From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Mon Dec 1 10:00:14 2008 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin Kealey) Date: Mon Dec 1 10:00:42 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Auckland monthly LUG meeting tonight at Vodafone -- PLEASE REPLY (headcount needed) Message-ID: Hi Everyone Unfortunately our usual meeting venue at the University of Auckland isn't available this month, and so Vodafone have agreed to host the meeting. (*1) However because the meeting room is "inside the red zone" they want to have security guards on, and so they'd like a headcount so they know how many. Please reply and let me know if you think you'd like to attend tonight. Either email martin.kealey@vodafone.com or txt me on 021-627007. Vodafone's building ("v.nue") is on the corner of Fanshaw Street and Halsey Drive, but the entrance is off Viaduct Harbour Avenue. (Quite near the HP building where we used to meet.) Start time 7:00 pm; txt me if you arrive before 6:30-ish. -Martin *1: this is subject to getting a reasonable" turn out, so please DO reply. If I don't get at enough people I may have to cancel the meeting room. I suggest sending me a mobile number where I can TXT you if this happens. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 10:33:29 2008 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Dec 1 10:33:34 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Auckland monthly LUG meeting tonight at Vodafone -- PLEASE REPLY (headcount needed) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f3aa2770811301333x57086e05jdd6ac462976f921d@mail.gmail.com> 2008/12/1 Martin Kealey : > Unfortunately our usual meeting venue at the University of Auckland isn't > available this month, and so Vodafone have agreed to host the meeting. (*1) is there a speaker tonight, what is he/she talking on? From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Mon Dec 1 11:45:01 2008 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Mon Dec 1 11:45:48 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: [nzlug] Auckland monthly LUG meeting tonight at Vodafone -- PLEASE REPLY (headcount needed) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, Nevyn wrote: > Martin - is there a subject on the agenda or is it just a general sort > of meet and greet? What I'm planning for is a combination, but it's a bit play-it-by-ear. Meet-and-greet until about 7:15. Then a short talk, subject to wrangling a speaker; failing that (and if people are keen) I can talk about "interesting ways to break your email service" and/or "obfuscated bash scripting and other fun"). Then I'm hoping to have an "ask the experts" panel session. Volunteers to be "experts" gratefully accepted: do you know how to script a PPP connection? Compile a device driver? Convert a Windows installation to a VM? Hand-roll an xorg.conf? Cross-compile a Palm-OS app using GCC? -Martin From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Dec 1 13:34:28 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Dec 1 13:34:41 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: [nzlug] Auckland monthly LUG meeting tonight at Vodafone -- PLEASE REPLY (headcount needed) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44804.119.15.0.26.1228091668.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Thank you for posting details Martin - I will see about getting it publicised further. It's on the Facebook group now at least. :-) If you want to do a bit of a 'howto' night it might pay to have some demo machines handy that can be used as examples. Or to put it another way, if someone in Auckland want's some help from the group, perhaps make arrangements to bring your computer into town.. From blakjak at blakjak.net Mon Dec 1 13:57:49 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Mon Dec 1 13:58:02 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Facebook members: A New Group... Linux and Open Source... Message-ID: <54368.119.15.0.26.1228093069.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Yeah I know it's a bit spammesque, please bear with me and forgive the nasty crosspost: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=35702173285&ref=mf The above Facebook Group is for New Zealand Linux and Free/Open Source users, fans and fanatics. Please join and contribute if you're a facebook user, ya'never know - it may have value ;-) I'm particularly keen to see it as another avenue for us to get the message across, news and events can be fed into it. (I hae some minor issues with the way Facebook architects their 'Groups' systems, which i'm currently lobbying them about, if anyone has an inside track, i'm all ears...) Cheers Mark. PS: Credit where it's due, Jaco from the AuckLUG started the ball rolling here. Thanks Jaco. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Tue Dec 2 13:16:07 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Tue Dec 2 13:16:16 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2.0 Message-ID: <735973.50775.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up to spec". Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the beard", or some such) Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get done There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. Possibilities include: * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy * FreeNAS * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" * {your idea here} Just a reminder again to all: There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but keep that on the hush-hush) cheers - Jaco From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:20:07 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 2 14:20:13 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <735973.50775.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <735973.50775.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up to spec". > Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the beard", or some such) > > Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get done > > There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. > Possibilities include: > * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy > * FreeNAS > * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu > * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" > * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" > * {your idea here} > > Just a reminder again to all: > There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. > Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but keep that on the hush-hush) > > cheers > > - Jaco Just to elaborate on this a little more: It's been noted lately that the AuckLUG meetings tend to suffer from experience. I.e. new users are intimidated by meetings because they have absolutely no idea what's going on. So as well as meetings I thought it might be a good idea to offer workshops. In otherwords, if we manage to organise a venue, we'd be asking participants to either bring a machine with them which they don't mind wiping the hard drive (depending on the type of workshop of course), and doing a step by step tutorial on any given subject matter. Of course this wouldn't be entirely necessary as you could always watch and take notes but it would help. We could always do something with virtual machines here. E.g. provide a vm in qemu which could be run on a Linux desktop making it non-destructive. So this would be things like having a play with tv tuners or playing around with asterisk etc. The descriptions would have to be understandable so instead of saying "squid" for example we'd describe it as "internet caching" and perhaps put a level indicator on the workshops so whether the workshop is intended for beginner, intermediate or advanced users. In addition to this I thought it might also be a good idea to talk about things like document processing (lyx) or any number of less technical subjects which may make life just that little bit easier. So as part of organising this we'd be asking for volunteers to come up with and take workshops. What does everyone think? From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 18:15:37 2008 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Tue Dec 2 18:15:49 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: References: <735973.50775.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920812012115l6946287eob1f7b1f6ff82182a@mail.gmail.com> Hi Nevyn, Clap, clap. I'm sure all of us Newbies hope you get a good response. Kevin 2008/12/2 Nevyn > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Jaco van der Merwe > wrote: > > A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up > to spec". > > Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to > put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the > beard", or some such) > > > > Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though > turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's > understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get > done > > > > There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest > sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. > > Possibilities include: > > * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy > > * FreeNAS > > * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu > > * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" > > * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" > > * {your idea here} > > > > Just a reminder again to all: > > There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. > > Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but > keep that on the hush-hush) > > > > cheers > > > > - Jaco > > Just to elaborate on this a little more: > It's been noted lately that the AuckLUG meetings tend to suffer from > experience. I.e. new users are intimidated by meetings because they > have absolutely no idea what's going on. > > So as well as meetings I thought it might be a good idea to offer > workshops. In otherwords, if we manage to organise a venue, we'd be > asking participants to either bring a machine with them which they > don't mind wiping the hard drive (depending on the type of workshop of > course), and doing a step by step tutorial on any given subject > matter. Of course this wouldn't be entirely necessary as you could > always watch and take notes but it would help. > > We could always do something with virtual machines here. E.g. provide > a vm in qemu which could be run on a Linux desktop making it > non-destructive. > > So this would be things like having a play with tv tuners or playing > around with asterisk etc. The descriptions would have to be > understandable so instead of saying "squid" for example we'd describe > it as "internet caching" and perhaps put a level indicator on the > workshops so whether the workshop is intended for beginner, > intermediate or advanced users. > > In addition to this I thought it might also be a good idea to talk > about things like document processing (lyx) or any number of less > technical subjects which may make life just that little bit easier. > > So as part of organising this we'd be asking for volunteers to come up > with and take workshops. > > What does everyone think? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From blakjak at blakjak.net Tue Dec 2 21:03:06 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Tue Dec 2 21:03:14 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <5b6001920812012115l6946287eob1f7b1f6ff82182a@mail.gmail.com> References: <735973.50775.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5b6001920812012115l6946287eob1f7b1f6ff82182a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Kevin Adams wrote: > Hi Nevyn, > > Clap, clap. I'm sure all of us Newbies hope you get a good response. > > Kevin > Kevin and others - I thought LUG meetings were also workshops - at least some of the time. We were all newbs once. I still remember my first few LUG meetings... I do think that a 'workshop' along the lines of an installfest should definately be an upcoming meeting... New guys: Don't be shy!! We've all been there. If you have ideas on what you'd like to see the LUG do, speak up. People should definately feel free to leverage the group's knowledge, pick our brains as it were - be it via email or in person at a meeting. That's what theyre for... Mark. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 3 12:29:51 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 3 12:30:19 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 Message-ID: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi guys, The idea of the wharf meeting (for lack of better term, like unAuckLUG, cause that's not quite accurate) is to cater for the newbies, but also trying to draw the pro's out to aide (we'll probably end up paying speakers in beer). But it definitely seems that there a workshop/install-fest on the cards. We're looking for: * Date * Sponsors (venue, power, parking, pizza, beers, intertubes connection, old expendable stock, etc) * Experts, presenters, leaders (to be paid in pizza & beer?) * Content; there are a couple of ideas floating about: ** Media Wiki ** Security Devices (see other points I've made before) ** Media boxes (MythBuntu, TorrentFlux, etc, etc) ** VM's (Qemu, Xen, KVM, VirtualBox, etc) ** Bring your machine to scratch it or fix a problem; scratch that vista & load Ubuntu ** whatever you guys want to do (games?) I'll keep consulting the list for info & post an item on FB to keep thoughts together & open. (the FB page/events will reflect the list, not the other way round) I think the starting point should be a date in Dec(?) that we can focus on, & move forward from there & add on content we want to cover Will report back later on recent gatherings... - Jaco ----- Original Message ---- From: "aucklug-request@linux.net.nz" To: aucklug@linux.net.nz Sent: Wednesday, 3 December, 2008 12:01:36 Subject: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 Send AuckLUG mailing list submissions to aucklug@linux.net.nz To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aucklug-request@linux.net.nz You can reach the person managing the list at aucklug-owner@linux.net.nz When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of AuckLUG digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2.0 (Jaco van der Merwe) 2. Re: Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. (Nevyn) 3. Re: Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. (Kevin Adams) 4. Re: Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. (Mark Foster) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:16:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Jaco van der Merwe Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2.0 To: aucklug@linux.net.nz Message-ID: <735973.50775.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up to spec". Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the beard", or some such) Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get done There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. Possibilities include: * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy * FreeNAS * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" * {your idea here} Just a reminder again to all: There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but keep that on the hush-hush) cheers - Jaco ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:20:07 +1300 From: Nevyn Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up to spec". > Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the beard", or some such) > > Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get done > > There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. > Possibilities include: > * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy > * FreeNAS > * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu > * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" > * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" > * {your idea here} > > Just a reminder again to all: > There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. > Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but keep that on the hush-hush) > > cheers > > - Jaco Just to elaborate on this a little more: It's been noted lately that the AuckLUG meetings tend to suffer from experience. I.e. new users are intimidated by meetings because they have absolutely no idea what's going on. So as well as meetings I thought it might be a good idea to offer workshops. In otherwords, if we manage to organise a venue, we'd be asking participants to either bring a machine with them which they don't mind wiping the hard drive (depending on the type of workshop of course), and doing a step by step tutorial on any given subject matter. Of course this wouldn't be entirely necessary as you could always watch and take notes but it would help. We could always do something with virtual machines here. E.g. provide a vm in qemu which could be run on a Linux desktop making it non-destructive. So this would be things like having a play with tv tuners or playing around with asterisk etc. The descriptions would have to be understandable so instead of saying "squid" for example we'd describe it as "internet caching" and perhaps put a level indicator on the workshops so whether the workshop is intended for beginner, intermediate or advanced users. In addition to this I thought it might also be a good idea to talk about things like document processing (lyx) or any number of less technical subjects which may make life just that little bit easier. So as part of organising this we'd be asking for volunteers to come up with and take workshops. What does everyone think? ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:15:37 +1300 From: "Kevin Adams" Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Message-ID: <5b6001920812012115l6946287eob1f7b1f6ff82182a@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Nevyn, Clap, clap. I'm sure all of us Newbies hope you get a good response. Kevin 2008/12/2 Nevyn > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Jaco van der Merwe > wrote: > > A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up > to spec". > > Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to > put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the > beard", or some such) > > > > Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though > turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's > understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get > done > > > > There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest > sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. > > Possibilities include: > > * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy > > * FreeNAS > > * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu > > * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" > > * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" > > * {your idea here} > > > > Just a reminder again to all: > > There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. > > Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but > keep that on the hush-hush) > > > > cheers > > > > - Jaco > > Just to elaborate on this a little more: > It's been noted lately that the AuckLUG meetings tend to suffer from > experience. I.e. new users are intimidated by meetings because they > have absolutely no idea what's going on. > > So as well as meetings I thought it might be a good idea to offer > workshops. In otherwords, if we manage to organise a venue, we'd be > asking participants to either bring a machine with them which they > don't mind wiping the hard drive (depending on the type of workshop of > course), and doing a step by step tutorial on any given subject > matter. Of course this wouldn't be entirely necessary as you could > always watch and take notes but it would help. > > We could always do something with virtual machines here. E.g. provide > a vm in qemu which could be run on a Linux desktop making it > non-destructive. > > So this would be things like having a play with tv tuners or playing > around with asterisk etc. The descriptions would have to be > understandable so instead of saying "squid" for example we'd describe > it as "internet caching" and perhaps put a level indicator on the > workshops so whether the workshop is intended for beginner, > intermediate or advanced users. > > In addition to this I thought it might also be a good idea to talk > about things like document processing (lyx) or any number of less > technical subjects which may make life just that little bit easier. > > So as part of organising this we'd be asking for volunteers to come up > with and take workshops. > > What does everyone think? > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 21:03:06 +1300 (NZDT) From: Mark Foster Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Kevin Adams wrote: > Hi Nevyn, > > Clap, clap. I'm sure all of us Newbies hope you get a good response. > > Kevin > Kevin and others - I thought LUG meetings were also workshops - at least some of the time. We were all newbs once. I still remember my first few LUG meetings... I do think that a 'workshop' along the lines of an installfest should definately be an upcoming meeting... New guys: Don't be shy!! We've all been there. If you have ideas on what you'd like to see the LUG do, speak up. People should definately feel free to leverage the group's knowledge, pick our brains as it were - be it via email or in person at a meeting. That's what theyre for... Mark. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug End of AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 ************************************** From unclerichard at xtra.co.nz Wed Dec 3 14:50:51 2008 From: unclerichard at xtra.co.nz (R Innes) Date: Wed Dec 3 14:51:02 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> Linux Folk: While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I would like to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express interest in it. I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized by the various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, and a possible market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, this would cover the school's expenses in advertising and other overheads. The workshop could be divided into two sections; the first a demonstration of three or four Linux Distros in action (morning session), and the second two or three actual installs which people can watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady stream of people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs to get young computer users involved and since shool-aged students can attend these classes free. Over time it may prove a better long term approach. I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim for early in the new year. I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual boot) and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though I am happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would further the cause of free software. Richard I. From brianmooney57 at yahoo.co.nz Wed Dec 3 15:27:06 2008 From: brianmooney57 at yahoo.co.nz (brian mooney) Date: Wed Dec 3 15:27:14 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <849553.46506.qm@web30502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Man this is the best idea I seen from you guy's,lol. I first came across linux over 10 years ago and these instalafests have been going for ages but you guys havnt reached critical mass yet,smile. You guys have to start young like the old apples for schools program. Ive seen Linux expand in the corporate frield not no so the home user shit they havent even heard of it,lol. You need to market it as cheap but strong and not suceptable to viruses and other nasties. Have a good day ladies and gentlemen. Brian Mooney --- On Wed, 3/12/08, R Innes wrote: From: R Innes Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Received: Wednesday, 3 December, 2008, 2:50 PM Linux Folk: While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I would like to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express interest in it. I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized by the various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, and a possible market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, this would cover the school's expenses in advertising and other overheads. The workshop could be divided into two sections; the first a demonstration of three or four Linux Distros in action (morning session), and the second two or three actual installs which people can watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady stream of people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs to get young computer users involved and since shool-aged students can attend these classes free. Over time it may prove a better long term approach. I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim for early in the new year. I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual boot) and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though I am happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would further the cause of free software. Richard I. _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug Get the world's best email - http://nz.mail.yahoo.com/ From nevynh at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 15:44:47 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Wed Dec 3 15:44:57 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: <849553.46506.qm@web30502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> <849553.46506.qm@web30502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There are loads of issues to overcome here. Firstly, participation. It's always been a bit of an issue where discussions on this sort of subject end up in a squabble about small things such as which distributions are going to be shown or venue etc which has resulted in little or no participation. So the second point - communication. I don't see anything happening around this till around mid-January at the earliest and would estimate around a month of planning and organising so we're probably looking at around mid-February (in which case I won't be able to participate in a huge way myself - I'm off to Dunedin for a few weeks for work). Something to think about for the new year if we have enough people interested. Regards, Nevyn. On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:27 PM, brian mooney wrote: > Man this is the best idea I seen from you guy's,lol. > I first came across linux over 10 years ago and these instalafests have been going for ages but you guys havnt reached critical mass yet,smile. > You guys have to start young like the old apples for schools program. > Ive seen Linux expand in the corporate frield not no so the home user shit they havent even heard of it,lol. > You need to market it as cheap but strong and not suceptable to viruses and other nasties. > Have a good day ladies and gentlemen. > Brian Mooney > > --- On Wed, 3/12/08, R Innes wrote: > > From: R Innes > Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest > To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" > Received: Wednesday, 3 December, 2008, 2:50 PM > > Linux Folk: > > While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I would like > to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. > > The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express > interest in it. > > I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized by the > various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, and a possible > market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, this would cover the > school's expenses in advertising and other overheads. The workshop could be > divided into two sections; the first a demonstration of three or four Linux > Distros in action (morning session), and the second two or three actual installs > which people can watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. > > Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady stream of > people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs to get young > computer users involved and since shool-aged students can attend these classes > free. Over time it may prove a better long term approach. > > I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim for > early in the new year. > > I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual boot) > and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. > > I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though I am > happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. > > If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm > talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would further the > cause of free software. > > Richard I. > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > Get the world's best email - http://nz.mail.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 3 16:15:00 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:16:06 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Workshop/Installfest Message-ID: <20839.82305.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Sweet! So I think everybody's on-board for the workshop/install-fest. I can see why Dec may be a bit late in the hour, but many folks (& school-kids) may have the time to participate. I don't think leaving it for any later than Jan is a good idea, as enthusiasm may taper out. As it is, folks are pretty tight-fisted after the new year. I think the schools are an absolutely fantastic idea, for many reasons. We may even alternate them, so as to raise visibility & widen participation. I would suggest schools on "the Loop" network, as this eventually provides accessibility of repositories to ALL schools on the network. This is also the market we're trying to reach with next year's SoftwareFreedomDay (we've started planning & drawing potential sponsors), so these install-fests could be seen as dry-runs. I would suggest, based on discussions with folks, that set 3-month (quarterly) events may be the way to go: gives us enough time to plan & get our ducks in a row, but not so frequent as to overextend ourselves or discourage participation by those in the know. Supposed to be fun, not work. Obviously, holding install-fests at schools may be problematic for the beer-consumption, but I'm sure we'll manage. So, if we can decide on a date some time (hopefully) in Dec, otherwise early-Jan, we can pen it in & move on to the next step: venue, content (sponsors?) (is anybody actually picking up on these none-too-subtle-hints for sponsors?) I propose possible dates to be accepted or rejected: (assuming install-fest on a Sat) 20 Dec or 27 Dec From tobias.gerschner at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 16:22:14 2008 From: tobias.gerschner at gmail.com (Tobias Gerschner) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:22:23 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest Message-ID: Hi, The former NOVELL office - boardroom ( 39 Market Place ) is generally available again for LUG meetings and installfests. I just can not guarantee availability months in advance like it used to be. However - for the purpose of an installfest I will make the venue available if that is of any help. We had several university installfests there with great response. Small distance to carry your gear into the facilities ;) . There's plenty of room and unrestricted connectivity available. So if you settle on a date , I will try to make this happen. Best days are usually Sundays to not conflict with other business events and also the parking is free on Sunday in CBD. Also if there's no full time replacement for a AUCKLUG venue I try to make the board room in our office for these available if there is an agenda for the LUG meeting beyond 'drinks and nibbles' ;) . regards -- Tobias Gerschner Yoper Linux - www.yoper.com Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. 2008/12/3 : > Send AuckLUG mailing list submissions to > aucklug@linux.net.nz > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > aucklug-request@linux.net.nz > > You can reach the person managing the list at > aucklug-owner@linux.net.nz > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AuckLUG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 (Jaco van der Merwe) > 2. Re: Proposed Install Fest (R Innes) > 3. Re: Re: Proposed Install Fest (brian mooney) > 4. Re: Re: Proposed Install Fest (Nevyn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 23:29:51 +0000 (GMT) > From: Jaco van der Merwe > Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Message-ID: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi guys, > > The idea of the wharf meeting (for lack of better term, like unAuckLUG, cause that's not quite accurate) is to cater for the newbies, but also trying to draw the pro's out to aide (we'll probably end up paying speakers in beer). > > But it definitely seems that there a workshop/install-fest on the cards. > We're looking for: > * Date > * Sponsors (venue, power, parking, pizza, beers, intertubes connection, old expendable stock, etc) > * Experts, presenters, leaders (to be paid in pizza & beer?) > * Content; there are a couple of ideas floating about: > ** Media Wiki > ** Security Devices (see other points I've made before) > ** Media boxes (MythBuntu, TorrentFlux, etc, etc) > ** VM's (Qemu, Xen, KVM, VirtualBox, etc) > ** Bring your machine to scratch it or fix a problem; scratch that vista & load Ubuntu > ** whatever you guys want to do (games?) > > I'll keep consulting the list for info & post an item on FB to keep thoughts together & open. (the FB page/events will reflect the list, not the other way round) > > I think the starting point should be a date in Dec(?) that we can focus on, & move forward from there & add on content we want to cover > > Will report back later on recent gatherings... > > - Jaco > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "aucklug-request@linux.net.nz" > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Sent: Wednesday, 3 December, 2008 12:01:36 > Subject: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 > > Send AuckLUG mailing list submissions to > aucklug@linux.net.nz > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > aucklug-request@linux.net.nz > > You can reach the person managing the list at > aucklug-owner@linux.net.nz > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AuckLUG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2.0 (Jaco van der Merwe) > 2. Re: Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. (Nevyn) > 3. Re: Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. (Kevin Adams) > 4. Re: Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. (Mark Foster) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:16:07 +0000 (GMT) > From: Jaco van der Merwe > Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2.0 > To: aucklug@linux.net.nz > Message-ID: <735973.50775.