > I havn't partitioned before, but From what I read,m its not too > difficult.... > > > Thank you > > -- > G > Freecycle Auckland :- > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AucklandFreecycle/ > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 12:32:45 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Sun Apr 26 12:36:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <BA04FB6D-5E96-43AE-B0E4-D1315B0AE5BD@gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <BA04FB6D-5E96-43AE-B0E4-D1315B0AE5BD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904251732o25ae86dy2185714782fbb88b@mail.gmail.com> Quite often the best way to get a Linux distribution is to get it off someone else :) You quite often save your bandwidth and/or money. On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Steve Withers <sbwithers@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Gordon > > I'm on the North Shore too. Happy to help. You get Ubuntu by downloading a > CD image file from ubuntu.com and writing it to CD-R or CD-RW. > > Then you boot from the CD. Ubuntu should offer to auto-magically move your > Windows system over (by shaving some space off it) and make room for Linux. > I prefer to instead add a second disc before installing Linux and not > disturb Windows in order to leave Windows with whatever space it had before. > > Steve > > Sent from my iPod From kiirani at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 13:00:25 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Sun Apr 26 13:03:57 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/26 Gordon Stewart <gordonisnz@gmail.com>: > Hi.. > > I'm new to linux. Takapuna North Shore... > > and have a few questions > > 1) do we obtain linux (ubuntu) disks from PC shops ? & which is best - > I hear Ubuntu is best. I'm going to give you a sage piece of advice Gordon. Never, ever, ever ask a group of linux users on the 'net which distribution is "best" :) The only reason you haven't started a civil war here is these people are a bunch of ubuntu heathens. ;) > 2) How easy is it to install ? I had a Ubuntu disk sent to me from > USA - about 12 months ago, but it didn't install correctly.... (tried > several times) Ubuntu's the generally accepted "newbie" distribution, but newbies tend to run into a few problems installing it. What I think people forget is when you get a windows or mac machine, the OS is coming pre-installed by "experts" on hardware that was built to support that OS... Then you mess around with putting a different operating system on that hardware, you're bound to run into some minor problems... If someone wanted to try and install OSX on a PC, or windows on a Mac, they'd expect this... But for some reason nobody does when they install the equivalent linux distros! What I'd suggest is getting the latest version of ubuntu, as each release will improve hardware compatibility... Then if(when?) something goes wrong, if you're having trouble get an experienced user to come round and take a look. All the problems people run into are generally really easy to fix, but unfortunately a 'foolproof' installation process doesn't really give new users the right troubleshooting skills off the bat. (Also, I think arch is the "best" distribution, but I don't recommend you install that first time around :P) From balaji.vp at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 13:14:51 2009 From: balaji.vp at gmail.com (Balaji VP) Date: Sun Apr 26 13:18:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904251732o25ae86dy2185714782fbb88b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <BA04FB6D-5E96-43AE-B0E4-D1315B0AE5BD@gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904251732o25ae86dy2185714782fbb88b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <d3f2cc060904251814i49edfa09vd301a7ca3304d74a@mail.gmail.com> You can request a Free CD from Ubuntu.com - Here is the link *Request a free CD* <https://shipit.ubuntu.com/> - Request a free Ubuntu, Edubuntu or Kubuntu CD from Canonical. Delivery typically takes 6-10 weeks ( you are patient enough to wait that long) -- V.P.Balaji.,B.Sc.,GradDipInfSci.,(B.L)., On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > Quite often the best way to get a Linux distribution is to get it off > someone else :) You quite often save your bandwidth and/or money. > > On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Steve Withers <sbwithers@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Gordon > > > > I'm on the North Shore too. Happy to help. You get Ubuntu by downloading > a > > CD image file from ubuntu.com and writing it to CD-R or CD-RW. > > > > Then you boot from the CD. Ubuntu should offer to auto-magically move > your > > Windows system over (by shaving some space off it) and make room for > Linux. > > I prefer to instead add a second disc before installing Linux and not > > disturb Windows in order to leave Windows with whatever space it had > before. > > > > Steve > > > > Sent from my iPod > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From mingdie at xtra.co.nz Sun Apr 26 14:11:20 2009 From: mingdie at xtra.co.nz (Eddie, Ingela & Mikael Johannisson) Date: Sun Apr 26 14:14:59 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Another beginner Message-ID: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> Hi Guys I saw the post from Gordon and living on the shore and also in the process of installing Linux for the first time I have a question. I will install Linux on a separate computer so there is no need for partition. I saw that you recommend Ubuntu for beginners but I was told that Opensuse was also a good start. I have a disc with the Opensuse 11.1 but after reading your recommendations I hesitate what to use. I will mostly use the Linux computer for photos (Gimp, UFRaw) the net (Firefox, Thunderbird) and for documents (Open office) which are all programs I am using on my windows computer.. Which OS should I start with? Cheers Eddie From sbwithers at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 14:46:03 2009 From: sbwithers at gmail.com (Steve Withers) Date: Sun Apr 26 14:49:54 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Another beginner In-Reply-To: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> References: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <59F7ED4E-757E-4CEB-9125-1CB7A56F4433@gmail.com> OpenSuSe or Ubuntu: It doesn't really matter from an application point of view. They are bothmajor Linux distributions. You may wish to use Ubuntu simply because many others nearby do too. Sent from my iPod On Apr 26, 2009, at 14:11, "Eddie, Ingela & Mikael Johannisson" <mingdie@xtra.co.nz > wrote: > Hi Guys > > I saw the post from Gordon and living on the shore and also in the > process of installing Linux for the first time I have a question. I > will install Linux on a separate computer so there is no need for > partition. I saw that you recommend Ubuntu for beginners but I was > told that Opensuse was also a good start. > I have a disc with the Opensuse 11.1 but after reading your > recommendations I hesitate what to use. I will mostly use the Linux > computer for photos (Gimp, UFRaw) the net (Firefox, Thunderbird) and > for documents (Open office) which are all programs I am using on my > windows computer.. > Which OS should I start with? > > Cheers > Eddie > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From gordonisnz at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 15:10:55 2009 From: gordonisnz at gmail.com (Gordon Stewart) Date: Sun Apr 26 15:14:24 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <49F363A6.4080407@xtra.co.nz> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <49F363A6.4080407@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <9a3273a00904252010h1bfc62e1x342f68b0b9091595@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:25 AM, R Innes <unclerichard@xtra.co.nz> wrote: >> 3) How ?much disk space do we need to partition off ? (I'm running >> Windows XP Service pack 3) >> >> I havn't partitioned before, but From what I read,m its not too >> difficult.... > ... partitioning. The default works for most people but depending on what > you do with each OS (XP and Linux) a different partition arrangement might > be better. Basically I've got two hard drives - C & D Windows XP has all the system info etc on D drive, & C drive is just storage... C drive = 19 gigs with 10 gigs free space... D drive = 17 gigs, 1.5 gig free... though, C drive has a LOT of things on it, I rarely use - So may go through it soon & see whats up... (I *think* C drive has Windows on it, but D drive has my Windows XP.. - So I could delete C drive files) - Other than that C drive contains a lot of my ex-flatmates music (Havn't deleted them yet..) Basically, I mainly use PC for internet use, & designing websites. Right now my major site I'm doing, I just upload to the net, & one of the admins "packages" the information, for me & transfers it from the development server to the "preview" / "Live" servers.... He recommended I install linux, & learn how to package things myself - Then I can do a lot more for the website without waiting for others to do the next steps... > I live on the Shore, and only to happy help you with the set up, as a > beginner, you may want to try Mint first, it is a dumbed down version of > Ubuntu that 'works out of the box" and is more easily operated by someone > coming from XP. Ok, Sounds good if ether you / Steve can help... (seen his message after..) Or should I check C drive first - & remove the junk (or the old Windows ?) NOTE :- I also have a wireless keyboard, & on bootup, I'm giving the choice of going to the old version, or the new version of windows. - But, as the keyboard doesn't activate until after windows starts, its pretty pointless in that step... -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AucklandFreecycle/ From daniel at rimspace.net Sun Apr 26 16:10:26 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Sun Apr 26 16:14:03 2009 Subject: Why arch? (was Re: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user) In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> (Kennedy Skelton's message of "Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:00:25 +1200") References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: [...] > (Also, I think arch is the "best" distribution, but I don't recommend > you install that first time around :P) A number of people, obviously including you, have advocated Arch Linux recently[1], and I am curious to know why you like Arch. Having looked over the information on the project website, etc, I can't see the compelling advantage of it, but it is naturally hard for the soft benefits to show up there. :) So, if you don't mind, why do you like Arch, and how does it improve over the more major distributions? Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] Not just on this list, but generally around the traps. From blakjak at blakjak.net Sun Apr 26 16:48:12 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Sun Apr 26 16:51:50 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00904252010h1bfc62e1x342f68b0b9091595@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <49F363A6.4080407@xtra.co.nz> <9a3273a00904252010h1bfc62e1x342f68b0b9091595@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0904261644220.4368@skyhawk.blakjak.net> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Gordon Stewart wrote: > On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:25 AM, R Innes <unclerichard@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > >>> 3) How ?much disk space do we need to partition off ? (I'm running >>> Windows XP Service pack 3) >>> >>> I havn't partitioned before, but From what I read,m its not too >>> difficult.... > >> ... partitioning. The default works for most people but depending on what >> you do with each OS (XP and Linux) a different partition arrangement might >> be better. > > Basically I've got two hard drives - C & D > Windows XP has all the system info etc on D drive, & C drive is just > storage... > > C drive = 19 gigs with 10 gigs free space... > D drive = 17 gigs, 1.5 gig free... Hi Gordon, a small point; The terms 'C-Drive' and 'D-Drive' are very windows centric - and they don't explain whether you're talking about seperate physical disks, or simply partitions on a single disk. Do you have one drive ~40GB or two of ~20GB? > Or should I check C drive first - & remove the junk (or the old Windows ?) > A potentially useful theory would be to have your Windows machine running predominantly from your first disk 'C' partition - Linux is far more graceful at dealing with starting from different parts of different disks. The Linux Bootloader (GRUB usually) can be set up to let you choose which OS you want. However this does rely on your keyboard... > > NOTE :- I also have a wireless keyboard, & on bootup, I'm giving the > choice of going to the old version, or the new version of windows. - > But, as the keyboard doesn't activate until after windows starts, its > pretty pointless in that step... ... how do you manipulate your bios? Your wireless keyboard doesn't do basic keyboard functionality without system-side drivers? That'd be concerning for me... Keyboard interaction is something you'd want to be fairly fundamental, else you could lose control of your whole system due to a soft (driver) glitch... Mark. From gordonisnz at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 16:58:43 2009 From: gordonisnz at gmail.com (Gordon Stewart) Date: Sun Apr 26 17:02:16 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0904261644220.4368@skyhawk.blakjak.net> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <49F363A6.4080407@xtra.co.nz> <9a3273a00904252010h1bfc62e1x342f68b0b9091595@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0904261644220.4368@skyhawk.blakjak.net> Message-ID: <9a3273a00904252158j37853323hd98b955e19d20a3@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Mark Foster <blakjak@blakjak.net> wrote: >> C drive = 19 gigs with 10 gigs free space... >> D drive = 17 gigs, 1.5 gig free... > > Hi Gordon, a small point; The terms 'C-Drive' and 'D-Drive' are very windows > centric - and they don't explain whether you're talking about seperate > physical disks, or simply partitions on a single disk. Do you have one drive > ~40GB or two of ~20GB? (in a rush - Off out soon) Two seperate disks ./ drives.... > A potentially useful theory would be to have your Windows machine running > predominantly from your first disk 'C' partition - Linux is far more > graceful at dealing with starting from different parts of different disks. > The Linux Bootloader (GRUB usually) can be set up to let you choose which OS > you want. However this does rely on your keyboard... OK :) >> NOTE :- I also have a wireless keyboard, & on bootup, I'm giving the >> choice of going to the old version, or the new version of windows. - >> But, as the keyboard doesn't activate until after windows starts, its >> pretty pointless in that step... > > ... how do you manipulate your bios? Your wireless keyboard doesn't do basic > keyboard functionality without system-side drivers? ?That'd be concerning > for me... Keyboard interaction is something you'd want to be fairly > fundamental, else you could lose control of your whole system due to a soft > (driver) glitch... I've got another keyboard for 'emergencies' ... Which is not wireless..... -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AucklandFreecycle/ From kiirani at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 20:11:38 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Sun Apr 26 20:15:10 2009 Subject: Why arch? (was Re: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user) In-Reply-To: <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/26 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: > Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: > > [...] > >> (Also, I think arch is the "best" distribution, but I don't recommend >> ?you install that first time around :P) > > A number of people, obviously including you, have advocated Arch Linux > recently[1], and I am curious to know why you like Arch. > > Having looked over the information on the project website, etc, I can't > see the compelling advantage of it, but it is naturally hard for the > soft benefits to show up there. :) > > So, if you don't mind, why do you like Arch, and how does it improve > over the more major distributions? Hooo boy. The short answer is, "it doesn't". The reasons I like arch are entirely removed from the reasons why distros like ubuntu are popular. The long answer, I guess I'm a "power user". I moved to arch because its philosophy is simplicity from the /developer/'s side. Systems like ubuntu are aimed at simplicity from the "average joe"'s side. What I want is something that comes with the minimal system utilities, and a package manager.. Stripped down, efficient, easy to comprehend configuration files, and if possible, something where the entire installation menu can be avoided and installation be done by hand. That's what arch is. My system has been configured from partition creation to bash configuration to setting up firefox, 100% by me. My xorg.conf is hand written, my bash prompt is coloured to my specifications, my copy of gnu screen has been customised so much I don't even remember how I did it. My system monitor shows what I want it to.. and only what I want it to.. exactly the way I want it to show it. The programs menu in my window manager has been set up with exactly what I want, in exactly the order I want it. I wrote my own fluxbox theme to go with the background I want to use.. Everything on my system has been set up to look and behave the way I want it to, and there is nothing installed on here that I didn't either explicitly install, or install as a dependency for something else. I configured my own kernel, I built the modules for my webcam and my graphics card myself. Everything is 100% mine, and if a single thing goes wrong, I can guarantee you, I can track the problem down and fix it, even if I have to do it over ssh. If I wanted to do this on ubuntu, first I'd have to UNINSTALL all of the crap it came with, then I'd have to wade through mountains of auto-written, foolproof configuration files. I'd have to deal with their repository and its release system... It would be about 3 times the work just to get a blank slate. Why would I even consider using a system like that? (On window managers, system monitors, and gnu screen: http://kiirani.com/stuff/screenshots/fluxbox-2009-04-22.png?format=jpg Don't mind the graphical glitch in conky, my screenshot utility sucks) From songs at billkath.com Sun Apr 26 22:23:00 2009 From: songs at billkath.com (Bill and Kath Worsfold) Date: Sun Apr 26 22:26:30 2009 Subject: Why arch? (was Re: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user) Message-ID: <2ba67c820904260323v6296b51cm1eced50f7fdfd537@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, Kennedy - I thought you were a Gentoo freak. Have you switched over to Arch now, and if so, why? Cheers, Kath Worsfold > Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: > A number of people, obviously including you, have advocated Arch Linux > recently[1], and I am curious to know why you like Arch. > > Having looked over the information on the project website, etc, I can't > see the compelling advantage of it, but it is naturally hard for the > soft benefits to show up there. :) > > So, if you don't mind, why do you like Arch, and how does it improve > over the more major distributions? > > Regards, > ? ? ? ?Daniel From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Sun Apr 26 23:34:08 2009 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Josh Martens) Date: Sun Apr 26 23:37:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1240745648.10127.3.camel@studypad> On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 13:00 +1200, Kennedy Skelton wrote: > 2009/4/26 Gordon Stewart <gordonisnz@gmail.com>: > > Hi.. > > > > I'm new to linux. Takapuna North Shore... > > > > and have a few questions > > > > 1) do we obtain linux (ubuntu) disks from PC shops ? & which is best - > > I hear Ubuntu is best. > > I'm going to give you a sage piece of advice Gordon. Never, ever, ever > ask a group of linux users on the 'net which distribution is "best" :) > The only reason you haven't started a civil war here is these people > are a bunch of ubuntu heathens. ;) > !gNewSense! The latest ubuntu does fix up quite a few technical issues though, but I still use gNewSense. From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 27 01:54:59 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 27 01:58:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Why arch? In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> (Kennedy Skelton's message of "Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:11:38 +1200") References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87prezfrkc.fsf@rimspace.net> Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: > 2009/4/26 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: >> Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: >> >> [...] >> >>> (Also, I think arch is the "best" distribution, but I don't recommend >>> ?you install that first time around :P) >> >> A number of people, obviously including you, have advocated Arch Linux >> recently[1], and I am curious to know why you like Arch. >> >> Having looked over the information on the project website, etc, I can't >> see the compelling advantage of it, but it is naturally hard for the >> soft benefits to show up there. :) >> >> So, if you don't mind, why do you like Arch, and how does it improve >> over the more major distributions? > > > Hooo boy. The short answer is, "it doesn't". I think you misunderstood my question: the reasons you cite below are exactly what I was trying to extract from you ? why you choose arch, and what it does better than other distributions.[1] I hope you would do me the favour of clarifying a few of your comments, though, because I don't feel I quite understand your position yet and I would prefer not to guess what you mean. ;) [...] > The long answer, I guess I'm a "power user". I moved to arch because > its philosophy is simplicity from the /developer/'s side. It isn't entirely clear to me if you mean "developer" as in the person building the distribution packages, or "developer" as in "I develop software for a living"? > Systems like ubuntu are aimed at simplicity from the "average joe"'s > side. What I want is something that comes with the minimal system > utilities, and a package manager.. OK. How does that compare to the minimal Debian environment, if you know? > Stripped down, efficient, easy to comprehend configuration files, and > if possible, something where the entire installation menu can be > avoided and installation be done by hand. That's what arch is. When you talk about configuration files, do you mean that the distribution specific tools have simple configuration (eg: pacman, the network configuration stuff), or that they have a simple and predictable location for application configuration? > My system has been configured from partition creation to bash > configuration to setting up firefox, 100% by me. Do you mean to say that you eschewed the example or default configuration files shipped by upstream package developers, or just that your distribution has not done anything to those? I presume the later; in that case, is it common that Arch ships packages that fail to work together out of the box, such as Apache extensions needing integration work, or web applications that need manual integration? > My xorg.conf is hand written, my bash prompt is coloured to my > specifications, my copy of gnu screen has been customised so much I > don't even remember how I did it. I am not certain I see the relevant of this to the distribution: in my experience, at least, none of those things are fiddled with by the distribution, as a rule... [2] [...] > Everything on my system has been set up to look and behave the way I > want it to, and there is nothing installed on here that I didn't > either explicitly install, or install as a dependency for something > else. Is this just an issue of the default set of packages shipped in the "standard" system installer (ala ubuntu-standard), or do the minimal system installers also drag in more than you want? > I configured my own kernel, I built the modules for my webcam and my > graphics card myself. Was there any specific reason for wanting to do that, or just the same sort of "did it myself" option? > Everything is 100% mine, and if a single thing goes wrong, I can > guarantee you, I can track the problem down and fix it, even if I have > to do it over ssh. > > If I wanted to do this on ubuntu, first I'd have to UNINSTALL all of > the crap it came with, then I'd have to wade through mountains of > auto-written, foolproof configuration files. > > I'd have to deal with their repository and its release system... It > would be about 3 times the work just to get a blank slate. Why would I > even consider using a system like that? Hmmm. Have you used either Debian or RHEL at any stage? I agree that Ubuntu tend to have more packages by default[3], and tend to have more automagical configuration, but in my experience neither Debian or RHEL put a lot of ... what you identify as obstacles in the way. I presume you did try at least one of them, which suggests that you found the same sort of issues; I am curious to know how they compared to Ubuntu in that regard. (I ask, in part, because I have been administering these damn systems so long that I can't see a bunch of the differences any more, so I am curious to find out where they sit these days. :) Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] I put the "more mainstream" caveat in there because I don't really care how Arch compares to some random little distribution I never heard of nearly as much. :) [2] IIRC, Ubuntu tend to overwrite system configuration files during GUI upgrades in some cases, and the updates between versions can do so to make newer X work, but they generally follow the Debian model of preserving user configuration changes. [3] ...even if I think that defining them as "crap" is a bit extraneous, even if they are not what you (or I) use by default. :) From unclerichard at xtra.co.nz Mon Apr 27 07:14:08 2009 From: unclerichard at xtra.co.nz (R Innes) Date: Mon Apr 27 07:17:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Another beginner In-Reply-To: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> References: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <49F4B280.6010907@xtra.co.nz> Eddie, Ingela & Mikael Johannisson wrote: > Hi Guys > > I saw the post from Gordon and living on the shore and also in the > process of installing Linux for the first time I have a question. I > will install Linux on a separate computer so there is no need for > partition. I saw that you recommend Ubuntu for beginners but I was > told that Opensuse was also a good start. > I have a disc with the Opensuse 11.1 but after reading your > recommendations I hesitate what to use. I will mostly use the Linux > computer for photos (Gimp, UFRaw) the net (Firefox, Thunderbird) and > for documents (Open office) which are all programs I am using on my > windows computer.. > Which OS should I start with? > > Cheers > Eddie > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > I would have to say, after my experience with Ubuntu 9.04 that Ubuntu (and its olff springs) are the way to go. I would even describe the latest Ubuntu as an 'XP killer'. Having said that, I still think that Mint is a better experience for the beginner in Linux, more so those migrating from XP. Open Suse is one of the major Linux distros with good community support. I think though that it presents a challenge to beginners as it adopts a slightly different approach that the other distros. There is no harm in trying it, and if you do find it difficult you can go to either one of the Ubuntu distros, Mint, or even Mephis. But to my mind Ubuntu seems to have climbed to the top of the ladder in the Linux world and now presents a serious threat to Windows dominance. Personally, at the moment, I favour an environment where both Windows and Linux and used were appropriate for the task at hand. Remember, if you encounter problems there are a lot of folks on Shore ready to help. Richard I From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 08:47:50 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Apr 27 08:51:19 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Another beginner In-Reply-To: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> References: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904261347l698dfc2ane7e73314bd312c59@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Eddie, Ingela & Mikael Johannisson <mingdie@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Hi Guys > > I saw the post from Gordon and living on the shore and also in the process > of installing Linux for the first time I have a question. I will install > Linux on a separate computer so there is no need for partition. I saw that > you recommend Ubuntu for beginners but I was told that Opensuse was also a > good start. > I have a disc with the Opensuse 11.1 but after reading your recommendations > I hesitate what to use. I will mostly use the Linux computer for photos > (Gimp, UFRaw) the net (Firefox, Thunderbird) and for documents (Open office) > which are all programs I am using on my windows computer.. > Which OS should I start with? > > Cheers > Eddie *groan* here we go.... Hi Eddie. You're getting really close to starting a distro war (why one distribution is better than another). I've never used OpenSuse myself. However, I did have a bit of a play with Suse before it was brought by Novell and it appeared to be a really intuitive and polished distribution. Just about every distribution under the sun will deliver the specs. that you've defined above. However, I think the best advice you can get at this point would be, don't expect to be up and running right away. Chances are you'll find something in the distribution you're just not happy with and decide to try something different. There's often a lot of this trial and error in the Linux world. The fact that a lot of people on this list use Ubuntu shouldn't influence your decision except maybe from the point of view of getting help but then, OpenSuse isn't that hard - i.e. it's an rpm based system with some great configuration tools (yaast). Regards, Nevyn. From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Mon Apr 27 10:48:07 2009 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Mon Apr 27 10:51:41 2009 Subject: LUG and mailing list in Albany (was: Re: [AuckLUG] Another beginner) In-Reply-To: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> References: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <200904271048.08216.