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up to spec". > Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the beard", or some such) > > Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get done > > There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. > Possibilities include: > * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy > * FreeNAS > * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu > * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" > * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" > * {your idea here} > > Just a reminder again to all: > There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. > Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but keep that on the hush-hush) > > cheers > > - Jaco > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:20:07 +1300 > From: Nevyn > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. > To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Jaco van der Merwe > wrote: >> A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up to spec". >> Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the beard", or some such) >> >> Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get done >> >> There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. >> Possibilities include: >> * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy >> * FreeNAS >> * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu >> * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" >> * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" >> * {your idea here} >> >> Just a reminder again to all: >> There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. >> Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but keep that on the hush-hush) >> >> cheers >> >> - Jaco > > Just to elaborate on this a little more: > It's been noted lately that the AuckLUG meetings tend to suffer from > experience. I.e. new users are intimidated by meetings because they > have absolutely no idea what's going on. > > So as well as meetings I thought it might be a good idea to offer > workshops. In otherwords, if we manage to organise a venue, we'd be > asking participants to either bring a machine with them which they > don't mind wiping the hard drive (depending on the type of workshop of > course), and doing a step by step tutorial on any given subject > matter. Of course this wouldn't be entirely necessary as you could > always watch and take notes but it would help. > > We could always do something with virtual machines here. E.g. provide > a vm in qemu which could be run on a Linux desktop making it > non-destructive. > > So this would be things like having a play with tv tuners or playing > around with asterisk etc. The descriptions would have to be > understandable so instead of saying "squid" for example we'd describe > it as "internet caching" and perhaps put a level indicator on the > workshops so whether the workshop is intended for beginner, > intermediate or advanced users. > > In addition to this I thought it might also be a good idea to talk > about things like document processing (lyx) or any number of less > technical subjects which may make life just that little bit easier. > > So as part of organising this we'd be asking for volunteers to come up > with and take workshops. > > What does everyone think? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:15:37 +1300 > From: "Kevin Adams" > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. > To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" > Message-ID: > <5b6001920812012115l6946287eob1f7b1f6ff82182a@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Nevyn, > > Clap, clap. I'm sure all of us Newbies hope you get a good response. > > Kevin > > 2008/12/2 Nevyn > >> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Jaco van der Merwe >> wrote: >> > A big shout out "Thanks" for Mark for his work on getting the FB page "up >> to spec". >> > Glad to see many members have opted to join the cause (helps me a lot to >> put names to faces & not having to refer to blokes as "that guy with the >> beard", or some such) >> > >> > Also, thanks to Martin for putting the Voda venue effort together, though >> turnout was a bit muted, but the notice was a bit late, so it's >> understandable. At least it gave us some idea of what the group wants to get >> done >> > >> > There's seems to be a desire all-round for a workshop/install-fest >> sometime soon, so ideas & resquests welcome. >> > Possibilities include: >> > * security device: m0n0wall, IPCop, TOR/privoxy >> > * FreeNAS >> > * Media-server/PVR/MythBuntu >> > * "pls fix my machine"/"what does this 'general error' mean?" >> > * "I've had quite enough of this vista bollox; I'm switching to Ubuntu" >> > * {your idea here} >> > >> > Just a reminder again to all: >> > There's another get-together tonight at the Devonport/WharfIT venue. >> > Presentation of OOo.3 afoot (and *possibly* a look&see of an OLPC, but >> keep that on the hush-hush) >> > >> > cheers >> > >> > - Jaco >> >> Just to elaborate on this a little more: >> It's been noted lately that the AuckLUG meetings tend to suffer from >> experience. I.e. new users are intimidated by meetings because they >> have absolutely no idea what's going on. >> >> So as well as meetings I thought it might be a good idea to offer >> workshops. In otherwords, if we manage to organise a venue, we'd be >> asking participants to either bring a machine with them which they >> don't mind wiping the hard drive (depending on the type of workshop of >> course), and doing a step by step tutorial on any given subject >> matter. Of course this wouldn't be entirely necessary as you could >> always watch and take notes but it would help. >> >> We could always do something with virtual machines here. E.g. provide >> a vm in qemu which could be run on a Linux desktop making it >> non-destructive. >> >> So this would be things like having a play with tv tuners or playing >> around with asterisk etc. The descriptions would have to be >> understandable so instead of saying "squid" for example we'd describe >> it as "internet caching" and perhaps put a level indicator on the >> workshops so whether the workshop is intended for beginner, >> intermediate or advanced users. >> >> In addition to this I thought it might also be a good idea to talk >> about things like document processing (lyx) or any number of less >> technical subjects which may make life just that little bit easier. >> >> So as part of organising this we'd be asking for volunteers to come up >> with and take workshops. >> >> What does everyone think? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 21:03:06 +1300 (NZDT) > From: Mark Foster > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > > On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Kevin Adams wrote: > >> Hi Nevyn, >> >> Clap, clap. I'm sure all of us Newbies hope you get a good response. >> >> Kevin >> > > Kevin and others - > I thought LUG meetings were also workshops - at least some of the time. > We were all newbs once. > I still remember my first few LUG meetings... > > I do think that a 'workshop' along the lines of an installfest should > definately be an upcoming meeting... > > > New guys: Don't be shy!! We've all been there. If you have ideas on what > you'd like to see the LUG do, speak up. People should definately feel > free to leverage the group's knowledge, pick our brains as it were - be it > via email or in person at a meeting. That's what theyre for... > > Mark. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > End of AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 > ************************************** > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:50:51 +1300 > From: R Innes > Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Linux Folk: > > While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I > would like to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. > > The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express > interest in it. > > I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized > by the various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, > and a possible market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, > this would cover the school's expenses in advertising and other > overheads. The workshop could be divided into two sections; the first a > demonstration of three or four Linux Distros in action (morning > session), and the second two or three actual installs which people can > watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. > > Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady > stream of people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs > to get young computer users involved and since shool-aged students can > attend these classes free. Over time it may prove a better long term > approach. > > I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim > for early in the new year. > > I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual > boot) and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. > > I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though > I am happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. > > If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm > talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would > further the cause of free software. > > Richard I. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:27:06 -0800 (PST) > From: brian mooney > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest > To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list > Message-ID: <849553.46506.qm@web30502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Man this is the best idea I seen from you guy's,lol. > I first came across linux over 10 years ago and these instalafests have been going for ages but you guys havnt reached critical mass yet,smile. > You guys have to start young like the old apples for schools program. > Ive seen Linux expand in the corporate frield not no so the home user shit they havent even heard of it,lol. > You need to market it as cheap but strong and not suceptable to viruses and other nasties. > Have a good day ladies and gentlemen. > Brian Mooney > > --- On Wed, 3/12/08, R Innes wrote: > > From: R Innes > Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest > To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" > Received: Wednesday, 3 December, 2008, 2:50 PM > > Linux Folk: > > While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I would like > to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. > > The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express > interest in it. > > I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized by the > various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, and a possible > market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, this would cover the > school's expenses in advertising and other overheads. The workshop could be > divided into two sections; the first a demonstration of three or four Linux > Distros in action (morning session), and the second two or three actual installs > which people can watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. > > Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady stream of > people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs to get young > computer users involved and since shool-aged students can attend these classes > free. Over time it may prove a better long term approach. > > I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim for > early in the new year. > > I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual boot) > and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. > > I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though I am > happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. > > If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm > talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would further the > cause of free software. > > Richard I. > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > > Get the world's best email - http://nz.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:44:47 +1300 > From: Nevyn > Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest > To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > There are loads of issues to overcome here. > > Firstly, participation. It's always been a bit of an issue where > discussions on this sort of subject end up in a squabble about small > things such as which distributions are going to be shown or venue etc > which has resulted in little or no participation. > > So the second point - communication. > > I don't see anything happening around this till around mid-January at > the earliest and would estimate around a month of planning and > organising so we're probably looking at around mid-February (in which > case I won't be able to participate in a huge way myself - I'm off to > Dunedin for a few weeks for work). Something to think about for the > new year if we have enough people interested. > > Regards, > Nevyn. > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:27 PM, brian mooney wrote: >> Man this is the best idea I seen from you guy's,lol. >> I first came across linux over 10 years ago and these instalafests have been going for ages but you guys havnt reached critical mass yet,smile. >> You guys have to start young like the old apples for schools program. >> Ive seen Linux expand in the corporate frield not no so the home user shit they havent even heard of it,lol. >> You need to market it as cheap but strong and not suceptable to viruses and other nasties. >> Have a good day ladies and gentlemen. >> Brian Mooney >> >> --- On Wed, 3/12/08, R Innes wrote: >> >> From: R Innes >> Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest >> To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" >> Received: Wednesday, 3 December, 2008, 2:50 PM >> >> Linux Folk: >> >> While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I would like >> to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. >> >> The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express >> interest in it. >> >> I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized by the >> various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, and a possible >> market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, this would cover the >> school's expenses in advertising and other overheads. The workshop could be >> divided into two sections; the first a demonstration of three or four Linux >> Distros in action (morning session), and the second two or three actual installs >> which people can watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. >> >> Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady stream of >> people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs to get young >> computer users involved and since shool-aged students can attend these classes >> free. Over time it may prove a better long term approach. >> >> I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim for >> early in the new year. >> >> I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual boot) >> and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. >> >> I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though I am >> happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. >> >> If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm >> talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would further the >> cause of free software. >> >> Richard I. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> >> >> >> Get the world's best email - http://nz.mail.yahoo.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> AuckLUG mailing list >> AuckLUG@linux.net.nz >> http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > End of AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 4 > ************************************** > From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 16:24:44 2008 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:24:52 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> References: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <5b6001920812021924g626b983dre19fb844ad0e6b1c@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, This appears to be on the right track. An application-fest with an install-fest as a sideshow, the home user must be the target. Keep thinking folks. Kevin 2008/12/3 R Innes > Linux Folk: > > While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I would > like to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. > > The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express > interest in it. > > I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized by > the various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, and a > possible market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, this would > cover the school's expenses in advertising and other overheads. The workshop > could be divided into two sections; the first a demonstration of three or > four Linux Distros in action (morning session), and the second two or three > actual installs which people can watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to > install. > > Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady stream > of people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs to get > young computer users involved and since shool-aged students can attend these > classes free. Over time it may prove a better long term approach. > > I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim for > early in the new year. > > I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual > boot) and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. > > I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though I > am happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. > > If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm > talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would further > the cause of free software. > > Richard I. > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From Martin.Kealey at vodafone.com Wed Dec 3 14:07:34 2008 From: Martin.Kealey at vodafone.com (Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:31:57 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. I'd like to alternate the meetings between two locations. Tentatively I propose that location "A" will be Vodafone's "V.nue" building on Viaduct Harbour Avenue, and location "B" will be either Wharf-IT or Auckland University; feedback on this would be appreciated. Monday 2nd February 2009 venue: A topic: TBA Monday 2nd March 2009 venue: B topic: TBA Monday 6th April 2009 venue: A topic: TBA Monday 4th May 2009 venue: B topic: TBA Monday 8th June 2009 (1st of June is Queen's Birthday) venue: A (can't be Uni - exams) topic: TBA Monday 6th July 2009 venue: B topic: TBA Monday 3rd August 2009 venue: A topic: TBA Monday 7th September 2009 venue: B topic: TBA Monday 6th October 2009 venue: A topic: TBA Monday 2nd November 2009 venue: B (but not Uni - exams) topic: TBA Monday 7th December 2009 venue: TBA (probably "V.nue", but in any case not Uni - semester break) topic: TBA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you seen our website?.... http://www.vodafone.co.nz Manage Your Account, check your Vodafone Mail and send web2TXT online: http://www.vodafone.co.nz/myvodafone CAUTION: This correspondence is confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the named recipient and receive this correspondence in error, you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it and you should delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. Unless otherwise stated, any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent those of Vodafone New Zealand Limited. Vodafone New Zealand Limited 20 Viaduct Harbour Avenue, Private Bag 92161, Auckland 1030 Telephone + 64 9 355 2000 Facsimile + 64 9 355 2001 From graham at theingots.org.nz Wed Dec 3 16:30:34 2008 From: graham at theingots.org.nz (Graham Lauder) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:31:58 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> References: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <1228275034.16371.41.camel@linux-rzf3.site> On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:50 +1300, R Innes wrote: > Linux Folk: > > While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I > would like to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. > > The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express > interest in it. > > I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized > by the various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, > and a possible market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, > this would cover the school's expenses in advertising and other > overheads. The workshop could be divided into two sections; the first a > demonstration of three or four Linux Distros in action (morning > session), and the second two or three actual installs which people can > watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. > > Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady > stream of people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs > to get young computer users involved and since shool-aged students can > attend these classes free. Over time it may prove a better long term > approach. > > I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim > for early in the new year. > > I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual > boot) and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. > > I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though > I am happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. > > If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm > talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would > further the cause of free software. > > Richard I. Good idea and also I'll add to that. Some schools offer Night classes. These are usually ACE (Adult Community Education) funded. Find the schools about the place that have ACE programmes, track down the ACE coordinator and offer a programme. There is a Gotcha. Most of the programmes are run in Schools that run Windows or Netware and the techies often don't like letting anyone screwing with their systems. However find a school that uses thin clients with a reasonable tech staff, and with them figure out a way to hook an LTSP server into the system. This gives people the opportunity to learn stuff about linux before they commit to it on their own machines. (I can loan an OpenSuSE LTSP server for something like that, but any reasonable machine can do the job with a decent amount of ram. A laptop fer instance.) Much better than bloody live discs which only serve to give newbies the opportunity to complain about how slow "Linux" is. The upside is that ACE will pay tutor hours for an approved course. Ergo: paid person can buy the beer! :) I offer GIMP, Inkscape and OpenOffice courses and they don't even know that it's all running on OpenSuSE rather than windows so you push Word Processing/Spreadsheets/PhotoEditing on Linux rather than JUST "Using linux", installs then come as a result of that. ACE can work with one-offs and continuing programmes, depending on the coordinator. Too late now for this year, but target the beginning of T1 09 and I think you'd be in with a chance. Cheers GL -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Assessor Trainer (International Grades in Office Technologies) www.theingots.org Open Opportunities ltd. Open Technologies Training and Migration Consultants http://www.openopportunities.co.nz http://openoffice.org http://www.opensuse.org OOoGear: For the Well dressed OOo Advocate http://ooogear.co.nz From yorick_ at openoffice.org Wed Dec 3 16:33:28 2008 From: yorick_ at openoffice.org (Graham lauder) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:33:49 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> References: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <1228275208.16371.42.camel@linux-rzf3.site> Scuse if this appears twice! On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:50 +1300, R Innes wrote: > Linux Folk: > > While I am not opposed to the ideas put forward by Jaco van Merwe I > would like to poke my oar in here and make some counter proposals. > > The idea of an install-fest is to introduce Linux to people who express > interest in it. > > I think a better approach would be through the night-classes organized > by the various schools. This would give us a structure to work around, > and a possible market. I suggest we charge $15 for a Saturday workshop, > this would cover the school's expenses in advertising and other > overheads. The workshop could be divided into two sections; the first a > demonstration of three or four Linux Distros in action (morning > session), and the second two or three actual installs which people can > watch and learn our (easy) Linux is to install. > > Most secondary schools have good computer departments and a steady > stream of people participating in their classes. Linux to succeed, needs > to get young computer users involved and since shool-aged students can > attend these classes free. Over time it may prove a better long term > approach. > > I think a December date is over optimistic, let's be realistic and aim > for early in the new year. > > I have installed a variety of Linux distros on my machines (mainly dual > boot) and regularly (as Telecom allows) new editions. > > I would imagine though most of the installs would be on laptops, though > I am happy to make house calls for installations on desktops. > > If we can get a tie in with thrre or four of the major high school - I'm > talking specifically North Shore - I think such an approach would > further the cause of free software. > > Richard I. Good idea and also I'll add to that. Some schools offer Night classes. These are usually ACE (Adult Community Education) funded. Find the schools about the place that have ACE programmes, track down the ACE coordinator and offer a programme. There is a Gotcha. Most of the programmes are run in Schools that run Windows or Netware and the techies often don't like letting anyone screwing with their systems. However find a school that uses thin clients with a reasonable tech staff, and with them figure out a way to hook an LTSP server into the system. This gives people the opportunity to learn stuff about linux before they commit to it on their own machines. (I can loan an OpenSuSE LTSP server for something like that, but any reasonable machine can do the job with a decent amount of ram. A laptop fer instance.) Much better than bloody live discs which only serve to give newbies the opportunity to complain about how slow "Linux" is. The upside is that ACE will pay tutor hours for an approved course. Ergo: paid person can buy the beer! :) I offer GIMP, Inkscape and OpenOffice courses and they don't even know that it's all running on OpenSuSE rather than windows so you push Word Processing/Spreadsheets/PhotoEditing on Linux rather than JUST "Using linux", installs then come as a result of that. ACE can work with one-offs and continuing programmes, depending on the coordinator. Too late now for this year, but target the beginning of T1 09 and I think you'd be in with a chance. Cheers GL -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html INGOTs Assessor Trainer (International Grades in Office Technologies) www.theingots.org Open Opportunities ltd. Open Technologies Training and Migration Consultants http://www.openopportunities.co.nz http://openoffice.org http://www.opensuse.org OOoGear: For the Well dressed OOo Advocate http://ooogear.co.nz From blakjak at blakjak.net Wed Dec 3 16:34:06 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:34:23 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Admin: Reminder that the list is subscriber-only. Message-ID: <24883.119.15.0.26.1228275246.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> As above. The only people who can post to this list are current subscribers. Resultantly, PLEASE POST USING YOUR SUBSCRIBED ADDRESS. Contributions sent from email addresses that are not subscribed to this list get held in a queue and are usually trashed as spam. If you wish to subscribe additional addresses in order to post from them, go through the usual subscribe process; you can turn off mail delivery for any given email address through the web interface (which by default means you'll have posting rights but not receive list traffic to that address). Cheers Mark. From g.kloss at massey.ac.nz Wed Dec 3 16:53:56 2008 From: g.kloss at massey.ac.nz (Guy K. Kloss) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:54:00 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: <1228275034.16371.41.camel@linux-rzf3.site> References: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4935E5FB.1040803@xtra.co.nz> <1228275034.16371.41.camel@linux-rzf3.site> Message-ID: <200812031653.57146.g.kloss@massey.ac.nz> On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:30:34 Graham Lauder wrote: > There is a Gotcha. ?Most of the programmes are run in Schools that run > Windows or Netware and the techies often don't like letting anyone > screwing with their systems. ?However find a school that uses thin > clients with a reasonable tech staff, and with them figure out a way to > hook an LTSP server into the system. Wasn't there some school on the Shore, I believe in Albany with a strong Linux devotion? Maybe Kristin School, or was it the planned new high school in Albany? Maybe someone knows. And if they should be like that, I suppose that type of event may go down well with their approach to IT ethics anyway ... Guy -- Guy K. Kloss Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences Te Kura P?taiao o M?hiohio me P?ngarau Room 2.63, Quad Block A Building Massey University, Auckland, Albany Private Bag 102 904, North Shore Mail Centre voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585 fax: +64 9 441-8181 eMail: G.Kloss@massey.ac.nz http://iims.massey.ac.nz From blakjak at blakjak.net Wed Dec 3 17:08:42 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Wed Dec 3 17:08:49 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Workshop/Installfest In-Reply-To: <20839.82305.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20839.82305.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <27735.119.15.0.26.1228277322.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Re Schools and any attempt to run a programmed schema, there's a lot of work in this. My Amateur Radio Club recently ran night classes through a local college to teach Amateur Radio theory. This was part of their structured 'community education' process with a weekly evening programme covering the major topics. There are costs associated; there's a need to provide sufficient classroom materials to keep the school happy and ensure the students are getting benefit from the time spent. (If you windup down that path). If OTOH you get OK to simply have the school provide a Venue then all well and good... > I would suggest, based on discussions with folks, that set 3-month > (quarterly) events may be the way to go: gives us enough time to plan & > get our ducks in a row, but not so frequent as to overextend ourselves or > discourage participation by those in the know. > Supposed to be fun, not work. Again I discourage trying to set something in stone of this nature. The regular meetings should provide a venue to at least coordinate 'what else goes on', there are likely to be other events which may be supportable in lieu of something else (say a major Installfest, Software Freedom Day, etc etc) and we need to remember that both the attendees and the people likely to run these events are volunteers with lives outside of Linux. The monthly meetings can be anything from a presentation, a workshop, a supper, or any + all of these things. WharfIT's meets provide another useful avenue. Don't overcommitt and under deliver; keep your expectations realistic. Mark. From robin.paulson at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 17:58:37 2008 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Wed Dec 3 17:58:22 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> Message-ID: <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:07 +1300, Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ wrote: > Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. > > I'd like to alternate the meetings between two locations. > > Tentatively I propose that location "A" will be Vodafone's "V.nue" building on Viaduct Harbour Avenue, and location "B" > will be either Wharf-IT or Auckland University; feedback on this would be appreciated. > personally, i'd prefer not to have meetings at v.nue . i don't drive, and getting there from mt eden on the bus is a major pain the university's great though cos it's central, and wharfit's ok too From blakjak at blakjak.net Wed Dec 3 18:40:59 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Wed Dec 3 18:41:14 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> Message-ID: <32099.119.15.0.26.1228282859.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Wed, December 3, 2008 5:58 pm, Robin Paulson wrote: > On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:07 +1300, Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ wrote: >> Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. >> >> I'd like to alternate the meetings between two locations. >> >> Tentatively I propose that location "A" will be Vodafone's "V.nue" >> building on Viaduct Harbour Avenue, and location "B" >> will be either Wharf-IT or Auckland University; feedback on this would >> be appreciated. >> > > personally, i'd prefer not to have meetings at v.nue . i don't drive, > and getting there from mt eden on the bus is a major pain > > the university's great though cos it's central, and wharfit's ok too > > Is it that far to walk from downtown? What about carpooling? What about carpooling from Britomart, even?? If the venue is otherwise suitable (access, facilities) I would personally survive a 15 or 30 minute walk... (Once upon a time I used to catch the train from Manurewa and then walk to Symonds Street for LUG meetings, and catch a ride home with a carpool.) Mark. [PS: Yes, I know it's moot for me now...] From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 19:32:15 2008 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Wed Dec 3 19:32:22 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <32099.119.15.0.26.1228282859.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> <32099.119.15.0.26.1228282859.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Message-ID: <5b6001920812022232tc116d16i1a1800a6bcfa6227@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, In this venue setting - please remember that some of us are disabled (or is it just me) and have no car and can't drive and am on the invalids benefit for the rest of my life so Cabs are out of the question. Kevin 2008/12/3 Mark Foster > On Wed, December 3, 2008 5:58 pm, Robin Paulson wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:07 +1300, Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ wrote: > >> Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. > >> > >> I'd like to alternate the meetings between two locations. > >> > >> Tentatively I propose that location "A" will be Vodafone's "V.nue" > >> building on Viaduct Harbour Avenue, and location "B" > >> will be either Wharf-IT or Auckland University; feedback on this would > >> be appreciated. > >> > > > > personally, i'd prefer not to have meetings at v.nue . i don't drive, > > and getting there from mt eden on the bus is a major pain > > > > the university's great though cos it's central, and wharfit's ok too > > > > > > Is it that far to walk from downtown? > > What about carpooling? > > What about carpooling from Britomart, even?? > > If the venue is otherwise suitable (access, facilities) I would personally > survive a 15 or 30 minute walk... > > (Once upon a time I used to catch the train from Manurewa and then walk to > Symonds Street for LUG meetings, and catch a ride home with a carpool.) > > Mark. > > [PS: Yes, I know it's moot for me now...] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From gareth.fletcher at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 22:00:51 2008 From: gareth.fletcher at gmail.com (Gareth Fletcher) Date: Wed Dec 3 22:01:39 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> Message-ID: Vnue and wharf it/uni sounds good! It's great to have a consistent place to meet. I like the idea of planning in advance. Thanks Martin Cheers Gareth On 3/12/2008, at 2:07 PM, "Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ" wrote: > > Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. > > I'd like to alternate the meetings between two locations. > > Tentatively I propose that location "A" will be Vodafone's "V.nue" > building on Viaduct Harbour Avenue, and location "B" will be either > Wharf-IT or Auckland University; feedback on this would be > appreciated. > > Monday 2nd February 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 2nd March 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 6th April 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 4th May 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 8th June 2009 (1st of June is Queen's Birthday) > venue: A (can't be Uni - exams) > topic: TBA > > Monday 6th July 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 3rd August 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 7th September 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 6th October 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 2nd November 2009 > venue: B (but not Uni - exams) > topic: TBA > > Monday 7th December 2009 > venue: TBA (probably "V.nue", but in any case not Uni - semester > break) > topic: TBA > --- > --- > --- > --- > --- > --- > --- > --- > --- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Have you seen our website?.... http://www.vodafone.co.nz > > Manage Your Account, check your Vodafone Mail and send web2TXT > online: http://www.vodafone.co.nz/myvodafone > > CAUTION: This correspondence is confidential and intended for the > named recipient(s) only. > If you are not the named recipient and receive this correspondence > in error, you must not copy, > distribute or take any action in reliance on it and you should > delete it from your system and > notify the sender immediately. Thank you. > > Unless otherwise stated, any views or opinions expressed are solely > those of the author and do > not represent those of Vodafone New Zealand Limited. > > Vodafone New Zealand Limited > 20 Viaduct Harbour Avenue, Private Bag 92161, Auckland 1030 > Telephone + 64 9 355 2000 > Facsimile + 64 9 355 2001 > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 00:24:41 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 4 00:24:48 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Workshop/Installfest In-Reply-To: <20839.82305.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20839.82305.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > > I can see why Dec may be a bit late in the hour, but many folks (& school-kids) may have the time to participate. > I don't think leaving it for any later than Jan is a good idea, as enthusiasm may taper out. As it is, folks are pretty tight-fisted after the new year. Jaco, although I see where you're coming from, you're doing yourself absolutely no favors whatsoever by trying to rush an event. If you're going to do it, try and do it right the first time around. You don't often get to make first impressions again. This is a sticking point. If participants feel they can't do an adequate job within the timeline you set, they're a lot less likely to participant. In other words, give participants a chance to actually do a job properly. If you want participation, pick times in which people aren't quite so busy. If you're going to do any sort of meetings around this do not by any means decide to change any details about a meeting on the day of the meeting or even a day before the meeting. Set the details a week ahead of time and stick to it to avoid confusing your participants. From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 00:28:03 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 4 00:28:08 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:07 PM, Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ wrote: > > Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. > > I'd like to alternate the meetings between two locations. > > Tentatively I propose that location "A" will be Vodafone's "V.nue" building on Viaduct Harbour Avenue, and location "B" will be either Wharf-IT or Auckland University; feedback on this would be appreciated. > > Monday 2nd February 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 2nd March 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 6th April 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 4th May 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 8th June 2009 (1st of June is Queen's Birthday) > venue: A (can't be Uni - exams) > topic: TBA > > Monday 6th July 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 3rd August 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 7th September 2009 > venue: B > topic: TBA > > Monday 6th October 2009 > venue: A > topic: TBA > > Monday 2nd November 2009 > venue: B (but not Uni - exams) > topic: TBA > > Monday 7th December 2009 > venue: TBA (probably "V.nue", but in any case not Uni - semester break) > topic: TBA > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Have you seen our website?.... http://www.vodafone.co.nz > > Manage Your Account, check your Vodafone Mail and send web2TXT online: http://www.vodafone.co.nz/myvodafone > > CAUTION: This correspondence is confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. > If you are not the named recipient and receive this correspondence in error, you must not copy, > distribute or take any action in reliance on it and you should delete it from your system and > notify the sender immediately. Thank you. > > Unless otherwise stated, any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do > not represent those of Vodafone New Zealand Limited. I'm a bit worried about the 2nd venue. I think we may confuse matters by using WharfIT with the whole "official" "not official" issue although it's probably a good move to look for something over the other side of the bridge. From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Thu Dec 4 01:09:13 2008 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Thu Dec 4 01:09:21 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder & AuckLUG now web 2. In-Reply-To: <5b6001920812022232tc116d16i1a1800a6bcfa6227@mail.gmail.com> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> <32099.119.15.0.26.1228282859.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> <5b6001920812022232tc116d16i1a1800a6bcfa6227@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >> On Wed, December 3, 2008 5:58 pm, Robin Paulson wrote: >>> personally, i'd prefer not to have meetings at v.nue . i don't drive, >>> and getting there from mt eden on the bus is a major pain On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Kevin Adams wrote: > In this venue setting - please remember that some of us are disabled (or is > it just me) and have no car and can't drive and am on the invalids benefit > for the rest of my life so Cabs are out of the question. > 2008/12/3 Mark Foster >> Is it that far to walk from downtown? It's 9 minutes to Britomart -- or 8 minutes during rush hour when all the cars are stationary. :-) >> What about carpooling? >> >> What about carpooling from Britomart, even?? Or catch the North Star bus for $0.50. (This is admittedly not a great improvement getting there it's 3 minutes walk back from the bus-stop 200m along on the other side of Fanshaw St; but it's excellent getting back to Britomart as the bus-stop is right outside.) Or on any other MetroLink bus, ask the driver if they're going to "City Depot" after the end of the run, and if so they can drop you in Halsey St. (Ask me nearer time and I might be able to find a list of probable route-runs.) >> (Once upon a time I used to catch the train from Manurewa and then walk to >> Symonds Street for LUG meetings, and catch a ride home with a carpool.) Park at Kingsland Railway station and take the train from there to Britomart for $1.40. (There's a mobility elevator from street level to the platform.) -Martin From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Thu Dec 4 01:28:25 2008 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Thu Dec 4 01:28:30 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: Proposed Install Fest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Tobias Gerschner wrote: > Also if there's no full-time replacement for a AUCKLUG venue I'll try to > make the board room in our office available for these if there is an > agenda for the LUG meeting beyond 'drinks and nibbles' ;) . Sorry I didn't include this as an option in my previous post; I'm still open to suggestions on good venues. (It's only 3 minutes' walk from V.nue, so it's not a good candidate for alternating for the sake of moving the meeting nearer the people -- but conversely being so close it's worth having both for "fail-over capability".) -Martin From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Thu Dec 4 01:34:52 2008 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Thu Dec 4 01:34:59 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Workshop/Installfest In-Reply-To: <27735.119.15.0.26.1228277322.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> References: <20839.82305.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <27735.119.15.0.26.1228277322.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Mark Foster wrote: > The monthly meetings can be anything from a presentation, a workshop, a > supper, or any + all of these things. WharfIT's meets provide another > useful avenue. Don't overcommitt and under deliver; keep your expectations > realistic. At V.nue we can split the monthly meeting into several rooms if people would like to combine an mini install-fest with a talk/presentation with a Q&A panel with chat-n-nibbles... -Martin From martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz Thu Dec 4 01:53:03 2008 From: martin at kurahaupo.gen.nz (Martin D Kealey) Date: Thu Dec 4 01:53:10 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <437377.43070.qm@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > But it definitely seems that there a workshop/install-fest on the cards. > We're looking for: > * Date Check. > * Sponsors (venue, power, parking, pizza, beers, intertubes connection, old expendable stock, etc) Check, check, check, BYO, BYO, check, maybe-mumble .... Oh, and another transport option for V.nue: the Auckland Fish Market runs a shuttle bus from Britomart to Halsey St at quarter-to-the-hour until 17:45; give the nice driver a dollar to drop you right outside (he's supposed to take you to the fish market for free...) > * Content; there are a couple of ideas floating about: > ** Media Wiki Can do > ** VM's (Qemu, Xen, KVM, VirtualBox, etc) Can do -Martin From akean at clear.net.nz Wed Dec 3 18:23:59 2008 From: akean at clear.net.nz (anita kean) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:00:31 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder ... (location) In-Reply-To: <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> Message-ID: <20081203052359.GA9285@clear.net.nz> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 05:58:37PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: > On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:07 +1300, Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ wrote: > > Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. > > > ... > personally, i'd prefer not to have meetings at v.nue . i don't drive, > and getting there from mt eden on the bus is a major pain > > the university's great though cos it's central, and wharfit's ok too > I'd like to second this. Surely accessibility for everyone should be a concern in locating meetings. Anita From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 07:35:37 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:35:49 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder ... (location) In-Reply-To: <20081203052359.GA9285@clear.net.nz> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> <20081203052359.GA9285@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:23 PM, anita kean wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 05:58:37PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: >> On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:07 +1300, Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ wrote: >> > Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. >> > >> ... >> personally, i'd prefer not to have meetings at v.nue . i don't drive, >> and getting there from mt eden on the bus is a major pain >> >> the university's great though cos it's central, and wharfit's ok too >> > I'd like to second this. > Surely accessibility for everyone should be a concern in locating meetings. > > Anita For everyone? Surely not. From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 07:41:39 2008 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:41:46 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder ... (location) In-Reply-To: References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> <20081203052359.GA9285@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <5b6001920812031041w37b18720sf5fa12b44ccc88c1@mail.gmail.com> Yes it is a important as a structured program of learning. 2008/12/4 Nevyn > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:23 PM, anita kean wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 05:58:37PM +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: > >> On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 14:07 +1300, Kealey, Martin, ihug-NZ wrote: > >> > Please consider this as an announcement of planned meetings. > >> > > >> ... > >> personally, i'd prefer not to have meetings at v.nue . i don't drive, > >> and getting there from mt eden on the bus is a major pain > >> > >> the university's great though cos it's central, and wharfit's ok too > >> > > I'd like to second this. > > Surely accessibility for everyone should be a concern in locating > meetings. > > > > Anita > > For everyone? Surely not. > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 07:47:11 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 4 07:47:18 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting reminder ... (location) In-Reply-To: <5b6001920812031041w37b18720sf5fa12b44ccc88c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <732F909E6B12D549BACC18BB5E68945F04569760@vfnz-ms1.vf-nz.internal.vodafone.com> <1228280317.6467.7.camel@inzy-laptop> <20081203052359.GA9285@clear.net.nz> <5b6001920812031041w37b18720sf5fa12b44ccc88c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Kevin Adams wrote: > Yes it is a important as a structured program of learning. What I'm meaning is that no matter what venue is picked someone is going to claim it's not accessible. Remember - Auckland - Big place. Can't please all the people all of the time. Forget about trying to please everyone. It's simply not going to work. Rather, take what we can get for the time being and if we have somewhere better further on down the line, there should be very issue in moving it. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 4 11:14:19 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 4 11:14:25 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting & events Message-ID: <615849.48145.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> As per the proposed timetable set out, I've pencilled in some of those dates on the FB page, purely for reference. Thanks for the suggestions, Nevyn I see what you mean by timing, but we can't put it out indefinately. I would rather suggets us having a few minor fase-starts & try to work the kinks out around hosting such events, so that when we are ready to do something a bit more grand, we've got a bit more experience & contacts in these matters. We're already gaining valuable info, experience & contact from what we're currently engaged in. Maybe something a bit more informal, off the radar, involving more beer I'm just concerned that by talking too much & doing too little, enthusiasm might wain. Those early dates are mere suggestions, a starting point, and if it's not suitable, please suggest alternatives. Folks have mentioned that you have plans for the next year, so it would be nice to have a event where you can attend. What is a time-frame that is better suited to you? Maybe we can work towards that. I think we have a rough idea about content, and *possibly* venue (?), so at least we heading in some sort of direction Thanks for the input Keep the ideas (& constructive critisism) coming From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 11:39:18 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 4 11:39:24 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting & event In-Reply-To: <615849.48145.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <615849.48145.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > As per the proposed timetable set out, I've pencilled in some of those dates on the FB page, purely for reference. > > Thanks for the suggestions, Nevyn > > I see what you mean by timing, but we can't put it out indefinately. I would rather suggets us having a few minor fase-starts & try to work the kinks out around hosting such events, so that when we are ready to do something a bit more grand, we've got a bit more experience & contacts in these matters. We're already gaining valuable info, experience & contact from what we're currently engaged in. > > Maybe something a bit more informal, off the radar, involving more beer > > I'm just concerned that by talking too much & doing too little, enthusiasm might wain. > Those early dates are mere suggestions, a starting point, and if it's not suitable, please suggest alternatives. > > Folks have mentioned that you have plans for the next year, so it would be nice to have a event where you can attend. > What is a time-frame that is better suited to you? Maybe we can work towards that. > > I think we have a rough idea about content, and *possibly* venue (?), so at least we heading in some sort of direction > > Thanks for the input > Keep the ideas (& constructive critisism) coming I'll be doing a full write up within the next couple of days but basically I'm going to outline the potential pitfalls that I see so that we can see how we can mitagate these. I don't see it as a "If you build it" sort of scenario. I think we really need to treat this like any sort of business project. i.e. risks, benefits, resources required (people, documentation, money, venue etc.) should be identified. Long term sustainability should also be looked at if we plan on making this a regular event. General guidelines should be looked at to avoid bickering about things like distribution. Target audience should be identified and avenues of promotion etc. etc. etc..... I can't see any significant inroads to any of these issues being sorted out by the end of this month and think that participation is going to be a key issue here which is why I want to hold off until next year. As Christmas approaches alot of us have a lot of commitments already and have very little time for this sort of thing. Word of mouth is a powerful median and if we rush this, and do a bad job of it, I can see us trying to fight off those impressions which does us absolutely no favours. Regards, Nevyn. From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 4 11:56:20 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 4 11:56:27 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting & event In-Reply-To: References: <615849.48145.