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:11:20 Eddie, Ingela & Mikael Johannisson wrote: > I saw the post from Gordon and living on the shore and also in the > process of installing Linux for the first time I have a question. We are currently setting up a Linux mailing list for Massey. This one is originating from Massey in Albany on the North Shore. Future plans also include meetings, etc. here at Massey. Both mailing list and meetings are going to be open to non-Massey folks as well. Don't get me wrong here, this is *not* intended to be competition for AuckLUG, but we've just seen that people here at uni are mostly not really enthusiastic to make their way to CBD and struggle with transportation, traffic and parking there. And this way we may get a grip on the loosely existent FLOSS & Linux users here on campus and around the North Shore to support and encourage them in using FLOSS & Linux. I'll send out another announcement as soon as the mailing list is fully set up and operational. Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Room 2.63, Quad Block A Building Massey University, Auckland, Albany Private Bag 102 904, North Shore Mail Centre voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 eMail: G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://iims.massey.ac.nz From nardusg at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 10:55:22 2009 From: nardusg at gmail.com (Nardus Geldenhuys) Date: Mon Apr 27 10:57:47 2009 Subject: LUG and mailing list in Albany (was: Re: [AuckLUG] Another beginner) In-Reply-To: <200904271048.08216.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> References: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> <200904271048.08216.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> Message-ID: <778465350904261555v52714c77o7482b727133beb0d@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guy I am on the North Shore. Work and live... So this will be great :) Cheers Nardus 2009/4/27 Guy K. Kloss <g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:11:20 Eddie, Ingela & Mikael Johannisson wrote: > > I saw the post from Gordon and living on the shore and also in the > > process of installing Linux for the first time I have a question. > > We are currently setting up a Linux mailing list for Massey. This one is > originating from Massey in Albany on the North Shore. Future plans also > include meetings, etc. here at Massey. Both mailing list and meetings are > going to be open to non-Massey folks as well. > > Don't get me wrong here, this is *not* intended to be competition for > AuckLUG, > but we've just seen that people here at uni are mostly not really > enthusiastic > to make their way to CBD and struggle with transportation, traffic and > parking > there. And this way we may get a grip on the loosely existent FLOSS & Linux > users here on campus and around the North Shore to support and encourage > them > in using FLOSS & Linux. > > I'll send out another announcement as soon as the mailing list is fully set > up > and operational. > > Guy > > -- > Guy K. Kloss > Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences > Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau > Room 2.63, Quad Block A Building > Massey University, Auckland, Albany > Private Bag 102 904, North Shore Mail Centre > voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 > eMail: G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://iims.massey.ac.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From unclerichard at xtra.co.nz Mon Apr 27 11:30:33 2009 From: unclerichard at xtra.co.nz (Richard Innes) Date: Mon Apr 27 11:30:45 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: LUG and mailing list in Albany In-Reply-To: <200904271048.08216.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> References: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> <200904271048.08216.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> Message-ID: <49F4EE99.5090509@xtra.co.nz> Guy K. Kloss wrote: > > > We are currently setting up a Linux mailing list for Massey. This one is > originating from Massey in Albany on the North Shore. Future plans also > include meetings, etc. here at Massey. Both mailing list and meetings are > going to be open to non-Massey folks as well. > > I am a starter, > R Innes unclerichaed@xtra.co.nz From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 27 11:50:22 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Apr 27 11:50:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] REPORT: Auck RP Message-ID: <634881.93061.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi guys, Thanks for a fantastic turnout at the RP; hope everybody had a good tiem or found something interesting. Sorry that the "demo-install" didn't go *quite* as smooth as would've hoped, but now I know a bit better for the next round. My only regret was that I didn't get around to spending more time chatting to everyone. Thanks to everyone that chipped in (& the beers too, btw :D ); was really interesting to see the sort of dynamic that emerged when everybody started contributing from their own expertise. I really think that that sort of social network interaction is something worth investigating. Some pointers on what I've found: * please don't take my ignorance as a deterrent to the platform (but we DID get it going despite my ignorance :/ ) * the NetBook version is NOT fully functional on the Asus 701 (as documented). Install standard-32, and "tasksel" accordingly. * pulse is STILL buggy. on my earlier versions I've simply purged it completely & made use of ALSA. works fine now * install Skype & some other 3rd-party apps via Ubuntu Tweak. found it to be easiest that way * I'd hazard a guess & say EnvyNG is no longer a "must". ATI & NVidia driver are apparently much-improved * itching to get going on the "cloud"-features. anyone else got this licked yet? * disables by default >:( * not HUGE improvements at face value. much of the work has been done under the hood * novice users: wait a few days before doing an install. give some time for the 1st round of patches to come out * mtr is AWESOME (thanks for the suggestion) I'll bring the (operational) netbook to the next (VoIP) meet. Still have those ISO's available, if anyone's interested Cheers -J From songs at billkath.com Mon Apr 27 12:12:17 2009 From: songs at billkath.com (Bill and Kath Worsfold) Date: Mon Apr 27 12:12:35 2009 Subject: LUG and mailing list in Albany (was: Re: [AuckLUG] Another, beginner) In-Reply-To: <20090427000107.088CC93000D@mlx2-in.webhost.co.nz> References: <20090427000107.088CC93000D@mlx2-in.webhost.co.nz> Message-ID: <49F4F861.6040309@billkath.com> Thanks so much for this, Guy. I live up near Warkworth, and going to the Auckland CBD meetings (I only attended one) or installfests was always a real ordeal, that involved walking for miles from a parking spot, sometimes carrying a full desktop computer, monitor, etc. : ( It will be so great to have meetings as close as Albany, with ample parking. I look forward to the meetings, when you finally get up and running. Please sign me up for the mailing list - or maybe I'm jumping the gun and should wait for a notice on here. Cheers, Kath Worsfold > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:48:07 +1200 > From: "Guy K. Kloss" <g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> > Subject: LUG and mailing list in Albany (was: Re: [AuckLUG] Another > beginner) > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list <aucklug@linux.net.nz> > Message-ID: <200904271048.08216.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" > > We are currently setting up a Linux mailing list for Massey. This one is > originating from Massey in Albany on the North Shore. Future plans also > include meetings, etc. here at Massey. Both mailing list and meetings are > going to be open to non-Massey folks as well. > > Don't get me wrong here, this is *not* intended to be competition for AuckLUG, > but we've just seen that people here at uni are mostly not really enthusiastic > to make their way to CBD and struggle with transportation, traffic and parking > there. And this way we may get a grip on the loosely existent FLOSS & Linux > users here on campus and around the North Shore to support and encourage them > in using FLOSS & Linux. > > I'll send out another announcement as soon as the mailing list is fully set up > and operational. > > Guy > > From juanvr at live.com Mon Apr 27 12:50:58 2009 From: juanvr at live.com (Juan .) Date: Mon Apr 27 12:51:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] REPORT: Auck RP In-Reply-To: <634881.93061.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <634881.93061.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <COL104-W109C62145A61575E938AA8B7710@phx.gbl> Hey guys... I think I speak for all of us when I thank Jaco for organizing the event. It was tons of fun, and good to meet my fellow linux users. Hope to see you guys at the next meet. Cheers, Juan P.S. * disables by default >:( ? > Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:50:22 +0000 > From: freakalad@yahoo.co.uk > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Subject: [AuckLUG] REPORT: Auck RP > > > Hi guys, > > Thanks for a fantastic turnout at the RP; hope everybody had a good tiem or found something interesting. > > Sorry that the "demo-install" didn't go *quite* as smooth as would've hoped, but now I know a bit better for the next round. > My only regret was that I didn't get around to spending more time chatting to everyone. > > Thanks to everyone that chipped in (& the beers too, btw :D ); was really interesting to see the sort of dynamic that emerged when everybody started contributing from their own expertise. I really think that that sort of social network interaction is something worth investigating. > > Some pointers on what I've found: > * please don't take my ignorance as a deterrent to the platform (but we DID get it going despite my ignorance :/ ) > * the NetBook version is NOT fully functional on the Asus 701 (as documented). Install standard-32, and "tasksel" accordingly. > * pulse is STILL buggy. on my earlier versions I've simply purged it completely & made use of ALSA. works fine now > * install Skype & some other 3rd-party apps via Ubuntu Tweak. found it to be easiest that way > * I'd hazard a guess & say EnvyNG is no longer a "must". ATI & NVidia driver are apparently much-improved > * itching to get going on the "cloud"-features. anyone else got this licked yet? > * disables by default >:( > * not HUGE improvements at face value. much of the work has been done under the hood > * novice users: wait a few days before doing an install. give some time for the 1st round of patches to come out > * mtr is AWESOME (thanks for the suggestion) > > > I'll bring the (operational) netbook to the next (VoIP) meet. Still have those ISO's available, if anyone's interested > > Cheers > > -J > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug _________________________________________________________________ Feeling the financial pinch? Check on MSN NZ Money for a hand http://money.msn.co.nz From yorick_ at openoffice.org Mon Apr 27 13:15:27 2009 From: yorick_ at openoffice.org (Graham Lauder) Date: Mon Apr 27 13:15:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Another beginner In-Reply-To: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> References: <49F3C2C8.9030909@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <200904271315.27291.yorick_@openoffice.org> On Sunday 26 April 2009 14:11:20 Eddie, Ingela & Mikael Johannisson wrote: > Hi Guys Hi Eddie > > I saw the post from Gordon and living on the shore and also in the > process of installing Linux for the first time I have a question. I will > install Linux on a separate computer so there is no need for partition. > I saw that you recommend Ubuntu for beginners but I was told that > Opensuse was also a good start. > I have a disc with the Opensuse 11.1 but after reading your > recommendations I hesitate what to use. I will mostly use the Linux > computer for photos (Gimp, UFRaw) the net (Firefox, Thunderbird) and for > documents (Open office) which are all programs I am using on my windows > computer.. > Which OS should I start with? > > Cheers > Eddie > > ______________ Nevyn has already done the groan thing so I won't! :) Open SuSE is a good starting distro. It installs very easily and it has the best GUI administration tool (YAST) imnsho. It also has a good community and support networks. ...... Much of which can be said for Ubuntu. I haven't tried 9.04 yet but being a long time SuSE user, I have tried OpenSuSE 11.1 (I bought the boxed version as I do for each release) My personal preference is for 11.0, but that's just down to the KDE version that ships with 11.1 which was a little problematic with my hardware. The best thing is to go with the distro that has the best local support and given your location then Ubuntu is probably the more reasonable choice. The best thing about all this is that you have a raft of choices whether it be OpenSuSE, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Mepis or Yoper or whatever. The critical point is that once you have your system set up with the standard partition set up (root +swap+home) it is trivial to swap and change distros while still retaining the critical bit which is your home directory. Welcome to the future. Cheers GL -- Graham Lauder OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) New Zealand http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html The Best things in life are three Find out why: http://why.openoffice.org Download: http://openoffice.org Coming soon: OpenOffice.org 3.1 INGOTS Assessor Trainer http://www.theingots.org From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Mon Apr 27 14:52:05 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Mon Apr 27 14:52:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Sponsorship Message-ID: <173321.12660.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Been looking into getting some potential sponsors to come on board for some events, but not having much luck. Considering the last event, it could be a really nice angle (& would draw a bigger crowd) if we could get, say, Dell or Asus (or some Linux-friendly manufacturer), or even a local biz-owner, to provide a machine (netbook?) to do the install & demo on, and then give it out by raffle or auction or something like that. Or a sponsor for pizza & beer :D Possible sponsors that would go well in our corner: Canonical, RedHat, Dell, HP, IBM, Oracle (?), Asus (or many of the NetBook manu's), Motorola (android?) or even Google, or even a local merchant or the likes of DSE. I have absolutely no experience in approaching these people or know who to speak to, so if anyone's anble to make sense of this, that would help. Any pointers or suggested sponsors to approach? From unclerichard at xtra.co.nz Mon Apr 27 16:30:26 2009 From: unclerichard at xtra.co.nz (R Innes) Date: Mon Apr 27 16:30:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <173321.12660.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <173321.12660.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49F534E2.6090104@xtra.co.nz> Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Been looking into getting some potential sponsors to come on board for some events, but not having much luck. > > Considering the last event, it could be a really nice angle (& would draw a bigger crowd) if we could get, say, Dell or Asus (or some Linux-friendly manufacturer), or even a local biz-owner, to provide a machine (netbook?) to do the install & demo on, and then give it out by raffle or auction or something like that. > Or a sponsor for pizza & beer :D > > Possible sponsors that would go well in our corner: Canonical, RedHat, Dell, HP, IBM, Oracle (?), Asus (or many of the NetBook manu's), Motorola (android?) or even Google, or even a local merchant or the likes of DSE. > I have absolutely no experience in approaching these people or know who to speak to, so if anyone's anble to make sense of this, that would help. > > Any pointers or suggested sponsors to approach? > > > > Just to take a lsightly different tack; I get the impression quite a few local box boys are foing down market in these hard times and promoting bare boxes. That is bixes without a keybiard, mice, or monitor, and of course without an OS. There are at least three on the Shore and probably many others elsewhere. Maybe one or two of them would be interested in Linux as a 'free' add-on. Afterall it doesn't add to the cost. Richard I > > > > From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Apr 27 16:31:54 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Apr 27 16:32:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <173321.12660.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <173321.12660.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <27334.119.15.0.26.1240806714.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Mon, April 27, 2009 2:52 pm, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > Been looking into getting some potential sponsors to come on board for > some events, but not having much luck. > > Considering the last event, it could be a really nice angle (& would draw > a bigger crowd) if we could get, say, Dell or Asus (or some Linux-friendly > manufacturer), or even a local biz-owner, to provide a machine (netbook?) > to do the install & demo on, and then give it out by raffle or auction or > something like that. > Or a sponsor for pizza & beer :D Sponsorship is not a new idea, and definately a goodie; however you need a reasonably well structured, publicised event to make it worth their while. The Auckland LUG has previously had sponsorship from various supporting corporations in the area for Installfests and suchlike. The degree of sponsorship is usually on the small side, because (in part, and I suppose) because of limited cashflow for a group like ours. > Possible sponsors that would go well in our corner: Canonical, RedHat, > Dell, HP, IBM, Oracle (?), Asus (or many of the NetBook manu's), Motorola > (android?) or even Google, or even a local merchant or the likes of DSE. > I have absolutely no experience in approaching these people or know who to > speak to, so if anyone's anble to make sense of this, that would help. > > Any pointers or suggested sponsors to approach? Several of the above have supported the LUG before. However I would again encourage you to first have a structured event and a clearly established idea of cost:benefit for the sponsor to get on board. This will give an idea pretty quickly of the kinda money or other perks one is likely to see. Ultimately, if you can show to the potential sponsor the benefits to them in being engaged as such, they will usually get on board. :-) Especially some of those who've previously had a lot of time for the Auckland LUG'rs. (One name that immediately leaps out is Novell, there are others i'm sure...) Mark. From kiirani at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 17:01:04 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Mon Apr 27 17:02:20 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Why arch? In-Reply-To: <87prezfrkc.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> <87prezfrkc.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2494ad260904262201x3ee6145es5ed73b8097476c2e@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/27 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: > Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: >> 2009/4/26 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: >>> So, if you don't mind, why do you like Arch, and how does it improve >>> over the more major distributions? >> >> >> Hooo boy. The short answer is, "it doesn't". > > I think you misunderstood my question: the reasons you cite below are > exactly what I was trying to extract from you ? why you choose arch, > and what it does better than other distributions.[1] I just thought I should make it quite clear that for most people, the distros I choose are a step downwards :p > > I hope you would do me the favour of clarifying a few of your comments, > though, because I don't feel I quite understand your position yet and > I would prefer not to guess what you mean. ;) > > [...] > >> The long answer, I guess I'm a "power user". I moved to arch because >> its philosophy is simplicity from the /developer/'s side. > > It isn't entirely clear to me if you mean "developer" as in the person > building the distribution packages, or "developer" as in "I develop > software for a living"? Hmm, I could have sworn the arch website used that as a description for it, but either I'm losing it or they decided it was too ambiguous so axed it for a better explanation. By developer, I mean the person developing the OS, and thus any users who want to modify it. So that goes for package maintainers as well as whatever the term is for the people who write the base config, etc. A better description is probably the one on the archwiki: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way >> Systems like ubuntu are aimed at simplicity from the "average joe"'s >> side. What I want is something that comes with the minimal system >> utilities, and a package manager.. > > OK. ?How does that compare to the minimal Debian environment, if you know? Actually I do, I installed debian before moving to arch -- it was my first choice as a binary-based distribution (prior to that I was a gentoo user) It's a complex issue. So far as a "nothing but the package manager" install goes, the three I've used are pretty equivalent. Gentoo is probably the easiest to install the way I want -- I'm not particularly fussed on getting my minimal install handed to me by my OS... I would prefer to partition myself, build my own kernel, write my own fstab, and keep using my existing grub installation. Of course, gentoo's official installation method doesn't really let you do this anymore.. They just happen to have preserved the handbook so that you CAN do it step by step if you want. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml So when I installed debian, I hacked a significantly outdated guide to debootstrap to work from my gentoo livecd. Eventually got the system running and all was good. Debian, however, has a lot of other issues. I don't like the version-based package management and I strongly disagree with Debian's definition of "stable"*... I think debian/stable was running firefox 1.5 when I started using it! I found it difficult to get a lot of "non-free" software like the flash plugin for firefox to work, and on reading Arch's manifesto, decided that arch is more suitable for me. * Both gentoo and arch have a rolling release system, and although arch's repo isn't quite as complete or haemorrhaging edge as Gentoo's, it's certainly adequate for my needs. Incidentally, I find arch's build system (the secondary, ports-like package management system) to be less user-friendly than portage, but easier to build packages for. That might just be because I use it more. See, it's not just that it provides the minimal install I want -- like you mentioned, other distributions do that.. It's more that that is Arch's entire philosophy, where the other systems just have it as a by-product of other philosophies.. Gentoo gives you a minimal system because its philosophy is "compile everything yourself" Debian gives you a minimal system because... Well, because I forced it to. :p I think I attribute this to the pleasure I've had working with arch.. It's not just a system which is minimal enough to be used by people like me, it's actually *designed* for people like me. Arch was also significantly easier to get working without the official installer than debian was. I believe I had to fetch and extract pacman and a couple of dependencies onto the livecd, then I just had to run... pacman -Sy base base-devel -r /mnt/arch/ Pacman fetched the base system, then configuring it and getting everything else was essentially the same as a gentoo install. (I've since discovered a guide to doing this... I actually worked it out all alone... :) http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Install_From_Existing_Linux ) >> Stripped down, efficient, easy to comprehend configuration files, and >> if possible, something where the entire installation menu can be >> avoided and installation be done by hand. ?That's what arch is. > > When you talk about configuration files, do you mean that the > distribution specific tools have simple configuration (eg: pacman, the > network configuration stuff), or that they have a simple and predictable > location for application configuration? Well, Arch's networking is actually pretty awesome, as is pacman, but I don't necessarily mean them, or just the location of app. configuration files.. It's more that the files which are shipped with the distro -- the defaults for things like bash -- are easier to understand and build on on arch than they are on other distros I've used. I think they're well located too, but on a *nix system, I think you'd have to try really hard to NOT have a simple and predictable location for them... That's what /etc is, isn't it? >> My system has been configured from partition creation to bash >> configuration to setting up firefox, 100% by me. > > Do you mean to say that you eschewed the example or default > configuration files shipped by upstream package developers, or just that > your distribution has not done anything to those? > > > I presume the later; in that case, is it common that Arch ships packages > that fail to work together out of the box, such as Apache extensions > needing integration work, or web applications that need manual > integration? No, arch provides an installer that (I believe) will handle the things that I set up myself, and it ships with default configuration for applications, but as was said above the files are fairly simply written and thus are easy (and less frightening) to modify.. There's nothing in there that glues bits of distribution magic together, so practically everything I use has been taken apart and put back together the way I want. Including apache. Of course, arch doesn't ship a working xorg.conf, in fact it doesn't ship with xorg at all.. If you install it you'll get all the basic configuration tools to auto-create your own, but you won't get that hardware detection magic that you get on the newbie distros. >> My xorg.conf is hand written, my bash prompt is coloured to my >> specifications, my copy of gnu screen has been customised so much I >> don't even remember how I did it. > > I am not certain I see the relevant of this to the distribution: in my > experience, at least, none of those things are fiddled with by the > distribution, as a rule... [2] No, none of these points about my configuration habits were an argument for arch as much as they were an argument for why I am partial to a system which encourages configuration like that... To be honest, I would be a little worried about touching system config files on a system that's been set up to be "foolproof". I'd probably break something. >> Everything on my system has been set up to look and behave the way I >> want it to, and there is nothing installed on here that I didn't >> either explicitly install, or install as a dependency for something >> else. > > Is this just an issue of the default set of packages shipped in the > "standard" system installer (ala ubuntu-standard), or do the minimal > system installers also drag in more than you want? The minimal system installers don't usually drag in more packages than I want so much as they try to mess with my system config, my partitions, my filesystems, my kernel, and my boot manager. At least if I'm doing those things, I know if something goes horribly wrong that it is my fault. >> I configured my own kernel, I built the modules for my webcam and my >> graphics card myself. > > Was there any specific reason for wanting to do that, or just the same > sort of "did it myself" option? Haha, yeah this one is a bit embarrassing.. I actually don't understand how initrd's work, so I don't want to use one. I'm confident that if something goes wrong, I can dig in there and fix it without breaking something else.. I can't say that if I don't fully understand half of the system to it. Although, I do get a pleasant tingly feeling from knowing exactly what I've built in there... > Hmmm. ?Have you used either Debian or RHEL at any stage? > > I agree that Ubuntu tend to have more packages by default[3], and tend > to have more automagical configuration, but in my experience neither > Debian or RHEL put a lot of ... what you identify as obstacles in the > way. > > I presume you did try at least one of them, which suggests that you > found the same sort of issues; I am curious to know how they compared to > Ubuntu in that regard. > > (I ask, in part, because I have been administering these damn systems so > ?long that I can't see a bunch of the differences any more, so I am > ?curious to find out where they sit these days. :) See way above for the answer to this. I'll happily clarify it further if you'd like :) Also for the record, I've never actually installed and used ubuntu myself. Nor do I really want to. I found it enough of a struggle dealing with debian, and debian's hardly a bloated system... (If you've been following closely enough, yes, that does mean that I started out on gentoo.) > [3] ?...even if I think that defining them as "crap" is a bit > ? ? extraneous, even if they are not what you (or I) use by default. :) Sorry, I don't mean to say that the packages included in systems like this are "crap" at all. In fact, I probably use a lot of them myself, and I'm sure that the rest are also perfectly elegant pieces of software... Er, I just tend to refer to things like that... "Hang on, I need to pack up my crap" "Can you get your crap out of the way so I can sit down?" I don't know why.... lol From kiirani at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 17:11:30 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Mon Apr 27 17:11:38 2009 Subject: Why arch? (was Re: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user) In-Reply-To: <2ba67c820904260323v6296b51cm1eced50f7fdfd537@mail.gmail.com> References: <2ba67c820904260323v6296b51cm1eced50f7fdfd537@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260904262211k524b8182r7877296e8ca3d405@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/26 Bill and Kath Worsfold <songs@billkath.com>: > Yeah, Kennedy - I thought you were a Gentoo freak. Have you switched > over to Arch now, and if so, why? > > Cheers, > Kath Worsfold I was! I still really like gentoo, but I was in the market for a distro with binary-based packages for my laptop. I heard somewhere that arch is fairly gentoo-like, so I looked it up and had a go. As it turns out, the things I love about gentoo are exactly the same things I love about arch, except in gentoo, it's just a by-product of their "compile everything" philosophy. In arch, the things I love ARE its philosophy, so it's been working very well for me :) After a couple of months of using it on my laptop I migrated my desktop over as well. Ah, for the record, archwiki has a page giving a comparison between arch and other distributions: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others See particularly, the last sentence of this part :p http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others#Arch_vs_Gentoo From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 27 17:36:03 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 27 17:36:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Why arch? In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904262201x3ee6145es5ed73b8097476c2e@mail.gmail.com> (Kennedy Skelton's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:01:04 +1200") References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> <87prezfrkc.fsf@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904262201x3ee6145es5ed73b8097476c2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <878wlmk69o.fsf@rimspace.net> Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: > 2009/4/27 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: >> Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: >>> 2009/4/26 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: >>>> So, if you don't mind, why do you like Arch, and how does it improve >>>> over the more major distributions? >>> >>> >>> Hooo boy. The short answer is, "it doesn't". >> >> I think you misunderstood my question: the reasons you cite below are >> exactly what I was trying to extract from you ? why you choose arch, >> and what it does better than other distributions.