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26050.119.15.0.26.1228344980.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Thu, December 4, 2008 11:39 am, Nevyn wrote: > > Word of mouth is a powerful median and if we rush this, and do a bad > job of it, I can see us trying to fight off those impressions which > does us absolutely no favours. > Concur. If the AuckLUG puts on an event, it should be one that's worth attending. That's part of why I'd rather see a monthly meeting which is actually worth some effort on the part of the attendees, than more regular casual get togethers which will dilute the effort. Events more significant than regular monthly meetings (such as installfests and such) require significant planning and preparation, with several months notice - to achieve an event worthy of the work required by both staff and attendees. I have archived discussions from the planning of several Auckland Linux Events as evidence of this. Thanks to Martin for what you've done to date. I think it's convenient for LUG participants to be able to bank on a given routine (first Monday in the month holidays excepted) and as the details are fleshed out they will be circulated. Again this has been the routine for several years and has worked well to date. Mark. From akean at clear.net.nz Thu Dec 4 12:49:34 2008 From: akean at clear.net.nz (anita kean) Date: Thu Dec 4 13:11:45 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting & event In-Reply-To: <26050.119.15.0.26.1228344980.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> References: <615849.48145.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <26050.119.15.0.26.1228344980.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Message-ID: <20081203234934.GA14981@clear.net.nz> On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 11:56:20AM +1300, Mark Foster wrote: > On Thu, December 4, 2008 11:39 am, Nevyn wrote: > > > > > Word of mouth is a powerful median and if we rush this, and do a bad > > job of it, I can see us trying to fight off those impressions which > > does us absolutely no favours. > > > > > Concur. > > If the AuckLUG puts on an event, it should be one that's worth attending. > That's part of why I'd rather see a monthly meeting which is actually > worth some effort on the part of the attendees, than more regular casual > get togethers which will dilute the effort. > Yes. I attended my first (and only) monthly meeting this year - listed in advance as a "meet and greet" - there was no other announced agenda. Someone volunteered an unannounced presentation at the beginning of the meeting and someone else followed on with another. That's all that happened. And most of us never said a word. There wasn't any meeting or greeting. The first topic (more than half the meeting) was completely outside my interest zone - it wasn't specifically linux related - and the second was something I already knew about. I wouldn't have attended if an agenda detailing these two topics had been published in advance. The agenda of the next meeting (I _am_ interested in the potential of these events) was announced in advance, and I planned to go. Then 6 hours before the meeting, the agenda was completely revised. I didn't go - more because it looked like anything else might happen instead come the actual time, than that the new topic didn't hold some interest for me. There's got to be advance notice of what happens at the meetings if you want people to attend (more than 24 hours) - given that not everything will be within everyone's scope. And a little bit of preparation is usually required to pull off something worthwhile. Ad hoc presentations should come with a forewarning. Just to follow up on Nevyn's observation that > It's been noted lately that the AuckLUG meetings tend to suffer from > experience. I.e. new users are intimidated by meetings because they > have absolutely no idea what's going on. I wasn't intimidated. I had no idea what was "going on" because of the complete change in agenda. No one else gave any appearance of knowing what was going on so how could newcomers be expected to feel otherwise? It wasn't something I'd come out in the rain for again. (Let alone find my way down the far end of the city for.) Anita From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 4 13:16:55 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 4 13:17:01 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Points to contibute Message-ID: <709734.36259.qm@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> I like your thinking, Nevyn Early Jan sounds like a plan. Do you have a day in mind, or still mulling it over? Could you propose a day & see how it floats? This is what I've gathered so far: * Disto of choice seems to be some form of Ubuntu (though Puppy, SuSE & Fedora are pretty popular too. The BSD-guys are out there....watching...biding their time...ready to pounce @ a moment's notice). Have I missed anyone here? * Venue still seems undecided, though we seem to be circling some options. The alternation of venues beween town & wharf is a compromise to avoid a split of the group; trying to acommodate as many people as reasonably possible * I can try & beg some merchandise from Canonical (was a close shave @ the SFD) * Money & sponsorship is an issue; suggestion may be to have a $5 voluntary donations to at least buy speakers/presenters something to whet their whistles * Subject that are popular & get lots of nods are: security, asterisk/voip/pbx, media box * Media & documentation: is there some wiki avaialable on any of the official channels that we can gather our thoughts & flesh it out? Milan has done some really remarkable work via OrganicDesign, which ties in with the wharf endeavours * Risks: poor attendance, lack of experts to lead the projetcs, losing sights of goals * Marketing: same problem we had with SFD. Sorry, no solution or ideas here These are some of the points as I can contribute at this stage. Will add more points as we go along. - Jaco From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 4 13:23:24 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 4 13:23:33 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Points to contibute In-Reply-To: <709734.36259.qm@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <709734.36259.qm@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <52664.119.15.0.26.1228350204.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Thu, December 4, 2008 1:16 pm, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > I like your thinking, Nevyn > > Early Jan sounds like a plan. Do you have a day in mind, or still mulling > it over? Could you propose a day & see how it floats? > With respect Jaco, Early Jan is unlikely to work for many people. Firstly there's not much realistic planning time between now and then due to Christmas, and I suggest that people are more likely to be away on holiday / interested in spending time with their families than attending a LUG event. I say again, the planning process for a decent event takes some serious time and effort. Assume 2-3 months minimum. Which puts you into the month of February. For info the NZNOG Conference is being held the last 3 days of the last week of January (http://conference.nznog.org). You may wish to ensure this is not conflicted. Mark. From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 4 13:26:18 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 4 13:26:21 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting & event In-Reply-To: <20081203234934.GA14981@clear.net.nz> References: <615849.48145.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <26050.119.15.0.26.1228344980.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> <20081203234934.GA14981@clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <53010.119.15.0.26.1228350378.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> > And most of us never said a word. There wasn't any meeting or greeting. > Fair observations Anita. Maybe i'm the only one alive on here who remembers that there used to be a 'bring a plate' aspect to LUG meetings and that on the completion of the 'formal talk' as it were, there was a supper and an opportunity to get to know your fellow LUG'rs? From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 13:58:06 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 4 13:58:12 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Meeting & event In-Reply-To: <53010.119.15.0.26.1228350378.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> References: <615849.48145.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <26050.119.15.0.26.1228344980.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> <20081203234934.GA14981@clear.net.nz> <53010.119.15.0.26.1228350378.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Mark Foster wrote: > >> And most of us never said a word. There wasn't any meeting or greeting. >> > > > Fair observations Anita. > > Maybe i'm the only one alive on here who remembers that there used to be a > 'bring a plate' aspect to LUG meetings and that on the completion of the > 'formal talk' as it were, there was a supper and an opportunity to get to > know your fellow LUG'rs? I remember all of that - in fact it wasn't all that long ago. I always found myself leaving pretty early in the piece being quite a shy person. Anita, is the meeting you're talking about without meeting or greeting the one held at the pub? I admit, there were some dominant personalities there. The hope was that with a bit of alcohol in us we might be able to overcome some of those inhibitions and have more of a socail type of meeting (thus the label "meet and greet"). I thought it was sucessful for what it was and I would like to do this sort of thing again, but then, it's something to look at for next year. As for agenda's - the meet and greet was organised before I had been made into an AuckLUG organiser so was not an official AuckLUG event. It was only organised because there had been no AuckLUG meetings for awhile. And of course Martin is pretty new to the role too though he's done a fantastic job of it as far as I'm concerned. The late annoucement of the meeting was at the very least better than not having a meeting at all. Expect this to improve in the future. Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 4 14:59:05 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 4 14:59:12 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] date? Message-ID: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Sounds good to me, Mark You have a date in mind? Could you also please make a note on the FB page of any upcoming events that you know of, so that we can attend or work around those? Like the one you mentioned, a "barcamp" I've heard rumours of, or anything else you might know about From blakjak at blakjak.net Thu Dec 4 16:00:15 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Thu Dec 4 16:00:29 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] date? In-Reply-To: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38425.119.15.0.26.1228359615.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Thu, December 4, 2008 2:59 pm, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > Sounds good to me, Mark > > You have a date in mind? > > Could you also please make a note on the FB page of any upcoming events > that you know of, so that we can attend or work around those? Like the one > you mentioned, a "barcamp" I've heard rumours of, or anything else you > might know about > I'm not going to note the dates of the NZNOG Conference because it does not have direct relationship with F/OSS (which is the purpose of the Facebook page.) However an awareness of goings-on in the community is a must to ensure that those with overlapping interests (such as myself) are catered for. Barcamp/Foocamp is another story entirely, though again there are overlaps. Key point is that the NOG and the 'camp's have much narrower target audiences. My suggestion to you is: Get volunteers to help you with Installfest specific planning, coordinate on another mailing list (installfest@linux.net.nz existed onceuponatime for this purpose, unsure of it's current status) and leave the LUG for general Linux discussions. For most of the LUG'rs (esp new ones), their interest will be in attending a LUG, not running it. Running it is more for the gurus or those who are suckers for punishment. ;-) Mark. From nevynh at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 22:35:25 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Thu Dec 4 22:35:30 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Plans for next year... Message-ID: Right... after all the discussion.... Okay, it has always been my intention since I became an organiser to start organising events for next year. I have spoken to Jaco about this and he seemed keen. However, I resent the position he's trying to put AuckLUG organisers in by demanding action now Now NOW and implying that it's about ego. Jaco - please actually read the posts first before demanding dates and the like. What I said was, I intend to start discussion on this mid-January. I did not say anything about holding an event in mid-January. Now that I've got that off my chest... Since we've started talking about this I can see this huge lack of focus. Not naming names but suggestions have been given and ignored except as a confirmation of support. So lets go back to the beginning and actually decide on what we want. I have been speaking to one person who would really like a beginner's type class. There are some issues in this. I find it difficult myself trying to teach the basics (such as using a gui) without feeling like I'm being condescending. I'm not sure about everyone else but I assume that a lot of people on this list would feel the same. This same someone also said something about a "drivers license" for MS Windows which I'm taking to mean a basic course. Again ... issues. Windows is inherently simple to learn as there's only a couple of ways to do things and MS have ordained what you can and can't do with the base operating system. Linux on the other hand is designed to be open to do whatever you want. Learning to "drive" Linux takes more of an identification of patterns rather than learning by route. The other idea that Jaco seems to be talking about is workshops. Great idea but I still think we need to pick our topics here. i.e. Asterisk, while it would be an interesting subject, would only interest those who are fairly experienced with Linux. I don't see too much of an issue here, but we need to identify the fact that beginners classes and a workshop for asterisk are not the same things. And finally, yet another idea, which I also like, is doing a whole night class type of set up. This probably ties into the beginners class but I thought it bears mentioning separately. As Mark said, this requires a hell of a lot of setting up so perhaps we could aim for this. Or we could do a simple installfest. I sort of see this as ultimately flawed on it's own as doing some sort of follow up seems like a necessary step to me and the follow up should probably be planned before doing the installfest so that we can advertise the follow up at the installfest. What would our ideal audience be and how would we attract them? I.e. I.T. professionals? Absolute beginners? What age bracket? etc. I can't see us answering any other questions without first answering these ones first. i.e. if we've decided what to do, what resources do we need? What are our minimum requirements for a venue? Can anyone help us with a venue which meets those requirements? etc. This is not a walk in the park. These are questions that need to be answered if we're going to do anything remotely successful and trying to rush the process isn't going to help anyone. Trying to get on the same page and actually defining what that page is is definitely a step in the right direction. Regards, Nevyn. From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Thu Dec 4 23:27:06 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Thu Dec 4 23:27:10 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] RFL free? (liberty vs beer) Message-ID: <496165.18817.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> China is now enforcing widespread adoption of Red Flag Linux to an odd 253,000,000 Chinese users. http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08%2F12%2F03%2F203324 Does this constitute a "victory" for OSS? The Chinese government is not exactly the first body that springs to mind when referring to the F in FOSS. What are the implication? Instant market for viruses & other malicious code? Do I need to start learning Mandarin in order to continue to participate in any significant manner? This will certainly not leave Linux (less the GNU) desktop users on the fringes. (strap yourselves in, boys; it's gonna be a bumpy ride!) From candle.man.nz at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 00:03:00 2008 From: candle.man.nz at gmail.com (Kevin Adams) Date: Fri Dec 5 00:03:06 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] RFL free? (liberty vs beer) In-Reply-To: <496165.18817.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <496165.18817.qm@web25405.