[1] > > I just thought I should make it quite clear that for most people, the > distros I choose are a step downwards :p *nod* That is a sensible strategy, I think. :) [...] >>> Systems like ubuntu are aimed at simplicity from the "average joe"'s >>> side. What I want is something that comes with the minimal system >>> utilities, and a package manager.. >> >> OK. ?How does that compare to the minimal Debian environment, if you know? > > Actually I do, I installed debian before moving to arch -- it was my > first choice as a binary-based distribution (prior to that I was a > gentoo user) It's a complex issue. So far as a "nothing but the > package manager" install goes, the three I've used are pretty > equivalent. *nod* [...] > Debian, however, has a lot of other issues. I don't like the > version-based package management and I strongly disagree with Debian's > definition of "stable"*... I think debian/stable was running firefox > 1.5 when I started using it! Just to make sure I understand, you find the Debian definition of "doesn't move versions of anything" doesn't match your idea of stable? I think you mean "has the best version for stability" when you say "stable", yeah? Using an example, if FF 2.0 is "better" than 1.5 it would be more "stable" for the distribution to upgrade to that newer version? [...] > See, it's not just that it provides the minimal install I want -- like > you mentioned, other distributions do that.. It's more that that is > Arch's entire philosophy, where the other systems just have it as a > by-product of other philosophies.. *nod* Out of interest, how do you find the arch system handles situations where a "stable" upgrade requires configuration changes, or where it requires rebuilding significant volumes of software? Specifically, I guess, I am interested in your experiences there WRT advance warning so you /know/ you will need to reconfigure software, and with timeliness WRT that rebuilding... [...] >>> Stripped down, efficient, easy to comprehend configuration files, and >>> if possible, something where the entire installation menu can be >>> avoided and installation be done by hand. ?That's what arch is. >> >> When you talk about configuration files, do you mean that the >> distribution specific tools have simple configuration (eg: pacman, the >> network configuration stuff), or that they have a simple and predictable >> location for application configuration? > > Well, Arch's networking is actually pretty awesome, as is pacman, but > I don't necessarily mean them, or just the location of app. > configuration files.. > It's more that the files which are shipped with the distro -- the > defaults for things like bash -- are easier to understand and build on > on arch than they are on other distros I've used. Oh. Fair enough; I wouldn't have guess that was what you meant, but I can certainly see the appeal. [...] > Of course, arch doesn't ship a working xorg.conf, in fact it doesn't > ship with xorg at all.. If you install it you'll get all the basic > configuration tools to auto-create your own, but you won't get that > hardware detection magic that you get on the newbie distros. Hardware detection is an upstream X.org feature, these days. Just sayin' [...] >>> I configured my own kernel, I built the modules for my webcam and my >>> graphics card myself. >> >> Was there any specific reason for wanting to do that, or just the same >> sort of "did it myself" option? > > Haha, yeah this one is a bit embarrassing.. I actually don't > understand how initrd's work, so I don't want to use one. That is probably the best reason I have ever heard for not wanting to use an initramfs or initrd system. It has, you know, an actual sensible basis for the decision. ;) Anyway, thank you for explaining your preferences. Regards, Daniel From kiirani at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 18:25:08 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Mon Apr 27 18:25:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Why arch? In-Reply-To: <878wlmk69o.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> <87prezfrkc.fsf@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904262201x3ee6145es5ed73b8097476c2e@mail.gmail.com> <878wlmk69o.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2494ad260904262325j7c746484y6d0c6bd665d8a0a6@mail.gmail.com> As a fore-word to this email, I've been busy with uni since just before I first installed debian, so I've never had a chance to get fully updated with Arch's systems.. I'm vaguely aware that Arch has more "tools for doing stuff" than I use, but I really don't have time to manage my machines beyond ensuring they work for as long as possible without human intervention. 2009/4/27 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: > Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: >> Debian, however, has a lot of other issues. I don't like the >> version-based package management and I strongly disagree with Debian's >> definition of "stable"*... I think debian/stable was running firefox >> 1.5 when I started using it! > > Just to make sure I understand, you find the Debian definition of > "doesn't move versions of anything" doesn't match your idea of stable? > > I think you mean "has the best version for stability" when you say > "stable", yeah? > > Using an example, if FF 2.0 is "better" than 1.5 it would be more > "stable" for the distribution to upgrade to that newer version? Ehhh. I suppose that's what I mean.. I understand why Debian defines "stability" the way it does... but by the time things are considered "stable" by debian, they're so old that anybody who's crawled out from the debian cave in the past 3 years would have problems putting up with them. I guess I don't think that ultra stability is necessary or even desirable... Obviously software which is still under heavy, early-stage development should be avoided, but when an organisation like Mozilla releases a new version, it's probably safe to say that it won't make your system explode if you upgrade. Then again I also find that stable versions of a lot of applications are missing important features, so I wind up installing a lot of betas and dev-versions myself. Gentoo probably handled this the best out of anything I've seen, with the package keywords system. But it got to the point on gentoo where I just gave up and made the first level of 'unstable' keyword global. I just want the latest working version available. >> See, it's not just that it provides the minimal install I want -- like >> you mentioned, other distributions do that.. It's more that that is >> Arch's entire philosophy, where the other systems just have it as a >> by-product of other philosophies.. > > *nod* ?Out of interest, how do you find the arch system handles > situations where a "stable" upgrade requires configuration changes, or > where it requires rebuilding significant volumes of software? > > Specifically, I guess, I am interested in your experiences there WRT > advance warning so you /know/ you will need to reconfigure software, and > with timeliness WRT that rebuilding... Hmmm. I believe arch has a system for this, but I honestly haven't made use of it. Gentoo was probably best at this with "dispatch-conf". I've just been working it out by whether or not things break, but I'm fairly positive that there is actually a way to get the distro to inform you. I guess I'll look it up when I have time. It's not vital. > Hardware detection is an upstream X.org feature, these days. ?Just sayin' Actually yeah, I really need to learn how to operate that xD It broke my mouse when I upgraded last so I've just hacked it into working until I have time to deal with it :( I'm far too busy with uni to keep up with these things. From daniel at rimspace.net Mon Apr 27 18:30:39 2009 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Mon Apr 27 18:30:55 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Why arch? In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904262325j7c746484y6d0c6bd665d8a0a6@mail.gmail.com> (Kennedy Skelton's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:25:08 +1200") References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> <87prezfrkc.fsf@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904262201x3ee6145es5ed73b8097476c2e@mail.gmail.com> <878wlmk69o.fsf@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904262325j7c746484y6d0c6bd665d8a0a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87mya2ip68.fsf@rimspace.net> Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: > 2009/4/27 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: >> Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: >>> Debian, however, has a lot of other issues. I don't like the >>> version-based package management and I strongly disagree with Debian's >>> definition of "stable"*... I think debian/stable was running firefox >>> 1.5 when I started using it! >> >> Just to make sure I understand, you find the Debian definition of >> "doesn't move versions of anything" doesn't match your idea of stable? >> >> I think you mean "has the best version for stability" when you say >> "stable", yeah? >> >> Using an example, if FF 2.0 is "better" than 1.5 it would be more >> "stable" for the distribution to upgrade to that newer version? > > Ehhh. I suppose that's what I mean.. I understand why Debian defines > "stability" the way it does... but by the time things are considered > "stable" by debian, they're so old that anybody who's crawled out from > the debian cave in the past 3 years would have problems putting up > with them. *nod* I certainly don't disagree with that assessment. > I guess I don't think that ultra stability is necessary or even > desirable... Obviously software which is still under heavy, > early-stage development should be avoided, but when an organisation > like Mozilla releases a new version, it's probably safe to say that it > won't make your system explode if you upgrade. Reasonably, but it is also safe to say that even minor version upgrades to Mozilla software do break existing functionality for users ? correctly or not, a number of extensions will fail because the hard-code a maximum version based on what is released, etc. The trade-off though, is that avoiding that does cost. For workstations I tend to run Debian/unstable (which usually isn't), precisely because of this, so we do tend to agree. :) [...] >> *nod* ?Out of interest, how do you find the arch system handles >> situations where a "stable" upgrade requires configuration changes, or >> where it requires rebuilding significant volumes of software? >> >> Specifically, I guess, I am interested in your experiences there WRT >> advance warning so you /know/ you will need to reconfigure software, and >> with timeliness WRT that rebuilding... > > Hmmm. I believe arch has a system for this, but I honestly haven't > made use of it. Gentoo was probably best at this with > "dispatch-conf". > > I've just been working it out by whether or not things break, but I'm > fairly positive that there is actually a way to get the distro to > inform you. I guess I'll look it up when I have time. It's not vital. *shrug* It doesn't matter that much ? if I really care I can go and read the documentation myself, and I don't expect you to invest substantial time into my curiosity here. :) Regards, Daniel From kiirani at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 18:34:29 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Mon Apr 27 18:34:36 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Why arch? In-Reply-To: <87mya2ip68.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904251800p4ab053a2h44379232e8c82a23@mail.gmail.com> <87d4b0giml.fsf_-_@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904260111q78fbf720u634e814cdd2f1bff@mail.gmail.com> <87prezfrkc.fsf@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904262201x3ee6145es5ed73b8097476c2e@mail.gmail.com> <878wlmk69o.fsf@rimspace.net> <2494ad260904262325j7c746484y6d0c6bd665d8a0a6@mail.gmail.com> <87mya2ip68.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2494ad260904262334w435c6b14ge69c82690e867e1b@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/27 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: > Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> writes: >> 2009/4/27 Daniel Pittman <daniel@rimspace.net>: >>> *nod* ?Out of interest, how do you find the arch system handles >>> situations where a "stable" upgrade requires configuration changes, or >>> where it requires rebuilding significant volumes of software? >> >> Hmmm. I believe arch has a system for this, but I honestly haven't >> made use of it. ?Gentoo was probably best at this with >> "dispatch-conf". >> >> I've just been working it out by whether or not things break, but I'm >> fairly positive that there is actually a way to get the distro to >> inform you. I guess I'll look it up when I have time. It's not vital. > > *shrug* ?It doesn't matter that much ? if I really care I can go and > read the documentation myself, and I don't expect you to invest > substantial time into my curiosity here. :) Hehe. I was actually meaning that I should probably go and look it up for my own benefit. You've kind of reminded me that there are a lot of automated processes that I used to have set up which I've sacrificed for the sake of not having to set them up. From nevynh at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 21:13:16 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Mon Apr 27 21:13:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <27334.119.15.0.26.1240806714.