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5b6001920812040303t455a3f75yac8161737dabec1e@mail.gmail.com> Funny that it has a structured training program learner up and technical support for a year. As you said Jaco no speaka da lingo. Kevin 2008/12/4 Jaco van der Merwe > China is now enforcing widespread adoption of Red Flag Linux to an odd > 253,000,000 Chinese users. > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08%2F12%2F03%2F203324 > > Does > this constitute a "victory" for OSS? The Chinese government is not > exactly the first body that springs to mind when referring to the F in > FOSS. > > What are the implication? Instant market for viruses & > other malicious code? Do I need to start learning Mandarin in order to > continue to participate in any significant manner? > > This will > certainly not leave Linux (less the GNU) desktop users on the fringes. > (strap yourselves in, boys; it's gonna be a bumpy ride!) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Fri Dec 5 00:35:30 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Fri Dec 5 00:35:37 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] consessions/consensus Message-ID: <290468.3083.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> hi guys, No *demands* from me, but simply asked for suggestion for a date(-period?). At the very least a ball-park region that we at least have an idea of what we're letting ourselves in for. Nothing's to be done NOW (and I doubt any reasonable person would expect that), but certainly thought had to be given to it. Mark has suggested a period on the other side of 2-3 months, & you have indicated some time from then on, which could give us enough breathing-space to do something wroth-while. This is all I asked for. (my original post what simply a question: what, when, where, how & why. now addressed) An indication of content obviously needs to correlate with the audience's skill-level; there's a lot of ground to cover here, and we don't want to marginalize or alienate anybody. This is tricky. Venue, I'd hazard a guess, is nearly a moot point this early, and is something that may be better considered closer to the time, to fit the needs. Nevyn & Mark, from what we now have here, at least we've got some sort of outline: a willingness to host & participate in events, spanning various skill-levels & interest, young & old (funnily enough: the young & old have very much the same basic needs), etc, etc We can work towards clarity on the matter; thanks for pointing that out. These are now some thoughts we can mull around, distill & try and flesh out. It's a start. (broad strokes/rough outlines) In order to bring some folks up to speed, if at least on the lexicon & concepts; do you have any suggestions? Names of any local institutions that are engaged in these sorts of activities? (night-classes where mentioned...?) We try to bridge the gap between pro's & beginners (or people taking their first hesitant steps into the scary & potentially volatile world of gLinux/FOSS) at the wharf meetings, but that does not fall strictly under the domain of pure-gLinux, so the contents my not strictly be what is pertinent to mater at hand. I think lists, by virtue of their very nature, is at times an impediment to efficient communication, as we are actually stating things along similar lines, but past each other. Or am I missing something? I think we now have enough information to shelve the matter for now & move on. Thanks for the info Lemme know the next round when you're ready to move on something; I'd be happy to help where I can. From blakjak at blakjak.net Fri Dec 5 16:14:45 2008 From: blakjak at blakjak.net (Mark Foster) Date: Fri Dec 5 16:14:52 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] consessions/consensus In-Reply-To: <290468.3083.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <290468.3083.qm@web25406.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38650.122.56.121.74.1228446885.squirrel@webmail.blakjak.net> On Fri, December 5, 2008 12:35 am, Jaco van der Merwe wrote: > hi guys, > *snip* Jaco, we appreciate your enthusiasm. Now let those who've just recently been given the reigns of the LUG, a chance to settle in. Sometime after Christmas, i'm sure there'll be some noise made about what we're going to see the LUG get up to during 2009. In the meantime lets realise that as a Linux Users Group we're here to talk technical turkey, people who have help requests should feel free to post them and we as a group should be able to contribute some answers, etc. Mark. (Currently in Auckland, and for the Weekend. Sorry, it's not a LUG window...) From kyle at iconz.co.nz Mon Dec 15 16:26:04 2008 From: kyle at iconz.co.nz (Kyle Hargraves) Date: Mon Dec 15 16:26:20 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for wireless, webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use Skype etc cheers, Kyle Hargraves From robin.paulson at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 19:02:24 2008 From: robin.paulson at gmail.com (Robin Paulson) Date: Mon Dec 15 19:02:32 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2f3aa2770812142202m3bd1fab5r52865cd0336f51df@mail.gmail.com> 2008/12/15 Kyle Hargraves : > What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel > 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for wireless, > webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use Skype etc it was more like $2000, but i've had no problems whatsoever (well, apart from a dead mobo, but that was not linux-related, and was fixed under warranty) with an asus u1f and linux 2.6.27. the chipset is intel 945 iirc - wireless worked out of the box, as does 3d video, sound, the webcam for skype, the sd reader and apparently bluetooth, although i don't use it a further bonus: there are no closed drivers as far as ubuntu reports - everything appears to be open all up, i'm very impressed with asus, and would recommend any of their lifebook range - i think a lot of them run similar hardware, so i'd take a punt and guess all will be well supported by linux From kiirani at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 23:06:27 2008 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Mon Dec 15 23:06:36 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2494ad260812150206y6ddddfa0ideeaec3910b8b337@mail.gmail.com> Hi Kyle. My best advice to you is to do the following before buying: Google the name & model of the laptop you're considering buying, with keywords like "linux" and "linux support". If you have a preferred distro, try that, but don't limit yourself by it as the methods used to support hardware on one distro should translate to another with a little effort. If you have the option to choose the hardware components, look into what the support is like for each individual component. See how many errors have come up, and any information such as comments, instructions, or ratings given on sites like TuxMobil : http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html Only choose items that (so far as you can tell) will be relatively easy to get working -- EVEN if your chosen distribution should handle them automatically. As far as favourable experiences go, I can walk you through how my laptop went, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying one the same. I had numerous problems with the hardware that weren't linux related (it would lock up before attempting to boot to a device). I also had numerous problems getting Dell to work out what was wrong with it and replace the right components... The full replacement machine is working fine and plays nicely with my OS, but you know... 2008/12/15 Kyle Hargraves : > What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel > 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for wireless, > webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use Skype etc My laptop is a $1,300 Dell Vostro 1500. I checked the hardware for linux support before buying. Additionally, I'm a former gentoo, current arch linux user, so I tend to handle kernel configurations, drivers, multimedia programs etc myself. 1) Wireless support was as "out of the box" as it gets for me. The driver for my card specifically is built into kernels 2.6.26 and above. This is something I researched BEFORE buying the machine and something you should definitely look into too. Poorly supported cards can give you hell, if they work at all. For easy connection to wireless, I've used two programs so far. The first was a thing called Network Manager and its gnome-based user interface. It worked like you'd expect a wireless applet to, but had issues with remembering passwords, so I usually had to type my key EVERY time I connected (and it would drop frequently). The problems with this were probably caused by me not having gnome installed (I'm a fluxbox user) so if you use a distribution that uses gnome, or just use gnome yourself, it would probably work fine. Second program is netcfg2, which I'm still using. This is the default for arch and offers a slightly less friendly interface to the user (you can probably find a GUI for it somewhere, though.) For netcfg2, you write the profile for each network yourself, then either manually connect to it with 'netcfg2 profile-name' or configure it to connect on startup. I am NOT entirely aware of how the connect at startup works, as the configuration on my systems appears to be arch-specific. That said, netcfg2 has been extremely good to me, and if you're happy to play with config files and command line, I'd recommend it. 2) Webcam support had no issue, actually it works very well. The webcam in this particular machine uses the linux uvc driver, and once the necessary kernel modules are installed, it "just works" : http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/ Additionally I've found webcams which use gspca (formerly spca5xx?) work reasonably well too, although my usb quickcam isn't particularly good in itself. http://mxhaard.free.fr/spca5xx.html I've had a fair amount of trouble finding decent capture programs. My preferred ones work with my gspca cam but not my luvc cam - that's just how they play with the drivers. luvcview sn't particularly easy to use. While a minor issue, this problem can get very annoying if I want to use it for anything other than streaming. (Note: I have heard that mplayer and vlc will capture from a webcam, but I couldn't personally get it to work when I first bought one about two years ago, and I haven't tried since.) 3) I've not tried to watch dvds on my laptop under linux.. Actually I haven't tried watching dvds on my laptop at all. That said, I've never had a problem playing any sort of media provided I have support for it. Generally if you have a few popular players installed you should be covered for anything you want to play, including CD and DVD. Last time I used either, VLC had perfect support for them. http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ 4) I've never used bluetooth with my laptop, so I can't comment. 5) Skype is finicky. Earlier versions I had trouble with it being able to access sound at all, but I believe that was an OSS emulation problem and skype for linux has since switched to alsa. I've had problems with skype's webcam support miraculously dying on both linux and windows, so I wouldn't blame this on it interacting with linux. Without webcam support it's always been rather stable, if you consider that it's an unstable piece of crap to begin with. The only other chat programs I know for linux that do video and won't get you funny looks from non-linux users are kopete and amsn in their capacity as 3rd party clients for popular messenger protocols. amsn has fairly stable support for msn video, although it's always refused to cooperate with certain people, never really worked out why. Kopete should support them for both msn and yahoo, not sure about aim, but I've always found the msn support through it to be fairly unstable (again, fine for some contacts, not for others). I don't know of other voice-capable programs available for linux that are used by the general public. 6) Okay there is no 6, but I'm going to add a few more things. I've heard bad things about ATI graphics card support, but never had to set one up myself. I had my laptop build with a dedicated nvidia card (geforce 8400 M) as I've never had trouble getting nvidia drivers to work - once they're set up, they "just work". A minor caveat to this is debian and possibly other debian-based systems. Debian isn't especially fond of packaging proprietary drivers and I had difficulty understanding the instructions for installing the driver with the package manager. Most of this was due to the fact that I was building my own vanilla kernel. No issue with installing the drivers "manually", nor did I have any issues on gentoo or on arch (the latter with a custom package for the driver as per the wiki). I've personally had bad experiences with on board cards, (intel) but I don't know about other brands or more recent cards. Provided you don't want to do anything graphically intensive on your laptop, this shouldn't matter. As usual, make sure a driver exists before buying. Hibernation support as I tried to set it up roughly a year ago was crap, but I haven't attempted to since. There are issues with the program I was using (tuxonice) and nvidia drivers, so it wouldn't suspend/restore with X running, making the whole process largely useless. I've heard that there are more and better options available now, but I haven't looked into it. From daniel at rimspace.net Tue Dec 16 13:26:07 2008 From: daniel at rimspace.net (Daniel Pittman) Date: Tue Dec 16 13:26:25 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: <2494ad260812150206y6ddddfa0ideeaec3910b8b337@mail.gmail.com> (Kennedy Skelton's message of "Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:06:27 +1300") References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260812150206y6ddddfa0ideeaec3910b8b337@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87prjtoti8.fsf@rimspace.net> "Kennedy Skelton" writes: > "Kyle Hargraves" writes: > >> What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel >> 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for >> wireless, webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use >> Skype etc Personally, I have had trivial success with everything on that list except the webcam and Skype parts -- though I know that audio in works on the laptops I have set up. This is because I carefully chose IBM laptops that I knew to be compatible with Linux; let me echo this advice: [...] > Google the name & model of the laptop you're considering buying, with > keywords like "linux" and "linux support". If you have a preferred > distro, try that, but don't limit yourself by it as the methods used > to support hardware on one distro should translate to another with a > little effort. > > If you have the option to choose the hardware components, look into > what the support is like for each individual component. See how many > errors have come up, and any information such as comments, > instructions, or ratings given on sites like TuxMobil : > http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html I strongly advise using the tuxmobil.org resources, and any others that you find, to verify what hardware does and doesn't work for others. (I also recommend that you treat a complicated solution to a problem, such as "patch the kernel" as more or less equal to "not well supported" unless you are already comfortable with kernel development, etc.) [...] > 6) Okay there is no 6, but I'm going to add a few more things. > > I've heard bad things about ATI graphics card support, but never had > to set one up myself. ATI are a mixed bag: their binary driver is less good than the NVIDIA binary driver, so *today* they are a bit more of a pain ? though they do basically work. However, *tomorrow* is a different kettle of fish: ATI have released the specifications for their cards, including 3D hardware, which means that there will be genuine open source drivers for the hardware. So, if you can live with lower performance for six months to a year, and you still expect to be using the same laptop after that period, ATI is probably a better choice in the long run. (NVIDIA are still terribly closed, and while there is reverse engineering effort going into building an open driver that is still a very long way off, especially on their high end or mobile chips.) (Actually, just to complicate things: the new kernel mode setting code in Fedora 10 has much better support for ATI than NVIDIA or Intel, too, because *parts* of the ATI chips are already better supported in the open than the NVIDIA stuff. Yay, complexity!) Really, though, you want an Intel video chipset. They have fully open drivers, supported by Intel with actual staff on the ground as well as documentation, and are *vastly* more likely to work today, tomorrow and the day after. They are not so hot if you want to play shiny 3D FPS games but, if at all possible, get one of them. (Seriously, you will regret it a lot less than the other two, because it is more or less trouble free.) > I had my laptop build with a dedicated nvidia card (geforce 8400 M) as > I've never had trouble getting nvidia drivers to work I have an NVIDIA chipset in my laptop, too, to my annoyance; they wouldn't sell the LCD panel I wanted without NVIDIA attached. Again, the binary driver does work, but I wouldn't claim trouble-free myself: it caused suspend/resume to fail until a couple of weeks ago, and I *still* can't hibernate the machine, because the NVIDIA driver doesn't come back cleanly. [...] > Hibernation support as I tried to set it up roughly a year ago was > crap, but I haven't attempted to since. If have have supportable hardware (eg: Intel video) it should be robust and reliable today, with a current distribution. Ditto, suspend to ram. Regards, Daniel From kiirani at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 14:29:24 2008 From: kiirani at gmail.com (Kennedy Skelton) Date: Tue Dec 16 14:29:29 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: <87prjtoti8.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <2494ad260812150206y6ddddfa0ideeaec3910b8b337@mail.gmail.com> <87prjtoti8.fsf@rimspace.net> Message-ID: <2494ad260812151729j38a6960apaf201a6cd531538@mail.gmail.com> 2008/12/16 Daniel Pittman : > Really, though, you want an Intel video chipset. They have fully open > drivers, supported by Intel with actual staff on the ground as well as > documentation, and are *vastly* more likely to work today, tomorrow and > the day after. > > They are not so hot if you want to play shiny 3D FPS games but, if at > all possible, get one of them. (Seriously, you will regret it a lot > less than the other two, because it is more or less trouble free.) A very good point. The reason I favour nvidia is I personally want two things to work well, and work well NOW: - Shiny 3d games - Compositing (just for fun) My experience with intel chipsets was with the 4 year old onboard one on this computer. I could only ever get hardware acceleration to work sometimes maybe with either the builtin kernel module OR another one, depending on the kernel version (this problem did improve after 2.6.15 or so), however, even after that stabilised, this particular chip likes to crash under any amount of strain and take my display with it. Never quite tracked down the source of that problem, but it's definitely the source of my personal hate for the brand. Having your graphics card die while playing a game like Age of Mythology in wine is just pathetic. In contrast, my experience with the nvidia card in at the moment was much more pleasant: - Install the drivers - Configure X to use the drivers And that was it. Everything worked. Also handled compositing really well. All of that said, I imagine the newer intel chipsets with newer drivers would be significantly less temperamental. Everything improves with time :P From freakalad at yahoo.co.uk Wed Dec 17 10:51:25 2008 From: freakalad at yahoo.co.uk (Jaco van der Merwe) Date: Wed Dec 17 10:51:52 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 12 Message-ID: <118282.83878.qm@web25401.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> I find Ubuntu to have pretty good HW support all-round; especially Intrepid. My Asus 701 has absolutely 0 hardware driver issues under eeeBuntu UME/remix, though the battery indicator is not always entirely accurate. I also have a MacBook Pro SantaRosa (Ibex as my only OS); bit of a headache. Ibex solved most of the issues I had with it (HEAPS better that Hardy), though there are still issues with IR, advanced Power Management, SMS, KeyBoard Backlight, etc, etc (the bells & whistles)... but I have basic laptop functions, so it's all good I'd advise sticking to the big names, as these'll have pretty decent support: Toshiba (heard this has best support), HP, Dell, Asus & Acer (Heard some pretty encouraging stuff about these guys too) - J ----- Original Message ---- From: "aucklug-request@linux.net.nz" To: aucklug@linux.net.nz Sent: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 12:03:42 Subject: AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 12 Send AuckLUG mailing list submissions to aucklug@linux.net.nz To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aucklug-request@linux.net.nz You can reach the person managing the list at aucklug-owner@linux.net.nz When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of AuckLUG digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? (Kyle Hargraves) 2. Re: Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? (Robin Paulson) 3. Re: Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? (Kennedy Skelton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:26:04 +1300 From: Kyle Hargraves Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? To: Auckland Linux User Group mailing list Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for wireless, webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use Skype etc cheers, Kyle Hargraves ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:02:24 +1300 From: "Robin Paulson" Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Message-ID: <2f3aa2770812142202m3bd1fab5r52865cd0336f51df@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2008/12/15 Kyle Hargraves : > What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel > 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for wireless, > webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use Skype etc it was more like $2000, but i've had no problems whatsoever (well, apart from a dead mobo, but that was not linux-related, and was fixed under warranty) with an asus u1f and linux 2.6.27. the chipset is intel 945 iirc - wireless worked out of the box, as does 3d video, sound, the webcam for skype, the sd reader and apparently bluetooth, although i don't use it a further bonus: there are no closed drivers as far as ubuntu reports - everything appears to be open all up, i'm very impressed with asus, and would recommend any of their lifebook range - i think a lot of them run similar hardware, so i'd take a punt and guess all will be well supported by linux ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:06:27 +1300 From: "Kennedy Skelton" Subject: Re: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? To: "Auckland Linux User Group mailing list" Message-ID: <2494ad260812150206y6ddddfa0ideeaec3910b8b337@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Kyle. My best advice to you is to do the following before buying: Google the name & model of the laptop you're considering buying, with keywords like "linux" and "linux support". If you have a preferred distro, try that, but don't limit yourself by it as the methods used to support hardware on one distro should translate to another with a little effort. If you have the option to choose the hardware components, look into what the support is like for each individual component. See how many errors have come up, and any information such as comments, instructions, or ratings given on sites like TuxMobil : http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html Only choose items that (so far as you can tell) will be relatively easy to get working -- EVEN if your chosen distribution should handle them automatically. As far as favourable experiences go, I can walk you through how my laptop went, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying one the same. I had numerous problems with the hardware that weren't linux related (it would lock up before attempting to boot to a device). I also had numerous problems getting Dell to work out what was wrong with it and replace the right components... The full replacement machine is working fine and plays nicely with my OS, but you know... 2008/12/15 Kyle Hargraves : > What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel > 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for wireless, > webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use Skype etc My laptop is a $1,300 Dell Vostro 1500. I checked the hardware for linux support before buying. Additionally, I'm a former gentoo, current arch linux user, so I tend to handle kernel configurations, drivers, multimedia programs etc myself. 1) Wireless support was as "out of the box" as it gets for me. The driver for my card specifically is built into kernels 2.6.26 and above. This is something I researched BEFORE buying the machine and something you should definitely look into too. Poorly supported cards can give you hell, if they work at all. For easy connection to wireless, I've used two programs so far. The first was a thing called Network Manager and its gnome-based user interface. It worked like you'd expect a wireless applet to, but had issues with remembering passwords, so I usually had to type my key EVERY time I connected (and it would drop frequently). The problems with this were probably caused by me not having gnome installed (I'm a fluxbox user) so if you use a distribution that uses gnome, or just use gnome yourself, it would probably work fine. Second program is netcfg2, which I'm still using. This is the default for arch and offers a slightly less friendly interface to the user (you can probably find a GUI for it somewhere, though.) For netcfg2, you write the profile for each network yourself, then either manually connect to it with 'netcfg2 profile-name' or configure it to connect on startup. I am NOT entirely aware of how the connect at startup works, as the configuration on my systems appears to be arch-specific. That said, netcfg2 has been extremely good to me, and if you're happy to play with config files and command line, I'd recommend it. 2) Webcam support had no issue, actually it works very well. The webcam in this particular machine uses the linux uvc driver, and once the necessary kernel modules are installed, it "just works" : http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/ Additionally I've found webcams which use gspca (formerly spca5xx?) work reasonably well too, although my usb quickcam isn't particularly good in itself. http://mxhaard.free.fr/spca5xx.html I've had a fair amount of trouble finding decent capture programs. My preferred ones work with my gspca cam but not my luvc cam - that's just how they play with the drivers. luvcview sn't particularly easy to use. While a minor issue, this problem can get very annoying if I want to use it for anything other than streaming. (Note: I have heard that mplayer and vlc will capture from a webcam, but I couldn't personally get it to work when I first bought one about two years ago, and I haven't tried since.) 3) I've not tried to watch dvds on my laptop under linux.. Actually I haven't tried watching dvds on my laptop at all. That said, I've never had a problem playing any sort of media provided I have support for it. Generally if you have a few popular players installed you should be covered for anything you want to play, including CD and DVD. Last time I used either, VLC had perfect support for them. http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ 4) I've never used bluetooth with my laptop, so I can't comment. 5) Skype is finicky. Earlier versions I had trouble with it being able to access sound at all, but I believe that was an OSS emulation problem and skype for linux has since switched to alsa. I've had problems with skype's webcam support miraculously dying on both linux and windows, so I wouldn't blame this on it interacting with linux. Without webcam support it's always been rather stable, if you consider that it's an unstable piece of crap to begin with. The only other chat programs I know for linux that do video and won't get you funny looks from non-linux users are kopete and amsn in their capacity as 3rd party clients for popular messenger protocols. amsn has fairly stable support for msn video, although it's always refused to cooperate with certain people, never really worked out why. Kopete should support them for both msn and yahoo, not sure about aim, but I've always found the msn support through it to be fairly unstable (again, fine for some contacts, not for others). I don't know of other voice-capable programs available for linux that are used by the general public. 6) Okay there is no 6, but I'm going to add a few more things. I've heard bad things about ATI graphics card support, but never had to set one up myself. I had my laptop build with a dedicated nvidia card (geforce 8400 M) as I've never had trouble getting nvidia drivers to work - once they're set up, they "just work". A minor caveat to this is debian and possibly other debian-based systems. Debian isn't especially fond of packaging proprietary drivers and I had difficulty understanding the instructions for installing the driver with the package manager. Most of this was due to the fact that I was building my own vanilla kernel. No issue with installing the drivers "manually", nor did I have any issues on gentoo or on arch (the latter with a custom package for the driver as per the wiki). I've personally had bad experiences with on board cards, (intel) but I don't know about other brands or more recent cards. Provided you don't want to do anything graphically intensive on your laptop, this shouldn't matter. As usual, make sure a driver exists before buying. Hibernation support as I tried to set it up roughly a year ago was crap, but I haven't attempted to since. There are issues with the program I was using (tuxonice) and nvidia drivers, so it wouldn't suspend/restore with X running, making the whole process largely useless. I've heard that there are more and better options available now, but I haven't looked into it. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ AuckLUG mailing list AuckLUG@linux.net.nz http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug End of AuckLUG Digest, Vol 43, Issue 12 *************************************** From lilypatch at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 12:01:00 2008 From: lilypatch at gmail.com (David Bowen) Date: Tue Dec 23 12:02:13 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49501C2C.9070005@gmail.com> Kyle Hargraves wrote: > Hi, > > What favourable experience have users had in placing Linux (say kernel > 2.6.27.x) onto a (for example $1,500 or therabouts) notebook for > wireless, webcam features, watching DVDs - sound etc, bluetooth, use > Skype etc > > cheers, Kyle Hargraves > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > I bought a Compaq CQ45 last week in Pantip plaza, Bangkok. Everything seemed to work on install except the sound. It is in the forums about adding a line to > /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base The webcam works, I haven't checked the microphone yet, We just had the Internet connection put in last night. I haven't tried th card reader either as it doesn't seem to support compact flash cards, will look into that later. But the battery charging, back light adjustment, volume control all seem to work OK. I guess there will be a similar model available back in NZ. The cost was 22,300 baht, or about $1150 NZ Cheers David From ken at lomax.gen.nz Tue Dec 23 12:49:32 2008 From: ken at lomax.gen.nz (Ken Lomax) Date: Tue Dec 23 12:49:39 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: <49501C2C.9070005@gmail.com> References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <49501C2C.9070005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2717.219.89.227.19.1229989772.squirrel@mail.orcon.net.nz> Hi All Has anyone had experience on putting Linux on a Toshiba L300 notebook? I would be putting Fedora 9 or 10, or else Ubuntu on it. Regards Ken From nevynh at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 13:04:46 2008 From: nevynh at gmail.com (Nevyn) Date: Tue Dec 23 13:05:21 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: <2717.219.89.227.19.1229989772.squirrel@mail.orcon.net.nz> References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <49501C2C.9070005@gmail.com> <2717.219.89.227.19.1229989772.squirrel@mail.orcon.net.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Ken Lomax wrote: > Hi All > > Has anyone had experience on putting Linux on a Toshiba L300 notebook? > > I would be putting Fedora 9 or 10, or else Ubuntu on it. > > Regards > Ken a very quick google brings up this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=872807 In which the person involved is having problems getting his wireless network card working. Other search results indicate that this isn't an isolated issue. From john at og.co.nz Tue Dec 23 15:44:53 2008 From: john at og.co.nz (john) Date: Tue Dec 23 15:48:04 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Linux on $1,500 notebooks ? In-Reply-To: <2717.219.89.227.19.1229989772.squirrel@mail.orcon.net.nz> References: <277462.56960.qm@web25403.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <49501C2C.9070005@gmail.com> <2717.219.89.227.19.1229989772.squirrel@mail.orcon.net.nz> Message-ID: <495050A5.1060402@og.co.nz> Ken Lomax wrote: > Hi All > > Has anyone had experience on putting Linux on a Toshiba L300 notebook? > > I would be putting Fedora 9 or 10, or else Ubuntu on it. > Yes. I bought one from PB Technologies, and installed OpenSUSE 11 on it. The only problem I encountered was that the Internet Chipset didn't work out of the box. I had to download and install a supplied driver from Toshiba - r8101. Be aware that Toshiba cashbacks offered by retailers take 3 months to arrive. Everything else works (camera, sound, etc). John O'Gorman > Regards > Ken > > > > _______________________________________________ > AuckLUG mailing list > AuckLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aucklug > > > From daniel.jrm at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 21:27:44 2008 From: daniel.jrm at gmail.com (Daniel) Date: Wed Dec 31 21:27:56 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Join me on Bebo Message-ID: You will like it. Click to find out why http://www.bebo.com/in/8383987006a26672784b135 ...................................................................... This email was sent to you at the direct request of Daniel . You have not been added to a mailing list. If you would prefer not to receive invitations from ANY Bebo members please click here - http://www.bebo.com/unsub/8383987006a26672784 Bebo, Inc., 795 Folsom St, 6th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94107, USA. From daniel.jrm at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 21:36:30 2008 From: daniel.jrm at gmail.com (Daniel Mason) Date: Wed Dec 31 21:36:35 2008 Subject: [AuckLUG] Re: [nzlug] Join me on Bebo In-Reply-To: <495b2d21.8753f10a.57ed.ffff888eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <495b2d21.8753f10a.57ed.ffff888eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm really sorry about the email about bebo, It sent an email out to my whole address book. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Daniel wrote: > > You will like it. > > Click to find out why > > http://www.bebo.com/in/4813674172a44626500b135 > > ...................................................................... > > > This email was sent to you at the direct request of Daniel < > daniel.jrm@gmail.com>. You have not been added to a mailing list. > > If you would prefer not to receive invitations from ANY Bebo members please > click here - http://www.bebo.com/unsub/4813674172a44626500 > > Bebo, Inc., 795 Folsom St, 6th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94107, USA. > > > > _______________________________________________ > NZLUG mailing list NZLUG@linux.net.nz > http://www.linux.net.nz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nzlug > -- Daniel Mason