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> References: <173321.12660.qm@web26103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <27334.119.15.0.26.1240806714.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904270213x78f53c92pdb5e0aaf6f716ff5@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Mark Foster <blakjak@blakjak.net> wrote: > > Several of the above have supported the LUG before. > However I would again encourage you to first have a structured event and a > clearly established idea of cost:benefit for the sponsor to get on board. > This will give an idea pretty quickly of the kinda money or other perks > one is likely to see. > > Ultimately, if you can show to the potential sponsor the benefits to them > in being engaged as such, they will usually get on board. :-) > Especially some of those who've previously had a lot of time for the > Auckland LUG'rs. ?(One name that immediately leaps out is Novell, there > are others i'm sure...) > > Mark. Yep - Novell definitely jump out at me - they've helped with pizza and a venue. DSE have also made small contributions in the past such as spindles of cd's. I'm not sure but I don't think the Acer thing went down too well when one of the members of the LUG came up with a suggested image for their Linux laptops. I think Mark's hit right on the issue though. If you want sponsorship you need something solid. Sponsorship sort of works both ways. If it can be a PR exercise, then all the good - but to make something a PR exercise you need to have the numbers. I.e. at the last installfest organised by AuckLUG we had good numbers through the door - a fair bit of running around matching people through the door with people who could help them with their area of interest. We also had a rather large Novell stand as they had helped out in various ways (though there were also issues around making the installfest distro neutral and threats of another competing installfest starting up due to these issues). It was worth something to Novell to be there and put some money in to make sure it worked. The list Jaco's come up with does need some serious weeding out. For example, if you go to Dell's (New Zealand) website and do a search on Ubuntu, you get very few results - none of which are a product. Try searching for "Linux Laptop" and you get 5 products - 1 not having Linux at all, 2 of the results are the same machine in a different finish. The Precision M4400 and Precision M2400 are both over the $3,500 mark, and the Precision M6400 being over the $6,000 mark. Dell really don't appear to be interested in getting Linux on the desktop within New Zealand - and yet the news that Dell was going to offer some Ubuntu offerings came out back in 2007. Not a good pick. Generally speaking though, first figure out the event and get the ball rolling and then find sponsorship. You're not going to get anywhere without first figuring out what you're getting sponsorship for. Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 28 09:44:16 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Apr 28 09:44:28 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship Message-ID: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Thanks for the suggestion, guys * motivation: still figuring that one out. More people are likely to participate if they could get something more out of it (like pizza, beer or a netbook), and retailer/manufacturers can get buy-in from a growing market-sector (retail FOSS). I'm no economist, so I'm trying to figure out incentives around this one myself. * Novell; nice idea, thanks. Will look into it * distro-independence. I see what you mean, though I would argue that total independence is not entirely feasible, purely by virtue of the number of flavours out there. I'd argue the big 3 or 4: Debian/*ubuntu (as this is what I know best & seems to be the most prevent among members & newcomers), RedHat for historical & biz reasons, SuSE, as they're a major player to contend with (though I'm aware of some of the "political" implications), and BSD for the hard-core. Any more than these may prove to be a distraction. For distro-independent installfests, multiple systems would be required to demo. * Dell is shaping up to be one of the biggest supporters of GNU/Linux-compatible hardware on the market (others inclusive Asus, Acer, & some of the others mentioned), though I've not seen this growth translated locally. It's a chicken & egg scenario: Dell has little incentive to make non-win systems available, as these little to no demand; there's no demand because there's no local supply or support. Much the same can be said for other manufacturers. This is evidenced by the NetBook-phenomenon in the last year: NetBooks enormous success is thanks largely to the free OS & applications that lowers the TCO, though this has apparently not taken root locally (try & ask PB-Tech for a windows-free/Linux netbook, or a refund of the windows licence). I suspect that there may also be some dirty tricks at play from {...insert dirty player name here...}, but that's sour grapes/a topic for another discussion. Will get input & arguments at the next meet (we still on for VoIP on Mon @ OSS?). Thanks - J From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 12:49:24 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Apr 28 12:49:39 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904271749u4009dd8areeedd7ab1e982f95@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > <snip> > * distro-independence. I see what you mean, though I would argue that total independence is not entirely feasible, purely by virtue of the number of flavours out there. I'd argue the big 3 or 4: Debian/*ubuntu (as this is what I know best & seems to be the most prevent among members & newcomers), RedHat for historical & biz reasons, SuSE, as they're a major player to contend with (though I'm aware of some of the "political" implications), and BSD for the hard-core. Any more than these may prove to be a distraction. For distro-independent installfests, multiple systems would be required to demo. </snip> It actually worked. Novell had a rather eye catching stand, along one side we had demo machines - it was great having Liz's kids sitting there playing on one of these - sort of a "it's really not that hard" sort of thing. On most of the other side of the room (if I remember correctly) people had volunteered to do installations of their favourite distributions. You signed up and had a walk around until the person doing that particular distro was able to sit down with you and go through the installation. I signed up for slackware, and broke the installation (on purpose as I sort of see the installation as one of the main stumbling blocks and the more robust an installation process is, the one less frustrating stumbling block you have) - so never actually got to play with slackware. A work colleague turned up and he was only really interested in the configuration of something so we found another volunteer who was willing to sit down and go through the configuration files with him and field any questions. We had a table just fill of written cd's of various different distros. It was easy to just hand someone a distro based upon what they were interested in. Ok so if none of us weren't interested in a particular distro, it wasn't represented but then you had Ubuntu, Debian, Suse, CentOS, Slackware which is a pretty good cross section I think. The one that has me intrigued though is PCLinux. It doesn't get much mention on this list yet it's usually somewhere near the top in distrowatch. I think the "ego" of any particular distribution became less important and it became about what people wanted from their systems rather than which distro tries to provide a bit of everything to everyone. Regards, Nevyn. From nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz Tue Apr 28 20:46:10 2009 From: nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz (Glen Ogilvie) Date: Tue Apr 28 20:46:26 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> Hi, Yes, I can confirm that OSS is happy to host the May meetup on the 4th. The address is: Level 1, Compass building 162 Grafton Road opposite southen cross. Parking is on Grafton road with parks extending across the bridge. My contact phone number is 021 684 146, anyone running late may need this. The front door will be locked, so myself or other OSS staff member will come down to let people in. What time does the meeting usually start? Regards Glen Ogilvie On Saturday 25 April 2009, Nevyn wrote: > So long as Glen Ogilvie can confirm the venue I don't see why not. > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Chilling_Silence > > <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > > Absolutely :) > > Slideshow and potentially a recording will be online. > > > > The plan is to bring some printed copies of the slides as well, you never > > know... > > > > So, just to confirm, I am actually expected to do this? Monday the 4th of > > May? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://www.linux.net.nz/pipermail/aucklug/attachments/20090428/a3c1b11d/attachment.pgp From robin.paulson at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 21:48:08 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Tue Apr 28 21:48:18 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] fast-booting minimal linux Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904280248t2e61c5e4y580fc5ef16dc6dda@mail.gmail.com> i was browsing through the linux devices site today, when i saw this: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6115531495.html it's an article about an os based on xandros, which boots to the desktop in a few seconds. it's available as an installer for windows, but not linux. it looks like it requires no specialist hardware (unlike the similar splashtop os that was announced a while back) anyone have any ideas where i could get something like this, that doesn't require xp to install it? i'd love to have even a minimal os that boots in <10 seconds also, how do they distribute a GPL'd product (available as paid, or 7-day demo), in binary form, without supplying the source code? From thetoolman at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 23:34:30 2009 From: thetoolman at gmail.com (Tim Toolman) Date: Tue Apr 28 23:35:13 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] fast-booting minimal linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904280248t2e61c5e4y580fc5ef16dc6dda@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904280248t2e61c5e4y580fc5ef16dc6dda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <d69be7e20904280434q3bbbea2cqe5a93ecd582f7a13@mail.gmail.com> I tried out xPud : http://www.xpud.org/ Boots in about 8 second on my pc. Still early dev, not much hardware support but great promise there. 2009/4/28 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> > i was browsing through the linux devices site today, when i saw this: > > http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6115531495.html > > it's an article about an os based on xandros, which boots to the > desktop in a few seconds. it's available as an installer for windows, > but not linux. it looks like it requires no specialist hardware > (unlike the similar splashtop os that was announced a while back) > > anyone have any ideas where i could get something like this, that > doesn't require xp to install it? i'd love to have even a minimal os > that boots in <10 seconds > > also, how do they distribute a GPL'd product (available as paid, or > 7-day demo), in binary form, without supplying the source code? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > -- Tim Taylor +64 21 0541287 From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 23:51:55 2009 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Apr 28 23:52:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] fast-booting minimal linux In-Reply-To: <d69be7e20904280434q3bbbea2cqe5a93ecd582f7a13@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904280248t2e61c5e4y580fc5ef16dc6dda@mail.gmail.com> <d69be7e20904280434q3bbbea2cqe5a93ecd582f7a13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920904280451u54f75b81vcc1d066453673f99@mail.gmail.com> Hi, There is a beta version of xandros presto available in the septic tank ( piratebay.org) for torrent download, don't know how good it is or how many bugs it comes with. Kevin 2009/4/28 Tim Toolman <thetoolman@gmail.com> > I tried out xPud : http://www.xpud.org/ > > Boots in about 8 second on my pc. Still early dev, not much hardware > support but great promise there. > > 2009/4/28 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> > > > i was browsing through the linux devices site today, when i saw this: > > > > http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6115531495.html > > > > it's an article about an os based on xandros, which boots to the > > desktop in a few seconds. it's available as an installer for windows, > > but not linux. it looks like it requires no specialist hardware > > (unlike the similar splashtop os that was announced a while back) > > > > anyone have any ideas where i could get something like this, that > > doesn't require xp to install it? i'd love to have even a minimal os > > that boots in <10 seconds > > > > also, how do they distribute a GPL'd product (available as paid, or > > 7-day demo), in binary form, without supplying the source code? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AuckLUG mailing list > > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > > > -- > Tim Taylor > +64 21 0541287 > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 00:33:22 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 29 00:33:41 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] fast-booting minimal linux In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904280248t2e61c5e4y580fc5ef16dc6dda@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904280248t2e61c5e4y580fc5ef16dc6dda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904280533h5dc839fdy4520e5ddbe1ca1c2@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: > > also, how do they distribute a GPL'd product (available as paid, or > 7-day demo), in binary form, without supplying the source code? They must still make the GPL'd code available but can charge for parts that they produce themselves. From the license agreement: C. In addition to the freely distributable Software Programs, some versions of Xandros Desktop may also include certain Software Programs that are not distributed under the terms of the GPL or similar licenses that permit modification and redistribution. Generally, each of these Software Programs is distributed under the terms of a license agreement that grants the licensed user to install each of the Software Programs on a single computer for the user's own individual use. Copying (other than for archival purposes), redistribution, reverse engineering, decompiling and/or modification of these Software Programs is prohibited. Any violation by the user of the applicable license terms shall immediately terminate the license to use the Software Program. In order to view the complete terms and conditions which govern the use of these Software Programs, please consult the license agreement that accompanies each of the Software Programs. If the user does not agree to comply with and be bound by the terms of the applicable license agreements, do not install, distribute or otherwise use the relevant Software Program. If the user wishes to install these Software Programs on more than one computer, please contact the vendor of the program to inquire about purchasing additional licenses. It's their software - they can license it as they like so long as it does not contain GPL code. i.e. making a modification to a piece of GPL software means that the modifications to the GPL software must be available as code BUT that does not mean that they have to release code to programs they've created and they're free to charge for there programs. Regards, Nevyn. From kiirani at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 15:07:06 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Wed Apr 29 15:07:15 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/28 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk>: > * distro-independence. I see what you mean, though I would argue that total independence is not entirely feasible, purely by virtue of the number of flavours out there. I'd argue the big 3 or 4: Debian/*ubuntu (as this is what I know best & seems to be the most prevent among members & newcomers), RedHat for historical & biz reasons, SuSE, as they're a major player to contend with (though I'm aware of some of the "political" implications), and BSD for the hard-core. I hate to be pedantic, but BSD, by definition of being... BSD ... is not linux. From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 15:47:42 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 29 15:47:51 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/4/28 Jaco van der Merwe <freakalad@yahoo.co.uk>: >> * distro-independence. I see what you mean, though I would argue that total independence is not entirely feasible, purely by virtue of the number of flavours out there. I'd argue the big 3 or 4: Debian/*ubuntu (as this is what I know best & seems to be the most prevent among members & newcomers), RedHat for historical & biz reasons, SuSE, as they're a major player to contend with (though I'm aware of some of the "political" implications), and BSD for the hard-core. > > I hate to be pedantic, but BSD, by definition of being... BSD ... is not linux. Good call. I'm wondering how many people here have tried some of the alternative OSS OSes? i.e. Solaris, BSD, Darwin, <*cough*> reactos </*cough> etc. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 16:01:15 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Apr 29 16:02:33 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904282101v5679c995x886357ac4de49ffa@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/29 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> wrote: >> I hate to be pedantic, but BSD, by definition of being... BSD ... is not linux. true, but since when was aucklug about linux? i've seen talks on reprap, bash, s92a, none of which are about linux > Good call. I'm wondering how many people here have tried some of the > alternative OSS OSes? i.e. Solaris, BSD, Darwin, <*cough*> reactos > </*cough> etc. yeah, i gave reactos a go, a few years back. usable for some value of that word, but i think their assertion it was only designed for education and so on was a well-made point (this may have changed since) i hear it helped some with advancing the wine project though From kiirani at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 16:09:15 2009 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Wed Apr 29 16:09:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904282101v5679c995x886357ac4de49ffa@mail.gmail.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904282101v5679c995x886357ac4de49ffa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260904282109r5d390ceauaf5d6d8d409151a9@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/29 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: > 2009/4/29 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >>On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I hate to be pedantic, but BSD, by definition of being... BSD ... is not linux. > > true, but since when was aucklug about linux? i've seen talks on > reprap, bash, s92a, none of which are about linux 1) Things other than linux are generally linux-related, eg will work on linux, are common interests among linux users, etc. 2) Talking about non-linux things in a linux user group is one thing. Calling BSD a linux distribution is entirely another. From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 16:46:31 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 29 16:46:42 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <2494ad260904282109r5d390ceauaf5d6d8d409151a9@mail.gmail.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904282101v5679c995x886357ac4de49ffa@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904282109r5d390ceauaf5d6d8d409151a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904282146k1a155f26h9e4af09bcbc55ffd@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/4/29 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: >> 2009/4/29 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >>>On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I hate to be pedantic, but BSD, by definition of being... BSD ... is not linux. >> >> true, but since when was aucklug about linux? i've seen talks on >> reprap, bash, s92a, none of which are about linux > > 1) Things other than linux are generally linux-related, eg will work > on linux, are common interests among linux users, etc. > 2) Talking about non-linux things in a linux user group is one thing. > Calling BSD a linux distribution is entirely another. While maintaining that we are a Linux group and discussions should be Linux related, the AuckLUG has always had a fairly relaxed attitude towards the other OSS OSes. However, I do not remember ever seeing a strictly BSD or Solaris etc. conversation on either here or NZLUG. It should be noted though, that these are the exceptions i.e. not Linux. From blakjak at blakjak.net Wed Apr 29 17:24:32 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Wed Apr 29 17:24:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904282146k1a155f26h9e4af09bcbc55ffd@mail.gmail.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904282101v5679c995x886357ac4de49ffa@mail.gmail.com> <2494ad260904282109r5d390ceauaf5d6d8d409151a9@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282146k1a155f26h9e4af09bcbc55ffd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0904291723370.10440@skyhawk.blakjak.net> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009, Nevyn wrote: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> wrote: >> 2009/4/29 Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com>: >>> 2009/4/29 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: >>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Kennedy Skelton <kiirani@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> I hate to be pedantic, but BSD, by definition of being... BSD ... is not linux. >>> >>> true, but since when was aucklug about linux? i've seen talks on >>> reprap, bash, s92a, none of which are about linux >> >> 1) Things other than linux are generally linux-related, eg will work >> on linux, are common interests among linux users, etc. >> 2) Talking about non-linux things in a linux user group is one thing. >> Calling BSD a linux distribution is entirely another. > > While maintaining that we are a Linux group and discussions should be > Linux related, the AuckLUG has always had a fairly relaxed attitude > towards the other OSS OSes. However, I do not remember ever seeing a > strictly BSD or Solaris etc. conversation on either here or NZLUG. It > should be noted though, that these are the exceptions i.e. not Linux. > >From the AUP: "Subjects with a vague or passing relationship to Linux are appropriate in moderation and subject to the general mood of the list at the time." I'd consider F/OSS discussions are not an issue so long as they are not detracting from our cause. I don't see a flood of 'oi, list is too noisy, keep the non-linux-bit down' complaints... From Daemonax at orcon.net.nz Wed Apr 29 19:13:35 2009 From: Daemonax at orcon.net.nz (Josh Martens) Date: Wed Apr 29 19:13:53 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1240989215.6281.0.camel@studypad> > Good call. I'm wondering how many people here have tried some of the > alternative OSS OSes? i.e. Solaris, BSD, Darwin, <*cough*> reactos > </*cough> etc. > ReactOS has a livecd available, I tried it a while ago, it was quite buggy, but very interesting to play around with for a few minutes. > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 20:00:43 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Apr 29 20:08:47 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] problems with flash installer Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904290100j1db5411dt4f4792e3add49ee8@mail.gmail.com> hi all, after finding the root of the problems last week with the lock-ups and X server crashes (it was the psu; cheers glen for the replacement), i got my system up and running and upgraded to the new ubuntu...which is where things started going downhill again first, my modified xorg.conf caused major problems with the upgrade, which bugged out part-way through, and left a heap of broken dependencies and no working networking i fixed that, but one of the packages must have got corrupted along the way, and now i can't change any packages at all the offending package is flashplugin-nonfree, and the error i'm getting when i try to reinstall it (the action recommended by apt-get) is: $ sudo dpkg --install flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb (Reading database ... 178399 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace flashplugin-nonfree 10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1 (using flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb) ... Segmentation fault dpkg: warning - old pre-removal script returned error exit status 139 dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ... /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/prerm: 88: cho: not found dpkg: error processing flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb (--install): subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 127 dpkg: error while cleaning up: subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Segmentation fault) Errors were encountered while processing: flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb removing it doesn't work, neither does manually installing the upgrade. so, any suggestions? cheers From josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz Wed Apr 29 21:05:26 2009 From: josephhenryblack at yahoo.co.nz (JHB) Date: Wed Apr 29 21:08:09 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] was Sponsorship, Wine and Reactos In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904282101v5679c995x886357ac4de49ffa@mail.gmail.com> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> <2f3aa2770904282101v5679c995x886357ac4de49ffa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49F81856.5060001@yahoo.co.nz> Robin Paulson wrote: > yeah, i gave reactos a go, a few years back. usable for some value of > that word, but i think their assertion it was only designed for > education and so on was a well-made point (this may have changed > since) > > i hear it helped some with advancing the wine project though > That was a fair time ago. These days, Wine no longer accepts code from Reactos (since the claims were made about a Reactos developer copying microsoft code and no, have no idea if it was true, I dont follow reactos at all). Wine devs have said they even want the appearance of being squeeky clean. Some developers have commented that the Reactos code audit was not adequate for Wine's needs and until Reactos works with the SFLC to do an audit no code is accepted. I seem to remember not so long ago someone who had looked at reactos code was prevented from contributing. this has some info http://www.linux.com/feature/51800 HTH JHB From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 21:20:42 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 29 21:21:02 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Sponsorship In-Reply-To: <1240989215.6281.0.camel@studypad> References: <326987.24710.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260904282007h40449bc7g5e57c82117f6f9ca@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904282047s1c69b71ci36d2eeed3c32761c@mail.gmail.com> <1240989215.6281.0.camel@studypad> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904290220j1d197496pad9e036967a17820@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Josh Martens <Daemonax@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > >> Good call. I'm wondering how many people here have tried some of the >> alternative OSS OSes? i.e. Solaris, BSD, Darwin, <*cough*> reactos >> </*cough> etc. >> > ReactOS has a livecd available, I tried it a while ago, it was quite > buggy, but very interesting to play around with for a few minutes. I just don't see it as a destination. It's sort of like an Aesop's Fable - it has lessons and can teach us all sorts of things, but in itself ... well I guess time will tell. Their website seems to be fairly optimistic (from their front page): Short-term plan The next release will be 0.3.10, with an earliest projected release date being June, 2009. Medium-term plan The coming 0.4 release series will still stay in alpha stage, and 0.5 release series will be marked as beta, meaning a system which is suitable for every day use. However, it feels a bit like Wine. Great if something works for you but for the most part it feels like a band aid. The band aid may get wet and start to peel at times and is never going to live up to everyone's expectations. From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 22:29:20 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Apr 29 22:29:34 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] problems with flash installer In-Reply-To: <2f3aa2770904290100j1db5411dt4f4792e3add49ee8@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904290100j1db5411dt4f4792e3add49ee8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904290329p8a54effi394592102e2e8b87@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Robin Paulson <robin.paulson@gmail.com> wrote: > hi all, > after finding the root of the problems last week with the lock-ups and > X server crashes (it was the psu; cheers glen for the replacement), i > got my system up and running and upgraded to the new ubuntu...which is > where things started going downhill again > > first, my modified xorg.conf caused major problems with the upgrade, > which bugged out part-way through, and left a heap of broken > dependencies and no working networking > > i fixed that, but one of the packages must have got corrupted along > the way, and now i can't change any packages at all > > the offending package is flashplugin-nonfree, and the error i'm > getting when i try to reinstall it (the action recommended by apt-get) > is: > > $ sudo dpkg --install flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb > > (Reading database ... 178399 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace flashplugin-nonfree 10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1 > (using flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb) ... > Segmentation fault > dpkg: warning - old pre-removal script returned error exit status 139 > dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ... > /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/prerm: 88: cho: not found > dpkg: error processing > flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb (--install): > ?subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 127 > dpkg: error while cleaning up: > ?subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Segmentation fault) > Errors were encountered while processing: > ?flashplugin-nonfree_10.0.22.87ubuntu1~intrepid1_i386.deb > > removing it doesn't work, neither does manually installing the upgrade. > > so, any suggestions? > > cheers sudo aptitude purge flashplugin-nonfree ?? Not sure if it'll work but it's worth a try. If you do manage to purge it, have a go at deleting the package (though it shouldn't be corrupted but just to play it on the safe side...): sudo rm /var/cache/apt/archive/flashplugin-nonfree* Then try reinstalling it. Regards, Nevyn. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 22:48:30 2009 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Apr 29 22:48:40 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] problems with flash installer In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904290329p8a54effi394592102e2e8b87@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f3aa2770904290100j1db5411dt4f4792e3add49ee8@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904290329p8a54effi394592102e2e8b87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770904290348x59a3b1eah396d8558b0af05f1@mail.gmail.com> 2009/4/29 Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com>: > sudo aptitude purge flashplugin-nonfree > ?? Not sure if it'll work but it's worth a try. If you do manage to > purge it, have a go at deleting the package (though it shouldn't be > corrupted but just to play it on the safe side...): > sudo rm /var/cache/apt/archive/flashplugin-nonfree* thanks nevyn. no doubt as you were typing, i solved the problem. i traced it to a segfault when 'update-alternatives' was called by the pre-removal script so, i went for the windows solution, and re-booted. no more segfaulting, problem solved From john at og.co.nz Thu Apr 30 08:45:22 2009 From: john at og.co.nz (john) Date: Thu Apr 30 08:50:52 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> Message-ID: <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> Will there be an _official_ notice of next Monday's (4 May) LUG meeting? John O'Gorman Glen Ogilvie wrote: > Hi, > > Yes, I can confirm that OSS is happy to host the May meetup on the 4th. > > The address is: > Level 1, Compass building > 162 Grafton Road > opposite southen cross. > > Parking is on Grafton road with parks extending across the bridge. > > My contact phone number is 021 684 146, anyone running late may need this. > > The front door will be locked, so myself or other OSS staff member will come > down to let people in. > > What time does the meeting usually start? > > Regards > Glen Ogilvie > > > On Saturday 25 April 2009, Nevyn wrote: > >> So long as Glen Ogilvie can confirm the venue I don't see why not. >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Chilling_Silence >> >> <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: >> >>> Absolutely :) >>> Slideshow and potentially a recording will be online. >>> >>> The plan is to bring some printed copies of the slides as well, you never >>> know... >>> >>> So, just to confirm, I am actually expected to do this? Monday the 4th of >>> May? >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 08:56:34 2009 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Apr 30 08:56:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> Message-ID: <bcdb9ee50904291356g3801f6bbxc1caf4050bc62677@mail.gmail.com> That can be organised ;). I'll get on to it this evening. Not entirely sure how to put it on the front page of linux.net.nz but I'll figure it out. Jaco - do you still administer the facebook page? (it was facebook right?) On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, john <john@og.co.nz> wrote: > Will there be an _official_ notice of next Monday's (4 May) LUG meeting? From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 30 09:48:10 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Apr 30 09:48:41 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] BSD & flash Message-ID: <205947.81848.qm@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <quote>I hate to be pedantic, but BSD, by definition of being... BSD ... is not linux.</quote> (more Unix that GNU/Linux?) I know, but I try to familiarise myself with the wider systems. BSD is very important in skinny, hardened & secure systems, like FreeNAS & pfSense (to name a few), not to mention the importance of the BSD licence (leaving arguing the merits of licences for another day: GPLx, BSD, Apache, Mozilla, etc). Anyone use OpenSSH & checked out it's licence? <quote>Good call. I'm wondering how many people here have tried some of the alternative OSS OSes? i.e. Solaris, BSD, Darwin, <*cough*> reactos</*cough> etc.</quote> Not had time to muck about with Solaris (much); Darwin (aka Mac OS/X) is pretty good on all accounts (family of BSD, AFAIK), ReactOS (the "win-replacement") is a nice idea, but sux (unusable in production). Interesting poll here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/which-linux-distribution-do-you-use-most-frequently RE: problems with flash installer Compatibility issues in my Jaunty-64 for me have been somewhat significant, ranging from ATI 3D drivers to 64-bit flash. Getting there in tiny increments. I've had issues in the past on Hadry & Intrepid, but this seems to have been addressed by referencing (via link) to the 32-bit libraries. I think there where similar issues with skype, adode air, cirtix, & a few other proprietary applications - J From gordonisnz at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 09:25:15 2009 From: gordonisnz at gmail.com (Gordon Stewart) Date: Thu Apr 30 09:53:22 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904291356g3801f6bbxc1caf4050bc62677@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904291356g3801f6bbxc1caf4050bc62677@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9a3273a00904291425y4b6103a3s3f3de81c26ba0e90@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: > That can be organised ;). > > I'll get on to it this evening. Not entirely sure how to put it on the > front page of linux.net.nz but I'll figure it out. > > Jaco - do you still administer the facebook page? (it was facebook right?) Does Auckland Linux group need / want a website ? I can set one up & give selected people FTP access - a subdomain on my site... (even an email address) (sent Steve a private reply a day or so ago..) -- G Freecycle Auckland :- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AucklandFreecycle/ From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Thu Apr 30 10:16:45 2009 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Thu Apr 30 10:17:04 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904301007100.24272@feathers.sig.net.nz> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009, John O'Gorman wrote: > Will there be an _official_ notice of next Monday's (4 May) LUG meeting? Hear yea, hear yea! Official notice of the next monthly meeting of the Auckland Linux Users' Group. Topic: Nevyn & Chill talking about stuff ... When: 20090504T1900+1200 Where: the OSS offices 162 Grafton Rd http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=fr&q=&vps=1&jsv=156c&sll=-36.863588,174.76716&sspn=0.016893,0.038624&ie=UTF8&geocode=FRZ_zf0dlrFqCg&split=0 Parking: after 6pm on-street parking is free along Grafton Rd, especially towards the motorway over-bridge Apologies/non-attending: from the coordinator, I won't be there (as it's my wife's birthday). -Martin From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Thu Apr 30 10:54:34 2009 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Thu Apr 30 10:54:43 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] Hello, New user In-Reply-To: <BA04FB6D-5E96-43AE-B0E4-D1315B0AE5BD@gmail.com> References: <9a3273a00904250706j748c8369o5bbe3eab81394d70@mail.gmail.com> <BA04FB6D-5E96-43AE-B0E4-D1315B0AE5BD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904301052540.24272@feathers.sig.net.nz> On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Steve Withers wrote: > Hi Gordon > > I'm on the North Shore too. Happy to help. You get Ubuntu by downloading a CD > image file from ubuntu.com and writing it to CD-R or CD-RW. You probably want to use the local mirror (hosted by Ihug/Vodafone). It's probably quicker, and if your ISP gives you free or cheaper national traffic it can save you quite a bit too. -Martin PS: I work for Ihug/Vodafone. If you have any trouble with the mirror please let me know. From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Apr 30 11:24:16 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Apr 30 11:24:30 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <bcdb9ee50904291356g3801f6bbxc1caf4050bc62677@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904291356g3801f6bbxc1caf4050bc62677@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13945.119.15.0.26.1241047456.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Thu, April 30, 2009 8:56 am, Nevyn wrote: > That can be organised ;). > > I'll get on to it this evening. Not entirely sure how to put it on the > front page of linux.net.nz but I'll figure it out. > > Jaco - do you still administer the facebook page? (it was facebook right?) I can put data on both facebook and linux.net.nz - just send it my way... From Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz Thu Apr 30 12:16:13 2009 From: Chilling_Silence at orcon.net.nz (Chilling_Silence) Date: Thu Apr 30 12:16:23 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904301007100.24272@feathers.sig.net.nz> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904301007100.24272@feathers.sig.net.nz> Message-ID: <2987f0d40904291716x4c35cc1clfde6efa5d0445721@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Martin D Kealey <martin@kurahaupo.gen.nz>wrote: > Topic: Nevyn & Chill talking about stuff ... > > When: 20090504T1900+1200 > > Where: the OSS offices > 162 Grafton Rd > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=fr&q=&vps=1&jsv=156c&sll=-36.863588,174.76716&sspn=0.016893,0.038624&ie=UTF8&geocode=FRZ_zf0dlrFqCg&split=0 > > Parking: > after 6pm on-street parking is free along Grafton Rd, especially > towards the motorway over-bridge Is there any chance there will be some description of Internet Access there? It'd be awesome if I could demo a live-system and bring along an IP Phone or two like the SPA962 to show people. From nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz Thu Apr 30 12:30:15 2009 From: nelg at linuxsolutions.co.nz (Glen Ogilvie) Date: Thu Apr 30 12:30:27 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <2987f0d40904291716x4c35cc1clfde6efa5d0445721@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0904301007100.24272@feathers.sig.net.nz> <2987f0d40904291716x4c35cc1clfde6efa5d0445721@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <027b57b49733b27674f6db00e891090b@localhost> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:16:13 +1200, Chilling_Silence <Chilling_Silence@orcon.net.nz> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Martin D Kealey > <martin@kurahaupo.gen.nz>wrote: > >> Topic: Nevyn & Chill talking about stuff ... >> >> When: 20090504T1900+1200 >> >> Where: the OSS offices >> 162 Grafton Rd >> >> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=fr&q=&vps=1&jsv=156c&sll=-36.863588,174.76716&sspn=0.016893,0.038624&ie=UTF8&geocode=FRZ_zf0dlrFqCg&split=0 >> >> Parking: >> after 6pm on-street parking is free along Grafton Rd, especially >> towards the motorway over-bridge > > > Is there any chance there will be some description of Internet Access > there? > It'd be awesome if I could demo a live-system and bring along an IP Phone > or two like the SPA962 to show people. Hi, We will provide a single Ethernet connection for the presenter with outgoing internet access (nat). The will be no dhcp, so you will need to configure your interface with settings supplied by me when you arrive. Regards Glen Ogilvie OSS From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Apr 30 12:38:09 2009 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Apr 30 12:38:17 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] AuckLUG event posting on FB Message-ID: <640605.98975.qm@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi guys, My understanding is that there'll be a discussion on VoIP, with focus on Asterisk. Discussion's scope is so big, it's been suggested that it be drawn out over more than a single discussion/workshop. As requested, I've updated the FB events page: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=42213500988 Added address, links & resources. Will bring a few voip-distros (tribox) for those interested Re page: found with the RP event, that's it pretty quick & dirty to set up a blogger/blogspot page (forgot about these...). Simple, tweakable & well-suited for community input. Most/many members have gmail/openID accounts, so participation could be simplified. May be handy for once-off postings & musings Thanks for the offers, info & suggestions, Mark & Martin. Nevyn & Mr.Chill, shout if you need anything. I'd be happy to sacrifice my minime/eeepc netbookif you want to set up anything from scratch (from ext USB-HDD or USB-CD) Cheers - J From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Apr 30 15:38:16 2009 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Apr 30 15:38:25 2009 Subject: [AuckLUG] May meeting for Auckland LUG In-Reply-To: <9a3273a00904291425y4b6103a3s3f3de81c26ba0e90@mail.gmail.com> References: <185784.39720.qm@web26107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2987f0d40904242032p412e203aw1e824fed92667a0e@mail.gmail.com> <bcdb9ee50904242230u353bec8dwe3a624e088daedac@mail.gmail.com> <200904282046.13331.nelg@linuxsolutions.co.nz> <49F8BC62.4080901@og.co.nz> <bcdb9ee50904291356g3801f6bbxc1caf4050bc62677@mail.gmail.com> <9a3273a00904291425y4b6103a3s3f3de81c26ba0e90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50367.119.15.0.26.1241062696.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Thu, April 30, 2009 9:25 am, Gordon Stewart wrote: > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Nevyn <nevynh@gmail.com> wrote: >> That can be organised ;). >> >> I'll get on to it this evening. Not entirely sure how to put it on the >> front page of linux.net.nz but I'll figure it out. >> >> Jaco - do you still administer the facebook page? (it was facebook >> right?) > > > Does Auckland Linux group need / want a website ? > > I can set one up & give selected people FTP access - a subdomain on my > site... > (even an email address) > > I take it you were unaware of the following? http://auckland.linux.net.nz I've been hosting a website for AuckLUG since it's instigation. Between that site, the fact www.linux.net.nz does most of the donkeywork on the generic stuff plus publicises events, etc, and more recent developments with things like Facebook... short of the LUG creating its own CMS or Wiki or whatever, what do you want in a website?